Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[SailorSat]

1st question - why custom modelines?
2nd question - you DID try to adjust your monitor by using the monitors controls?

[Tlk269]

1st question - why custom modelines?
2nd question - you DID try to adjust your monitor by using the monitors controls?

Hi SailorSat
I tried modelines because without them the image is even more to the right.
And the only buttons i can see in that arcade monitor is to focus the image and to give more or less light..
how am i going to make it work? i am getting crazzy
i already spent a lot of money in it to not getting it to work
please help me
thanks

[SailorSat]

You should try to locate the "remote control"-board for your monitor.

Grab a copy of
http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo_vp_series.pdf

Though It might be not exactly the exact model you have, it should point you in the right direction.


Other than that... Well you can try the modeline editor, but there are limits on how far you can move/stretch the image.
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/mledit.zip

[tony.silveira]

Hm.. I'll look into it.

thanks sailor sat!  actually, to clear up my feature request, hot keys would be to change resolution AND sync rate.

thanks again for just looking into it!

[Tlk269]

You should try to locate the "remote control"-board for your monitor.

Grab a copy of
http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo_vp_series.pdf

Though It might be not exactly the exact model you have, it should point you in the right direction.


Other than that... Well you can try the modeline editor, but there are limits on how far you can move/stretch the image.
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/mledit.zip

SailorSat i could kiss you now i went to see the manual as you said and there is actually one like mine
http://www.andysarcade.de/data/coinop/videogames/raster%20monitors/intervideo/intervideo%20dual%20frequency%20monitor%20instruction%20manual%20-%20lores.pdf
and i made it
I love you :p
for now the only problem is the red color.. really stronggg
i need to try to correct it

One more thing,
In the 5th page is written about 25khz, do you think i could/should use it?
is it ok and i would get a better image?

You are the best THANKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS A LOTTTTTTTTTTTT

[krick]

Windows 7? Won't work

Any particular reason that Windows 7 won't work?  Something different about the driver architecture?

How does Ultimarc make the ArcadeVGA work with Windows 7?

I'd like to move to Windows 7 64-bit for the performance boost in MAME, but this is a showstopper. 

[SailorSat]

Well the ArcadeVGA (and it's drivers) is a complete different approach (hacked bios/drivers).

For unknown reason, Windows 7 seems very strict on resolutions:
 - Everything above 640x480 works fine.
 - Everything below, doesn't show up.

Another problem would be, the new registry format. ATI didn't change much, but NVidia completely changed their drivers registry format.

IIRC you either have low resolutions (in 31+ kHz) or you have low frequency (in 640x480 and higher)

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

SailorSat,
I've been tinkering with 31kHz modes that are 2X scaled from the 15kHz modes for use with bitbytebit's GroovyMame, which does runtime modeline re-calculation from existing resolutions in the display list.

I've been trying different front porch values but keep getting the screen 'curled over' on the left hand side, even at 640x480. Can you suggest a better way of doing these?

Code: [Select]

Modeline "704x512@60" 27.64 704 736 824 856 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x480@60" 19.32 512 544 600 632 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "480x480@60" 18.25 480 512 568 600 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "512x512@60" 20.73 512 544 608 640 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "608x480@60" 22.54 608 640 704 736 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x480@60" 23.61 640 672 744 776 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "640x512@60" 25.33 640 672 752 784 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "672x480@60" 24.69 672 704 776 808 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "704x512@60" 27.64 704 736 824 856 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "704x528@60" 28.61 704 736 824 856 528 538 544 555 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "704x576@60" 31.53 704 736 832 864 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "736x480@60" 26.83 736 768 848 880 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "768x576@60" 34.16 768 800 904 936 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "784x480@60" 28.44 784 816 904 936 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "768x576@60" 34.16 768 800 904 936 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "736x480@60" 26.83 736 768 848 880 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "800x512@60" 31.09 800 832 928 960 512 522 527 538 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "800x600@60" 37.20 800 832 944 976 600 612 618 631 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "832x624@60" 40.33 832 864 992 1024 624 637 643 656 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1024x480@60" 36.49 1024 1056 1168 1200 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1024x576@60" 44.67 1024 1056 1192 1224 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1264x528@60" 49.48 1264 1296 1448 1480 528 538 544 555 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1280x480@60" 45.08 1280 1312 1448 1480 480 490 495 505 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "1280x576@60" 55.18 1280 1312 1488 1520 576 587 593 605 -hsync -vsync
All of these modes display correctly aside from the curling issue. When I use the modes in your 31kHz set, they display correctly.

[SailorSat]

Hm...
The modeline of 640x480 looks rather strange.
Frontporch and Backporch seem to be almost the same.

Try something like a 1/5th, 2/5th, 3/5th ratio.
i.E. 640 672 736 828 instead of 640 672 744 776
         32   64   92                      32   72   32

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

How are you generating those? I was using an online generator, and don't really understand how the formulas work.

[retrorepair]

I can't get my head round the formulas either and don't really know what to put in the online generator.

Is it possible or does someone have a 640x480i modeline for 25khz? Or is there a good reason soft15khz only includes the two modelines for 25k?

[MonMotha]

Is there a document that describes the exact timings installed by default by Soft15kHz?  I'm trying to help someone troubleshoot an installation, and I think I may have it pinned down to the number of lines during vsync, so I'd like to know exactly what timings he's actually using.  X modeline format or anything similar is fine.

[SailorSat]

This must be like the 10th time in this thread...
Whatever Here go the default modelines

Code: [Select]

' -= 15KHz Progressive =-
modeline '240x240' 4,83 240 252 276 310 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240' 5,30 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256' 5,36 256 268 292 330 256 257 260 273 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264' 5,35 256 268 292 330 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240' 5,84 288 296 328 368 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240' 5,95 296 304 336 376 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240' 6,20 304 320 352 396 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240' 6,45 320 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256' 6,68 320 340 372 416 256 257 260 268 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240' 6,83 336 352 384 433 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256' 7,28 352 368 400 450 256 257 260 271 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264' 7,35 352 365 405 452 264 265 268 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288' 7,40 352 368 408 464 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240' 7,47 368 384 424 478 240 243 246 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288' 7,85 384 400 440 496 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240' 8,00 392 408 448 504 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256' 8,08 400 416 456 519 256 268 271 297 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240' 9,16 448 464 512 576 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240' 10,68 512 544 600 672 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288' 10,68 512 544 600 672 288 289 292 312 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264' 13,00 632 664 728 824 264 265 268 278 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13,22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288' 13,10 640 672 736 832 288 289 292 309 -hsync -vsync
 
' -= 15KHz Interlace =-
modeline '512x448' 10,60 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 10,60 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 13,09 640 672 736 836 480 481 483 526 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 14,60 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 16,48 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 interlace -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600' 20,90 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 interlace -hsync -vsync
 
' -= 25KHz Progressive =-
modeline '496x384' 15,4752 496 508 570 620 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x384' 14,75 512 520 568 600 384 388 391 410 -hsync -vsync

' -= 31KHz Progressive =-
modeline '512x448' 21,21 512 542 598 672 448 469 472 527 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512' 21,21 512 538 594 668 512 513 516 545 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480' 26,18 640 672 736 836 480 486 489 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480' 29,25 720 752 824 928 480 486 489 526 -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600' 32,96 800 840 920 1040 600 602 605 627 -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600' 41,80 1024 1072 1176 1328 600 607 610 627 -hsync -vsync

[MonMotha]

This must be like the 10th time in this thread...
Whatever Here go the default modelines

I tried searching the thread, but it's huge, and SMF doesn't have the greatest search function in the world.  Thanks!

FYI, I haven't tested it exactly, but the timings used by your 640x480 15kHz mode are similar to the mode I used but several monitors I tested didn't like.  I don't think there were enough lines during vsync.  The 720x480 mode is much closer to what I found to work in the end.  For reference, here's what I had:

Code: [Select]

Not working:
Modeline "640x480_GTF60i"  11.93  640 656 720 800  480 481 484 497  +HSync +Vsync Interlace

Working:
ModeLine "640x480_ATSC60i" 11.97 640 664 736 760 480 484 492 525 +Hsync +Vsync Interlace

Everything was externally normalized to negative composite sync for my monitors, so I'm pretty sure it was the timings.  Note that some monitors don't have a problem with the first, but everything worked with the latter.

Dunno if you may want to consider updating things.  I guess if most people are having success, then it's probably fine.  Your pixel clock is quite a bit higher (resulting in faster hsync), so that may change things.  Then again, my friend was using Soft15kHz (I was on Linux), and had the same problem as I did.

[kefka13]

Hi SailorSat,

Do you make and sell EDID dongle ? I have a card that prevent me to get resolutions under 640x480 and apaprently we must use a dongle to prevent that (I imagine you can't hack this in soft15khz ...)

Thanks.

[SailorSat]

So... I finally managed to do something again...
First thing was to install the retail Windows7 on my development machine...

Actually everything worked out of the box

Win7 Pro, Radeon HD3450, Catalyst 11.3

Then there will be a new version of QuickRes later this day which features a hotkey for 640x480 60Hz.

Any ideas what key combination would be smart? Nope, Ctrl-Alt-Del is not possible
My "visual" modeline editor will be updated too.

First - there will be "list" feature to enable/disable/modify the built-in modelines (modifications will be saved to either customXXkhz.txt or usermodes.txt)

Second - there will be a modeline generator.

Third - the editor MAY work on the fly with Radeons.

[The Big Man]

Hey Sailorsat, I recently converted my mates Jamma machine to a mame machine and am using your soft15khz software but am having a little problem, What I'm running is windows on the arcade monitor using a J-pac, Ati Radeon 9250, the mamewah front end and your program. The reason I choose the Radeon 9250 was that I was led to believe that it was a good substitute for the Arcadevga but It dosen't seem to be capable of the lower Arcade resolutions, the lowest res it seems to like is 640x480 which is fine but when I run mame(from the mamewah frontend) and it changes the resolution to a lower one for the game upon exiting the game it seems to lose sync and only turning the monitor off and back on seems to fix this. I've also used Refreshforce to tell the graphics card what resolutions to use but for some reason it dosen't like it when it has to change between them in windows, mamewah and mame itself, what am I doing wrong?

[SailorSat]

Most likely your catalyst is too new.
Use Catalyst 6.5 or prior releases.

[The Big Man]

I did forget to mention I am using Catalyst 6.5!

[SailorSat]

Phew... Thats strange. Have you tried getting a list of resolutions with QuickRes?
Most likely you have to adjust the monitor by hand then. What kind of monitor is it?

[The Big Man]

Yeah quickres lists loads of resolutions including all the arcade ones and upto 800x600 but when  I go into the settings for my display adapter and click on list all modes it only comes up with about 4 different ones 640x480 being the lowest, I'm using a Pentranic 26" 15khz arcade monitor, shouldn't windows list all the capable resolutions of the card the same way that quickres does?

[The Big Man]

Heres what I'm getting, Pic 1 is after I boot into windows, Pic 2 Mamewah running, Pic 3 The game and Pic 4 when I exit the game.

[Calamity]

Heres what I'm getting, Pic 1 is after I boot into windows, Pic 2 Mamewah running, Pic 3 The game and Pic 4 when I exit the game.

When you loose sync (pic 4), try unplugging and plugging your jpac from its usb connection, probably that will bring the sync back. If that's the case then the issue is with your jpac (mine too).

[The Big Man]

Hey Calamity, when this happens I turn off the arcade machine and back on and this seems to fix it but obviously I don't want to be unplugging the cabinet everytime I want to play a different game, I did suspect that it was a voltage problem caused by the keyboard port as it dosen't seem to be able to power the jpac on its own, I have a ps/2 usb splitter cable plugged into it to give it the extra 5v from the usb port.

[Calamity]

Hey Calamity, when this happens I turn off the arcade machine and back on and this seems to fix it but obviously I don't want to be unplugging the cabinet everytime I want to play a different game, I did suspect that it was a voltage problem caused by the keyboard port as it dosen't seem to be able to power the jpac on its own, I have a ps/2 usb splitter cable plugged into it to give it the extra 5v from the usb port.

So the videocard is working fine it seems, otherwise it wouldn't sync after that. What I do is to reset the jpac itself, and that works fine for me, probably we are having the same issue and has to do with usb/ps-2 power. It's really fuzzy in my case, sometimes it happens all the time as resolution changes, but then it gets cured for a month or so.

[The Big Man]

Well yes, but mine seems to do it constantly, I did think of connecting a different pc to it to eliminate a motherboard/jpac fault but its going to be a hassle for me, I'm hoping Sailorsat can point me in the right direction.

[SailorSat]

If I remember correctly you can disable the frequency filter on the jpac by removing all jumpers (so neither 15k,24k,31k is closed)
Maybe this helps.

[The Big Man]

Will the jpac still filter out the 31khz vga signal until windows loads the soft15khz driver, eg is it safe to turn on the monitor before windows has fully loaded? Also i've just rememberd something else, when booting up I get the double bios screen as I have jumpers on the 15 and 31khz but the picture is not stable and jumps up and down, its only when windows has fully loaded that the picture stabilises, should the bios screen not be readable albiet in split screen?

[SailorSat]

No it won't. But you won't hurt your monitor at all

[The Big Man]

Cheers, I'll try it out and let you know how I get on

[The Big Man]

Hey Sailorsat, Tried what you suggested with the jumpers, with no jumpers I couldn't get the vertical hold to stay put and the picture just kept rolling but I was able to test the mamewah frontend and mame and upon exiting a game I lost sync as usual, I've come to the conclusion that It must be down to one of two things, the J-pac itself is faulty or there is a problem with the keyboard port of the motherboard not suppling the Jpac with a constant current, I'm going to try connecting a different pc to it and see if I can eliminate the the PC itself.

[The Big Man]

Hey Sailorsat I've just noticed on the soft15khz page over at arcadeinfo that it says that it only supports Ati Catalyst in windows 98, I'm using windows xp, could that be anything to do with my problem?

[SailorSat]

That's a missunderstanding then

If you use Windows98 it ONLY works with Catalyst.
If you use NT5 (2000/XP) or NT6(Vista/Seven) everything works (at least it should)

[The Big Man]

Hey Sailorsat, tried a different pc on my cab, albiet with the same Ati Radeon card from the original pc, I was still getting the same problem, losing sync after exiting mame, I conclude that my J-pac is faulty, do you agree?

[Gray_Area]

Hey Sailorsat, tried a different pc on my cab, albiet with the same Ati Radeon card from the original pc, I was still getting the same problem, losing sync after exiting mame, I conclude that my J-pac is faulty, do you agree?

I suggest trying a different card.

[The Big Man]

I'm so confused, can someone help me please? I've come to the conclusion that theres nothing wrong with any of my hardware, what exactly should I be doing once I've used soft15khz to change the output of my graphics card. Lets start from the begining, I've used the software, my pc is now connected to my cab, windows has booted and all is fine and I'm looking at my windows desktop which is running in 640x480 32bit. I'm using the Mamewah frontend (also set to 640x480), when I run it I can select a game which loads no problem, I can play the game without issue but I don't know what resoulution the game is using, upon exit from the game back to the menu i've lost sync, what am I doing wrong and where does quickres come into it cause when I run it and click on the resolutions it comes up with I lose sync! please help! I'm about to give up!

[SailorSat]

The fact that you loose sync is buggin me.

I'd say...
boot up the cab -> start soft15khz -> uninstall and reinstall 15khz -> reboot

[TheGunslinger]

This is my first build and things are going well except one bug that I can not solve. I am running a GeForce 8800 GT and have installed the most recent drivers. I installed Soft-15KHz and rebooted, all while plugged into my VGA monitor. As soon as windows booted up it went blank and gave an out of range error on the screen. I moved my connection from my computer monitor to my J-Pac and the arcade monitor looked great. Now, if I reboot and leave the arcade monitor connected it comes up with a split screen. If I reboot with the computer monitor connected as soon as windows boots I get the error and switch over my connections and everything is fine. Do I have to boot to the computer monitor each time and manually switch my connection over to the J-Pac each time or is there a way to leave my arcade monitor connected all the time?

[Gray_Area]

I'm so confused, can someone help me please?

I think I remember some kind of thing like this with Mamewah; older versions, perhaps....though, it is a dinosaur. Try a different front end.

This is my first build and things are going well except one bug that I can not solve. I am running a GeForce 8800 GT and have installed the most recent drivers. I installed Soft-15KHz and rebooted, all while plugged into my VGA monitor. As soon as windows booted up it went blank and gave an out of range error on the screen. I moved my connection from my computer monitor to my J-Pac and the arcade monitor looked great. Now, if I reboot and leave the arcade monitor connected it comes up with a split screen. If I reboot with the computer monitor connected as soon as windows boots I get the error and switch over my connections and everything is fine. Do I have to boot to the computer monitor each time and manually switch my connection over to the J-Pac each time or is there a way to leave my arcade monitor connected all the time?

Yes. Leave it connected to your PC. Set your desktop for a 15khz compatible resolution - for example, 640x240.

[SailorSat]

Sounds like a classic EDID issue. You'll need an edid dongle. Or you might get another gfx card (Radeon 4350/4550)