EVERYONE Please Give me Advice!!! I need some direction :-(

[parpunk]

Hello everybody, i believe this is my thrid post and after posting a few times about some ideas on a MAME project, i thought i had everything under control, but now it seems i just came to another fork in the road, and am lost and totally confused on what i wanna do now. And if ANYONE could give me some advice i would greatly appreciate it. :-)

Ok heres whats going on>

Use a Modded XBOX for MAME   
or
Older Computer with PCI Card for MAME   

Either way i know i want to (fr the time) use a Flat screen TV, and not an arcade monitor. Because i want it to be hassle free and i know nothing about arcade monitors  yet. Maybe ill upgrade later in time.

I want to build a MAME set up to play like every Arcade ROM. Or at least most of them. The easiest and cheapest way possible. Plus i want it all to run great if possible. Now Im kinda stuck on where to go right now with this. I have a free computer to use for MAME, and i also have an already modded xbox that i could use for MAME. i basically wanna do whats best and whats easiest. I also already have a 4 player control panel made, Although im confused on what to do about the connectors on my control panel, all i know is that its a ps/2 hookup on it. And i have no idea what kind of connector to get for something like that if i wanna use it for an xbox. Although if i could use the Xbox for MAME i wouldnt have to get a bunch of stuff for my computer like video card etc. But is i use the computer i could use the ps/2 port on it as well. But my computer only has PCI slot on it, no agp, or PCI express. Although i dont know if that amount of roms would fit on an xbox though, without having modifications done to it.

Basically im a newbie at all this but i do have a pretty sweet control panel ready for this. heres the one i won off ebay>>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120088462517&rd=1&rd=1

At the time im really not wanting to spend over $200.00 more for anything else i need really. But may splurge a little more than that if i have to, to be able to get a sweet setup.

Basically i wanna be able to play all the awesome 2d arcade games like TMNT, simpsons, marvel vs. capcom 1 and 2, street fighter, mortal kombat, battletosads etc, All with 3 to 4 players, HASSLE FREE. I was told there are a certain kind of adaptors for an xbox to take ps/2 ports, but cant seem to find anywhere that has them. Does anyone perhaps have a link???Also i was wondering if i do get one of these adaptors will the xbox read the control panel everytime on every game, or will it be hard and confusing to figure out?

I have been talking to Snaake about doing some modding for the xbox to be able to run a control panel like mine, hopefully i can get some direction there too. Or maybe a computer will be a better bet. im still not sure about all this If Anyone could give me some ideas i would love to hear em.

Thanks a lot for looking at my post and i hope i get some good direction :-)

-mark

[ChadTower]

Buy and read.

[shardian]

A computer would be best for you.

[parpunk]

hey thanks for the tips guys, but i was kinda leaning in favor of the xbox a little still. but im still not really sure heres a little reason why>

PROS    for using Xbox
I wouldnt have to get a PCI card for my computer
I wouldnt have to worry about installing a PCI (which ive never done)
Wouldnt have to learn how to make a front end work on a computer
Would be able to play games like soul calibur and dead or alive (which a computer wouldnt handle.
Wouldnt have to wait for it load as long as a computer
Wouldnt have to worry about roms being in correct folders with bios and stuff (hopefully) cause i know nothing about Bios or about drivers and stuff.

CONS    for using XBOX
I Hear some people say some games wont play right or at full speed because of Ram or something
I would have to find a connector to work for my xbox and my 4 player control panel (which im still looking for) Must be able to convert ps/2 port on my control panel
Might have to pay someone to mod my xbox to take the control panel??
Might have to pay to upgrade xbox harddrive and other stuff i dont know about.

so yea im still quite confused on what would be best for me.

[shardian]

Installing a video card is easy. You just install the software off the cd, then pop off the side of the pc and push the card into the slot that it fits in.
You are going to be making sacrifices with either setup IMO

As to front ends, Atomic FE has a plug-n-play functionality. you download the FE, download the MAME plug-n-play file, then put your snap shots and roms in the folder. Bam! you are ready to rock.

[SithMaster]

Id go pc since its cheaper and then you just need a decent video card to output to svid or comp.

The xbox should always remember what buttons youve assigned.

[Kaytrim]

Installing a PCI card is not that hard.  Installing a modchip in a XBox would scare me.  Parts for a computer are more readily found and are standardized.  Modchips are not.  Customizing the front end to look the way you want is part of the fun.  You have the option of getting emulators for the various consoles not just MAME.  You are very limited to the games and emulators for the XBox.

For the flexibility, I would stick with a computer.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[Jeff AMN]

I'd go with the PC for many reasons, but most importantly, you'll find a stronger support base here for it. Most guys here have gone the PC route and should be able to identify any problems you come across and address them quickly. I think that you're more "future proofed" by going with a PC too.

[Zeppo]

From what you want, and what you are able to spend, I would have to say it isn't really possible.
You say you want to play EVERY arcade rom. For that you will need a very high end machine and even then some may not play well from what I have heard.
If you want to stick to the 2D games you mentioned, then you will probably need a good 2GHz machine.
Or thereabouts.
If the computer you have only has PCI, no AGP or PCI-e, then it is most likely an older computer that doesn't have enough power.
You may be able to get lucky and find a computer either on ebay or craigslist.com that would work for you for $200.

I know nothing about X-Box setups, so my only advice there is that I have heard they don't exactly work the best in the world.

Good luck.
Wish I could help more.

[DrumAnBass]

I originally was planning on using my modded Xbox to run mame in my cab. I installed a xenium SPICE solderless modchip, which was fairly painless and used the AID intaller disk (look for a torrent) to load in all the apps, including MameOx.

However; MameOx needs an old romset which I couldn't find, and it isn't the greatest front end. Just not very flexible or customizable.

So then I decided to build a cheap PC for my cab. I bought an AMD Semperon 1800+ motherboard/processor combo from Frys for $79, a cheap power supply, 512mb ram, wireless keyboard/mouse, and used an old hard drive I had sitting around - all for less than $200. What the PC offers is more flexibility. USB ports, trackball support, utilities for keymapping, cool screensavers, much better frontends. I used a GGG GPWiz as an encoder so the computer thinks my player 1 joystick is a "gamepad" so it will work with any PC game that supports gamepads.

A cheap PC is just a lot more flexible than the Xbox. Now I use my Xbox for the XBMC Media Center, which is a much better use of it than sticking it in my arcade cab.

[ChadTower]

XBMC > everything

That is all.

[javeryh]

Buy and read.

I couldn't agree more.

For what it's worth, I'd also vote for going with a PC due to flexibility and the support you can get here for it.  Also, IMO, the biggest mistake anyone can make when they are starting is to think that there is an all-in-one solution for MAME.  There just isn't.  If you try to build something that will "play everything" (which you can't) you will end up with something that doesn't feel right for a lot of games.

[parpunk]

hey guys thanks a lot for all the help thus far.

As for the computer i have its a hewlett packard pavilion 533w. and after talking to a few people everyone said it should definetly be able to handle 95 percent of the arcade games. When i say ALL the arcade roms, i mean the ones that are logical to play. NOT the new 3d games. the most advanced game i would like to run would be something like Marvel Vs. capcom. and from what im told my computer will handle that fine.

i was just thinking modded xbox might be better, but now you guys are persuading me the other route lol.

Oh one other thing, what up BIOS? i had one user tell me about them, but if i was looking into getting a complete rom set, would the bios normally be with those etc.?

Thanks for all the info so far guys, and please keep the input coming if anyone has a minute to share info/experience. thanks guys!
-mark

[unclet]

My first thought is if you build a complete cabient around an Xbox and then the Xbox fails in a year or so .... then what?  Try to get another old Xbox and perform a hack on it years from now?   Yikes.  I would stick with a computer in which it is very easy to replace, upgrade and configure.

Also, why would you build a cabinet and not want to configure a front end now and days, since they are so easy to set up.   I used MALA as my frontend, but others exist which are easy as well.   Part of the fun in my opinion.

[Tiger-Heli]

However; MameOx needs an old romset which I couldn't find, and it isn't the greatest front end. Just not very flexible or customizable.

Shoot me a PM and I can probably shoot you a link.

[javeryh]

When i say ALL the arcade roms, i mean the ones that are logical to play. NOT the new 3d games.

This is still going to be tough to accomodate.  There are tons and tons of different control panels out there.  One of the great things about an arcade with dedicated machines was the variety of the interfaces.  Once you start building and getting into it more your head is going to explode when you realize that Street Fighter and Pac-man can't really be played (properly) using the same joystick (Ultimarc 360 notwithstanding) or that Ikari Warriors is most likely not going to be playable on whatever you build because of the rotary controls or that Punch-Out!! isn't going to look quite right because of the dual screen setup, or every driving game isn't going to be fun without a steeringwheel and pedals, etc.  This is why after you are done building the first one, you start a second one!  The Project Arcade control panel is probably the best layout for playing as many games as possible but it's still not even close to accomodating "ALL the arcade roms."  I hope this helps!

Good luck!  

[Tiger-Heli]

Never went the modded X-box route, but I wouldn't recommend it for reasons others have stated along with:

According to a previous post, you already have an I-Pac/4 with the CP, which is a great PC interface, but not easily adapted to an Xbox.

If MameOX needs an older romset, how often is MameOX updated.

What happens if the next MAME plays Wargods at full speed on a Duron 850, but you are using a modded Xbox - (don't hold your breath for it).

What if you want to use Project64 on the cabinet for N64 ports of games that MAME can't handle.  (Substitute Nebula, Final Burn, Zinc, Mess, RAINE, ZSNES, Model 2, etc. for Project 64 as applicable.)

As for the computer i have its a hewlett packard pavilion 533w. and after talking to a few people everyone said it >should definetly be able to handle 95 percent of the arcade games.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=bph07909&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN (2Ghz Celeron, integrated video, 256M base Ram, only PCI expansion slots)

When i say ALL the arcade roms, i mean the ones that are logical to play. NOT the new 3d games. the most advanced game i would like to run would be something like Marvel Vs. capcom. and from what im told my computer will handle that fine.

Mvsc in MAME 0.67 runs at 92.5 FPS instead of 60 unthrottled with a Celeron 850 according to http://www.gamedude.com.au/arcade/benchmark/search_all.php, so yeah, you should be fine.

Oh one other thing, what up BIOS? i had one user tell me about them, but if i was looking into getting a complete rom set, would the bios normally be with those etc.?

Second question is yes.  First question depends on what you are asking about.  MAME uses about ten BIOS's for various systems - neogeo, pc-10, megatech, etc.  These are just files that make up part of the romset and are required to play the games.  OTOH, the computer will have a BIOS which might need to have it's settings changed to use an added video card rather than the integrated video, and the Xbox mod to allow MAMEox to work might be a change to it's BIOS.  Without knowing the context, it's hard to know what you are asking.

[Tiger-Heli]

More stuff -

>PROS    for using Xbox
>I wouldnt have to get a PCI card for my computer

Cheap on E-Bay, or try www.pricewatch.com - E-bay is probably better as AGP is getting phased out for PCI-E and PCI is older than AGP.

>I wouldnt have to worry about installing a PCI (which ive never done)

Piece of cake, easier than most anything else in the project.

>Wouldnt have to learn how to make a front end work on a computer

Plug and play - if you pick the right front-end.

>Would be able to play games like soul calibur and dead or alive (which a computer wouldnt handle.

Okay, I don't play fighters but . . . DOA has an X-box port, but I don't see that Soul Caliber does.  But - don't limit yourself to just MAME - depending on the game, if MAME can't handle it on your PC, there is a good chance that Zinc or Model 2 or another emulator can.  Also, nothing prohibits you from having the X-box and the PC inside the cab with an A-B switch to select between them, although using the CP with both units takes some ingenuity, but guys on here have done it.  Also, with a computer, you can buy a Quad-core whatever the latest processor is for cheap in a few years and play all the games that are too slow now.  With an X-box you would have to basically start from scratch.

>Wouldnt have to wait for it load as long as a computer

I'm not sure about this.  If you turn it off, you still have to wait for the TV to come on.  WinXP can load in about 30 seconds if you disable the background services and boot straight into your front-end.  If you leave it on all the time, well . . .

>Wouldnt have to worry about roms being in correct folders with bios and stuff (hopefully) cause i know nothing >about Bios or about drivers and stuff.

www.mameworld.net/easyemu - click on MAME on the left.

[Grasshopper]

Soul Calibur II is definitely available for the Xbox. I know because I've just been checking out prices on Ebay. 

[Tiger-Heli]

Soul Calibur II is definitely available for the Xbox. I know because I've just been checking out prices on Ebay. 

Thanks, I based my comment on MAWS only showing the Dreamcast as a console port for it.   

[parpunk]

hey guys thanks a lot for all the info and everything. im so glad to be able to be a part of a site that gets like 20 answers to my questions from different people, in the first few hours i post a thread :-). Very Cool!

Ok yep im gonna go with using my computer. I was just afraid i would use a computer and get lost and be stuck not knowing what to do, but i see that everyone here seems that they really know their stuff, so i think ill be in good hands with my project. :-)  Thanks a lot and i think im gonna order my PCI card tonight, so i can have s video out. Thanks everybody and for anyone that is seeing this for the first time, please post your 2 cents as well. i need all the input i can get. input input input input!

oh and by the way thanks for all the links everybody, im checking them out now :-)

-Mark

[Tiger-Heli]

PCI Card - This is a bit of overkill, but it's the best way to do things.  Before you get the card, I recommend downloading the latest Nvidia or ATI drivers that work with it from their main sites.  (For ATI, I actually like the Omega Drivers better than the official ones, but that's not really required.)  Put the installation files on the computer, but don't install them yet.

(Also - as a safeguard, you might want to download and save the currrent video drivers from www.hp.com (or whatever you are using if you have upgraded them).  This would only be required if for some reason the new card did not work with your PC.

Look in your user manual and see if there are either jumper settings on the motherboard or BIOS settings for turning off the on-board integrated video.  There may or may not be.  If there are not, the computer will automatically switch to the PCI card when installed.

Look up DriverCleanerPro and download it.  The official site is now payware, but you can find the freeware version on MajorGeeks or similar and the freeware is all you need.  Install per the instructions.

Remove the existing video drivers using Add/Remove programs - then boot into SAFE mode (F8) and run DriverCleanerPro to remove any registry entries and traces of the old drivers.

Shut down the PC.

Disconnect the monitor cable.

Open the PC case.

Ideally use and anti-static wrist strap, but otherwise, just touch the metal case of the power supply with one hand and remove the PCI Card with the other hand.  Line the card up with the first PCI slot (generally white plastic) and press the edge connector down until the card seats.

Plug the existing monitor into the VGA output of the card and turn the monitor on.  (Make sure it works with a known good monitor before you try to hook up the S-video stuff).

Turn on the PC and you should see a normal startup, then run the driver installation program.

That should do it - there are some steps for enabling more than 60Hz refresh rates with some drivers, but for S-video I don't know that that is even an issue, but I haven't personally used S-Video.

[parpunk]

cool thanks for the info man! Anyone else have any input before i dive into  a computer mame?

[langdoguk]

As a total beginner myself I would recomend looking at Atomic FE , and mGalaxy as a front end ,I can't even use mame only mame 32 , and the only front ends I can work are them. Plug and play is designed for people like me  , The guys on this site make it possible for all of us to enjoy the good old classics without being a computer programmer ( just being able to ask one helps ).
Well my shift starts in MacDonalds soon so good luck.

[parpunk]

hey thanks a lot man for the info, Will both of those front ends work with Mame 32 ? oh and seeing as how ya got a Revenge of Drancon avatar you probably are alot like me! lol.  the Adventure island series are like my favorite games EVER~!!! Got em all! Thanks man!

[langdoguk]

You don't even need mame 32 ,you just need the roms , just download the front end and put the roms straight into the roms folder and hey presto  .
Thats where I was going wrong trying to use mame 32 with frontends when most of them are looking for mame (command line ).
But beware the more you read this forum the more you WANT .
I just wanted a few games on a cab , now I want things I havent even played just cos they sound cool on other guy's machine's , and I'll no doubt get worse .
Good luck and enjoy 

[paigeoliver]

Forget about using an X-Box.

I am not sure why you keep talking about needing to get a PCI. You don't need any special cards in your computer to use mame. Were you talking about getting a video card with TV out?

Now I do have one important bit of advice relating to that control panel you bought. See the joysticks for player 3 and 4? They are installed wrong. They are angled when they should be faced the same way as the other sticks. Every 4 player game you ever played in the arcade had the sticks all facing the same way and not angled. Matter of fact that could be one of the reasons the guy sold the panel since no one wanted to play player 3 or 4 since the sticks were wrong.

Angled sticks are one of the mistakes made by a few of the early cabinet builders who had websites, and now the mistake just keeps getting copied over and over again. Most of the rest of the "most copied mistakes" are in the area of cabinet design, which doesn't really effect usability, but angled sticks do.

[parpunk]

angled sticks?? i dont get it? They are just off to the side i thought. Would it really effect gameplay that much?

As for the PCI, yea i said plenty of times above im getting it for s video out.

[javeryh]

angled sticks?? i dont get it? They are just off to the side i thought. Would it really effect gameplay that much?

Yes.  The tendency is to push towards the screen when moving "up" - if you angle the sticks theose player will be pushing at a 45 degree angle to move "up".  I can't imagine playing something like this.  It is completely counterintuitive to me.

[Tiger-Heli]

Parpunk - MAME is not video card GPU intensive.  Here's a couple of links for PCI S-video cards that are inexpensive and should be sufficient (Anything over $50 is throwing money away for MAME): 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+1069609642+1232814101&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

http://www.imagestore.us/Items/v27?sck=31085339
http://www.imagestore.us/Items/v35

angled sticks?? i dont get it? They are just off to the side i thought. Would it really effect gameplay that much?

That has been a running debate on here.  What I would recommend is to hook up your control panel to your PC and get MAME running on it now without the new Video Card and TV-out.  Then either try to play a game using the P3 and P4 sticks, or rotate the panel 45 degrees and play with the P1 and P2 sticks.  If it doesn't bother your or your friends, don't worry too much about it.

[Kremmit]

Every 4 player game you ever played in the arcade had the sticks all facing the same way and not angled.

Every game, except Mercs.

But I agree, I can't stand to play on the outside joysticks on my Mercs machine.  Angled joysticks are teh sux.

[polaris]

edit, quote from paigeoliver
Now I do have one important bit of advice relating to that control panel you bought. See the joysticks for player 3 and 4? They are installed wrong. They are angled when they should be faced the same way as the other sticks. Every 4 player game you ever played in the arcade had the sticks all facing the same way and not angled. Matter of fact that could be one of the reasons the guy sold the panel since no one wanted to play player 3 or 4 since the sticks were wrong.

kinda disagree with this, i know im new around here but i thought the angled 3+4 layout was like that, as those players faced the machine at that angle ,therefore the joystick is in the correct alignment to the player facing it , like gauntlet, if you had a straight 4p control panel p3 = p4 would be really far from the screen.

[Kremmit]

kinda disagree with this, i know im new around here but i thought the angled 3+4 layout was like that, as those players faced the machine at that angle ,therefore the joystick is in the correct alignment to the player facing it , like gauntlet, if you had a straight 4p control panel p3 = p4 would be really far from the screen.

And yet, a Gauntlet machine mounts all 4 joys facing the same way, Up = towards the wall behind the machine, at a perfect 90 degree angle.  Mercs is the only game (AFAIK) that came with sticks mounted angled.  If you never noticed the mounting orientation  when you were playing Gauntlet or some other 4player game, that just goes to show you that the standard orientation feels natural.  And I can attest that the angled mounting definitely does not feel right, at least to me.

[parpunk]

hmm ok yea ill look into this. anything i can do to make them correct if they are angled wrong? Plus will it be easy? I bought a control panel because i didnt think i would be able to make one myself. geesh now new problems 

[polaris]

kinda disagree with this, i know im new around here but i thought the angled 3+4 layout was like that, as those players faced the machine at that angle ,therefore the joystick is in the correct alignment to the player facing it , like gauntlet, if you had a straight 4p control panel p3 = p4 would be really far from the screen.

And yet, a Gauntlet machine mounts all 4 joys facing the same way, Up = towards the wall behind the machine, at a perfect 90 degree angle.  Mercs is the only game (AFAIK) that came with sticks mounted angled.  If you never noticed the mounting orientation  when you were playing Gauntlet or some other 4player game, that just goes to show you that the standard orientation feels natural.  And I can attest that the angled mounting definitely does not feel right, at least to me.

i stand corrected if this is so but i honestly seem to remember that the p3/p4 up on gauntlet were turned through 90 degress so up was away but youre saying they were all oriented directly to the movement on screen. hey it was 20 years ago so im not getting into arguments i could well be wrong, gutted though i wanted to do a 4 player of that layout. sorry if im using this thread to answer my questions ,they just seem on topic to me.

[parpunk]

its cool man i need all the input i can get lol. Ill try the control panel and see how it feels. will there be an easy alternative if it sucks?

[paigeoliver]

Fixing those sticks is just a matter of physically rotating them in place so they match the others. It will only take a few minutes. You will want to make this change. Otherwise your friends will lose interest in your machine almost instantly. Plus angling side sticks makes playing 2 player Smash TV and things like that impossible, and you are a lot more likely to be playing 2 player Smash TV than anything 4 player.

I briefly had a 4 player layout, it would never see any 4 player action. People would play 2 players at a time on 4 player games while the other people waited. Grown men just don't like being all smashed up together on 4 player machines.

[Tiger-Heli]

i stand corrected if this is so but i honestly seem to remember that the p3/p4 up on gauntlet were turned through 90 degress so up was away but youre saying they were all oriented directly to the movement on screen. hey it was 20 years ago so im not getting into arguments i could well be wrong, gutted though i wanted to do a 4 player of that layout. sorry if im using this thread to answer my questions ,they just seem on topic to me.

I tried to research this on MAWS and got conflicting results:

Gauntlet - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/gauntlet.png Clearly all sticks are mounted the same way (not at a 45-degree angle), but no easy way to tell if the side sticks have the switches oriented the same way or not - i.e. with this mounting method, UP for Thor could be either up or right - no way to tell without tracing the wires.

Captain America - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/captaven.png Player 3 and 4 sticks appear to be angled similar to the angle they would stand at the machine.  They are not parallel to the 1 and 2 sticks.

2on2 Open Ice Challenge - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/openice.png Same as Captain America.

DD - Shadows over Mystera - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/ddsom.png All sticks seem to be oriented the same way, but also looks like all players would be facing the screen the same way.

Gauntlet Legends - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/gauntleg.png You can see for the green player, UP is clearly labeled as toward the machine, but again, this could be set up so the 4th player is facing the machine when playing.

Super Hi-Impact Football - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/hiimpact.png The middle (2&3) sticks are clearly angled to match the angle that the players would stand at.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/tmnt.png Same as DDSOM.

Sunset Riders - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/ssriders.png Same as Gauntlet, however, P3 and P4 sticks appear to be turned inward to me.

SpiderMan - http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/spidman.png Same as DDSOM.

[polaris]

Fixing those sticks is just a matter of physically rotating them in place so they match the others. It will only take a few minutes.quote]

im really struggling to understand this, i can see you may suggest cutting off 3 and 4 entirely but if you just rotate them so all up directions are pointing straight at the screen it would IMHO render them unusable as you would have to reach both hands to one side of your body to use the controls, to put them all in the same plane would involve a new bigger top to the CP surely so that all four players were side by side. to me as long as the i knew that pushing the controller away from me meant the character would move up on the screen it wouldnt necassarily matter the orientation of that stick to the screen ,as i said previously im sure players 3/4 in gauntlet pushed away from them for up and it seems natural to me to make a panel like this. again i can see the 45 degree angle may still leave the four players too close for comfort but id let LANGDOGUK find out for himself he doesnt like the way it feels before you tell him he has to change it.

edit ; sorry dont know how my text got wrapped into the quote

[davieboynj]

Fixing those sticks is just a matter of physically rotating them in place so they match the others. It will only take a few minutes.

im really struggling to understand this, i can see you may suggest cutting off 3 and 4 entirely but if you just rotate them so all up directions are pointing straight at the screen it would IMHO render them unusable as you would have to reach both hands to one side of your body to use the controls, to put them all in the same plane would involve a new bigger top to the CP surely so that all four players were side by side. to me as long as the i knew that pushing the controller away from me meant the character would move up on the screen it wouldnt necassarily matter the orientation of that stick to the screen ,as i said previously im sure players 3/4 in gauntlet pushed away from them for up and it seems natural to me to make a panel like this. again i can see the 45 degree angle may still leave the four players too close for comfort but id let LANGDOGUK find out for himself he doesnt like the way it feels before you tell him he has to change it.

I have a 4p cab and i know for certain that people don't like being crushed into it.  you will only ever see 2p even on simpsons/xmen/cows moo mesa/sunset riders.  If you want 4p, leave the controllers, but a 45deg setup will definitely confuse people, and will make true classics like smashTV, Total Carnage, and CrazyClimber2 2p unplayable. 

For an arcade setup, it's possible that a 45deg setup is better.  For mame it's just wrong.  If you need the 1 and 4 turned in, get the ultimarc sticks, and configure as such. 

[parpunk]

ok great im glad its an easy fix, as for 4 grown men, (im actually 21) but yea i see your point lol. Now what exactly would i do to rotate these joysticks?? Just loosen them and turn  them? I dont really understand what is rotated wrong in them?

[paigeoliver]

Looking at the underside, see the plastic rectangle bases of the joystick? Those bases should all point the same direction. The ones on the side should not be angled off to the side. You will have to move the bolts that hold the joysticks in.

[parpunk]

ohhhhh ok i see man. that wont be hard at all. I see the way he did it, is you would have to point the joystick towards the screen almost to make a charcter move up. as oppose to just pushing it up. i see man that would be weird?? Hmm yea ill switch that up like no problem. Otherwise i thought i got a decent deal on a 4 player rigg though. After i fix that it should be sweet :-) cool thanks a lot man!

[parpunk]

hey guys, ok thanks to everyoe for all the help. i just bought this PCI card>

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161010

i hope i made a good choice on this one. reviews looked good etc. and i hope its easy to install. Anyone know anything i definteley need to do befre installing this card in my hewlett packard 533W pavilion?

thanks again for all the advice everyone :-)

[Tiger-Heli]

That should be fine.  I have a 64M Radeon 9200 in my machine, but I'm using a PC monitor, but ATI is supposed to be good for S-Video.

One thing, you can't use later than the ATI Radeon 6.5 Drivers with that card, but otherwise, it sound fine.  (And that's not a hardship, just don't download their 7.1 Drivers and wonder why you get a black screen.)