Happ perfect 360 , It's making a crunching noise.

[Keypel]

Just installed a p360.

This is hard to explain but when moving the stick from right to left or up to down it's making a crunching (snapping , boing) sound.

I think it's the spring making all that noise. The stick does not feel smooth. Is this normal?

Here is a video of the problem (56k friendly)

main download: Click Here

alternative download Click Here

[Kremmit]

You've got the pivot cone installed upside down.  The wide part goes down, toward the base of the stick.  The small end points up toward the handle.

[Keypel]

Checked the pivot cone. It was installed correctly the first time with the wide part going down. Tried it both ways for the hell of it, it's easy to tell the difference.

Any other ideas?

Maybe grease the pivot cone? Change the spring? I have an ultimate joystick, maybe try using that spring in the 360? Maybe buy another perfect 360?

I noticed the spring is super stiff, I have to use a screwdriver to push down the actuator just to put the E-clip on.

with the ultimate you can push the actuator down using just your thumbs.

[Kremmit]

Hmm.  That's usually it.  It certainly shouldn't be doing that, something's wrong, but there arent really a lot of other pieces to mix up.  Have you got both spacer sleeves installed? (you shouldn't)  Is the main spring somehow not lined up correctly, moving around in the base?  Is the dust washer somehow binding against the handle?  I can't think of any other parts that move or make contact...

[shardian]

Check it all again. I had the same issue in a reunion 4-way. I thought I had it together correctly to, and dismissed the pivot cone. I was wrong.

[kowal]

pivot cracks and funnel on bottom.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=52951.0

[Keypel]

ok, I know (I think I know) why it's making that snapping crunchy noise (see pic below)




When I remove the optical hub, the crunchy noise stops.

Have no idea how to fix it.

kowal, I'm reading that thread now......

[Keypel]

ok, Seems that we all agree that the crunchy noise is caused by the plastic piece that sits between the spring and the actuator rubbing against the optical hub.


Had to study the hell out of this picture (below) by kowal/2600 before it made any sense.




According to the picture above, It looks like a taller actuator will move that other piece further away from the optical hub. I have no idea on how to *make* a taller actuator.

Some other solutions I thought of would be to add a small washer between the E-clip and the actuator. Another one might be to add spacers between the main housing and the optical hub.

What do you guys think?

I take it that everyone that owns a perfect 360 has this problem??

I can't belive the makers of perfect 360 would allow such a design flaw!

[kowal]

funnel hinders about  hub but the bang of spring generates pivot (is too wide).

if you have not different pivot. use sticking plaster


taste to to wrap around stick tape.


P360 has a lot of constructional mistakes- Wico base is total crap. This is old construction.

I take it that everyone that owns a perfect 360 has this problem??

everyone...
some men this does not disturb. they are exacting little.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=57724.0

[miles2912]

I have 2 perfect 360's in my cab with absolutely no problems or noise.  If yours is defective Happs will replace them.  These are top of the line sticks and should operate as such.  My gut says you put them together wrong but it sounds like you are ok there.  They should be whisper quiet.

D-

[destructor]

I have 2 perfect 360's in my cab with absolutely no problems or noise.  If yours is defective Happs will replace them.  These are top of the line sticks and should operate as such.  My gut says you put them together wrong but it sounds like you are ok there.  They should be whisper quiet.

D-

And pay for replacing every time. In my P360 is noise too. In your P360s must be the same, check it very carefully.

[AlanS17]

The RetroBlast review never mentioned anything about a noise. Did they miss something?

[kowal]

they do not write about many things. They estimated on 5 - P360 diagonals it hardly it records.
Diagonals Mag-stick they estimated on 2 this joystick has very easy diagonals restrictor is square.

[destructor]

RetroBlast reviews are good for beginners.

I don't want to say nothing wrong about RetroBlast. Point is that on RetroBlast are not all very important informations and some informations are wrong.

[ften]

Having the same odd noise issue. Odd thing is that I bought two 360s, one makes noise and one doesn't. Annoys the hell out of me.

-FTen

[Keypel]

Since it's nearly impossible for me to describe this crunchy , snappy, noise I made a small video (only 1.5mb) Please take a look and tell me what you think.

main download: Click Here

or if that one doesn't work here is an alternative one, Click Here

[kowal]

it is pivot

put together joystick and see that they will move he on sides after center.

these hatches cause this crunchy. this acts how shooting from ruler in boards



the best to make new shaft, pivot$ actuator

[RetroJames]

Hey guys, I pinged Kevin as he wrote the 360 review, he should chime in shortly. Sorry your having issues, but I agree with miles2912, you may want to look into replacements. It is very possible the stick has poor quality control and we got a good one while others may be getting defects.

Also wanted to address these two posts,

they do not write about many things. They estimated on 5 - P360 diagonals it hardly it records.
Diagonals Mag-stick they estimated on 2 Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! this joystick has very easy diagonals restrictor is square.
RetroBlast reviews are good for beginners.

I pointed this out to Kevin as well, again he did that review, but please elaborate here or in email. I apologize but I'm not quite grokking what your pointing out and if there is an issue in one of our reviews we need to remedy that.  james at retroblast dot com

I don't want to say nothing wrong about RetroBlast. Point is that on RetroBlast are not all very important informations and some informations are wrong.

Again on this one, please let us know what you find that you feel is wrong. We all make mistakes, but would like to fix them whenever they are spotted.

Thanks!

[KevSteele]

I've never heard a sound from my P360's

A Happs P360 is perfectly silent in operation, with no noise at all and very smooth motion in any direction. If you don't have that, something is either installed wrong or something's broken.

Looking at the video, I think I can see what's wrong -- the bushing (the small angled "washer") is installed upside down on the shaft. Flip it over, reinstall, and see if that fixes things. I had a crunchy noise once when I reinstalled the parts wrong. Did you get a schematic with the stick? Check the Happ site, they usually have assembly diagrams available in the parts listing.

[destructor]

RetroJames, I don't know how long you or your friend test this joystick.

Diagonals are one of the triumphs of this design

Yes, it's true but with moded actuator.

A firmer spring and a complete lack of friction make an interesting combination that really gave me a feeling of absolute and total control.

Firmer spring is hard and hand is tired after 1-2 hours of playing (it depend from your musculature).

It's even better with a SlikStik stainless steel handle. I had P360's with stainless steel balltops installed on my SlikStik control panel, and I am in love with these joysticks. The shape and feel of the SlikStik handles just makes the gameplay that much more enjoyable.

It's almost true. Look at this picture:
http://www.retroblast.com/photos/joysticks/p360_slik.jpg
how high is P360 with SlikStik in this panel? It's almost as tree Too long handle = too long way to engage.

In review I don't found any word about connection 5V and GND cables with P360 PCB. It's very weak and usually it must be changed for ... gold pins for example.

On joystick Chart we can read:
Diagonals = 5 (easy)
For J-Stik is 5 too. In J-Stik diagonals are far easier than in P360. In T-Sik we have 4. T-Stik have square restrictor, P360 - circle and diagonals on P360 are easier than on T-Stik?
It can be true but when you use moded actuator, not default.

You wrote that diagonals in Mag-Stik are hard (2). Jisus, no comment.

Otherwise there is more things for correct but I don't want to write new review. Better if someone will translater kowal's reviews.

[destructor]

A Happs P360 is perfectly silent in operation, with no noise at all and very smooth motion in any direction. If you don't have that, something is either installed wrong or something's broken.

All parts are fited correctly, it's Happ's slovenling during production, nothing more.

[KevSteele]

Destructor,

I'm glad you're on top of things and know exactly what the problem is.

As far as testing - I have two P360's in my cabinet, and I use them every day. Best joysticks I've ever owned. The picture you saw is with SlikStik's custom joystick handles. They're the same height as the standard handles, so I don't understand where you're claiming they're too high. Perhaps you've got your shaft set for metal control panels, not wood.

The cable connections are fine, no need for gold pins. Firm spring is fine, no sore hands. No need for a modded actuator, either. Diagonals are a cinch with this stick (I play Robotron all the time, and diagonals are life-and-death in that game  )

Anyway, like I said: a P360 should be smooth and silent in operation. If not, either a part is broken or installed incorrectly.

[destructor]

You use them every day. But how long in every day? 1 hour? I usually play 8-10 hours, in tournaments 16 hours for a day.

The cable connections are fine, no need for gold pins. Firm spring is fine, no sore hands. No need for a modded actuator, either. Diagonals are a cinch with this stick (I play Robotron all the time, and diagonals are life-and-death in that game  )

My cables disconnect after week (I didn't touch cables. Cables were hidden inside panel).
Spring isn't fine.
Diagonals are ok? - try to play DoDonPachi or other shmup, next change actuator to moded (if you have). Next try to play on beatem-up games (Final Fight) and try to move by diagonals. For me playing on Knights of the Round is very hard using this stick (Ultrastik 360 is perfectly here).

And I understand you, for you joystick is fine. You use it for not 'hardcore' playing.

[KevSteele]

Heh...if Robotron isn't hardcore, I don't know what is. 

[destructor]

Heh...if Robotron isn't hardcore, I don't know what is. 

I don't say what game is hardcore. And say about your playing.
And yes, Robotron isn't hardcore game. I remember it from one tournament. Unlucky I used kayboard during this tournament and my score was not high.

Why you say about Robotron only? Is it knows that you test P360s on this game only?

[KevSteele]

Destructor,

I play a ton of different games: schmups like Do Don Pachi, classics like Robotron, and more.

P360's are great, and I've played the hell out of them. My kids have as well (my youngest has even dangled from the cab holding on to just the joysticks). The P360's have held up fine, no crunching, smooth motion, easy diagonals.

We have a difference of opinion here. No right or wrong, but I stand by my review. You're free to disagree with me. 

[CheffoJeffo]

And yes, Robotron isn't hardcore game. I remember it from one tournament. Unlucky I used kayboard during this tournament and my score was not high.

Hardly a statement of qualificaton to evaluate whether the game is hard core or not. 

I, for one, would disagree with your assessment, but perhaps I am just too old or not as skilled as you.

Cheers.

[Keypel]

Looking at the video, I think I can see what's wrong -- the bushing (the small angled "washer") is installed upside down on the shaft. Flip it over, reinstall, and see if that fixes things. I had a crunchy noise once when I reinstalled the parts wrong. Did you get a schematic with the stick? Check the Happ site, they usually have assembly diagrams available in the parts listing.

KevSteele, That video was meant to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the pivot bushing is installed correctly.

Here is a picture of the assembly diagram:



And here is a picture from the video:



How can you say the pivot bushing is upside down?

I've spent the last three days taking this joystick apart , putting it back together, making 3d drawings, examining it, making videos, etc

The bottom line is the joystick I got was poorly made. The pivot bushing fits loosely around the shaft and the actuator was probably cut a few hairs to short as well. These two problems are causing the loosely fitted pivot bushing to shoot from side to side causing that snapping sound you heard in the vid .

I'd like to take it back but happ charged me $17.57 for S & H +tax on a $50 joystick. Now I'd have to pay to ship my old 360 back to them and hopefully wouldn't have to pay for them to ship me a new one. Then I'd be afraid of getting another p360 that came from the last manufacturing batch.

[destructor]

And yes, Robotron isn't hardcore game. I remember it from one tournament. Unlucky I used kayboard during this tournament and my score was not high.

Hardly a statement of qualificaton to evaluate whether the game is hard core or not. 

I, for one, would disagree with your assessment, but perhaps I am just too old or not as skilled as you.

Cheers.

Try to play on Zing Zing Zip. I still can understand how is possible to normal play on this game. Looks as simple shooter but in really it's ... hardcore?

KevSteele, I agree with introduction and instalation only

[KevSteele]

Keypel,

I'm not sure what to say is the problem - like I said, it could be a broken part. Another option is possibly a mis-matched part (i.e., a bushing from another model of joystick)

Whatever the reason, it most certainly is not working as it should. I know it'll cost you to mail it back, but an exchange is probably your best bet at this point, as it sounds like you've tried everything else.

[CheffoJeffo]

I still can understand how is possible to normal play on this game. Looks as simple shooter but in really it's ... hardcore?

You remember playing Robotron using a keyboard -- how can that possibly be a reasonable basis for evaluation ?

Cheers

[ahofle]

You should watch some of his MAME inp replays.  I would say he's one of the most qualified people on this board to speak to joystick performance and game 'hardcore-ness' (although Robotron is still hardcore hehe).  I'm not sure what he does for a living, but I wish I could play games 8 hours a day.

[kowal]

Kevin I like your reviews. But several mistakes are also.
P360 has tragical diagonals.
http://www.shoryuken.com/
read pleyers opinions about this joystick. All they have problem with diagonals.
Is hard to make low block/jump in fighters. Professional players do not play on P360, because he has bad diagonals. I bought P360 after reading review on Retroblast. I wanted to have joystick with good diagonals. And he acted how 4way   he cracked and had asymmetric throw! I have 4 P360. The same problem in every was. In different degree but he was.
You should repair this review. A lot of men read this review. Opposite situation is Mag-stick, sorry but You harmed this joystick. It was not it been possible to does not hit in diagonal on square restrictor  

Handle balltop is lower from battop-this is standart. Look on Japanese joysticks. He after installing shaft should stand on 2-3cm.

This SilkStick stands unnaturally high-4,5cm! it was not it been possible to play effectively-the level of hands is uneven (stic<--->buttons)

[KevSteele]

Kowal,

Like I said, we're going to have to agree to disagree here - I get great diagonals from the P360. You're obviously a fan of fighter games, which I don't play, so there's one reason for disagreement.

Same thing with the SlikStik sticks - just because a Japanese cab has them lower does not make that the "gold standard" height. The P360 review was with the included bat shafts, not the SlikStik balltop ones, which were added after the review was complete.

I stand by the review, and respectfully disagree with your opinions on the diagonals.

[destructor]

I still can understand how is possible to normal play on this game. Looks as simple shooter but in really it's ... hardcore?

You remember playing Robotron using a keyboard -- how can that possibly be a reasonable basis for evaluation ?

Cheers

1. Special prepared keyboard (not cheating or mapping keys otherwise). 'Prepared' keyboard for 2-joystick games isn't wrong. I won Inferno round in GEGOTW tournament using keyboard. Most my scores was made using keyboard until I buy first 'arcade' stick (X-Arcade ). In whole word is only one controller not for me (I don't know how to use it ) - game pad.
2. All (almost all) Golden Era games are for me ... patterns, I'm not happy when I must play again on old games where one problem only is found pattern for one stage and repeat it for others. For Robotron it's a bit harder because game is harder with every level, (it depends from live setting too) but it's boring still.

[destructor]

Kowal,

Like I said, we're going to have to agree to disagree here - I get great diagonals from the P360. You're obviously a fan of fighter games, which I don't play, so there's one reason for disagreement.

Same thing with the SlikStik sticks - just because a Japanese cab has them lower does not make that the "gold standard" height. The P360 review was with the included bat shafts, not the SlikStik balltop ones, which were added after the review was complete.

I stand by the review, and respectfully disagree with your opinions on the diagonals.

Did you create this reviews for you or for all players? Or maybe you are HAPP share-holder?
90% players say - diagonals are not easy
You and 10% players (maybe HAPP share-holders too ) say - diagonals are easy
What should be in review?

Or you can write in review: I and 10% players from world say that diagonals are easy, 90% players say that diagonals are hard.

[RetroJames]

Actually I reviewed the MagStik and I did have issues at first with hitting the diags but soon adjusted. I still use them today and have no problems at all hitting my mark.

There is a load of subjective material in your statements, something one has to watch out for when reviewing or commenting on controls. You may note I was very careful to frame my opinions as just that.

Aside from faulty craftsmanship, poor engineering, or poor manufacturing, if a stick is well made, whether or not you like it, or it is good for you, is VERY subjective. Height, ability to hit the diags, ball or bat, dustcover ontop or bottom, color, stiffness, throw, none of these can be considered good or bad overall unless there are extreme cases like you can't move the sick or whatever, they are all very much tied to personal taste, ability to adapt, and preference.

Always looking for a factual error to be fixed in reviews, but on the opinion and subjective side I too stand by anything I have written.

[RetroJames]

Kowal,

Like I said, we're going to have to agree to disagree here - I get great diagonals from the P360. You're obviously a fan of fighter games, which I don't play, so there's one reason for disagreement.

Same thing with the SlikStik sticks - just because a Japanese cab has them lower does not make that the "gold standard" height. The P360 review was with the included bat shafts, not the SlikStik balltop ones, which were added after the review was complete.

I stand by the review, and respectfully disagree with your opinions on the diagonals.

Did you create this reviews for you or for all players? Or maybe you are HAPP share-holder?
90% players say - diagonals are not easy
You and 10% players (maybe HAPP share-holders too ) say - diagonals are easy
What should be in review?

Or you can write in review: I and 10% players from world say that diagonals are easy, 90% players say that diagonals are hard.

Ok and now you pissed me off.

'Did you create this reviews for you or for all players? Or maybe you are HAPP share-holder? "

I'll thank you to apologize for that remark, it's a ---smurfy--- thing to say. We and the other contributors at RB write these reviews as subjectively as possible, based on our observations, experience, ability, and so forth. Even a hint that we pander to vendors at the expense of the readers really ticks me off. We all work too effing hard to keep RB going to have you or anyone else imply that we are colluding with vendors in our reviews.

[KevSteele]

Destructor:

You say 90% of players find diagonals hard on the P360?

I say that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot. 

[kowal]

Kevin you need not agree with me. But then many men's opinion. P360 has bad diagonals.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=57724.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=53037.0

you read  players opinions on SRK?
since this in fighter and shmups has weak diagonals it means that there are weak diagonals. You  not need play in fighters this your matter. If would had good diagonals it was given to play in all games. Not every will buy this joystick to Robotron.

professionals see defect this joystick. How you think who it is right. Do men which tournaments win or someone who plays 4fun in  house?

[RetroJames]

How you think who it is right. Do men which tournaments win or someone who plays 4fun in  house?

I think 90% of those who buy joysticks to make their own controls are "men which who someone plays 4fun in  house."

[2600]

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.




BTW, Keypel excellent use of the bathroom. 

[RetroJames]

The fact is the reviews are not written on behalf of 90% or 20% or shoe% of any group. They are written based on the experience, ability, preference, and observations of the reviewer. Note a kerjillion % of people that may or may not be in the room at the time of the review. 

I can hit the diagonals just fine in fighters and schmups and any other game I try with mag sticks. Maybe I'm just doing it right and your not?

[CheffoJeffo]

professionals see wade this joystick. How you think who it is right. Do men which tournaments win or someone who plays 4fun in  house?

An interesting point ... should reviews be written only for those who play professionally, or for the much larger population who don't ?

Something to ponder while you pontificate ...

Cheers.

[JackTucky]

Reviews are just opinion.  You either trus the opinion of the reviewer or you don't.

The OP should stop reading retroblast.  He has different opinions.

Most of us trust retroblast and KevSteel.  Just like we trust Rex Reed to give us movie reviews.

Jacktucky

[KevSteele]

Kowal,

It's blindingly obvious that I'm completely wrong, and my test results must have been made up out of thin air. I apparently don't even have P360s in my cab. I must not even own a cab. I'm not a man. My devious plan to boost Happ's stock prices has backfired.

I will pull down RetroBlast immediately.

 

(Opinions are like *******s, everyone's got one. You disagree with my opinion. I can live with that.)

[kowal]

Did someone read title of subject? Except me, nobody advised Kypel!
Guys you were not able
this is whole your knowledge, your only advice is.... RECLAMATION

[KevSteele]

We bow to you and your infinitely superior mind.

[nostrebor]

Did someone read title of subject? Except me, nobody advised Kypel!
Guys you were not able
this is whole your knowledge, your only advice is.... RECLAMATION

Speaking of advise... I've got some for both you and destructor. This is a forum of peers. Each of us deserve respect.

Kevin and James have both been extremely level headed and used the best of manners in responding to your comments. Even when directly called incompetent or a shill to big business. Both you and destructor have been (language barrier notwithstanding) rude and extremely arrogant. I suggest that you agree to disagree, and drop it. The holier-than-thou attitude is getting too deep to stir at this  point, and it is you and destructor who are quickly losing my respect in this discussion, irregardless of who is actually right about this rediculous debate..

[RetroJames]

Did someone read title of subject? Except me, nobody advised Kypel!
Guys you were not able
this is whole your knowledge, your only advice is.... RECLAMATION

Egads your right!


Keypel, forget retruning or replacing the defective stick. Here's what you need to do...


Get 2 gallons of crazy glue, then a bucket of nails, a metal file, a table saw, and a shoe horn.


Once you gather the materials I will post instructions for re-engineering, redesigning, and rebuilding your defective joysticks in a completely new configuration.

 

[kowal]

Time will verify this. Such men how Kypel it is more. I described problem and gave solution.
I finish this discussion

[RetroJames]

yes, clearly he should rebuild the sticks as described. Much easier and cheaper than replacing or returning them.

[miles2912]

I bought my perfect 360's based on the review at retroblast.    My sticks have conservatively over 200 hours of play on them with out a single performance related problem.  They are smooth and silent.  My fav game is twin cobra - 8 way shooter that needs a lot of diag movement.  I have never - repeat never had the stick miss or hickup. 

This is a year of playing experience talking here.  My buddies love the fighting games and they have never complained about not being able to make a move. 

One of my first P360s would not engage in one direction.  I called Happs and they took it back and sent me a new one.  I had to pay for shipping.  It was pretty steep if I remember $14 or so.  The replacement has been without issue.

The joystick I heard in the video has problems.  If you are sure that it is assembled correctly (I had a real hard time installing the final washer - your video made it look easy) then call Happs and send it back and eat shipping.  Life is too short to sweat a joystick.

D-

[kowal]

One of my first P360s would not engage in one direction. 

this is easy to reparation:
push led to centre

it usually helps (you save 14 $ 4 beer)

[JackTucky]

I bought my perfect 360's based on the review at retroblast.    My sticks have conservatively over 200 hours of play on them with out a single performance related problem.
D-

Uhh, harpel or karpel or whatever will get 200 hrs in one day!  You are not professional!     

I think Borat's character has some truth to it.  Is Europe holding Robotron tournaments?  That game is a bit old.  Are they also watching the premier of Caddyshack  in the theatres?

-J

[destructor]

I bought my P360 after reading RetroBlast review too. After first days of playing my opinion was that reviews is right. I never say that diagonals are mega hard. But what is possible that in RetroBlast review J-Stik and P360 diagonals have the same note? P360 diagonals are not easy as J-Stik, T-Stik, Mag-Stik or other joystick with square restrictor. Please use you brain and think how is possible to hit diagonal on circle restrictor easier than on square. Nobody is arrogant nostrebor, these are facts.

Destructor:

You say 90% of players find diagonals hard on the P360?

I say that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

As kowal say, please read opinions on this forum in other topics or on other forums, where are really good players. I use these opinions for this 90%.

Actually I reviewed the MagStik and I did have issues at first with hitting the diags but soon adjusted.

Can you say me what you adjusted in joystick with microswitches and square restrictor?

Uhh, harpel or karpel or whatever will get 200 hrs in one day!  You are not professional!   

Nobody say that hours of playing = strenght of player.
True is here: more hours you play = you know more about controller. But you must play seriously (not during party only ) and check all details.

[RobotronNut]

hi guys - i think i can shed some light on this debate by recounting my P360 journey...

i, too, bought P360's with slikstik handles, based on the retroblast review. i used them quite a bit and was happy with them. i'd routinely get into the 500K's in robotron, and my high score was in the low 600Ks.

over time, i began to become a little uneasy. usually, i'd be killed for "the right reasons" - got herded into a corner, was surrounded by a hail of guided missiles, etc. but sometimes i'd think "that wasn't my fault... i knew i needed to shoot in that direction, and i thought i was shooting in that direction, but the shots didn't go where i thought i was pointing the joystick."

then, i saw kowal's post about modding the P360's and decided try out his mods: smaller diameter actuator, shorter handle, lighter spring (the shorter handle gives you less leverage, and your stock spring feels much too strong).

these mods seem very subtle, almost imperceptible, under non-stress situations, like the early levels of robotron, but when things start to get really intense, they make a huge difference. i had the "shots didn't go where i thought i was aiming" experience a lot less, and i started thinking things like "wow, that was a very tight spot, and i'm used to getting killed in situations like that, but somehow i seem to be able to magically sneak out of these tight spots a lot more than i used to." now, i routinely get into 800K's and 900K's, and my high score is 1.3M.

thinking analytically about my game experiences, i realized "the shots didn't go where i thought i was pointing the joystick" was always when i was trying to shoot diagonally. sitting in a calm, near-empty screen on level one of robotron, testing out my joystick, sending shots in all directions, i would have said "the P360's diagonals are fine." but after playing extensively at high levels with and without kowal's mod, i am now convinced that a stock P360 doesn't have enough diagonal. if you took away my kowal-modded P360s, and i could only play with stock P360s, i'd start dying more often from missed diagonals and running out of lives in the 500K's again and i'd become frustrated and scream in disgust, "THESE STOCK P360S HAVE TERRIBLE DIAGONALS."

the same can be said for engagement, which is determined, on a P360, by the diameter of the actuator, the height and weight of the handle, and the strength of the spring. in robotron, engagement matters more for the left-hand (moving) joystick, than the right hand (firing) joystick. the faster engagement of my modded P360s translates into more precise movement and the experience of "i can sneak through tighter spots than i could before." initially, i had no complaints about the engagement of my stock P360s, but after playing with the tighter engagement of my modded P360s, i judge the stock P360s to engage too slowly.

getting back to the current debate, i fully understand why one side can say "stock P360s are great," and the other side can say "stock P360s are terrible," since i myself have held both positions. unfortunately, for kevin and james, i think kowal and destructor have the more "enlightened" position.

since i've realized that i can be happy with something, not knowing something better is out there, i don't assume that my current setup has achieved perfection either. perhaps something will come along that's even better. i'm currently playing with suzo inductives (with another kowal mod) and will probably try the U360s some day. i actually think it's possible to make "the ultimate" joystick; click here for details.

kevin - here's a challenge for you: the modded actuators are available very inexpensively from kowal, and ponyboy can sell you 4" wico handles and happ supers (to steal springs from) also inexpensively. give the kowal mods a try, and see if your opinion of the P360 changes. i'm sure your readers would find it most interesting.

or how about this: i have a pair of kowal-modded P360s and a pair of kowal-modded suzo inductives. if you'll buy me a pair of ball-top U360s with wiring harnesses and restrictor kits, i'll write you "the ultimate robotron joystick shootout" article 

[kowal]

angle of inclination P360 - 12 degree
crunching sound be generated on 10-11 degree.
shfat which comes in in base!
sfaft P360 has diameter -12,5mm
but metal slave has diameter - 11mm

the wider handle alters the angle of inclination.
angle changes from 12 (wood panel slave) on 8-9 degrees (metal panel slave)
on wider handle problem (crunching) is "masked" it he was generated on 10-11 degree - but still pivot is problem not shaft

the sticks SilkStick have 12,7 mm of diameter. joystick on them less crunching.

[CheffoJeffo]

As kowal say, please read opinions on this forum in other topics or on other forums, where are really good players. I use these opinions for this 90%.

Do you mean forums where folks are saying stuff like this:

Exactly. No one wants to argue about this stuff. And yes, there is room for personal preference here. Just because you bust out calipers and break it down to millimeters doesn't make you some kind of unbiased authority figure that everyone else should listen to.

Cheers

[destructor]

I don't say too much about kowal's mod P360. But if RobotronNut begins I can say that RetroBlast review is true for moded P360. RetroJames, try moding your P360, it's very easy, after it your scores will be higher and higher and then you will can say that P360 diagonals are easy and RetroBlast review is right.

And RobotronNut, U360 is incredible joystick, has some small faults (for me spring is wrong for shmup games only. I hear that for fighters 1vs1 something wrong is too, but I didn't test it) but is worth his price. You must try it! Really incredible.

[KevSteele]

RobotronNut,

Thanks for the informative and (dare I say it) friendly post. I certainly don't doubt that the P360 can be improved, and it sounds like the mod does expand the area that engages diagonals, plus lighter and shorter-throw joysticks always help with quick direction changes.

I certainly am always interested in joystick hacks and improvements. This whole conversation took a turn towards flamewar territory because I was basically accused of, well, lying and being a shill for Happs, and of posting inaccurate information, all because destructor disagreed with my opinion of the stock P360.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion...

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I know for a fact that RetroJames's reviews are written USING a Happs joystick, a few crappy microswitch buttons and some proprietary IM'ing software from GGG! MICROSWITCHES!! Why would he do that when it's obvious that many professional mens prefer leaf switches? Hmmm? And why wouldn't he just type them out using a keyboard like everyone else?

Why? Because Happs OWNZ him!! And if he doesn't respond to this message today, then we all know it's true.

Many mens await his reply!   *mrC taps foot... professionally*

mrC

[RetroJames!]

I know for a fact that RetroJames's reviews are written USING a Happs joystick, a few crappy microswitch buttons and some proprietary IM'ing software from GGG! MICROSWITCHES!! Why would he do that when it's obvious that many professional mens prefer leaf switches? Hmmm? And why wouldn't he just type them out using a keyboard like everyone else?

Why? Because Happs OWNZ him!! And if he doesn't respond to this message today, then we all know it's true.

Many mens await his reply!   *mrC taps foot... professionally*

mrC

Thought I was gone eh? Well pal I always keep an extra BYOAC login in my Retro Belt!

[Zakk]

Umm, I think he was talking to RetroJames, not you.


We are not fooled by your tricks HAPP!  Begone and show us the one true RetroJames! 

[RetroJames!]

I bought my P360 after reading RetroBlast review too. After first days of playing my opinion was that reviews is right. I never say that diagonals are mega hard. But what is possible that in RetroBlast review J-Stik and P360 diagonals have the same note? P360 diagonals are not easy as J-Stik, T-Stik, Mag-Stik or other joystick with square restrictor. Please use you brain and think how is possible to hit diagonal on circle restrictor easier than on square. Nobody is arrogant nostrebor, these are facts.

Destructor:

You say 90% of players find diagonals hard on the P360?

I say that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

As kowal say, please read opinions on this forum in other topics or on other forums, where are really good players. I use these opinions for this 90%.

Actually I reviewed the MagStik and I did have issues at first with hitting the diags but soon adjusted.

Can you say me what you adjusted in joystick with microswitches and square restrictor?

Uhh, harpel or karpel or whatever will get 200 hrs in one day!  You are not professional!   

Nobody say that hours of playing = strenght of player.
True is here: more hours you play = you know more about controller. But you must play seriously (not during party only ) and check all details.

Destructor,

On the "adjustment" portion, that refers to me adjusting to the new feel of the sticks as compared to Wicos which I was using beforehand. No change was made to the magSticks.

[RetroJames!]

Umm, I think he was talking to RetroJames, not you.


We are not fooled by your tricks HAPP!  Begone and show us the one true RetroJames! 

Oh it's me mr waspy gated community!

[Zakk]

I bought my P360 after reading RetroBlast review too. After first days of playing my opinion was that reviews is right. I never say that diagonals are mega hard. But what is possible that in RetroBlast review J-Stik and P360 diagonals have the same note? P360 diagonals are not easy as J-Stik, T-Stik, Mag-Stik or other joystick with square restrictor. Please use you brain and think how is possible to hit diagonal on circle restrictor easier than on square. Nobody is arrogant nostrebor, these are facts.

Destructor:

You say 90% of players find diagonals hard on the P360?

I say that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

As kowal say, please read opinions on this forum in other topics or on other forums, where are really good players. I use these opinions for this 90%.

Actually I reviewed the MagStik and I did have issues at first with hitting the diags but soon adjusted.

Can you say me what you adjusted in joystick with microswitches and square restrictor?

Uhh, harpel or karpel or whatever will get 200 hrs in one day!  You are not professional!   

Nobody say that hours of playing = strenght of player.
True is here: more hours you play = you know more about controller. But you must play seriously (not during party only ) and check all details.

Destructor,

On the "adjustment" portion, that refers to me adjusting to the new feel of the sticks as compared to Wicos which I was using beforehand. No change was made to the magSticks.

He can see through your web of lies, oh HAPP employee.  You are just digging yourself in deeper.  None of this will be resolved until RetroJames speaks up for himself.  Next you'll be trying to convince us that you're really him, and NOT a HAPP insider!  If that's the case, why will he not speak?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Thought I was gone eh?

Is this the magazine talking?


Oh, btw, here's James' new uniform:

[Zakk]

Heyyyyyy.  There was a tattooed guy wearing one of those shirts skulking around my bushes.  He didn't have a lightsaber, so I just gave him a dollar and went on inside.  But it couldn't have been James with all those tattoos, right? 

[RetroJames!]

I look nothing like that.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Damn, he posted. Must be because Sir Woogie is owned by Happ now too.   


mrC

[RetroJames!]

Does that mean no one can log into the Happ site now either? 

[Zakk]

Wait!  The HAPP guy just renamed his account to RetroJames with a clever "!" on the end!  Shenanigans!  What have you done with the RJ with the eleventyzillion posts?

DAMN YOU EVIL HAPP OVERLORD!

[goldznnz]

im glad this info on this subject is still archived

I've been around a long time since wico p360 days, and then happ's aquisition of p360, and its slow demise, which really saddens me til this day 

I want to re-assure all those that have these crunchy, grindy, poppy perfect 360's, n bad diagnols/inputs  YOUR PROBLMES ARE REAL!

I've been through them all and have some fixes and some temp fixes and other solutions.  Im only making this post as the P360 is an awesome stick when it is working correctly and would hate for my peddly knowledge to be forever forgotten.

I will update this thread with my problems and fixes, aloha

[Zakk]

OMG I was so young back then.