5 joys, 2 spinners, 1 trackball. What encoder(s)?

[mimic]

oh and about 37-40 pushbuttons, (about 6 or more will not be used at the same time)
4 joys 8-way (2 top fire)
1 dedicated 4-way
2 spinners
1 trackball
all on one cp. What encoder(s) should I use. I guess I'd prefer the screw in connectors. (what are the no solder ones? On pictures look like jumper pins on a motherboard)
I read about them on manufacturers web pages and it just very unclear to me what should I get, and whether ps/2 or usb?
Oh yeah, forgot that I'd like to add 2 light guns at some point. (Will light guns work with games that used analog controllers, like terminator?)

[leapinlew]

oh and about 37-40 pushbuttons, (about 6 or more will not be used at the same time)

What?

[bleugh]

Use multiple IPAC's, USB type too

[Fozzy The Bear]

(what are the no solder ones? On pictures look like jumper pins on a motherboard)
I read about them on manufacturers web pages and it just very unclear to me what should I get, and whether ps/2 or usb?

From the description, you're looking at the Groovy Game Gear "Keywiz Eco" ..... http://www.groovygamegear.com

The header pins you can see, are an IDE Header. You take an IDE Hard Drive cable and plug it on there. Cut the plug off the other end and split the cables out of the ribbon to connect your buttons and sticks to. The Keywiz does NOT come in a USB variety. USB has some severe limitations over the number of simultaneous key presses, whereas PS2 does not have that limitation.  You are clearly building a 4 player panel. So you should ideally go via PS2 to avoid such button conflicts.

Not sure why you need 5 sticks though.... This really sounds from your description like a bit of a Franken-panel. Newbies to this hobby often make the mistake of wanting everything on the one panel. This is not the ideal way to go. There were not may real arcade machines that were 4 player anyway, and you'll find that it's actually a bit of a waste of time, space and money because it will be very rare that you will play as 4 player.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Tiger-Heli]

Without knowing exactly what you are planning:

The 4-way can be combined with the P1 Joystick to get rid of 4 inputs (Note that both sticks will be active so people MIGHT cheat and use the 4-way to mess up P1 in two-player games.  You can rig a swith to deactivate the ground to the 4-way if you are concerned about this.)

No 4-player arcade games use more than 4-buttons.  4-player console games are better played with USB gamepads plugged into a front-mounted USB hub, IMHO.  This may get rid of more inputs.

Use can use shift functions for the admin buttons and not have buttons on your CP and not need as many inputs.

Factor in the above suggestions and you can get a more realistic idea of the number of inputs required.

For the spinners and trackball - there are basically two (three) options:

Opti-PAC - Supports two trackballs and up to 4 spinners - Auto-Switching means that your spinners will not interfere with the trackball and vice-versa.

Two Opti-Wiz's - Each supports one trackball and a spinner (3 axes).  You can either hook the spinners up to the Z-axis on each Opti-Wiz - in which case they will not conflict, but basically the spinners will only be useful in MAME, or hook the trackball to X and Y on one Opti-Wiz and the Spinners to X and Y on the second Opti-Wiz for greater compatibility,  they will fight over  the windows cursor, but MAME will split them out.  (Be sure to order with different USB device ID's if they will both be permanently plugged in and not on separate motherboard headers (USB port pairs).

Some trackballs and spinners have a built-in interface so this might eliminate one of both interface requirements.

Also, see http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/index.htm

USB has some severe limitations over the number of simultaneous key presses, whereas PS2 does not have that limitation.  You are clearly building a 4 player panel. So you should ideally go via PS2 to avoid such button conflicts.

Errrrm, no - not really.  USB has a limitation of something like 14 or 16 simultaneous key presses which PS/2 does not.  4 players pressing diagonals at the same time as each mashing two buttons comes close, but this is unlikely to happen often.

USB has some speed and through-put and packet-size limitations, but that's an "Andy vs. Randy"^TM debate for a different thread.

Generally, I recommend PS/2 for permanent installations and USB for something like a removable CP, but that is more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule.  If you really want as many inputs as you think you do, you will need an I-PAC/4, so either one will be available, and PS/2 is probably recommended.

The rest of Fozzy's advice is good.

[unclet]

You pretty much described my 4-player control panel exactly .....   

http://unclet.arcadecontrols.com/DadsArcade/DadsArcadeMain.html

I use the Hagstrom KE72 encoder ..... it lets you do tons of key mappings so you can very easily configure many other emulators as well.  The KE-72T model allows you to connect a trackball.    To connect my two spinners, I used simply hacked a couple of USB mice and connected them to a USB Hub.

If you are making a 4-player control you intend to keep around for a while, you might decide to also add pinball left/right flipper buttons and plunger button perhaps .....   maybe even some left/right/front nudge buttons as well .....

[Tiger-Heli]

I use the Hagstrom KE72 encoder ..... it lets you do tons of key mappings so you can very easily configure many other emulators as well.  The KE-72T model allows you to connect a trackball. 

That will work fine as well.

[mimic]

Not sure why you need 5 sticks though....You are clearly building a 4 player panel. 

Actually main purpose is to be 2 player 2 joystick setup. For games like smash tv or tank type of games (that's why 2 of them will have top fire.) I figured if I'm gonna have 4 joysticks total, why not be able to use them as 4 players as well. There might be some shoulder rubbing involved, but that remains to be seen.
5th joy will be dedicated to only 4 way.

No 4-player arcade games use more than 4-buttons. 

Actually I went through pictures of all panels in mame and I noticed at least 1 4-player, 5 button game.

oh and about 37-40 pushbuttons, (about 6 or more will not be used at the same time)

What?

Here is my setup that I plan
1joy + 7 pbs, 2nd joy with topfire + 4 pbs + player 2 same as player one = 24 pbs!
4-way joy + 5 separate pbs in the same line as trackball to allow for games like Defender, asteroids & missle command to be played on the same line (and any similar & 4-way games) = 5 pbs
2 pbs for 2 spinners each = 4 pbs
2 pbs for pinball
2 pbs for pl1 & pl2 (I figured since 4 player will be occassional I'll start that off the keyboard)
3 more or less designated for admin function (pause, esc etc) (or not)

Use can use shift functions for the admin buttons and not have buttons on your CP and not need as many inputs.

TOTAL 37 (40 or so with dedicated admin, but most likely I'll use Tiger-Heli advice)

Of course I would love to shove couple of rotary sticks for ultimate in franken panels  But I just can't figure out where to stick it! (although I'm thinking of at least one on the other side of the trackball, but not yet)

Thanks everybody for the input!
I guess I'll go with ps/2 encoders, just in case.

Btw any input regarding light guns?

[Tiger-Heli]

Actually I went through pictures of all panels in mame and I noticed at least 1 4-player, 5 button game.

I would like to know which one.  The only ones I know of are the D&D games which are 4 buttons each.

Here is my setup that I plan
1joy + 7 pbs, 2nd joy with topfire + 4 pbs + player 2 same as player one = 24 pbs!
4-way joy + 5 separate pbs in the same line as trackball to allow for games like Defender, asteroids & missle command to be played on the same line (and any similar & 4-way games) = 5 pbs
2 pbs for 2 spinners each = 4 pbs
2 pbs for pinball
2 pbs for pl1 & pl2 (I figured since 4 player will be occassional I'll start that off the keyboard)
3 more or less designated for admin function (pause, esc etc) (or not)
TOTAL 37 (40 or so with dedicated admin, but most likely I'll use Tiger-Heli advice)

Your math is way off somewhere, but I figure at the most conservative, you are looking at a 40-input panel.

The joysticks are 16 inputs, the left buttons are 14, the right are 8, the topfires are 2, so that is 44 inputs right there - not counting coin, start, esc, pause, etc.

You could combine buttons to only use 6 buttons for the left stick (with a repeated input for the 7th button), the top-fire could be shared with one of the right stick buttons.  The tb and spinner buttons can be shared.

If you can settle for only playing 3-button games with 4-players, you could make this work with a KeyWiz Eco, but it would take a LOT of compromise: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=21870.msg177854#msg177854

Btw any input regarding light guns?

MAME is supposed to allow you to map a mouse to button inputs, since you can map lightguns to mouse inputs, I suppose it would work, but I haven't gotten the mouse to button inputs part to work myself.

[mimic]

I was just counting push buttons in that post because it looked like leapinlew was shocked as to the amount of pushbuttons

[Tiger-Heli]

I was just counting push buttons in that post because it looked like leapinlew was shocked as to the amount of pushbuttons

I think LeapinLew was surprised by the number of inputs, but anyway inputs are really what determines what encoder to get, you can wire 15 buttons to the same input and have them do the same thing if you want to.

[javeryh]

5 joysticks and 40 buttons seems like an awful lot to me - I'd be curious to see a drawing/layout of your CP.

[Chris G]

I think Lew already posted it. 

[mimic]

5 joysticks and 40 buttons seems like an awful lot to me - I'd be curious to see a drawing/layout of your CP.

I figure it shouldn't be much bigger than what slick stick is offering with their CO2 unit.

[mimic]

I think Lew already posted it. 

hehehe almost there, except he forgot 2 rotary joys and couple of analog ones with machineguns on top of them for terminator.

[Chris G]

Heh - glad you have a sense of humor about it... YOU GO, BOY!   

[Kaytrim]

A single KeyWiz will not be enough for all the inputs you have going there.  I would recommend that you add a GPWiz to the mix.  This way you will have enough inputs and no conflicts.  You are also missing a trackball and spinner for the full frankenpanel layout.

[mimic]

  You are also missing a trackball and spinner for the full frankenpanel layout.

Hah, I'm ahead of you. I already mentioned 2 spinners! (and I was actually seriously considering 2 trackballs, but for now just one. Maybe on the next frankenpanel project!?) 

[Tiger-Heli]

You are also missing a trackball and spinner for the full frankenpanel layout.

And a Star-Wars yoke, an analog trigger-stick, a 720 controller, alpine ski's, a skateboard controller, handlebars, an exercise bike for propcycle, and a hang-on style motorcycle seat.