Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[SailorSat]

By "Blended Out" does that mean doesn't accept some?  Does soft15khz suppport most of the mame resolutions on desktop graphics cards?

Yup. Theoretically it would support nearly every resolution, however it's not really usefull, as 99% of all games can be narrowed down to about 30 resolutions.

[Sosetsuken]

Would you possibly have a list of what resolutions i need to set, i've made my cps1.ini/cps2.ini/cps3.ini/neodrvr.ini but i just tried to play pacman and it was a no go :/

[SailorSat]

How about letting MAME select the resolutions?
Just set "switchres" to 1 in MAME.ini

[Sosetsuken]

Yeah see thats the problem SailorSat, when i do that the screen goes all garbled.  I have to set the resolutions to the nearest via quickres :/

[Ummon]

For some reason, Mame tends to pick 800x600 when on auto. Or maybe there's an issue with it picking a sensible resolution for a vertical game run horizontally.

[smiwin]

loaded soft15khz, i do see my voodoo 3 card listed, but all buttons are greyed out. Does this mean my card is not compatible?

[SailorSat]

This only means your DRIVER is not compatible.
Use an SFFT driver (google is your friend on that one)

[smiwin]

got soft-15khz working thanks to your sttf driver suggestion... WOW!... thank you.

Is there something i need to do to enable soft-15khz, it says installed, and i've restarted.

Next step to see if i can get mame working, never used the command line version though.

Thanks again, money on the way!

[smiwin]

nevermind i can see it is at 15khz, but i get 2 images on the arcade monitor

[Eversynth]

I am using an ATI X1650XT with the custom resolutions with 7.12 pixel clock.
I connected the PC to my TV trough a VGA/SCART RGB cable. My TV is 50hz and 60hz capable.

Now, there is one thing that bugs me to no end:
Using the nintendo WII, the SCART RGB cable, 640x480i @ 60hz, with Ikaruga, the screen does NOT flicker.
Using windows, soft15khz, at 640x480 it is so bad my eyes hurt.

Since the WII can display a 640x480 image without flickering, there must be a way to use the same resolution with soft15khz.
Any idea?

[Lukeyson]

nevermind i can see it is at 15khz, but i get 2 images on the arcade monitor

Are they half images side-by-side. That was similar to my problem - where the screen was syncing but required interlacing, but was receiving a progressive image. the 'static tearing' images I uploaded on page 33 was actually of those two images side by side!

Just to finish off my earlier posts though, here's a video of my working solution in a vehicle. While in this case i couldn't quite get Soft15kHz to do what I wanted with the Intel chipsets, it very nearly did. I have already been suggesting this utility for others without Intel chipsets who have asked and need a 15khz solution for their CarPC.





Lukeyson

[smiwin]

they are 1/2 side by side, with about a 2 inch strip down the middle seperating the two images

[Lukeyson]

Well then my opinion is that almost certainly you need to have interlaced turned on for your monitor, but your video card is not doing interlaced for you.

You might want to try a manual modeline entry in the configuration file removing the existing resolution and adding it back in on the next line with the '-interlace' text added to it.


Lukeyson

[smiwin]

reached my wits end, bought an arcadevga card. thanks for the help, with more patience I'm confident you would have solved my problem.

[Ummon]

reached my wits end, bought an arcadevga card. thanks for the help, with more patience I'm confident you would have solved my problem.

You just needed to, like, read the monitor wiki. Maybe a few times.

[northerngames]

Yeah see thats the problem SailorSat, when i do that the screen goes all garbled.  I have to set the resolutions to the nearest via quickres :/

use the AVRES tool if your not using it already.

[Eversynth]

I have a new problem. I tried the same thing on 2 different PCs without success, so I think it's a software problem.

I have 2 TVs, and I want to connect them both to the same graphics card.
The first, connected vga->scart rgb, always works fine.
The second, connected dvi->vga adaptor->scart rgb doesn't work. It looks out of sync, and when connected to a PC monitor it doesn't says it's sending a 15Khz signal (it says so when I connect the first vga out to the monitor), and doesn't sync even on the pc monitor.

Yes, I installed soft15khz in both first and secondary output.
I tried with an Ati 9600 and an Ati x1650xt.

What else can I do?

[captainpotato]

I've just installed Soft 15KHz and am beginning to appreciate just how great it is (I'm not missing AdvanceMAME any longer, put it that way). I'm running an NEC Multisync 3D monitor (with a GeForce MX420), which can do real 15KHz screenmodes, so Soft 15KHz works brilliantly.

I do have one issue that I haven't been able to solve (or find any information about) - is there any way to make the 15KHz screenmodes use the same screen real estate (for want of a better term) as the native screenmodes? The issue is that when I change between 31KHz and 15KHz screenmodes, I have to manually adjust the monitor's left-right position setting each time (the monitor is so old that it doesn't have an OSD to save them) so that the image is fully visible. Once the screen is behind glass, this won't be an option (even if I wished to do it).

I've used the NVidia settings to shift the screen as much as possible to the left to adjust it, but it doesn't go far enough. If I stick to 15KHz screenmodes for everything, there's no issue, but Mala flickers a bit much for my liking a 640x480 (or higher) at 15KHz (just like my Amiga used to before I got the monitor many years ago...).

Any ideas?

[Eversynth]

Any ideas?

If you only use MAME, and if you only have issues with the position, you can center the screen using the MAME slider controls for each game. It's a bit long to do, but better than nothing.
But you can't resize the screen with mame, otherwise it will look very bad.

[captainpotato]

If you only use MAME, and if you only have issues with the position, you can center the screen using the MAME slider controls for each game. It's a bit long to do, but better than nothing.
But you can't resize the screen with mame, otherwise it will look very bad.

Edit: that's solved some other issues (thanks), but it doesn't help with the issue that I'm trying to solve. I think the issue that I'm having is monitor-related, as the MAME setting only shifts within the monitor's physical restrictions. What I need to do is to shift the monitor's positioning of certain screenmodes. I know that it can be done as AdvanceMAME's monitor configuration used to be able to do it.

[Ummon]

What I need to do is to shift the monitor's positioning of certain screenmodes. I know that it can be done as AdvanceMAME's monitor configuration used to be able to do it.

Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.

I have a new problem. I tried the same thing on 2 different PCs without success, so I think it's a software problem.

I have 2 TVs, and I want to connect them both to the same graphics card.
The first, connected vga->scart rgb, always works fine.
The second, connected dvi->vga adaptor->scart rgb doesn't work. It looks out of sync, and when connected to a PC monitor it doesn't says it's sending a 15Khz signal (it says so when I connect the first vga out to the monitor), and doesn't sync even on the pc monitor.

Yes, I installed soft15khz in both first and secondary output.
I tried with an Ati 9600 and an Ati x1650xt.

What else can I do?

I think the DVI port won't do native resolutions because they are an analog function. And of course it won't then sync to a PC monitor, as what it IS putting out is not only garbage, but out of range garbage.


I recommend reading the monitor wiki to both of you.

[captainpotato]

What I need to do is to shift the monitor's positioning of certain screenmodes. I know that it can be done as AdvanceMAME's monitor configuration used to be able to do it.

Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.

No, that's not it either - clearly I'm doing a crap job of explaining myself It's not artefacts or resizing, but the positioning of the viewable area of the screen. AdvanceMAME's tool (advv, from memory) to set the screen up allowed the viewable area to be shifted in a manner similar to what MAME does (as you suggested), but it allowed me to do all screenmodes to a larger degree that meant that I could have (for instance) a 224x240 @ 15KHz and an 800x600 @ 31KHz in exactly the same spot on the monitor.

The NVidia driver tools allow shifting of the 31KHz screenmode's position to a certain degree, but not far enough to avoid adjusting the horizontal positioning on the monitor without mucking up the 15KHz screenmodes (remember that my monitor can do all of the 15KHz modes natively and completely accurately).

The reason why I've been trying to get the various screenmodes all lined up is so that I could have a non-interlaced screenmode for MaLa. I've settled for a 640x480 @ 15KHz with flicker that isn't too bad because of the background image, which means that everything is positioned exactly correctly. Once I add the tinted glass over the screen, I'm imagining that the flicker will be even less of an issue.

To be honest, I think part of the issue is that the monitor is so old that it doesn't save settings (no OSD) - if it could, I wouldn't have an issue. When I was using AdvanceMAME, I was running DOS with a TNT2 M64 card, so all of these factors combined may well mean that this is why the issue never came up then.

As it is, the games look pretty much as good as they can probably get with MAME (correct refresh rates, fullscreen, scanlines from the monitor (not emulated) and no tearing), so having a slightly flickering front end is not worth losing too much sleep over

[Haggar]

Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.

I don't agree. With ADVV, I've setted thousand of resolutions with different graphic cards with no artifacts.
I've always centered, stretched (horizontally) the resolutions with no issues.

[Ummon]

Advancemame can resize the image, but not without lines missing or added, which results in various kinds of artifacting. That's the nature of things. Perhaps when you used Advancemame you didn't know what to look for to know it wasn't perfectly displayed.

I don't agree. With ADVV, I've setted thousand of resolutions with different graphic cards with no artifacts.
I've always centered, stretched (horizontally) the resolutions with no issues.

He's talking about using the in-game functions, the same kind of thing that SS's recent, and stalled, project, Immolator, attempted. I haven't played with them in a while, but I recall the game crashing when I stretched - or maybe that was only stretching vertically. I dunno. AdvanceMame automatically stretches some games, depending on the game and your monitor's limitations and orientation, if in generate mode. And I see the artifacting in many cases. I guess some people would rather be able to play the game, even so. Not me. Whatever you're doing I'm not sure, though.

Anyways, cp, I know. I was just talking about stretching.

[dmauro]

I've currently got soft 15KHz installed on my 7800GT with the 162.65 drivers. Most of the resolutions work, but the following resolutions cause the image to tile so there is 4 of it on screen on my low res monitor and 2 of them side by side on my tri-sync monitor:
256x256
288x240
296x240
321x256
252x256
352x264
512x448

And the following two appear completely broken with a bad sync or something:
240x240
448x384

Can I modify any of these to make them work somehow, or should I simply remove them?

[Eversynth]

I have 2 TVs, and I want to connect them both to the same graphics card.
The first, connected vga->scart rgb, always works fine.
The second, connected dvi->vga adaptor->scart rgb doesn't work. It looks out of sync, and when connected to a PC monitor it doesn't says it's sending a 15Khz signal (it says so when I connect the first vga out to the monitor), and doesn't sync even on the pc monitor.

A small update:
I haven't solved the issue of having the secondary output working. I think it's a DDC/EDID problem.

So I installed a second videocard, and all works as (I) intended.

I'm now waiting for 2 radeon 9250 so I don't have to deal with the increased x1650 pixelclock.

[northerngames]

I'm now waiting for 2 radeon 9250 so I don't have to deal with the increased x1650 pixelclock.
[/quote]

I was there at one point and decided to go with the X1950 pro so I could also play up to date pc games that the lower end cards just can't do but it required a few custom modes for a work around and all is well.

but then the lower end cards can to the lower res's without any tweaking and runs soft15K stock but I could not get 75% of the newer games I had bought to run on them becuase the power was not there to run them right.

I decided on the X1950 pro becuase I would rather have it were I could play anything I throw at it all around except games that run 1024X768+ and only suffer having to run a few custom modes for the lower res's but with the custom modes they work great also and good eough for me.

 

[Twin-X]

I'm now waiting for 2 radeon 9250 so I don't have to deal with the increased x1650 pixelclock.

I was there at one point and decided to go with the X1950 pro so I could also play up to date pc games that the lower end cards just can't do but it required a few custom modes for a work around and all is well.

but then the lower end cards can to the lower res's without any tweaking and runs soft15K stock but I could not get 75% of the newer games I had bought to run on them becuase the power was not there to run them right.

I decided on the X1950 pro becuase I would rather have it were I could play anything I throw at it all around except games that run 1024X768+ and only suffer having to run a few custom modes for the lower res's but with the custom modes they work great also and good eough for me.

 
[/quote]

North do you mind sharing your txt files?
I have the same vid card. I know not the same monitor but i still would like to try. If you don't mind of course.

[dmauro]

For CPS games use 392x240 ...

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".

I am using ddraw, but mame is stretching games across to the full resolution so I get line doubling. Games that are 320x240 have one single line right in the center that is line doubled (to make it 321 pixels across), and then Progear has several lines that are doubled. Any idea how to fix this so that I just get blank black space instead of line doubling?

[northerngames]

Twin-X

let me post my custom.txt to see if it will work just put it in your soft15K folder straight up and then unintall and reinstall soft15K not off the C: drive but the gui/menu part of soft15K.

copy and save what I post as custom.txt only and place it in your soft15K folder

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync

Card is Sapphire X1950 Pro AGP 512MB DDR3 on a nanao Ms8-26SU with ultimarc video amp.

also use the http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip tool so it sets up all the res's correctly for you automaticly.

[dmauro]

I've currently got soft 15KHz installed on my 7800GT with the 162.65 drivers. Most of the resolutions work, but the following resolutions cause the image to tile so there is 4 of it on screen on my low res monitor and 2 of them side by side on my tri-sync monitor:
256x256
288x240
296x240
321x256
252x256
352x264
512x448

And the following two appear completely broken with a bad sync or something:
240x240
448x384

Can I modify any of these to make them work somehow, or should I simply remove them?

I found this much earlier in this thread:

Hey sailor
Take a look at the last video card in that thread. the geforce 7300. He has the doubling of same refresh and uses a custom file to remove and re add.
 Seems like my 7850GT is doubling certain resolutions. Take a look at my post about certain resolutions double. Could that be ena fix for my issue. The thing is I dont have card anymore. If this is the fix you may want to add it to the FAQ

http://community.arcadeinfo.de/showthread.php?t=7925&page=3

remove 288x240
remove 296x240
remove 256x256
remove 240x240
remove 321x256
remove 352x256
remove 352x264
modeline '288x240@59,305' 6,2 288 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59,305' 6,2 296 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264@59,697' 7,47 352 352 405 458 264 265 268 279 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x256@59,014' 6,45 321 336 368 414 256 258 261 280 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256@60,436' 5,3 256 272 296 352 256 260 263 277 -hsync -vsync
modeline '240x240@60,436' 5,3 240 240 280 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync

Update I just got a hold of a Nividia 7950GT and guess what. After adding that information from [above] and putting it into a custom15khz.txt It works like a charm. No more line doubling.

Sailor you need to add this to your FAQ for nivida 7 series cards.

I'm going to give this a go, but since I'm using a 7800GT I'm confident this will be the fix I was looking for. (this doesn't have fixes for the 25KHz resolutions that are line doubling, however)

[Twin-X]

Thanks a million North!!

I will give it a go. Currently i am installing my machine with x64.
I have exactly the same card my monitor is a multisync nec pg4

I choose this card like you newer games: bionic command rearmed is a blast. can't wait for the new street fighter!

Regards,
Jeffry

[Eversynth]

I was there at one point and decided to go with the X1950 pro so I could also play up to date pc games that the lower end cards just can't do but it required a few custom modes for a work around and all is well.

but then the lower end cards can to the lower res's without any tweaking and runs soft15K stock but I could not get 75% of the newer games I had bought to run on them becuase the power was not there to run them right.

I decided on the X1950 pro becuase I would rather have it were I could play anything I throw at it all around except games that run 1024X768+ and only suffer having to run a few custom modes for the lower res's but with the custom modes they work great also and good eough for me.

You're right re  running pc games who requires more power.
My situation is a little different though:
for serious pc gaming I have a specific pc gaming setup in the same room as my arcade pc, so there's little point for me to run games that can do better than 640x480 on my "arcade pc".
I think the other games (older or indie) with a lower resolution can be handled by the 9250.

And let's not forget the irritating flickering of interlaced resolutions.
If the needs arise I can always install the 1650xt or the 1950pro in the PCIE slot and try to find a way to make it work.


So... I have installed and tested the 2 radeon 9250 setup, and all works as intended. At 288x240 (for 288x224 pacman games) they even removed a distorted image I was having when using the same resolution with the 9600pro.
I don't know if it was soft15khz related or it's a video card fault, but fortunately it's gone.
The biggest advantage is that now the lower resolution games don't have a wrong aspect ratio.

[dmauro]

For CPS games use 392x240 ...

MAME ignores the few extra pixels if you use "video ddraw".

I am using ddraw, but mame is stretching games across to the full resolution so I get line doubling. Games that are 320x240 have one single line right in the center that is line doubled (to make it 321 pixels across), and then Progear has several lines that are doubled. Any idea how to fix this so that I just get blank black space instead of line doubling?

I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

[Ummon]

I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

That's an interesting one.

[SailorSat]

Woohoo... Some days not lookin at the forum and this thread grew another page xD

A little off-topic -> <- The EDID-Dongle is pretty much completed and will be available soon.
Guess I'll put a 9600 GT or something like that in the cab soon (though my Radeons do a good job at every resolution a 15kHz Monitor would do).

I think the DVI port won't do native resolutions because they are an analog function. And of course it won't then sync to a PC monitor, as what it IS putting out is not only garbage, but out of range garbage.

Actually it does, IF you have a Multisync LCD with DVI it will work with lowres modes.
I've used a Radeon 9600 dualheaded for OutRunners. However I don't remember doing anything fancy with the drivers. Should work out of the box.



p.s. IE 8 pretty much sucks ~-~ that damn scrollbar keeps snippin to the top...

[isucamper]

I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

For the record, I believe SailorSat's very own CabMame hacks the unevenstretch option back into recent versions of MAME.

PS:  That is the biggest dongle I have ever seen. 

[dmauro]

I found the solution. There is a deprecated mame ini option unevenstretch which you can set to 0 for integer only scaling. You must use ddraw for this to work, and when verifying roms you will get a warning that the option is unkown, but it absolutely works.

For the record, I believe SailorSat's very own CabMame hacks the unevenstretch option back into recent versions of MAME.

PS:  That is the biggest dongle I have ever seen. 

I think his hack is for the cleanstretch option, which definitely does not work in mame anymore without hacking it in. As far as I know though, cleanstretch and nounevenstretch are the same thing. :?

[Twin-X]

Woohoo... Some days not lookin at the forum and this thread grew another page xD

A little off-topic -> <- The EDID-Dongle is pretty much completed and will be available soon.
Guess I'll put a 9600 GT or something like that in the cab soon (though my Radeons do a good job at every resolution a 15kHz Monitor would do).

Nice. When can we expect those and do i have to reserve one?

[Ummon]

And what are they for, again?