Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[sham69]

cheers for the reply
Shinobi doesn't bother me that much but donkey kong is unplayable as the bottom
Of the screen is cropped
I thought the only thing I had to do was add custom resolutions using the custom15khz.txt method
I tried this but think I did it wrong
I just need anexample of how I would add these 3 resolutions
Cheers

[SailorSat]

You can't play vertical games on a horizontal TV without accessing the service menu and disable the "overscan".

[sham69]

thanks sailorsat
I will give that a go
Sorry to be a pest

[SailorSat]

Just try to get the service codes, then you can adjust the size.

[sham69]

Got them and its done.
Looks great, all games are perfect.
Thanks once again I would be lost without this site and you especially Sailorsat.
Thanks.

[Chase]

Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.

[Ummon]

Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.

The general idea is to use the highest resolution you can for all vector games. While one can have them displayed at 15khz, it's not recommended, and you aren't so hindered with your monitor. At the very least, use 640x480. Also, you might want to turn up the brightness for that game in Mame. Remember, it's a raster monitor displaying a vector monitor game. It's not gonna look anything like the original.

[Chase]

Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.

The general idea is to use the highest resolution you can for all vector games. While one can have them displayed at 15khz, it's not recommended, and you aren't so hindered with your monitor. At the very least, use 640x480. Also, you might want to turn up the brightness for that game in Mame. Remember, it's a raster monitor displaying a vector monitor game. It's not gonna look anything like the original.

Thanks Ummon, I will try that.

Also, I have using Command Based MAME with Maxiums Arcade FE.   How would I increase the brightness in the INI for that particular game?

[Haggar]

I have a sad problem.

I'm using a lightgun on the cab with the guncon2pc driver.

All works well, but when I use one of these resolutions, the lightgun completely stops to work. It's like if I disconnect it (when I press fire I can't also see the flash):

o 512 x 448 @ 60Hz Interlace
o 512 x 512 @ 60Hz Interlace
o 640 x 480 @ 60Hz Interlace  ---> BIG PROBLEM

I've tryed several configurations, but the prob is the same:
-AthlonXP with Ati ArcadeVGA
-Athlon64 with Ati ArcadeVGA
-Intel dual core with Ati X800XL, Catalyst 6.5 and Soft-15KHz.

These are the only configurations that works:
-AthlonXP with Nvidia Geforce FX 5200 and Soft-15KHz
-Athlon64 with Nvidia Geforce FX 5200 and Soft-15KHz
-**I guess** Intel dual core with a nvidia card and Soft-15KHz (**i have no nvidia pci-ex...**)

So, the prob are the Ati drivers? 
What can I try?

[Haggar]

Phew.. I've solved.

Here what i've done (maybe useful to someone else):
I've edited the 640x480 modeline (the 480 now is the same as 720x480) and now it works!
With arcadeVGA there is no way. Soft-15KHz is great.

[Ummon]

Hey Everyone,
What do you use as settings for Asteroids?

It looks kinda dark on my monitor.

The general idea is to use the highest resolution you can for all vector games. While one can have them displayed at 15khz, it's not recommended, and you aren't so hindered with your monitor. At the very least, use 640x480. Also, you might want to turn up the brightness for that game in Mame. Remember, it's a raster monitor displaying a vector monitor game. It's not gonna look anything like the original.

Thanks Ummon, I will try that.

Also, I have using Command Based MAME with Maxiums Arcade FE.   How would I increase the brightness in the INI for that particular game?

You have three options:

- if using builds perhaps after .120: access it in-game via the tilde key on builds befor .127 or 8 - or via the tab menu>slider controls on those later builds - and play with the values. The features are automatically saved.

- look in the mame ini and see what the syntax is and copy it to the game's ini and modify the value.

- put a copy of Mame32/UI in the folder, start, and adjust in gui for game desired. Values will be same for most build of mame, and generally any version unless of different video era - ie: video re-write vs before it.

[FrizzleFried]

I am getting a "quad screen" at 352x246 and 352x264.  I am using a GeForce 7200GS I do believe it is.  Can anyone point me in the direction as to what to do to get these modes to work?  World Class Bowling,  Golden Tee and others use this mode and 352x240 cuts a portion of the score off, etc... help!

[northerngames]

hey FF try golden tee at 384X240 and WCB at 284X255 and let me know what you think 

[FrizzleFried]

hey FF try golden tee at 384X240 and WCB at 284X255 and let me know what you think 

284x255?  I am still not exactly sure how to come up with my own custom resolutions.


BTW: Did you mean 384x255?

[northerngames]

yeah sorry about that I meant 384X240 60hrz

also are you using the same setting as you would as if it were the arcadevga card?

if not try using the same mame.ini settings to the T and also use the AVRES TOOL.

I dont think what I posted is a custom res but could be wrong.

[FrizzleFried]

My problem isn't width,  it's height.  240 lines vertically isn't enough and the score gets cropped.  256 worked with the AVGA when I used to run it in this rig,  but I can't get that resolution (vertically) to work with Soft15khz and my Nvidia video card.

[northerngames]

Hmm I use a ati X1950 pro so that nvidia may be the problem but I get a full screen and correct display on mine with those setting.

let me post my custom.txt to see if it will work just put it in your soft15K folder straight up and then unintall and reinstall soft15K not off the C: drive but the gui/menu part of soft15K.

copy and save what I post as custom.txt only

;Remove some "too low" resolutions
remove 240x240
remove 256x240
remove 256x256
remove 256x264
remove 321x256

;ReAdd some "low" resolutions with higher pclock and (way) larger sync width
modeline '288x240@59.885' 7.12 288 332 392 448 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240@59.941' 7.12 296 338 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240@59.305' 7.12 304 344 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240@59.014' 7.12 321 350 392 448 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240@59.749' 7.12 336 356 392 448 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync

[FrizzleFried]

Pizza's here...as soon as I am done scarfing down I'll try `em out and report back.  Of course,  i assume if they don't work it's easy to get back to the other modes?

[northerngames]

yeah if it get's worse just go into the folder and delete the custom.txt and go back to the soft15K gui/menu and uninstall and reinsall and everything should go back to where we started.

[FrizzleFried]

Well,  I installed... and I notice no difference.  Again,  my problem isn't width-wise,  but height wise...  240 lines isn't enough to display the entire screen on Shuffleshot, World Class Bowling, etc unless you turn on hardware stretching (I assume).  I am not sure how resolutions in the 240 vertical lines range is going to help me.

I need something in the 256 lines range.

[FrizzleFried]

For shits and giggles I tried the 384 x 240 setting.... I admit it did show more image vertically but I did run in to this problem...



Foldover at the bottom.  The only way to eliminate the foldover with the monitor is to shrink the image to this...



Obviously not the ideal situation.  Any idea how to eliminate the foldover and retain the vertical picture size?

[northerngames]

I see yeah that would just convert what was removed over to 240 maybe sailor has something that can make them do 256 instead.


 Adjust V.size and H size to smallest setting then use V.pos and H.pos to center screen then redo the V.size and H.size to fill the screen since alot of games display in different res's it will alway's grow or shrink one way or another you just need to find the sweet spot where they all fit good perhaps.

 Also some monitors have a setting on the chassis harness where the screen can be displayed on a standard setting or a type of wide screen stretched type but I dont know the correct name it is called.

[Ummon]

For GT and WCB, the general mode to use is 384x288. (Although on my multisync I've found that 368x240 works better for GT.) As per the Ultimarc monitor FAQ, generally, more lines isn't a problem. It's less, as you're finding out, because you're using the wrong mode.

[northerngames]

I dunno where you got your info from 

Golden Tee '97 (c) 1997 Incredible Technologies.


- TECHNICAL -


Main CPU : 68EC020 (@ 25 Mhz), M6809 (@ 2 Mhz)

Sound Chips : ES5506 (@ 16 Mhz)


Screen orientation : Horizontal

Video resolution : 384 x 240 pixels

Screen refresh : 60.00 Hz

Palette colors : 32768

Control : trackball

Buttons : 2




World Class Bowling © 1995 Incredible Technologies.

Main CPU : 68000 (@ 12 Mhz), M6809 (@ 2 Mhz)
Sound Chips : ES5506 (@ 16 Mhz)

Screen orientation : Horizontal
Video resolution : 384 x 255 pixels
Screen refresh : 60.00 Hz
Palette colors : 32768

Players : 2
Control : trackball
Buttons : 2

[SailorSat]

News on the "Dongle".

It basicaly works as I've successfully unlocked a 8400GS and a 8600GT and both output even the very low resolution of 240x240
God knows why NVidia implemented as "safe mode" or whatever...


For the hardware itself... Well actually I haven't tinkered out a good layout for the pcb yet...
One would think two VGA connectors (with not even all pins connected) and an 8 pin IC should be pretty simple to connect...
I just started fooling around with EAGLE and allready hate that thing 


For the software part... The basic E-EDID works, though it only contains a modeline for 640x480 60Hz Interlace.
I guess I'll need some time with a documentation on the "DTD Extensions" sometime in the future.


And last but not least... Haven't tried it with my S3 cards yet.

[SailorSat]

Yet another funny fact...
I've setup a "default Timing" of 640x480 60Hz Interlaced, and guess what...
My 8400 boots up (in 31khz) and as soon as Windows loads up, it outputs 640x480 in 15kHz even without Soft-15kHz being installed.

Im curiuous for the things to come...

[krick]

KVM switches do something with EDID so that you can boot your computer without the monitor being directly attached.  Is there some way we can hack a cheap KVM and use it as a makeshift dongle?


EDIT 1:  This looks like an interesting device.  I wonder if something like this exists for a VCA connection...
http://www.startech.com/item/DVIEDIDDET-DVI-EDID-Capture-Detective-Box.aspx

EDIT 2:  Here's something for VGA...
http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Home/Products/Miscellaneous/EDID_Management/EM-EDID-HD15

EDIT 3:  Here's someone making their own EDID circuit for a PSOne LCD.  Very promising...
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.laura/Hacking%20a%20PSOne%20LCD.htm

[Ummon]

I dunno where you got your info from 

You mean me?

[alui]

SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".  I was using build 36 before this and that has been working fine.  Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong (I'm running WinXP Pro).  Just wanted to try out the new build.

Thanks

[northerngames]

I dunno where you got your info from 

You mean me?

 Yup you stated the mode was wrong and posted/suggested 2 incorrect displays for both games instead.

 You also stated that the ultimarc faq states more lines is the problem when that is false also it is the low res's that are required if you want a true native display not the higher one's.

 Also I posted what both of them games actually run on from their manufacture and if you want them to look authentic and native then run them at what they were supposed to be ran at is all.

that is why I posted that I dunno where you got that info from 

[SailorSat]

KVM switches do something with EDID so that you can boot your computer without the monitor being directly attached.  Is there some way we can hack a cheap KVM and use it as a makeshift dongle?

EDIT 2:  Here's something for VGA...
http://www.hallresearch.com/page/Home/Products/Miscellaneous/EDID_Management/EM-EDID-HD15

Sure you can use a KVM switch for that but...
The problem with those "cheap" KVMs is that they actually aren't cheap.
That EM-EDID-HD15 looks exactly like what I'm going to do, but it is listed for about 70 bucks.
Actually I'm even using something like that (a DVI Detective, 60€ over here) as a "test rig" for my EDID data.

The PSOne Hack pretty much uses the same IC that I'm working with, except mine has twice the capacity (24LC22A).

SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".

Hm...
That's interresting.
You DID extract it into an own directory did you? Running it from the ZIP shouldn't work too well.
Any other informations? What card/driver do you use (i.e. ATI or NVidia?)

Normaly "creating backup" means It tries to export the registry via a batch file and is waiting for that registry dump to be created.
Haven't touched these routines in ages.

For shits and giggles I tried the 384 x 240 setting.... I admit it did show more image vertically but I did run in to this problem...

Obviously not the ideal situation.  Any idea how to eliminate the foldover and retain the vertical picture size?

Hm...
Try tinkering around with the modeline a bit. (put it in custom15khz.txt)

modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 440 256 257 260 272 -hsync -vsync

[Haggar]

SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".  I was using build 36 before this and that has been working fine.  Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong (I'm running WinXP Pro).  Just wanted to try out the new build.

Thanks

I had the same problem, solved putting soft-15KHz from a directory directly to "C:\" (root).

[Ummon]

 Yup you stated the mode was wrong and posted/suggested 2 incorrect displays for both games instead.

 You also stated that the ultimarc faq states more lines is the problem when that is false also it is the low res's that are required if you want a true native display not the higher one's.

 Also I posted what both of them games actually run on from their manufacture and if you want them to look authentic and native then run them at what they were supposed to be ran at is all.

that is why I posted that I dunno where you got that info from 

You might want to re-read what I said there. Further, there's no reason Friz can't create his own special modes for those games, but there's generally no reason to, which is why Andy didn't.

[alui]

SailorSat, I downloaded build 44 and tried to run it just now.  However, it got stuck at the "creating backup ..." part after I clicked on "Install 15kHz".

Hm...
That's interresting.
You DID extract it into an own directory did you? Running it from the ZIP shouldn't work too well.
Any other informations? What card/driver do you use (i.e. ATI or NVidia?)

Normaly "creating backup" means It tries to export the registry via a batch file and is waiting for that registry dump to be created.
Haven't touched these routines in ages.


I figured out what's wrong.  I renamed my folder to "soft-15khz (Build 44)".  Apparent it didn't like the () in the folder name.  After I took them out, I was able to run/install it fine.  Incidentally, what's new in this build compared to build 36.

Also, is there any way for me to tell from the modeline alone what kHz it's for?T What if I mistakenly put a 25kHz modeline into the custom15khz.txt file and installed it?

Thanks

[SailorSat]

Also, is there any way for me to tell from the modeline alone what kHz it's for?
What if I mistakenly put a 25kHz modeline into the custom15khz.txt file and installed it?

Sure there is... Calculations
Well... Actually Soft-15kHz doesn't check if your modelines are in range, so It simply would install them if you placed them in custom15khz.txt and installed 15kHz modes.

Most likely the same would happen as if you run a normal 31kHz BIOS screen into your monitor...
IF you get anything at all, it's a scrambled image on the screen, and in some cases, your monitor will run hot after some time if you don't feed it a "correct" signal.

-- Calculations explained from a modeline example --


1. Get some values from the modeline

modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 440 256 257 260 272 -hsync -vsync

7.28 = Pixelclock in MHz
440 = Total Pixels Horizontal
272 = Total Lines Vertical (basically still pixels)



2. Get the Vertical Refresh

(7.28 MHz * 1000 * 1000) / (440 px * 272 lines) =
7280000 Hz / 119680 px = ~60,83 Hz

7280000 = Pixelclock in Hz
119680 = Total Pixels
60,83 = Refreshrate in Hz



3. Get the total line count

272 lines * 60,83 Hz = 16545,76 Hz = 16,5 kHz

16kHz is still in many monitors range and is called "extended resolution"
See http://www.arcadeguy.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=29

[subedriver]

I have a ati radeon 9250 pci that i'm using the soft 15 program with.  i still have my pc monitor hooked up to my onboard so i can see what i'm doing and the arcade monitor hooked up to the ati card.  Its set as a secondary on the ati.  I ran soft 15 and install the 15khz option.  I am also using a jpac.  I have a picture on my monitor but it's split in two and seems fuzzy.  It does this with the jumper just on the 15khz side on the jpac and with it on the 15hz and the 31khz which it should do during boot and then to normal screen.  Any idea on what else I need to do?  Thanks.

[alui]

Also, is there any way for me to tell from the modeline alone what kHz it's for?
What if I mistakenly put a 25kHz modeline into the custom15khz.txt file and installed it?

Sure there is... Calculations
Well... Actually Soft-15kHz doesn't check if your modelines are in range, so It simply would install them if you placed them in custom15khz.txt and installed 15kHz modes.

Most likely the same would happen as if you run a normal 31kHz BIOS screen into your monitor...
IF you get anything at all, it's a scrambled image on the screen, and in some cases, your monitor will run hot after some time if you don't feed it a "correct" signal.

-- Calculations explained from a modeline example --


1. Get some values from the modeline

modeline '352x256' 7.28 352 368 400 440 256 257 260 272 -hsync -vsync

7.28 = Pixelclock in MHz
440 = Total Pixels Horizontal
272 = Total Lines Vertical (basically still pixels)



2. Get the Vertical Refresh

(7.28 MHz * 1000 * 1000) / (440 px * 272 lines) =
7280000 Hz / 119680 px = ~60,83 Hz

7280000 = Pixelclock in Hz
119680 = Total Pixels
60,83 = Refreshrate in Hz



3. Get the total line count

272 lines * 60,83 Hz = 16545,76 Hz = 16,5 kHz

16kHz is still in many monitors range and is called "extended resolution"
See http://www.arcadeguy.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=29

Thanks SailorSat.  This really helps.

[AloneIBreak]

Hi there
I am using a 9200 SE and Soft15Khz.
I have Windows currently at 321x240 and everything seems ok.
But then when I go to MAME it seems to be flickering.

Do I need to have a custom resolution for each game?
For example , Metal Slug X have a screen resolution of 304x224.
Do I need to run at that resolution to stop flickering?
or the same resolution all the time ?

Thanks

[Haggar]

when I go to MAME it seems to be flickering

If it flickers you are using an interlaced resolution.

Use this settings for mame:
HARDWARE STRETCH MUST BE OFF
YOU MUST USE DIRECT-DRAW NOT DIRECT3D
SWITCH RESOLUTIONS MUST BE ENABLED

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres

Mame can pick the best resolution, but it will not always work. There are some tools that generates ini files with resolutions for all games, but they didn't worked very well for me.

[Ummon]

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres

Ohhhh. I never understood till now the syntax. I was always mimicing the ini file and adding a value after the parametre.

Mame can pick the best resolution, but it will not always work. There are some tools that generates ini files with resolutions for all games, but they didn't worked very well for me.

It will pick the best resolution out of what's available to it - eg: what have been loaded via soft15.