Control panel review - 4 player with spinner

[vidmouse]

Just a quick review request... looking at adding a spinner to my control panel.  Don't have one yet, just considering hacking an old mouse
to do it but wanted feedback on my placement before going through that work.

Thanks!

[SavannahLion]

Player 3 and 1 seem awfully close to each other, especially with that spinner there.

There seems to be some discourse about angling 3 & 4 like that.

I personally like cut corners or rounded corners. No fun digging your crotch or gut into an pointy arcade unless it's vibrating.

What are the buttons across the front for?

[vidmouse]

The whole thing is pretty close, but I think the angled 3/4
helps with that.  My room doesn't allow for a wider CP
unfortunately (heh need a new room).

I'm hoping the T-molding will soften those corners.
I'm not quite sure how to cut it otherwise.

The front (and side) buttons are for Visual Pinball.
(flippers, tilts L/R/C, ball launch, and "start")
Yeah I know I could've used buttons up top for
the start and all that but I figure this will feel more real.

Thanks for feedback, keep it coming all...

[Kaytrim]

The TT2 spinner from Groovy Game Gear uses the same amount of space as a normal button.  This would make placement much easier than what you have drawn there.  Plus it comes with it's own interface for PS/2 or USB connection.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[javeryh]

The spinner looks a little close to the P1 joy.  Make sure your wrist doesn't keep hitting it.  Also, as mentioned, there is some debate over whether angling the P3 and P4 joys is a good idea but that's just based on personal preference as far as I can tell.

Also, since you indicated that you have a small(ish) room why not just build a 2 player CP?  You could still include the spinner and even add a trackball in the middle and no one will feel cramped playing.  Based on a little experience and just hanging around these boards long enough, 4P control panels rarely seem to be used enough (how often will you have 4 people around available to play?) and there aren't enough 4P games to justify building one (I can only think of TMNT, The Simpsons, X-Men, Gauntlet and NBA Jam as games that are worth playing).  Of course all of this is just MHO and you should build what suits your needs first and foremost...

[SavannahLion]

If space is an issue and you're really boning for a 4P CP for those ocassions when you want to play 4P games, why not build a sort of modular panel?

You have your center, permanent, piece which holds all the controls for 1 & 2 and spinner and whatever. 3 & 4 would be addon "wings" that could be attached when needed and stored away when its not.

The panel could have recepters to accept an exposed frame from the modular panels. Or you could utilize a matching groove system where gravity would keep the panels in place.

Storage would be obvious with a front door if you drop the coin door.

[vidmouse]

You know, someone mentioned the modular thing to me before but I couldn't figure out how to make the wiring work -- then reading your post I thought about some quick-disconnect plugs, probably need a big honkin 12-pin to do it right (really 11 pin but they don't make those I think).

I like the idea of a gravity hang but I think it would snag on stuff when the modules aren't in place.  Can't say it won't happen, I have kids running all around the place.

The spinner I had shown is probably going to be bigger than the real thing; since I'm hacking an old mouse to do it from scratch I'm hoping the footprint isnt' that big.  Also, most of it will be "below board" and my spinner dial is only about 1.8" diameter.  I'm concerned about the placement too... "luckily" I screwed up an old control panel so I can use that to prototype the whole thing first.

I have yet to see someone do 4p in a 36" wide panel like this... I'm willing to proto with my screwy panel and post photos when done...  will take about a week or so, with luck.

Thanks for all the good tips guys.  In the end I may go down to 3 player (check my avatar---gotta play Rampage!)

[vidmouse]

I gave this some more thought last night (and see all my other 4p review posts)... I had redesigned my panel to be 45" (got more room space by moving furniture) but then I got the mockup on my bare cab it looked very weird, didn't like it.

Thinking about it a bit more, I think SavanahLions' idea might be my best bet.
Will see if I can work on designs today and post images for review...  I thought
of a way to avoid the "snags" I was worried about w/ my particular cab.

[vidmouse]

Ok, got the control panel jpg for review... the two side "wings" are detachable through a hook-and lock mechanism.  Comments?

[FrizzleFried]

Ok, got the control panel jpg for review... the two side "wings" are detachable through a hook-and lock mechanism.  Comments?

Don't angle your sticks...you WILL regret it.   You can keep the button orientation on an angle but set each joystick as you did 1 and 2 player...trust me on this one.

[vidmouse]

Yeah, I thought about that... there's actually a version 1 of this file (not posted) where they're straight.  I thought maybe I could use them for Smash TV and so on.
However, when I printed off a mockup life-size, I noticed that with them straight I have P3/P1 and P2/P4 pretty close again, shoulder-to-shoulder. 

I can probably make them straight but I will have to widen the wings to do it I think.

What's the desired spacing when you have two players side-by-side?  Do I have to make it as wide as my P1/P2 spacing here?

[suits00]

yes!!!

[unclet]

It would be awesome if you could simply flip the side wings up/down instead of having to attach/detach them.   Is there a way to keep the wings attached all the time but let them fold down then under the control panel box somehow?

PS:  4-player control panels are not just used for 4 players.  There are 2-player games which require each player to use two joysticks

[DaveMMR]

PS:  4-player control panels are not just used for 4 players.  There are 2-player games which require each player to use two joysticks

But wouldn't you have to place the sticks closer together than comfortable to use the two-stick, 2-player game setup?   Besides, there's only 3 I could think of off the top of my head, one of which requires two 4-ways each player.

I agree that you should never angle sticks.   You can have the sticks in the same location, just north should be towards monitor always.  (IIRC that's the way Gauntlet was laid out - I do not think there was "Direction" change in the sticks at all).

[vidmouse]

Tabling the angled vs straight discussion for another post...

I looked at how to mount the wing boxes (not sure what else to call them)... what do you think of using flush mount hangers?  The ones I was able to find were about 1 3/4" on a side.  (see pic).  I'm thinking maybe two per box, plus a snap lock or two (2nd pic) similar to what's used on footlockers

[unclet]

I do not believe the joysticks need to be closer together for two joystick games, however, the PLayer3/4 joysticks should obviously not be rotated at all if you intend to play two-joystick games since it would be impossible to move them correctly as required.

[vidmouse]

Yeah, I realized it after I left my last post on that... I kept thinking "8-way joystick" but forgot that 4 of the directions come from combinations of up/down/left/right only... so remapping keys wouldn't work (not with my joys anyway).

ANother possibility, could make multiple sets of "wings" here, add-on modules as I need them.

[Zebidee]

Vidmouse, you have my support for angled joysticks.  But I also agree with posters who say that the player must be facing the screen.

The angled joysticks do work if you have them mounted on wings, with P3 & P4 looking inwards like you have suggested  in your later designs, because P3 & P4 are a little further out, looking in.  I have this arrangement on my winged four player cabinet with a 25" monitor, and having P3&P4 angled in really works.  It feels natural.  However, putting them straight might be better if you had a larger control panel or a larger monitor.

[vidmouse]

It seems like I've been all over this debate(s) for a couple of months:

4p vs 2p (do you really use all 4? -- well, yes, that's the dream, right?
                and, well, no, not all the time)

angled vs straight:  definitely on my 36" test panel it wouldnt work
               straight.  As it is, 4p's are shoulder-to-shoulder and having
               the test panel really feel that out for me made me rethink
               to the modular design.
               Straight would only work on this panel if it were like
               Smash tv, 4 joys but only 2 players.
               (and yeah I love Smash TV)

 My thoughts, straight only works if you have the room for it.
    (as in equal 3p/1p spacing as 1p/2p spacing, 2p/4p spacing)
    I'll have to remeasure, I might...

I have a similar, 27" tv that I'm using -- so sizewise I'm probably
not too far off Zeb.  However I'm also trying to fit a trackball and
spinner in there (at least the trackball)  so I'll probalby stick with
the modular idea (besides it's an interesting challenge) for now.

Did some more work today... figured out how to wire my tv
power button to an admin pushbutton, as well as the PC,
and hooked up the marquee fluorescent light.  Pictures to come
on my site....

On the other hand, check out this one that one a "Mamey" award
for control panel... angled, and yet I think his P1/P3 spacing is still too close...
but I'm a lefty P1 and I'm sure my elbow would jab P3 multiple times (heh, put people you don't like there)
http://www.mameworld.net/massive/NEWMAMEY/controls.htm

[Zebidee]

27" screen sounds good for 4-player, and angled joys do work on the right cabs.  Go for it, vidmouse.

Do you need a separate power switch for the TV?  Won't it come on automatically?  There are special master/slave power boards that can help here.

Perhaps you want an external volume control knob ..... ?  Easy to wire up for < $5 ...........  It is a must for all of my cabs now, especially as I use them to play music & movies too.  Usually I hide it somewhere easily accessible but out of sight.  Maybe this is worth discussing in a new thread ......   

[vidmouse]

I needed the separate power switch because I don't have one of those smart powerstrips, just a free hand-me down I had laying around.  I'll need another for the PC anyway, and I had the buttons, no big deal.

I'm actually not piping sound through the tv, just running it to my computer speakers setup so that I can have it come out of the speaker panel.  My subwoofer will rest in the base of the cab and it comes with a remote that can be run to the keyboard drawer to control volume and bass, plus a headphone jack.

[Zebidee]

Cool.  Sounds like you have your sound stuff all at hand.

In Australia where I am, there is a fantastic master/slave power board (powerstrip in US) for only $20 at Bunnings Hardware!  Branded "Click", but says on the back "Made in China for the Mistral Group of companies...www.mistral.com.au".  Can't help but wonder if there is an equivalent in your local hardware store, wherever you happen to be.

I'm not talking about the TV sound, but putting a potentiometer on the line out from the PC to your amp.  It takes up as much space as a button, but you can have it discreetly hidden away. You couldn't see mine in the photo before, because it is behind the left wing,  but easy for P1 to access with left hand.  I even made it black to blend in.  I have the volume control wiring and mounting down pat now, but am still trying to work out how to wire a phono plug (headset jack) correctly.  The guy at the electronics store gave me bum advice about both.  I worked the volume out anyway, but gave up on the phono plug.  Need to find a guru.  But hey, you can buy a USB headset now and a USB port is dead easy.

[vidmouse]

Cool.  I don't think I will need the potentiometer because I have the wired remote to my amp (which I guess IS a potentiometer, I just didn't have to make it from scratch).

Heh, turns out I was wrong about my TV... should've tested it before.  Apparently when it loses power (say if I shut off the main power strip) it will still come back on and at the same channel (or Input-1) as it was when it lost power.  I'm not sure if there's a  time limit on it or not though.  Oh well.. wiring up the power button was still cool.

I did some work on my TV bezel today... couldn't figure it out until I tried playing around with some scrap MDF.  Turns out that some of the extra pieces I had leftover from when I made the cab were the perfect size -- I really didn't have to cut hardly anything, just make a few angled cuts so that they would butt up against the speaker panel.  I really like how it turned out.  Still have to add plexiglass -- probably will go for tinted, I like how that looks on some other people's cabs.

I also took a playbreak and hooked up my prototype to my cab... everything still works.  The PC and equipment is what will go into the cab (at least until I get a more powerful PC probably next year) sans control panel box.  Man, it was great to play, now I'm even more motivated to finish...

[Zebidee]

Guess that my point about the potentiometer & USB port is that if you have these two things, then you don't need a keyboard drawer .... !  Maybe I just don't like keyboard drawers. 

Your TV should stay like that, so don't worry.  Maybe you could adapt/redirect the switch to your PC, so that you can turn it on/off without turning the monitor/TV off?

Go for real glass - it looks better.  Tinting can influence your colours.  Real arcade operators only use tinted glass for cabinets that are intended for outside use (tinting cuts glare).

On the weekend I played AD&D-Shadows over Mystara on my four-play cab with four people (me+three) and P3/P4 joysticks angled.  I played P4.  It was great fun!  We had to be dragged away ....

[vidmouse]

In my case I guess I'm a proponent of keyboard drawers -- at least it's a cool thing for me b/c I couldn't figure out how to do it until I did my tiny cardboard model.

Yeah, I still need a switch to turn on/off the PC.  I might still add the button for the tv, we'll see.  All I know is I'm not getting into my TV again just to _remove_ the wires I added.

I thought tinting was also used to help hide some of the imperfections/guts of the machine that might show otherwise.  Now in my case now with my new bezel I don't think that's much of a problem but I was still thinking of going that way.  One thing I thought of was using the same stuff you can get to tint your windows in cars; I believe it's removeable so if I don't like it it can come off.

My son and I love playing ddsom.. .  he always uses up his magic too soon though.  For me this was part of the whole reason for wanting 4-players, even if two of them are modular.  My other 3+ multiplayer favorites:

TMNT (1 and 2 both)
Gauntlet
X-Men (and with my USB ports and gamepads I think I can even make 6 players work)
Rampage (of course)
D&D Tower of Doom
Warriors of Fate
Growl
Cadillac's and Dinosaurs
Knights of the Round
King of Dragons

That's the immediate list I can think of...  If there's a 3p/4p shump I can't think of it.

If you liked D&D, have you tried Dungeon Magic?

[Zebidee]

Tinting isn't really the answer.  A good bezel and generally making everything black seems to do the job.

In my Galaxy 4P cab, I didn't even have a bezel until recently (around 6 months), because the front of the TV frame was a dark grey and barely visible anyway (I left the front on, but decased the rest with a screwdriver and a tile nibbling tool!).  I did a simple flat bezel recently out of cardboard, and it looks fantastic - because everything is black .... you don't notice anything else.

Thing about black is that it doesn't reflect light.  So if all is black, nothing shows up anyway.  The tinting doesn't really add to that - if there is a white speck, you will see it anyway.  Believe me, I have pondered this before and I even asked an arcade industry veteran friend about it once.  And I am on my fourth Arcade Games cab now ....

Haven't played Dungeon Magic yet .... unfortunately I seem to spend much much more time on development than on playing .... but then, I have learned a hell of a lot from this hobby ...

Just wanted to say that Cadillacs & Dinos is one of my favourite games too.  I'll have to check out "warriors of fate" and "growl". Trying to assemble a list of 3P and 4P games for MameWAH ....

[vidmouse]

Post a picture of your Galaxy cab.

I believe you on the tint thing... thanks.  That'll actually save me some money too.
As I said, I'm realy happy with how my bezel came out... I ALMOST don't need to put
a screen on it but I will.

I liked Warriors of Fate better than Growl.

Somewhere else I found this list of 3p/4p games, it seems pretty complete:

2 On 2 Open Ice Challenge (rev 1.21)
Alien Storm
Alien vs. Predator (US 940520)
Arabian Fight
Arabian Magic (US)
Armored Warriors (US 941024)
Atari Football (4 players)
Atari Soccer
Barricade
Battle Circuit (Asia 970319)
Battle Toads
Blazing Tornado
Bomber Man World (World)
Brute Force
Bucky O'Hare (US version UA)
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs (US 930201)
Cadillacs Kyouryuu-Shinseiki (Japan 930201)
Captain America and The Avengers (US Rev 1.9)
Captain Commando (US 910928)
Car Polo
Checkmate
Comotion
Cops'n Robbers
Crime Fighters (US 4 players)
Crypt Killer (ver. UAA)
Danny Sullivan's Indy Heat
Dark Adventure
Dead Connection (World)
Desert Assault (US)
Double Dragon 3 - The Rosetta Stone (US)
Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara (US 960619)
Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom (US 940125)
Dunk Mania (DM1/VER.C)
Dynablaster (World)
Euro Champ '92 (World)
Exvania (Japan)
Face Off (Japan)
Football Champ (World)
Gauntlet
Gauntlet II
GI Joe (US)
Golden Axe: The Revenge of Death Adder (US)
Growl (US)
Hard Dunk (World)
Hat Trick Hero (Japan)
Hat Trick Hero '95 (US)
Heated Barrel (US)
High Impact Football (rev LA3 12/27/90)
Hit Me
Hit the Ice (US)
Hook (US)
Hot Rod (turbo 3 player)
Hyper Sports Special (Japan)
Ironman Stewart's Super Off-Road
Ironman Stewart's Super Off-Road Track Pack
John Elway's Team Quarterback
Judge Dredd (rev LA1, prototype)
Karate Blazers (US)
Knights of the Round (US 911127)
Knuckle Heads (World)
Mercs (US 900302)
Metamorphic Force (US ver UAA)
Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (Set 2)
Muscle Bomber - The Body Explosion (Japan 930713)
Muscle Bomber Duo - Heat Up Warriors (Japan 931206)
Muscle Bomber Duo - Ultimate Team Battle (World 931206)
Mystic Warriors (US ver UAA)
NBA Hangtime (rev L1.1 04/16/96)
NBA Jam (rev 2.00 02/10/93)
NBA Jam TE (rev 4.0 03/23/94)
NBA Maximum Hangtime (rev 1.0 11/8/96)
Nettou! Gekitou! Quiztou!! (Japan)
NFL Blitz 2000
NFL Blitz '99
Numan Athletics (World)
Oriental Legend / Xi Yo Gi Shi Re Zuang (ver. 126)
Pigout
Pit Fighter (rev 3)
Power Drive
Powered Gear: Strategic Variant Armor Equipment (Japan 941024)
Punk Shot (US 4 Players)
Quartet
Racin' Force   IS THIS RIGHT? 8 PLAYER?
Rampage (revision 2)
Rampage: World Tour (rev 1.1)
Rampart (Trackball)
Rim Rockin' Basketball (V1.2)
Ring Rage (US)
Run and Gun (US ver. UBA 1993 10.
Run and Gun 2 (ver UAA)
Runark (Japan)
Rushing Heroes (ver UAB)
Sangokushi II (Asia 921005)
Saturday Night Slam Masters (US 930713)
Senjou no Ookami II (Japan 900302)
Silent Dragon (World)
Snow Bros. 2 - With New Elves / Otenki Paradise
Spider-Man: The Videogame (US)
Sprint 4 (set 1)
Star Guards
Sunset Riders (US 4 Players ver. UDA)
Super Cup Finals (World)
Super High Impact (rev LA1 09/30/91)
Super Sprint (rev 1)
Tecmo Bowl (World?)
Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles (UK 4 Players)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Turtles in Time (US 4 Players ver. UAA)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (US 4 Players)
Tenchi wo Kurau II - Sekiheki no Tatakai (Japan 921031)
The Combatribes (US)
The King of Dragons (US 910910)
The Main Event (4 Players ver. Y)
The Ninja Kids (World)
The Simpsons (4 Players) (KLOV says it requires a pedal?)
The Three Stooges In Brides Is Brides
TouchDown Fever
TouchDown Fever 2
Tournament Cyberball 2072 (rev 1)
Tournament Table (set 1)
Trog (prototype, rev 4.00 07/27/90)
Turbo Force
Undercover Cops (World)
Vendetta (World 4 Players ver. R)
Violent Storm (US ver UAB)
Vs. Tennis
Warlords
Warriors of Fate (US 921031)
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey
Wheel Of Fortune
Wild West C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa (US version UA)
World Soccer Finals
WWF WrestleFest (US)
Xenophobe
X-Men (US 4 Players)

[Zebidee]

Here's a favourite photo ...  

There are some other photos of this cab on this thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66297.msg670791#msg670791

I'm writing a web page up on it at the moment ... it is going to be sold sometime soon as I am moving OS soon and need to lower my cab count ,   so if anyone lives near Canberra and need a fantastic cab then PM me ....

[vidmouse]

Cool man.  I like how your CP looks like it is molded around your cab, something I didn't do with mine.  The monitor class almost looks smoked but I guess that's all the black paint from your bezel.  Good luck selling it.

BTW, looking at that thread you posted, I can think of a couple of reasons why I'd want multiple USB ports on my cab (although they're few and far between)

1)  Hook up multiple controllers (say, if I'm using my dance pad in combination with a joypad to control some games in a unique fashion -- I actually tried this with Joust and it made it a lot more challenging)

2)  Hook up 2 additional gamepads for 6-player Xmen (don't know if this would actually work but I don't see why not; and it just sounds cool)

3)  Hook up an external USB drive with extra games and extra controllers for the above-mentioned reasons.


I'll admit these are somewhat weak reasons.  Probably the only one I'd ever do is the dancepad/controller one, and that's just messing around with it.

I'm exploring more options with that dancepad... have to see how Smash TV works with it (using the dancepad to control movement and the CP joystick to control firing).  I can tell you it made Pac Man that much more challenging.

[Zebidee]

Yeah, monitor glass doesn't need to be tinted unless glare is an issue.  If you really want it, get a new piece cut professionally.  only costs about $30-$40 dollars Aust.

Gonna confess that this is the original control panel!  It is in pretty good condition (considering), and you certainly can't see any marks except by close inspection.  It is is good nick, but I guess i didn't pay a small price for it either.  I installed the extra joysticks and all.  And obviously the USB port. 

But yeah, you can follow the same principle for your panel.  Black background to panel, black t-moulding, black down front too.  There is a piano hinge to allow CP to flip up towards the user (for maintenance).  Good design, but isn't removable & too wide so it won't fit in my house.  Lives in garage.

For me, the biggest reason for a USB port is somewhere to plug in a keyboard/mouse.  Everything else is just gravy.  If you have a USB port there is no need for keyboard drawers .... 

And with an ergo trackball/marble mouse you don't need a flat surface to move it on.....!

[vidmouse]

Yeah, I noticed that about your CP... I kinda like the large black "tongue" (don't know what else to call it) -- makes it distinctive.

I ended up getting plexiglass (non tinted) for my glass because it was easier/cheaper to do it that way and have them cut for my marquee glass at the same time.  Right now I'm planning to "picture-frame" mount it vs drilling through it so if I get real glass later I can always swap.

I hinged my CP to flip up the same way, although I'm not using a piano hinge.

My cab would probably fit through the doors in my house, but no way did I feel like trying to lift it as such... I ended up doing most of the woodwork in the garage, then moved it in pieces down to the basement where final assembly is taking place).

Originally I thought about getting a computer trackball but then I found a Happs on sale on Ebay that I snapped up for $20... plan to hack it via an old ball-mouse but haven't gotten around to it yet... still playing "cut the speaker hole" with my router. 

[Zebidee]

Ah, I love the ubiquitous basement!  I wish I had one ... but then, I have a garage ...

Every "man" needs his "shed", so it is said, and I couldn't agree more.

The tonuge wold be pretty easy to replicate, just a layer of the black vinyl & t molding.

I use the trackball as my preferred mouse, rather than for gaming.  These are perfect for mame cabs, as there is no surface required.  I actually use this kind of mouse with my normal office PCs too.

I am prone to carpal tunnel syndrome, and had the operation last year.  That's why I started to use the trackball mouse, and I incidentally found it was perfect for cabs.  I own four!

Ironically, I got into making mame cabs because I wanted a more ergonomic option for my gaming addiction than a PC keyboard!  Pushing big joysticks and smacking large buttons is much easier.  Since then I have found arcade game development to be a natural convergence of my various skills and interests, and the rest is history ....

BTW, I had to carry that Sony 27" PVM (47kgs!!!!!) only 6 weeks or so after having my second wrist-cutting operation, so I thought I was pretty damn good to get it in the house. 

[vidmouse]

I grew up in a single story house, no basement; when we bought our house here I knew I wanted 2-story, full basement. It was unfinished but we finished 1/2 of it a couple of years back, and it has been one of the best things we've ever done.  3/4 of the 1/2 that we finished (I guess that makes 3/8 of the total basement?  ) became the theater/game room.  I have a cheap 32" tv that I hooked up a DVD/surround system to -- (and also my extra PC, for emulated console gaming).  The basement "L-shape's" into the game room section with a full pool table I got off somebody at work for $100USD (and hence my space restrictions for my cab), darts, and the cab.

Not exactly a "shed" but something to be proud of.  The only thing that's not quite right is that I will probably only be able to fit my one cab in there, ever.  Maybe someday I'll think about ditching my pool table to make room for more cabs but that isn't in the plans now.

Sorry to hear about your carpal tunnel... I think you were part of the thread where I talked about tearing my shoulder rotator cuff carrying in my Sony 27" (small world).  Ah, the pains we go through for our arcade passions.  No carpal tunnel for me yet, but I can't say I've been taking precautions against it either -- just lucky.   

[Zebidee]

No carpal tunnel for me yet, but I can't say I've been taking precautions against it either -- just lucky.   

Maybe you are just younger ...?    I've done a lot of office/writing/computing/accounting work which is the main reason for Carpal tunnel syndrome, though I guess that over 30 years of computer gaming addiction doesn't help things either.

Carpal tunnel sucks 'cos it partly disables you, but many people either think its a put-on 'cos they can't "see" it, or simply don't understand how much pain you can go through doing very normal things.  Using Mame as an example, I can't really play certain games like shooters (eg 1942 ....).  But then Galaga is OK because I get short breaks between waves of bugs, although I still like to pause at about 100,000 - 150,000 points or so to give my hands a rest.  But one doesn't want to take breaks.  In time pilot, an old fave, I get tired wrists after about 200,000 points and start to make silly mistakes if I don't take a short break.  But then I can lose my "mojo" if I take a break  .... ah well.

Many congratulations on your house!  Especially your "shed" (er, basement).  Something to be very proud of. Don't lose the pool table though, that is very cool.  Everyone plays pool, but not everyone gets into arcade cabs (yes, I said that on this forum!).

Perhaps you can put a tastefully or appropriately designed cab into the main house, but designed primarily for use as a media player and jukebox?  I've done that with mine.  In addition to the 4player in the shed, I also have a two player in the house with one of those 27" Sony PVMs decased and mounted as a monitor.  You can run a video cable from the back of a cab out to another normal Sony 27" PVM for my little kids to play all those great kids games that came out in the 90's, and run real sweet on 640x480!  They look fantastic!  You could also design the cab so that you can easily output the sound to your stereo speakers.  Play your favourite music and DVDs on it (yes! it works if the screen is mostly upright).

Building/rennovating/extending was an experience I went through with my first wife, and will soon go through again with my current.  I've got to say, the practical skills gained from this have been of great advantage to my mame cabs!  And the skills I've learned from mame cabs is going to be useful in building my second house.  Just got to look after my hands.

However, I'd be crazy to discount the effect of working all day in the office and then on the house until midnight, raising little kids and keeping the wife happy on my hands.  Guess I do too much ....   

[vidmouse]

Did a little more work on the cab this weekend... the photo is a little paint-retouching to give you and idea of what it should look like.  This is "prototype 2" -- not the final CP b/c players 1 and 2 are too close together, just wanted to see what it would be like since I recessed the joysticks.  The marquee isn't final either -- Mamemarquees is printing me a corrected version with all-blue lightning and different font sizes (larger "Arcadia", smaller "2007").
I painted-out the p3 and p4 joystick holes and painted -in the blue horizontal CP trim -- the vertical trim is all real though.
The key drawer isn't quite right... now I see why you hate them.  But I'm commited now, will most likely fix it in a few weekends, need a break now.  Also need to mount the speakers still.
I decided to just drill through the plexi and for the most part it turned out ok... I did snap off the lower left corner b/c I pushed too hard/too fast but you really can't see it w/ the CP box in place.  You were right about not smoking it, too... looks awesome, the photo doesn't do it justice.

Now I just need to figure out why MameWAH isn't showing my screenshots...

[Zebidee]

Your keyboard is cool - I can see that it is designed to be out of sight when not in use, and it is handy.  I think that the draw really does need to be well hidden.  But when you weigh up the effort of making a tidy keyboard drawer and hiding it, vs the effort involved for a USB port/hub, it doesn't make so much sense.

keyboards are a "messy" aspect of Mame cabs - they are incongruous with a traditional arcade cab, and they yell "Hey, I'm really a PC!" to any observer.  And it wasn't practical for me.  So I figured why not make a "feature" out of a USB port instead.  Changes a person's first thought from "errrr, it has a keyboard?" to "Wow, it even has USB ports!"

Often the simplest thing is what looks best.

BTW, I love your marquee.

[vidmouse]

The keydrawer photo isn't showing the front panel or hardware... in the final version it will look more like a drawer that you may not even notice until you pull it out.  With the amount of different emulators/pc games I'm running (and special keys, etc) needed, it made some sense.

I agree that I would hate a "visible" keyboard because of how it would take away from the look-and-feel of a real arcade machine.  As it is, I'm regretting not doing a coin door right now, but I think that'll be a next-year project add-on.

Thanks, I agree the marquee does look cool but there's something about getting exactly what you orderred.  I'm assuming Scott won't want it back (don't know what he'd use it for) so hopefully I can keep both and mix n'match.  The wallpaper on-screen is actually my own mock-up that I sent to clarify the order.

[Zebidee]

Vidmouse, I don't regret pulling two coin mechs out so far.  One got me $20 on ebay.  Look at what I did with this lovely pre-cut space in a cab door after I pulled the coin mech out.

I blacked the exposed edge near the panel after the photo was taken, and a few other tidy-ups, but this is basically how it looks and works.  The panel is at knee level, and the DVD drive is very handy for turning the cab into a media centre.  Ripping has never been easier or more fun!

[vidmouse]

What are the three buttons/dials for?

Having an exposed rom drive would go a long way to extending my software playability (given some of my games require the CD to be in the drive).  Check out the post I made today on Star Wars Racer -- can't believe how well that worked.

I'm wondering what other games would be good on a 640x480 tv screen on my cab.
I'm probably going to try Mechwarrior 3 or Crimson Skies next... (saw these in an arcade
too)

[Zebidee]

Controls:

- the left, black button is an admin button (=shift + enter);
- the central knob is a volume control (potentiometer); and
- the right, blue button is for pause.

When I originally designed this so I could put a headphone jack where the blue button is, but it proved to be too complicated at the time so I replaced it with a pause button.

In terms of pure PC games, so far I have put on Doom, virtua tennis, and a couple of flight simulators.  I could put on many more if I had the time.  Alone in the Dark is a good candidate, I think.  So are all the DooM-ish games like Heretic, Duke 3D etc.

My kids play all those 90's kids games (eg Grandma & Me, etc etc) that run under 640x480.  I run a cable from the back of the PC in the cab to a spare 27" Sony PVM.  They love it!

[vidmouse]

My kids play TMNT and shooters.  Guess I'll reap what
I sow later 

I used to be able to play Doom for hours but nowadays
it and other FPS games make me nauseous.  I think it's
a form of motion sickness.  I seem to do alright w/
racing games and Mechwarrior, but those have a cockpit
(sort of) so maybe that's the difference.

BTW, Mechwarrior 3 runs GREAT on my cab, just need to
remap a few more buttons to keep my butt from getting
kicked.

I also tried Spider-Man (not the movie version but the similar
one that came out before) and it works... heh, I'm equally
bad at the controls whether I'm using a keyboard, gamepad
or my arcade controller.

[Zebidee]

My kids are too little for "fighting games", but they are little girls so we'll see.

I used to play DooM a lot - in fact, I was crowned "Fragmaster" in 1995, and have a little trophy somewhere.  I also did a lot of DooM deathmatch (and single play) level editing, and some of my levels were very popular back then.  In fact, you can find them on shovelware CDs full of modded doom levels.  When I set up DoomM on my cab, I couldn't find my old backups so I downloaded them instead!

Motion sickness is common in DooM players.  I never got it, but then I'm probably sick already .   I always took regular breaks in DM though (I didn't like playing more than about 20minutes in a stretch - built up too much stress/adrenaline).

Believe it or not, playing DooM really expanded my sense of physical awareness.  After DooM, I became much more aware of where things were BEHIND me, when I couldn't see them.

I have a desk and cupboards littered with old PC games.  I am one of those people who likes to keep them instead of letting them go to the secondhand store.

I'm looking forward to getting mechwarrior setup, and a few more when I have the chance.  I never got into Mech before, so could be a chance to make up lost time.  Did you set it up under Mamewah?

[vidmouse]

I'm looking forward to getting mechwarrior setup, and a few more when I have the chance.  I never got into Mech before, so could be a chance to make up lost time.  Did you set it up under Mamewah?

No, but that's a good thought if you can do it.
Shoot, now I wish I hadn't sold off my copy of Earthsiege, that was a low-res
Mech kinda game, but I bet it would rock under my cab (everything else I seem
to put on there does  ).

I guess part of using MAMEWah is to despoil the fact that there's a pc in there, but
for the games I mentioned (and on the Star Wars thread) I think having to
put the CD in to run the game would do that too...

That's cool that you built your own Doom levels.  I never had the patience (back then)
I did load up a few nice conversions back in the day .. best one I ever tried
was the Aliens TC, that stayed with me even more than the orignal Doom.

[Zebidee]

I have picked up some games from garage sales ("yard sales") , and literally just paid like $20-25 for about 50 games.  Sometimes it is good just to have it.  But then, I still have my AD&D books and haven't played that in over 15 years.  Apparently they are starting to be worth serious money now.

Regarding MameWAH and the CD, I generally use Daemon Tools to mount CD images as a virtual drive(eg F:).  You can either rip your own disc using your favourite software to some kind of image (eg iso, bin/cue, nrg) , or even just download it from somewhere.

Daemon Tools can mount and unmount virtual CD (and DVD?) drives from the command line, so it is easy to load them in MameWAH with pre- and post- emulator  command lines.  No mess, no fuss, no CD.

I'm thinking about setting up a MameWAH menu to help my kids choose their favourite windows games, using Daemon Tools extensively.  Trouble is, I'd have to use game-by-game bat files as well.

Regarding DooM editing,  I liked to evoke a feeling in the player .... and I liked to keep players on their toes.  Back then it was one of the earliest 3D game environments we had to play in (OK, still pseudo 3D only), so I got into it.  I saw a lot of shoddy levels, so was anal about making both the look and the gameplay just right. 

One of my more famous DM levels, NIGHT2-0.WAD, was essentially a large arena with a few side-show corridors to some interesting ways of making players work for their weapons.  I kept people moving by putting a cyberdemon in the middle on a raised platform and in a cage, unable to escape but continuously pumping rockets at players randomly.  As a PC monster, it always shot where you were so as long as you kept moving, you were fine!  The demon's rockets also had the side-effect of occasionally claiming the person chasing you with a plasma rifle.  The entire sky texture was replaced with a night-sky starfield simulation, and a couple of the sounds were subtly changed/improved.  Oh, the nostalgia! But when I downloaded it I found that someone had tamed-down the cyberdemon to a baron, who is just such a pu$$y-monster that I felt ashamed .... I mean, I recorded a demo once of me killing one of these with just a chainsaw ...... and they take only 50 solid hits with a single-shotgun (yeah, I counted.....  ... and I also remember 

Alien_TC was very popular and I played it, but it came out when I was big into DM - so Death Match demanded my attention!  Meet the meat, so to speak.   Oh, the nostalgia ....

[vidmouse]

I have picked up some games from garage sales ("yard sales") , and literally just paid like $20-25 for about 50 games.  Sometimes it is good just to have it.  But then, I still have my AD&D books and haven't played that in over 15 years.  Apparently they are starting to be worth serious money now.

I picked up a DM guide awhile back but around here, it wasn't that great of a deal.  I seem to find a lot of them at Half Price Bookstores or used bookstores.

Thought about drive mounting but I think my next step is to install a larger hard drive if I want to load in (mounted or not) games that take up more space than MAME roms.  I pulled a 40GB out of my main desktop, it should suffice over the 8GB drive I have in the cab now.  Probably a Sunday night chore after the kids are asleep... 

[Zebidee]

I picked up a DM guide awhile back but around here, it wasn't that great of a deal.  I seem to find a lot of them at Half Price Bookstores or used bookstores.

??  Dunno, I'm just going on what someone who works in one of those bookstores said.  But they were talking about the original AD&D 2nd Ed. harcover books, not later versions or re-prints etc. ??

I pulled a 40GB out of my main desktop, it should suffice over the 8GB drive I have in the cab now.  Probably a Sunday night chore after the kids are asleep... 

Heh, good luck.  But if you are doing the work, why stop at 40GB?

Last night I finished fitted the "Big Red  Button" to turn the cab on and off automatically!  Now this cab is officially finished!  Check it out .....

http://scarvell.net/wiki/index.php?title=GALAXY_ARCADE_CLASSICS_GAMES_CABINET

[vidmouse]

I picked up a DM guide awhile back but around here, it wasn't that great of a deal.  I seem to find a lot of them at Half Price Bookstores or used bookstores.

??  Dunno, I'm just going on what someone who works in one of those bookstores said.  But they were talking about the original AD&D 2nd Ed. harcover books, not later versions or re-prints etc. ??

This is what I've got (see picture); not sure if it's 1st printing or not... picked it up for $2 at a library book sale.

Cool site on your Galaxy cab... are you trying to use it to sell your cab as  you said before?

As planned, I fiddled around with my hard drives last night... unfortunately the BIOS on my motherboard cannot recognize drives above 8.4GB -- which explains a lot, I've actually been using a 17GB drive all along and didn't realize it... I loaded Western Digital's EZ-BIOs onto my system and now it can recognize it, but I still had some problems in loading up Windows.  And, for some reason it will not recognize the 40GB at all.  Hmm... may have to retry that one now that I have the EZ BIOs loaded.  More fiddling to do...

Why stop at 40GB?  Because that's what I have, that's all.  Part of this for me is to see how much I can squeeze out of the parts I already have without having to buy too many new PC parts or cab parts, etc.  Admittedly I've probably already spent more in making my cab because I made it from scratch vs buying a husk but that was part of the challenge/fun.  Maybe at some point I'll upgrade the PC to a P4 but I'm not ready to give up on my PII yet.

[Zebidee]

Yes, I'm trying to sell the cabinet.  I'm planning on using this site as a reference.  I haven't advertised it anywhere specifically yet, but going to.  And if nobody wants to pay me enough for it I'll just keep it!  I've been pimping it up for selling, but now I love it even more!  It means I would have to ship it OS in a few months though.

Re the AD&D books, value is always whatever the two people agree.  I reckon that you got yourself a bargain.  I've seen amazing stuff at cheap prices, just helps to know the value to you. 

I couldn't see a pic?, but I mean the one with a huge demon on the front, with a flaming sword if I remember correctly.  It is in a box somewhere.  But mine is so dog-eared from playing at school that it is worth more sentimentally to me.  So no, you can't have it for $2!!    I still think (fantasise?) that I might play again one day (when I retire!)

[vidmouse]

I guess it would've helped if I'd remembered to attach the pic 

But you guessed it right anyway.  I think mine's in better shape
but who knows what print rev it is (forgot to look last night
when I got home)

I didn't ask before but I'm assuming by shipping OS you mean
OverSeas... ouch, that's gotta be expensive.  Maybe you can
dissassemble it?  I bet the weight is one thing but the bulkiness
may incur extra charges?  Assuming you don't sell it...

I think I know what I need to do to get my HDD working now...
had to load in the EZ BIOs so my system could recognize the
larger HDD and then manually used fdisk to set the DOS
partition, format c, then setup.  Found a Microsoft help note
that worked.  I'm not done yet, as I erroneously copied over
my startup disk to my HDD, but I'll try again tonight without
doing it.  I think something that was screwing me up before
was that I didn't restart the pc after partitioning and before
formatting, something it tells you to do but allows you to
not-do.

Don't know if that made sense... may post a procedure
later...

[Zebidee]

Sounds like you have solved the HD issues!  Yes, I remember that older PCs have problems with big HDs.

I'll be shipping half a container I think.  Anyway, it won't be the only thing I'll be shipping, so I'll manage   Besides, there'll probably be lots of people to play it in Thailand.  I have another Galaxy cabinet with an arcade monitor & Soul edge II, so I'll be shipping one at least.

[vidmouse]

   I ended up getting it working alright... but only half-and-half.
My 17GB drive works great and is now recognized as one C drive
(vs several 2GB drives).  My 40GB drive doesn't appear to work

I loaded Win98SE but now seem to have an issue with MAMEWah..
I've been using MAMEWash v97 and never had a problem but now
it doesn't want to show screenshots.

Loaded Rogue Squadron 3D on it for the 1st time... ooh, that was
sweet.

Heh, finding more and more of my old games now.

Oh, and my D&D player's handbook is 3rd printing, Jan 1979

[Zebidee]

Maybe you need to create two partitions for the 40GB drive with fdisk.  Older FAT32 systems might have problems at > 32GB, so try breaking it up into a 30GB & a 10GB, or similar.

Maybe your win98 system can't recognise .png files, or similar?  I think I've heard of this before, but my brain is fuzzy on this now.  You might need to install something like a codec pack to make it work.   But I could be off-track ...?

Are you doing a DOS install from Win98?

From the date of your AD&D(?) Player's Handbook, it appears to be the "older" one.  This is different to the Dungeon Master's Guide, but part of the basic set.  I recall that in at least one later print run of the Players Handbook (early-mid 80's) that the pages tended to fall out.  Check they are all there!   

You have given me some incentive to get more games up and running now too 

I also posted some files and a bit of a guide on how to set up the latest Daphne for cabinets, in the Software Forum.  So check it if this could be useful.

I'm about to list my Galaxy cab for sale (ebay + elsewhere), either tonight or tomorrow.

[vidmouse]

Not quite sure about the 40GB disk... everytime I connect it, my system can't even load from a startup disk in the floppy drive.  I'm wondering if there's either some kind of bus conflict or maybe even a weird power drop because it's all off the same tap.
I'm not in any hurry to figure it out, the 17GB is already twice what I was willing to live with before

No, the system can read png files via internet explorer.  I'm wondering if it's something in MAMEWAH that I didn't configure right.  I just ran a test on my WinXP desktop system as well, same version, and it didn't give me a screenshot either.  I'm wondering HOW I ever got it to work before now.  I konw I still have it running ok on my laptop, I might just try a brute-force copy over and see if it works.

My list of games I've tried that seem to work well or at least look cool on my cab:
Star Wars Episode I Racer
Star Wars Rogue Squadron 3d (apparently doesn't work under XP?)
Spider-Man (the orignal game not the movie version)
Mechwarrior 3
Battlezone 2

Gonna probably try European Air War and Anachronox next...

Good luck on your auction!

[Zebidee]

Have you tried the master/slave settings for the new HD?  The 17GB HD might need to be set as master, and the 40GB HD as slave.  Can you get to the BIOS?  You might need to tweak something there to recognise 2 drives as well.  Also, some HDs from different manufacturers can create conflicts.

I'd guess that your problem with screenshots is to do with your mamewah *.ini files.  Make sure your paths are right in your mame.ini etc.  Also, check the mamewah.ini, play with the settings eg "keep_image_aspect  0" and "safe_mode  1".  They are both either 1 or 0 (on or off), so try other combos too.  On a PII, you will probably want to set "refresh_images  0" to improve performance.

Make sure that you have the latest MameWAH too (ver 1.62b13a).

Those games would look cool on a cab .... do you run them from MameWAH?

next on my list will be Alone in the Dark .... although there is a 3DO version of it, the original PC game runs in something like 320x240 so would look F'kn great on an arcade monitor.  I liked the game on a keyboard back then, and my initial experiments with it in an arcade cab joystick/buttons were pretty good.

Looks like my ebay listing will happen tomorrow 'cos I fell asleep --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type--.  I don't want to list it at like midnight, because then it finishes at midnight as well.

[vidmouse]

I did think about master/slave settings.  My system has
two HDD controllers IDE0 and IDE1.  Here's things I've
tried:
> Hooking up just the 17GB to either IDE0 or IDE1 -- works
> Hooking up 17GB to IDE0 and 40GB to IDE1 both as master -- doesn't work
> Hooking up 40GB to IDE0 as master -- doesn't work
> Hooking up 17GB and 40GB to IDE0 with 17GB as master,
     40 GB as slave -- doesn't work

I haven't tried to partition the 40GB in my desktop where it used
to work... this would involve reinstalling it there, partitioning, then
uninstalling it and reinstalling it in my cab --- a lot of work b/c
my desktop is hard to get to b/c it's hidden in my desk.

I did finally get Mamewah to work with screenshots!   
Had to go BACK to version 0.963 to do it though.  Chalk up
another win for Saint's book, the CD from the book is where
I got it from.  Still have no idea why 0.97 didn't work but don't
care now...  I must've been using 0.963 before I reformatted
drives and just forgot about it.

One of these days I'll get around to fiddling with v 1.62... I think
I did at one point but didn't like it because of how it reacted
with my older system (? -- can't remember).

I don't run the PC games from MAMEwah (at least not yet), been
too busy fiddling w/ just getting them to load, getting MAMEwah
to show images, etc.   Alone in the Dark sounds like a great choice--heard
the game was spooky though--- reminds me that I also wanted
to try System Shock 2, another spooky one.  I know I said FPS's
can make me a little nauseous but I'm hoping w/ some like SS2
that the fact it's more RPG than FPS will help.

You can delay your listing on Ebay so that it will list at the
time/date you want it.  I usually aim for 10pm on Sunday's
but I'm not sure what an optimum time is.

[Zebidee]

Alone in the Dark sounds like a great choice--heard
the game was spooky though---

That's why I want to 'port it to my cab - perfect environment for a spooky game!

reminds me that I also wanted
to try System Shock 2, another spooky one.  I know I said FPS's
can make me a little nauseous but I'm hoping w/ some like SS2
that the fact it's more RPG than FPS will help.

Guess that is another I'll have to try eventually.  Now, this is why I built my cab on a Windows XP Pro platform - to get the most out of games compatibility.  It is pretty good with *most* old dos games, esp. if you use Dosbox, but sometimes little things can cause probs (eg sometimes sound problems).

If you want, you can also run Freedos which is pretty "mature" as an OS now and gives very good multi-OS choices  - so you can run win2000 and FreeDOS, for example.

You can delay your listing on Ebay so that it will list at the
time/date you want it.  I usually aim for 10pm on Sunday's
but I'm not sure what an optimum time is.

That's a great idea!  Thanks I might aim for  about 9pm though ....

[vidmouse]

Now, this is why I built my cab on a Windows XP Pro platform - to get the most out of games compatibility.  It is pretty good with *most* old dos games, esp. if you use Dosbox, but sometimes little things can cause probs (eg sometimes sound problems).

If you want, you can also run Freedos which is pretty "mature" as an OS now and gives very good multi-OS choices  - so you can run win2000 and FreeDOS, for example.

For awhile I was running a dual partition on my desktop... reserved about 8GB for Win98 and 30GB for WinXP stuff...  I really only needed WinXP for my photos and desktop applications vs gaming.  Haven't found a lot of games that DON'T work on Win98... for me, my system hardware has more constraints (processor speed, memory, video memory, etc).  My cab is exclusively Win98SE now...  originally I had Win98FE but upgraded when I did all this hard drive stuff.  Part of the reason for the upgrade?  I _think_  that some USB hubs require it, and I want to be able to mount a 4-port hub (similar to what you have on Galaxy) under my CP.  Haven't tested it yet though.

Been searching through old PC Gaming magazines for titles that came out around 1998 - 2002, about the heyday for my PII hardware... even the ones that got poor reviews might be worth a look on an arcade machine.  Some of them got poor reviews because the game didn't have "staying power" -- ie you couldn't play for hours and hours on-end.  But, on an arcade, I don't think that's much of a problem.  Some more titles I'm considering looking for:

Echelon (by Bethesda softworks) - a space sim/shoot em up
Pearl Harbor:  Defend the Fleet (this one got a real low score but I think the concept for an arcade shooter, taken at face value, is good)
MS Train Simulator

[Zebidee]

Well, on a PII win98 is probably a better choice as it is less demanding.

You know, I think it would be worthwhile making a list of PC (and other) games that port well to a cab environment.  Could be worth a new thread ...

I bought a couple of USB hubs with a transparent case, all in one row, because one I saw how simple they were, it was immediately obvious how to mount it.  I carefully drilled a hole in the hub case and put a screw in the middle.  Butted a piece of wood behind it to provide some resistance to the force when a device is plugged in, and made sure that there was no other rotational movement. 

Make sure that you use a powered USB hub if you are adding 4 ports.  You can probably get 5v from internal power, but 'safer' I guess to use the supplied PS for the hub.

My cab is on ebay now.  I don't want to violate any thread rules by posting a link in the wrong place, but search ebay.com.au for GALAXY MAME and ARCADE and see what you find.   

[vidmouse]

Kind of already started one, albeit that was not my original intent...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66711.0

I'm using a non-powered hub on my desktop now, but two of the devices
connected to it have their own power, so I guess that doesn't count.  Thanks
for the tip.

   Just got Asteroids to run at a decent speed finally by tuning the audio
sample rate down to 22050... don't know why it bogs down so much on my
system at 44100.  As a side effect I think Smash TV got faster too.

Huh... a search for galaxy mame turned up no results on ebay.com...
the domain for Australia is different, something like ebay.com.au
I doubt very many US buyers would even see this... I found it via a search
on Google.    You might want to contact Ebay if you are interested in
broadening your selling circle.

[Zebidee]

It is advertised on oz http://www.ebay.com.au, not US - I doubt US buyers would pay the freight 

Will see how it goes .....

[vidmouse]

No new cab work for me this weekend, just a little twiddling with CLRMAME and my romsets, trying to piece together my v0.53 rom collection.  I figured I'd start there any anything not available in v0.53 (like Marvel vs Capcom) I can try in a later version that "might" still work on my cab.  Learned some things new... like how Light Bringer (lightbr) is a Japanese version of Dungeon Magic

[Anubis_au]

Sorry, only just came across this thread, but it touched several things dear to me...

Doom: I got into Doom a bit in 1995 but Quake was the game for me. Also got into Descent a fair bit, but my heart is with Quake. Nowadays, I carry it on my USB stick, for a quick game when I can...

AD&D: I played with 1st and 2nd ed, but 3rd ed is where it kicks ass. 3.5rd ed is even better too, although I stopped playing by then.

[Zebidee]

Anubis, I bet you are about 30-35??

I played (& dungeon mastered) AD&D 1st-2nd edn extensively as an RPG fremework, but eventually learned how to loosen the straps a bit as a Dungeon Master.  I came up with a new spell-points system that everyone loved, critical hits, and a DM fudge-factor that worked for everything else.

3rd edition had similar ideas, but weren't as well implemented as my own home-rules.  My spell points system was better, my critical hits system was better, I'd even developed a rough secondary skills guide, although I did like this part of 3rd edition better.    I guess I found that 3rd edition tried to formalise many of my tried and tested home-brew hacks, or "DM fudge-factor", that I used to balance things out and add a bit of variety.

By the time 3rd edition came out, other game systems like ROlemaster and GURPS were starting to take hold.   And I really miss Traveller...... it always reminded me of something between Blakes 7, Star Wars and Aliens. 

People don't really seem to play pen'n'paper D&D anymore .... it is all driven by computers now.  Which is a shame, because at school my friends and I would disappear into a true fantasy world every lunchtime!  Kids don't seem to get that experience anymore.  Computers just can't cut it compared to the human imagination. 

[vidmouse]

35+, guilty here. 

Admit I never got into D&D paper as much... but from what I remember
as a a kid it was good. 

Ran across a friend at work who gets a D&D group together in Ohio
every once in awhile.  Too bad it's long distance for me...  as it is
we get together for online Diablo II sessions once a month (or
at least we used to...)

Most of what I see instead of pen and paper these days at comic book
stores and such are kids playing collectible card games or miniatures
... seems kind-of in-between to me (not as much work as pen and
paper but more social than computer games)

[Anubis_au]

30 (31 in July). Nice deducting Zebidee

I played pen n paper D&D thru my uni years, with the same DM and same set of characters for years. But then, one by one, people in the group could no longer afford the time. Some of my friends still play, 3.5ed. Still have my 3rd ed PH and DMG... somewhere.

But I agree, pen n paper forced the imagination, which is a good thing.

Onto different but related topics... did you see the D&D movie? How badly did it suck... and I remember at the time, so looking forward to it. Haven't been that disappoined since Batman Forever, Matrix 2 and Spider-Man 3.

[Zebidee]

... did you see the D&D movie? How badly did it suck...

yeah, I'm still trying to forget that one.  Thanks for reminding me   

Another tragedy was Xmen3 - that was such a piece of crap.

On the other hand, I was refreshingly surprised by the Baldurs Gate series (old now), because it really implemented the 2nd ed AD&D rules very well with few compromises made for the PC platform.  I also prefer an isometric view, and appreciate how you can make it as turn-based as you want (with auto-pause).

And the characters/story is cool too.

[vidmouse]

Did either of you see the D&D movie sequel?  (Wrath of Dragon God)
http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Wrath-Dragon-Widescreen/dp/B000B7QCG8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-9834320-7608418?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1180630290&sr=8-2

I'm with you on Baldur's Gate and on isometric games.  Did you try it with all the expansion packs?

After BG1 and 2 I couldn't really stomach going back to a single player in Neverwinter Nights until I tried playing Diablo and got it.

[Zebidee]

No, didn't know that anyone had the guts to make a second one

Yeah, I got seriously into BG1+2+exps, finishing it a few times.  Even played most of Icewind Dale.  I got moderately serious into BG modding, before real-life took over.  I like the fact that the BG engine can be used for creating custom AD&D adventures.

NWN seemed just like a FPS by comparison - I watched people play but wasn't overly grabbed.  I know there is a bit more but....  Having two little kids probably had something to do with it too.

I could enjoy watching a friend play Diablo for a while, but again it seemed too simplisitic to me.  Bit like Gauntlet on steroids.  As a seasoned DM known for having a devious mind  , I like to have more strategic and complicated elements to a game I guess. 

I must say that I like the mix of strategic and tactical elements in BG.  Another great game of similar qualities (but old) is UFO Enemy Unknown. 

[Anubis_au]

Did either of you see the D&D movie sequel?  (Wrath of Dragon God)

I think I got a Divx version from a LAN party, and flicked through it. All I remember is a beholder... but I wasn't about to invest two hours of my life into it after the first one.

Besides, there are already three perfectly good D&D movies... they are called The Lord Of The Rings.

ps if you are a LOTR fan, read George R R Martin's series, A Song of Fire and Ice.

[vidmouse]

I never got around to watching D&D2 but according to the reviews on Amazon it was better than 1 (not saying much).

If you liked the BG series and IWD series, did you pick up Planescape Torment?  As far as I know these were all the games made with Bioware's infinity engine.

I also liked Divine Divinity ..  a little more story than Diablo but still some hack n slash.

I would agree that Diablo isn't heavy RPG'ing but it is a good play, especially
if you get online with some friends who aren't local.  Even my buddy on a
wimpy 3300 kbps dial-up was able to join in.

[Zebidee]

You know, there are enough good games out there already to keep me happy until I'm an old man (ie, next month )

Diablo is one of those networked games I'd love to play when I get more time.

Looks like 'l have to look at PS Torment as well! I didn't understand before how closely it was related to BG.

After I've finished building my new house I look forward to having more time for the pleasures in life, including games and maybe even enough time for a occasional D&D session (or perhaps I am fantasising again).

LOTR rocks for ever, it is the biggest influence ever on D&D & RPGs, and Peter Jackson is a demi-god for finally doing the film and getting it 98% right.   

[vidmouse]

Make sure you include space for a D&D gameroom in your house, and then you will have to have an "excuse" to use it 

I really think you will like PS Torment.. it supposedly has an even better story than
BG1 -- I think it came out in '99, somewhere between BG1 and BG2 but other
than sharing the engine it's not related... ie not Forgotten Realms material.
I think Planescape was a similar worldset on paper as well...

While I agree that LOTR rocks, I'm always on the lookout for more
non-traditional fantasy fare... 

Anyone remember Krull?  (the movie not just the game)
Loved it when it came out but looking at it now it's dated.
Still a decent watch if a bit hokey.

Another topic...
Used MAME audio samples and artwork for the first time today, just
experimenting and playing around.  Oh my goodness, what a difference..!
I actually remember playing Space Invaders in the arcades and now
that I see the artwork, remember the planet background and so on.
Can't wait to load it into my cab...

[Zebidee]

I am a lucky man.

My new house will have plenty of room for D&D sessions

Even more importantly, my wife supports my arcade hobby.  And allows me the room for it.  She also knows that while my hobby keeps me busy, I won't have time for anything .... errrr ..... else. 

She can see that it makes me happy, and also that I can perhaps make a few $$ because I just sold my Galaxy Cab (sale #2).  Now I feel happy but also sad because I've invested a lotta love in that thing.  But then, a good craftsperson does ......

[vidmouse]

Congrats on selling your cab!  I can commiserate the good/bad feeling
but look at it this way, now you have an opportunity to build yet
another, better cab

Found some more PC-that-might-look-good-as-an-arcade games
to try:
Tomb Raider II
Metal Gear Solid
Virtual On Cyber Troopers
Guilty Gear X
Star Wars Battle for Naboo
Star Wars Starfighter (really, what's the difference between these two games??)

Found some of these at a used bookstore this weekend, and some over at
Home of the Underdogs... really a nice arcade download section there...