Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[Ummon]

Looks like I did, however I won't comment that

Where?

reference: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.msg1011092#msg1011092

[gatordad]

Ok I had great success last night I ran avga tool and bingo almost everything looks great.
I had to tweak several resolutions with my monitor adjustments but all in all it looks good to go.

I did have a couple of questions

1st,
Since my monitor is a quad sync cga, ega, vga and svga what would you suggest I use for a non interlaced 800 x 600p desktop res for my other computer related games currently 800x600 is flickering so I'm guessing every resolution is interlaced correct?

2nd
I only tried one vector game tempest and it was not centered at all and no amount of adjustment would help, should I manually adjust the games ini to reflect 800x 600 or is there another res that works well

3rd
For Missle command, track and field, and hypersports I had to compress the vertical monitor adjustment down to a point where it almost looks like a wide screen image if I left it open to full screen I had image wrap or tearing at the top of my image which resembled a sanyo when they develop vertical foldover, image is wrapped ontop of itself.

Thanks much salior this is awesome now that I have made progress, I feel great cause this was on my to do list for the last year, I was running everything at 800x600 but that kind of defeats the purpose of spending all that cash on a nice multisync monitor doesn't it?

[Epyx]

Have you tried the Tri-Sync utility on the Ultimarc website? This gave me flicker free SVGA modes.

[gatordad]

Have you tried the Tri-Sync utility on the Ultimarc website? This gave me flicker free SVGA modes.

You know I downloaded that a few days ago but got distracted and never installed it. I will give the tri sync utility a try this weekend

Last night I was messing with the ini for tempest and could not get it vertically certered on the screen with any monitor adjustment, I only see the top 2/3 of the game
Could someone post what your ini look like for tempest so I have a starting point to work from.
Thanks

[Epyx]

Tempest, as a vector game, is probably a game you want to play at a higher resolution and turn increase the beam intensity and width (going off of memory here). I think I play mine at 640x480.

[tisurame]

I know it's limited to 5 custom modes, but if I want to include only 3 custom modes  (256x240, 321x240, 640x240 / 15khz), how this could be done? What configuration need to be added inside usermode.txt ?

Code: [Select]

modeline '256x240' 5.3 256 272 296 336 240 244 247 261 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240' 6.45 320 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '321x240' 6.45 321 336 368 414 240 242 245 264 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240' 13.22 640 672 736 832 240 243 246 265 -hsync -vsync
we should try 320x240 and 321x240 at the same time.
If 320x240 works, simply drop 321x240, if now dropt drop the other one

It's not working. But to tell the true I'm not sure if "usermode.txt" is exactly the name of the file that needs to be included inside soft15khz directory - in that case, which is the right name for the .txt file?

[SailorSat]

its usermodes.txt

[Ummon]

[You know I downloaded that a few days ago but got distracted and never installed it. I will give the tri sync utility a try this weekend

Last night I was messing with the ini for tempest and could not get it vertically certered on the screen with any monitor adjustment, I only see the top 2/3 of the game
Could someone post what your ini look like for tempest so I have a starting point to work from.
Thanks

That utility is only for AVGAs. If you're getting flicker, I'm betting the farm that it's because you didn't load in 31khz modes, or custom 31khz modes.

As for vector games, run the highest res you can - or at least 640x480.

[tisurame]

its usermodes.txt

Thanks. But with the default driver it doesnt seen to make any change on the available display resolutions. So, I think it's really not working.

[ahofle]

Hey SailorSat, have you seen this new NVIDIA control panel?  Just curious if this can be used for 15khz resolutions.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=96344.0

[SailorSat]

Actually this is in the forceware since months.
And it won't let you add everything.

To add some resolutions, you have to test them, and most of the time, lowres modes won't be even "tested", they just fail.

[Ummon]

To add some resolutions, you have to test them, and most of the time, lowres modes won't be even "tested", they just fail.

Sounds like AdvanceMAME, at the end of configuration in advcfg. I almost always skip testing any modes, cos the configuraton screen loaded so obviously something works, and sure enough games load just fine at their respective resolutions. There was once that, on some whim, I tested a mode in advcfg - and it loaded!

[Antropus]

SailorSat,

what an amazing job my friend! I don't post much over these forums but I'm always watching the discussions. I had an arcadeVGA2 installed in my machine and was working great, till I decided to play some more 3D intense games and it choked. I upgraded my whole machine now to an i7 920 overclocked to 4Ghz, 6GB RAM and an Radeon HD 4890 so I can play much more advanced emulated games. I was concerned that the soft 15Khz would give me some sort of "pseudo-resolution" that would not look like what I was getting with my arcadeVGA2. The fact is: it looks JUST THE SAME! Every game I've tried look like the real deal, with perfect resolution/scanlines on my Betson Multisync. All resolutions I've tried look perfect and now I've a GREAT advantage: I can play ANYTHING on my machine because my new hardware can take it! Also, much more custom modes are available now, making possible for me to play in native resolution some games I was playing in 640x480 before and boy, what a difference it made! So, I'm just stopping by to say THANK YOU very much for this tool and your hard work. I'll make sure to stop by and make my donation to your project soon.

Cheers,
-Kris

[BadMojo12]

Hi all:  Posting occasionally on the forum has led to great results and I'm hoping this won't be the exception.  I scored a Sony PVM 2530 presentation monitor and have been running it with mame/gameex in S-video mode and it looks great.  Can someone recommend if its worth it to make a VGA cable to run mame?  Consensus seems to be yes, but I am not clear on what's required; must I (should I) use ArcadeVGA?  Soft-15KHz?  Just Advancemame? Can I still play PC games as I have my cab set up for SFIV?

My S-video 2530 looks as good as  my Mits with component in; if I can't find an easy way to use VGA in arcade mode then the switch will not be worth it; someone please let me know.....

BadMojo

[PimpDaddyStu]

Been playing about with this for a few days I think I'm finally getting somewhere, I've tried 2 ATI cards and HD4850 and the latest ArcadeVGA but Catalyst 9.8 installed instead of Andy's driver... this may seem pointless but the latest Catalyst will get Street Fighter IV running at a playable 47fps whereas Andy's driver struggles to get over 25fps

Anyhow I didn't have much luck with either ATI card after installing all 3 modes in Soft-15k for my PoloStar Multisync I ended up with only:
640x480
800x600
1024x768

Which I find a bit odd as using Andy's driver and the ArcadeVGA yields all the resolutions

I then decided to test my 8800GT and 8600GTS using the latest NVidia drivers 190.62 which are both giving much better results
I've now got all resolutions down to 304x240, there are 5 which don't work correctly
304x240
352x288
384x288
512x288
512x448

but I'm not really bothered about them

What I'm bothered about is why I can't get any of the 2??x2?? resolutions to appear
I've checked my ini's and there are almost 1100 games that Avres has set to use 256x240 so I'd really like to get this resolution back somehow

I should say I'm running Vista x64, which I know is not recommended so maybe this is the problem?

Thanks
Stu

[SailorSat]

Try an older Catalyst like 9.4
And... What OS?

[PimpDaddyStu]

I quickly tried 9.2 last night but after the driver installed and rebooted it complained that it could find my ATI card or it wasn't functioning properly.

I'll give it another bash tonight and try 9.4 instead

I'm running Vista x64... could this be the problem?

Stu

[PimpDaddyStu]

I just tried my 8800GT in my XP pc at work and it shows the 2??x2?? set of resolutions so it would seem this is a Vista issue

I do remember you saying something about possibly installing the xp drivers in vista but I can't remember where it was at, or even if it was in the middle of this huge topic or not

Stu

[bent98]

Salior how does soft15khz work in Windows 7 ultimate 64?

[PimpDaddyStu]

Been playing about with this all night and I'm still not having any joy with either ATI card, I've manged to get both Cataluyst 9.2 and 9.4 installed but I still can't get any low resolutions to appear.

I've made a discovery with the 8600 though, depending on what monitor I have plugged in when I reboot, quick res will show different resolutions...

I plugged an old NEC Diamond PC monitor into my arcade, installed all 3 soft-15k options rebooted and noticed the 2??x2?? where available, I unplugged the NEC and plugged in my Hantrex Polo Star and tested the various 2??x2?? resolutions and they worked fine.

I rebooted the system with the PoloStar attached and now the 2??x2?? resolutions are missing again

I've attached an image of 2 screen grabs of quick res

Where does quick res gets its information from? Is this expected?

Stu

[mooro]

Newbie here. Just setting up a mame convert for an old undedicated cab. Doing o.k. Got soft15khz working pretty quickly with my Nvidia 6800 I had lying around. Monitor is Hantarex 9300.

I am having problem sdisplaying the 321 x 240 resoltuion. The monitor just won't handle it for some games, and others gives a really small pciture on the screen. If I remove 321 x 240 from the available modes list in mame resolution tool, and use 336 x 240, all seems o.k. Any idea why I cant get the 321 mode to run properly?

Also, although mame resoltuion tool is really useful, wouldn't if be good if you could re-run it without having to redo all the settings each time, i.e. on a per game basis? AM I missing something?

One last question sailor, If I switch to cabmame, can I keep my romset for .134 and will it work o.k. with mamewah?

Cheers,

mooro

[SailorSat]

I'm running Vista x64... could this be the problem?

Actually Soft-15kHz should tell you it probably won't work on Vista
So yes, thats a Vista issue.

I've made a discovery with the 8600 though, depending on what monitor I have plugged in when I reboot, quick res will show different resolutions...

I plugged an old NEC Diamond PC monitor into my arcade, installed all 3 soft-15k options rebooted and noticed the 2??x2?? where available, I unplugged the NEC and plugged in my Hantrex Polo Star and tested the various 2??x2?? resolutions and they worked fine.

I rebooted the system with the PoloStar attached and now the 2??x2?? resolutions are missing again

Thats the "safe mode" problem. You'll need a valid EDID source for that card to fully work.

Salior how does soft15khz work in Windows 7 ultimate 64?

Works fine in the Seven Beta (x64) for me, so most likely should work fine in the retail too.

Newbie here. Just setting up a mame convert for an old undedicated cab. Doing o.k. Got soft15khz working pretty quickly with my Nvidia 6800 I had lying around. Monitor is Hantarex 9300.

I am having problem sdisplaying the 321 x 240 resoltuion. The monitor just won't handle it for some games, and others gives a really small pciture on the screen. If I remove 321 x 240 from the available modes list in mame resolution tool, and use 336 x 240, all seems o.k. Any idea why I cant get the 321 mode to run properly?

Hm... You shouldn't have the 321x240 mode on nvidia cards anymore, should be 320x240.
Are you using the latest version? Maybe you just found a bug

Also, although mame resoltuion tool is really useful, wouldn't if be good if you could re-run it without having to redo all the settings each time, i.e. on a per game basis? AM I missing something?

Don't know exactly what you mean. Theres a global file with settings (mame.ini) where you can set "switchres" to 1 and let mame decide its resolution by itself. Also in the subfolder "ini" there are game-specific files for settings (i.e. pacman.ini).

One last question sailor, If I switch to cabmame, can I keep my romset for .134 and will it work o.k. with mamewah?

Cheers,
mooro

I'll upload cabmame 0.134 today, somehow totaly missed it.
It works as a simple drop-in replacement and should work fine out of the box.

[KissMyWookie]

For anyone that still needs a graphics card that works well with Soft15kHz - Newegg.com has a good deal on an ASUS ATI 4350, that has a nice big passively cooled heatsink on it and it's $27.99 after MIR (Mail-In Rebate).

ASUS EAH4350 SILENT/DI/512MD2(LP) Radeon HD 4350 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 CrossFire Supported Low Profile Ready Video Card - Retail

Steve

[Cisek]

Sorry if someone already asked about it, but can somebody post additional custom 15 khz modelines? Those that are built in are great and all of them works on my monitor, however some mame games just can't be played in their native, as there isn't some resolutions implemented in soft15khz, which gives a laggy sound (I know about cabmame, but I would like to solve it with additional resolutions modelines). If anyone have made additional 15 khz resolutions modelines, that are working, please post it here.

[Ummon]

Sorry if someone already asked about it, but can somebody post additional custom 15 khz modelines? Those that are built in are great and all of them works on my monitor, however some mame games just can't be played in their native, as there isn't some resolutions implemented in soft15khz, which gives a laggy sound (I know about cabmame, but I would like to solve it with additional resolutions modelines). If anyone have made additional 15 khz resolutions modelines, that are working, please post it here.

The thread is peppered with them, and discussions on them. An archive of certain things abstracted would be cool....oh, wait, that's what a wiki's for.....except people don't read it, don't know it's there, or/and don't frequently maintain it. Mmmm.

[Cisek]

I am sorry, my english is very poor and I couldn't find a solution for my question in this topic (I tried some of the additional modelines but it didn't work). So please excuse me. Still if anyone can help me, it would be very appreciated.

[Ummon]

Seems your english is fine to me. Maybe you don't really understand how native display works, and how to calculate modelines an all. It's a little complex, it is. Check out the monitor wiki. Also, ask someone you know to help you with words or whatever, or ask someone here and give your native language.

[mooro]

O.K. so I downloaded the newer version of soft15khz and now I have the 320 mode and that is working fine, thanks.

The problem I am having now is on start up. I have shelled the p.c. to boot straight into mamewah.

Most of the time this results in 15khz not being sent to the monitor (as confirmed by abscence of l.e.d. on j-pac).

However If I press "Player 1" to start a game, then 15khz gets sent, and the "nag" screen appears for the game just started. If I then exit back to mamewah, it displays fine.

Strangely, sometimes tunring on the p.c. sees it send 15khz first time, and Mamewah is visible without the above work around.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

mooro

[Seven11]

OK, guys, I have a new problem, with a new machine, and I was hoping somebody in this forum could maybe point me in the right direction...
I have a Top Skater machine with a 50" toshiba projection monitor on it.  The only inputs the monitor has is BCNC, so I ordered a VGA to BCNC cable and hooked it up.  With the pc running normally, tons of out of sync garbage appears on screen, just as if you hooked it up to an arcade monitor without modifying it.  So I installed soft15, and it wouldnt display anything at all.  Sometimes it will turn one solid color for a few seconds and fade out, but that's it.
When I hook up a regular PC monitor to it, it displays properly, but I dont think it should, because soft15 is supposedly installed.  I have it running through an Nvidia 6800oc, and I used a program called refreshforce to remove a bunch of resolutions from it to avoid the forceware bug.
I'm really wondering if this setup CAN work.  Ive gotten all the manuals for the TopSkater machine, and they all show it as a Mitsubishi Projection TV, but this is very obviously NOT that TV.  It should also be noted that when I originally got the machine, it worked as a TopSkater just fine, display and all. 
I guess I'm just asking if anyone has any knowledge of projection screens that might be able to help me out.  I would hate for this project to turn out to be a big waste...
Thanks in advance.

[KissMyWookie]

Seven11 - Do you have the RGB+VSync+HSync connected into the correct BNC terminals?

[Seven11]

Yeah, they're color-coded and kinda hard to mess up.  I hooked the massive monitor up to my mame machine which already has soft15 installed and running properly, and it still comes up with a garbled, out of sync mess.  This leads me to believe that this monitor runs at a different frequency than normal arcade monitors do.  I'll include a few pics of what the screen is doing when it is hooked up to my working mame / soft15khz setup.  As always, good work, everyone, and thanks in advance.

EDIT: It should also be noted that the monitor only uses a single sync cable.  I'm using a VGA to BNC RGBs cable to hook it up.  Not sure if that would cause any problems.  Also, I read somewhere that these SEGA monitors are supposedly 24KHz, but there seemed to be some confusion from other people saying they were 15KHz.  I know some SEGA stuff is med-res, such as Virtua Fighter 2/3 and I think Virtua Cop and some others.  I will be checking into this momentarily.

[Ummon]

Seven. Installing soft15 means you now HAVE the capacity for lower resolutions. You have to then SET one - either you desktop, or/and games in MAME.

[KissMyWookie]

Yeah, they're color-coded and kinda hard to mess up.  I hooked the massive monitor up to my mame machine which already has soft15 installed and running properly, and it still comes up with a garbled, out of sync mess.  This leads me to believe that this monitor runs at a different frequency than normal arcade monitors do.  I'll include a few pics of what the screen is doing when it is hooked up to my working mame / soft15khz setup.  As always, good work, everyone, and thanks in advance.

EDIT: It should also be noted that the monitor only uses a single sync cable.  I'm using a VGA to BNC RGBs cable to hook it up.  Not sure if that would cause any problems.  Also, I read somewhere that these SEGA monitors are supposedly 24KHz, but there seemed to be some confusion from other people saying they were 15KHz.  I know some SEGA stuff is med-res, such as Virtua Fighter 2/3 and I think Virtua Cop and some others.  I will be checking into this momentarily.

After looking up Sega Top Skater, I found the resolution of the game to be 496x384@60Hz - which is a 24kHz horizontal scan rate.

It is possible that Sega skimped on the monitor circuit and it can only handle 24kHz signals ... in which case you'll have to calculate new modelines to try to get the resolutions you want for MAME.

Also, the VGA->RGBs cable you have - if it is not powered, then the sync combiner circuit in the cable will be made for specific horizontal and vertical polarities. If you have a manual/guide for the cable, set your modelines as it specifies ... if not, try every combination of positive/negative+horizontal/vertical that there is.

Steve

Edit: I got the 24kHz from the XFree86 Modeline generator...
http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl

[Seven11]

After looking up Sega Top Skater, I found the resolution of the game to be 496x384@60Hz - which is a 24kHz horizontal scan rate.

It is possible that Sega skimped on the monitor circuit and it can only handle 24kHz signals ... in which case you'll have to calculate new modelines to try to get the resolutions you want for MAME.

Also, the VGA->RGBs cable you have - if it is not powered, then the sync combiner circuit in the cable will be made for specific horizontal and vertical polarities. If you have a manual/guide for the cable, set your modelines as it specifies ... if not, try every combination of positive/negative+horizontal/vertical that there is.

Steve

Alright, that sounds like something useful.  It should be also noted that I will not be using this for MAME, but for StepMania, a Dance Dance Revolution emulator that runs in windows.
You mention calculating new modelines, but I am under the understanding that soft15 can only do certain resolutions, and very little at 25KHz.  I am kinda way outta my league here, so any info is good info, at this point.
End project objective is to get a windows pc to display on this screen.  After that, everything will be left alone, as I wont be doing any switchres-ing or anything like that, simply because the only program that will be running on the machine can be set to one res and be done.
Thanks for the help guys, I think we're getting close.

[solid187]

Has anyone noticed a slugishness in trackball games (specifically Centipede and Millipede) after installing this awesome utility?  I'm not sure if it's related, but now there is a slight delay from when I physically move the trackball and when my player moves. 

[KissMyWookie]

Has anyone noticed a slugishness in trackball games (specifically Centipede and Millipede) after installing this awesome utility?  I'm not sure if it's related, but now there is a slight delay from when I physically move the trackball and when my player moves. 

The problem you're having is completely unrelated ... I don't know where though!

Soft-15kHz is only running at the time you have the interface open. It doesn't run in the background at all ... it just sets things in your windows registry, then terminates when you close the program.

[Antropus]

I fresh installed windows 7 yesterday and I'm having problems making soft15khz to work with it. Seems like the resolutions are added fine (once applied, every time I run the .exe file I can only see the "uninstall' button available, so I guess the resolutions were added fine...). BUT, once I run mameUI and try to change the resolution of any game (like I usually do in windowsXP), I don't have ANY of the custom resolutions available. I have WindowsXP running in the same machine and soft15khz works perfectly on it but windows 7 is a no go. Any plans for a new version fully compatible with windows 7? Workarounds? Any help?

ps.: I have Catalyst 9.10 for Win7 64 installed. Do you think that if I remove it and ask windows to search and install a driver from their database - other than catalyst - soft15khz will be able to 'see' the card and install the new resolutions? I mean, do I need to have catalyst installed or a 'generic' windows driver for the ATI HD 4890 will work with soft15khz?

Thanks in advance,
-Kris

[SailorSat]

Maybe they changed some key names.
I'll check out soon.

[Antropus]

Maybe they changed some key names.
I'll check out soon.

Thanks a TON!

-Kris

[Ummon]

Has anyone noticed a slugishness in trackball games (specifically Centipede and Millipede) after installing this awesome utility?  I'm not sure if it's related, but now there is a slight delay from when I physically move the trackball and when my player moves. 

Running at different resolutions can cause frame rate glitches. How MAME runs natively (and as I've said before, this seems to be getting worse as MAME develops) can affect this.

As well, how your monitor interacts with MAME is a factor. Analog monitors I've used, as long as you're giving good and correct signal wiring-wise, and you're within operational range signal-wise, have been smoooooth with regular MAME. Older MAME, anyways.

My digital multi-sync, on the other hand, is a little finicky at times, cos it has specific modes of its own. (Another reason I stick with AdvanceMAME is that it runs the best in this case.)