Author Topic: Questions about: Converting Original Arcade to Mame (Read 3290 times)

Flip_Willie · « **on:** July 29, 2006, 02:05:23 am »

Hello,

Foremost, I would like to say that I am fairly new to arcades so please correct me if I say anything stupid. (And please bear with me)

~My Introduction

I recently purchased a used, but working Tekken 2 (Picture Below). Since the beginning I have wanted to "Mame" it, but I wanted to utilize as much of the original machine as possible. From what I read, it seems that the best way to do that is by buying a J-Pac and an Arcade VGA from ultimarc.com. If I am not mistaken, the J-Pac will translate all the controls from my Jamma Harness (I will have to re-wire all the kick harness keys, not very hard), and the Arcade VGA should successfully take care of the monitor. I have already decided that, in order to avoid complication, I will just use some pc speakers to take care of the sound. I have a diagram below of how I plan to hook it all up.

~My Question.

My question is about power issues (Diagram Shown Below). If I am using a pc and the original monitor, can I successfully use the original arcade power supply to power the monitor & marquee and a second pc power supply for my computer? At the moment, just plugging the arcade into the wall turns it on (it has a switch but it is held down by the back panel). What I am planning to do is plug both the arcade power supply and my pc power supply into a strip cord and from there activate the machine by

(1). Flipping the strip cords switch and/or plugging the strip cord into the wall.
(2). Boot up my machine.

If all worked, if that is possible, flipping on the power should safely turn on the monitor (no image at this point, obviously) and the marquee. Then, I could power my pc.

I apologize I am incoherent in anyway. I hope that my pictures will add clarification.

Any and all help/advice is appreciated.

Just as it is,
Flip_Willie

RayB · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2006, 01:42:39 pm »

I've only made a casual glance, but the bottom line is you NEED to keep the isolation transformer to power the monitor. But I would caution against keeping the original power supply "on" at the same time as the PC is on. You should only power one or the other.

Oh and the monitor power does NOT come off the power supply. You may want to recheck the wiring and you should see that the AC in splits off and goes to the power supply, and a second set of wires would go to the isolation transformer, from which the monitor gets power.

Edit: I've struck out the above because his cabinet does not appear to be a standard JAMMA set up. Even Bob Roberts' diagram doesn't really apply here...

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2006, 03:59:36 pm »

Ok,

~Question

If I should not use the Arcade Power supply and a Pc power supply in conjunction, then how do I power my monitor, marquee, and pc at the same time? Do I need a special power supply that can power both my monitor and my Pc?

~To RayB

Thanks you very much for your help, but I have a question about your statement concerning the AC in. As far as I can tell, I plug the power supply into the wall and that plugs straight into my power supply. I am sure you are correct, but what am I missing??
(Picture of my Power Supply below.)

~Extra Information

First, this is the isolation Transformer, correct? (1st Picture below. The thing underneath the monitor) If that is the isolation transformer, I wasn't planning on removing it. (I know, I didn't show the wire going from my amp to the transformer then to the monitor on my diagram, sorry. My bad.) :

krick · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2006, 04:18:39 pm »

Not sure about your specific setup but typically, the monitor and marquee are powered directly from your 120V AC. The cabinet power supply provides DC voltages for the JAMMA board. If you don't have a JAMMA board, you don't need the cabinet power supply. In fact, leaving the cabinet power supply connected without having a JAMMA board connected to it (no load) creates a fire hazard.

Here's an AC wiring diagram courtesy of Bob Roberts...

... notice that the "switching power supply" on the left? That can be completely removed and the monitor and marquee will still work.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2006, 05:21:51 pm »

Thanks for posting Krick.

Yea, I don't believe mine looks like that at all. I have some pictures below, and a new diagram I drew up.

Any suggestions??

Thanks.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #5 on:** July 29, 2006, 06:30:28 pm »

Before going into the pc power supply part of it.... lets clarify the isolation transformer for the monitor. (that's very important as already mentioned)

Can you take a pic or mark on one you already have as to what YOU are calling the isolation transformer?
Because the part you have marked as AMP I believe is actually the isolation transformer you need. The purple and white wires appear to go from the "amp" straight up to the monitor.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2006, 07:22:28 pm »

Hey,

Thank you for posting Kevin, I appreciate it.

Yea, I am probably wrong. (Pictures below) In the first picture, the yellow arrow line points to what I thought was an amp of some kind for the monitor, but, as you said, it is probably the isolated transformer (That would make sense, because it is isolated. Misconception on my part, sorry.). The red line points to what I thought was the isolated transformer. So basically, I thought the piece underneath the monitor was the isolated transformer.

If it is as you say, and what I thought was the amp is actually the isolated transformer then yes, the purple and white wires go straight from the isolated transformer and to the monitor as you pointed out.
New diagram below.

Thank you for correcting me on that. (I feel stupid.) :

Paladin · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2006, 12:03:59 am »

Everybody has to start somewhere, don't sweat it! At least you're asking questions first instead of just plugging things in without a clue what you're doing!

What you are currently calling the "amp" at the bottom of the cab is indeed the isolation transformer. The part you label in red as the transformer is the monitor chassis.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2006, 01:15:41 am »

Hey,

Thanks for the encouragement paladin.

So, from the pictures I posted earlier, can anybody tell me if I have a different power setup than the one Krick suggested? It looks like it to me, but I could be missing something.

Either way, I still need a method to power my pc and monitor in my cabinet. I am open to any kind of help possible.

I am in no rush, and haven't bought anything yet (except the cabinet of course).

For those who don't want to read all the previous posts, this is my problem:

I recently bought a working Tekken 2 arcade cabinet and want to convert it to Mame. I decided that to do this I would buy J-Pac, and Arcade VGA and use them in conjunction with my pc (Seeing that it seems to be the easiest way to do it). But RayB informed me that I shouldn't use the arcade power supply and a pc power supply together. So, I need some way to power my pc and the monitor. Krick posted an AC wiring diagram, but I believe mine is different from his. As Krick mentioned, in his diagram, you could completely remove the power supply and the monitor and marquee would still receive power. But in mine, the AC in seems to go straight from the wall to the power supply. Thus the power supply seems to be functioning as the main hub for all power. From the power supply, wires split off into these three directions:

(1). To the Jamma Harness.
(2). To the Isolation Transformer, then to the monitor.
(3). To the on/off switch and marquee.

In each direction there is Molex that would allow me to disconnect any section I want. (I corrected my power diagram and it is in post number 6. It vaguely outlines where my power is going.)

Thanks, once again.

RayB · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2006, 12:15:07 pm »

OK this is a tricky one. I am experienced with pre-90's cabinets. Yours is different than the standard "jamma" set up. You seem to have a "special" power supply that takes care of ALL power (AC and DC). This is unusual.

I'll step out of advising here and let someone who's seen one of those help you out...

PS: You should let us know if you intend to keep the machine capable of playing JAMMA games, or if you will be strictly using MAME?

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:13:56 pm »

Thanks for posting again RayB.

Yea, I had wanted to keep it capable of playing Tekken 2. (Since there is no working rom of Tekken 2. I couldn

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:40:37 pm »

Konami had a number of four player games it could have been.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Run and Gun 2, and so on.
Which is good though, you may want to use the four player setup that is already there for the most part and just add to it as needed.

No problem helping ya out... we all started somewhere, and I've seen many monitors go up in smoke because they didn't think they needed that part. So I wanted to clarify that isolation transformer. By the way... the pics and graphics help ALOT in aiding you, I think everyone here appreciates that.

Quote from: RayB on July 30, 2006, 12:15:07 pm

Yours is different than the standard "jamma" set up. You seem to have a "special" power supply that takes care of ALL power (AC and DC). This is unusual.

I have one of those in my Captain America cab.
It's essentially the same thing.... switching power supply, emi filter, fuse, 120v tap for the monitor.....just all in one nifty package. (kinda like a pc power supply)

Quote

You should let us know if you intend to keep the machine capable of playing JAMMA games, or if you will be strictly using MAME?

That's a very good point. There are several options on how to go about doing what you want. But knowing if your "sole" purpose is to MAME it or to keep the JAMMA setup as well. Having both is a bit more difficult and could get quite complicated.
There's probably a half dozen opinions on how to go about doing it, so be open to the options.
Do plan on just building a pc in a case and simply sticking it in there, or will you have individual components mounted in there somehow?
But it also depends on your personal skill level as far as re-wiring, soldering, and all that good stuff. So give us an idea on those aspects as well....

A general idea of what you have in the cab right now to get kinda familiar with it:

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:46:26 pm »

Oh.... and the JAMMA pinout to show ya that there are actually multiple +5V and grounds.
Two of them are +12v , etc.
http://www.coin.demon.co.uk/jamma.htm

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2006, 04:26:14 pm »

Hey,

Thanks for all your help Kevin.

~Just to be a bit more specific....

I could have misread your message, but I think I might have led you astray on the control panel. It "was" a four player setup. (4 joys, and 2 buttons apiece. I can tell because there are a lot of empty holes on the underside of the panel. Pictures Below.) This actually makes me mad, because I would have much prefered TMNT or Sunset Riders over Tekken 2, although Tekken 2 is good also. It is now a two player panel, 2 Joys and 4 buttons apiece. Of course, since Tekken is only a 4 button game, I will have to drill 4 extra holes eventually, but I will get the rest working first before I do any of that.

~On a side note.

I am glad you appreciate my pictures. I am more than glad to provide them. Thanks for the clarification on my power diagram, Kevin. I thought about labeling them, but wasn't sure what they all were. :

NightGod · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2006, 05:13:16 pm »

On the drive mounting thing, alot of people have had luck with either ripping apart an old case and taking the drive cage out of it or using pipe strapping (which is metal ribbon with holes punched in it every inch or so).

Just a couple ideas that have worked for people in the past.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2006, 11:15:52 pm »

Hey,

Thanks for the advice NightGod. That is a pretty good idea. In fact, just recently I "Recovered" an ATX case out of my neighbor

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2006, 12:24:54 am »

Quote

(Thus eliminating the possibility of taking it completely out. See pictures above.)

It IS possible to completely remove it and replace it with the ATX power supply....it's just going to take a little more skill, soldering, wiring, and re-routing of a few key components. Mostly the 120v for the monitor and on/off switch.
It can all we wired to run on the existing cab on/off switch if you would like.
(another small button may still be needed to boot the pc though)

But I'd plan on making this cab purely a MAME cabinet and not worry about the JAMMA part of it. It will make things alot easier in the long run.

Do you already have the pc ATX power supply handy that you will be using?

If so.... take the top off it and the one that's in your cabinet now and get a couple good fairly close pictures looking straight down at them showing as much as possible.
This may all take a little to point everything out to ya......but it's very possible.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2006, 12:46:49 pm »

Hey,

If you think that it will be easier to forget about keeping the jamma, then that is what I will do. (I will just keep the PCB and use it if I ever get another Jamma Cabinet.)

No, I haven't already purchased a ATX power supply. If there are any you would prefer me use, I will get that, but otherwise I will just get a normal one. (I have a few old ones I can get my hands on.)

I will try to get some pictures of my current arcade power supply sometime this afternoon, though.

Thanks again.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2006, 03:01:06 pm »

As far as the ATX power supply..... just whichever one you plan to use when you build this cab is the one we'll be interested in. Your choice.

pointdablame · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2006, 03:18:59 pm »

If you'd really like to simplify things, you could just buy a new Isolation transformer and run your monitor off of that, thus eliminating the integrated power supply. I have an Xmen cab similar to your cab that I plan to MAME soon, and that is what I will likely do if I don't want to keep JAMMA functionality. You could then use the PC Power supply to power your PC, and attach any other parts to the strip as well (PC speakers, marquee light if you don't keep the one you have, etc etc). This way, you no longer have to worry about that power supply.

ahofle · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2006, 03:37:52 pm »

Quote from: Flip_Willie on July 30, 2006, 02:13:56 pm

Yea, I had wanted to keep it capable of playing Tekken 2. (Since there is no working rom of Tekken 2. I couldn

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2006, 05:29:20 pm »

Hey,

Well, that sounds easier. If this would be easier, where would I buy a new isolation transformer?

Aholfe, hey thanks, I will try that out later. :

pointdablame · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2006, 12:46:48 pm »

Happcontrols will have them I'm sure, and people are always selling them on ebay.

if Happ does carry them, Divemaster or PonyBoy here in the B/S/T forums could probably get you one for less, and without the order minimums.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:44:57 pm »

Hey,

I am still confused as which option is better, modifying a power supply or using a new isolation transformer.

Using a new isolation transformer sounds easier; of course, I don't know what I would have to do to get that working. (A picture below shows what I am "THINKING" you mean).

If I were to do the "Isolation transformer" method, would I need to buy a new isolation transformer? Or could I possibly utilize my old one. Also, if I used this method, would keeping the Jamma be possible? (Shown in Picture).

Not that I don't think that pointdablame is correct, but I would like to know what Kevin thinks is the best method. (Since he has be helping me a lot along the way) :

pointdablame · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:47:10 pm »

To be honest, I haven't even looked in my Xmen yet to decide exactly what I'm going to do. IF there is a way to use the iso in there now independently and hook it directly to an AC plug like in your picture, then you should be able to use your current isolation transformer. I only said get a new one as a way to explain my idea of using ONLY an iso, and not the power supply.

If the iso you have now is wired in a way that doesn't easily allow you to hook up a plug to it, I'd get a new one as they're pretty cheap. If it's possible to do (again, I didn't play around in my cab yet), then just use the one you have and eliminate the power supply.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2006, 08:44:03 pm »

There is no absolute "right" way..... so everyones opinion should be looked at.

As far as the isolation transformer goes..... use your old one. Even if you bought a new one you would still have to wire it in anyways. The one you have is already there.

My point of keeping the old power supply in there is simply because it's already setup for the monitor's isolation transforemer, an EMI filter, cabinet switch, fuse/breaker, and all that sort of stuff that you will then need to rig up if you take it out completely.

As far as putting a power strip in there to run the pc or any other pc related equipment..... you should be able to tap into the 120 right inside that original power supply, then it would all still operate on the original cabinet switch as well. (don't even need a smart strip) Flip the existing cabinet switch and everything comes on, except maybe pushing a button to boot the pc which is typical anyways.

Eliminating the original power supply would also mean that you would then still have to wire up another power supply in order to use the Jamma harness for Jamma boards because they will require the DC voltages.
The Jpac doesn't need any of those DC voltages and they recommend removing the original power supply, but that's really only if you plan to have just MAME in there.
(less clutter so to speak)
It doesn't hurt to leave it in beacause none of the jamma voltage pins are even used on the Jpac while it's plugged in.

So going from a JAMMA cab to a MAME cab and back would then simply be a matter of unplugging the Jpac and plugging your JAMMA boards in and vice versa.

And as far as MAME and the PC goes if the only thing you find that you need to plug in is the actual pc power supply then you may be able to just plug it into the existing power supply without doing anything to it. Just depends on how much "other" stuff you plan on plugging in as to whether you need a power strip at all. And if it's just the pc power supply then I don't think it should draw more than the auxillary outlet is rated for. (see pic below) Either way you look at it, both the original power supply and the pc power supply will not be running at the same time even though they are both there. The outlet on the outside is usually underated because it's a cheesy cheap outlet, if you harwire to the inside it should do just fine.

I'll open one of mine up and take a pic of it and point out the few known things to consider. (if my crappy camera will get a decent shot indoors) Your pictures have been great to work with.

I'm sure I whizzed right over several details, but to give a general idea that everyone can come up with a method of doing things. You just have to take it all in consideration and develope your own plan of attack. Pop the top open on your cab power supply and take a peek in there. (nothing fancy there)

krick · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2006, 09:19:39 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on August 02, 2006, 08:44:03 pm

Eliminating the original power supply would also mean that you would then still have to wire up another power supply in order to use the Jamma harness for Jamma boards because they will require the DC voltages.
The Jpac doesn't need any of those DC voltages and they recommend removing the original power supply, but that's really only if you plan to have just MAME in there.
(less clutter so to speak)
It doesn't hurt to leave it in beacause none of the jamma voltage pins are even used on the Jpac while it's plugged in.

I think you should keep the original power supply if possible so that you can easily convert it back to JAMMA.

However there are two problems with leaving it in the cabinet and powered:

1) If the power supply has no DC load, it will likely burn up. DC coin door lighting is not sufficient load. Also, attempting to power your PC's DC needs from the cabinet power supply is a bad idea in more ways than I can count.

2) having live DC voltages in the jamma harness, even if unused can be a problem since you can accidentally plug the jamma harness in the wrong way (if there's no key) and fry your JPAC.

These two reasons are the primary reasons that Andy at Ultimarc recommends totally disconnecting the cabinet DC power supply.

If you're good with electronics, you maybe able to modify your cabinet power supply and add a switch to it that cuts the internal AC circuit that feeds the AC to DC converters but that may be a lot of work. That's what I would try since I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron.

If you're not up to that, you should use Bob Robert's AC wiring map as a blueprint and rewire your cabinet so that you bypass the original power supply totally (but leave it installed) and use your original power switch, isolation transformer, etc... You may need to pick up a "power distribution block" and a "filter" as they're probably integrated into your cabinet power supply. Bob sells them both, along with just about every other part you could need for wiring a cabinet... http://homearcade.org/BBBB/parts.html

It will probably take a little creativity on your part but I'm sure you can handle it. You seem to be an exacting kind of fellow and I'm sure you'll figure out a slick solution. Resist the urge to rip it all out and hack something crappy together.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #27 on:** August 03, 2006, 09:14:51 pm »

Ok,

I have thought over the two choices you gave me, Krick. (Making a switch for my arcade power supply to shut off the DC, or just using Bob Robert's plan).

I have decided not to try and modify my arcade power supply, for a few reasons:

(1). Although I am sure you guys could "show" me how, I might mess it up myself. :

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2006, 12:16:58 am »

Quote from: Flip_Willie on August 03, 2006, 09:14:51 pm

I have omitted the marquee light for now
It just ties in on the same side of the distirbution block as the isolation transformer.

(1). I would just use the power switch on the power strip.
Yes...that's just fine.

(2).Does anyone have an Idea of what the third one is for?
Ground

(3).*Edit* Stupid me, "der der der"

(4). I suppose I will need to buy Bob's "AC line filter .25 tabs" and his "AC power distribution block .187 tabs."
Probably be cheaper to get them from him while your at it.

(5). What type of fuse would I need?
When you e-mail Bob with your list, tell him a brief idea of what your doing, reference his diagram, and ask him to hook you up with the proper fuse and fuse holder.
(he's a good guy like that)

(6). I suppose I could see if I could find Molex that would fit the one seen in the second picture. This way it would be interchangeable.
If you plan on keeping that power supply untouched or mutalated for future use then yes.

Hopefully, I will soon be able to stop bugging you guys with my questions.
Never... otherwise we'd have no reason to come back.

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #29 on:** August 07, 2006, 05:28:42 pm »

Just one more question. :

Flip_Willie · « **Reply #30 on:** August 10, 2006, 12:08:03 am »

Just thought I would facilitate my last question by posting a new picture.

I think all I need to know now is what to wire for the ground on my isolation transformer. (Seen on picture). If all this looks correct to you guys, then I will go ahead and buy the stuff.

Thanks for being so helpful.

:


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