Ultimarc ArcadeVGA PCI-E - Was I the only one who missed this?

[Circo]

Andy finally came out with a PCI-E version of his Arcade VGA card.  I did a search but it wasn't working, so my apologies if this was already brought up.  Way to go andy!  You need to add that it supports 1024x768 just fine with a Billabs monitor though

While the X550 chipset from ATI is no barnburner it is a pretty nice little card.  I may be getting my 3rd AVGA card here shortly, damn you Andy!!!!



# Displays all boot, DOS and Windows screens on the arcade monitor and/or PC monitor. Displays Windows desktop in a choice of resolutions including interlaced and non-interlaced.
# Connect an ordinary PC monitor, or an arcade monitor, or both at the same time
# Allows DOS MAME or MAME32 to run almost all games at their native resolutions without hardware stretching, scan converters or other degradation.
# All the native game resolutions are available on bith the arcade and the PC monitor.
# Emulates the original game board's graphics hardware closer than has ever been possible before.
# Contains 28 built-in 15Khz video graphics modes tailored specially for emulation. All of these modes also available on a PC monitor.
# All 240-line modes have an exact 60Hz vertical refresh rate for best performance in scrolling games.
# Special 300 X 256 Mode timed at 53Hz vertical for games such as Mortal Kombat .
# When used with arcade monitor, all video modes timed at 15.7 Khz horizontal frequency to eliminate picture shifting on mode changes.
# Also contains all standard VGA graphics and text modes, running at 15Khz. On arcade monitors. text screens display the full 25 lines without interlace using a special reduced-height font.
# All special modes available in Windows XP, Windows 2000 at all colour depths. NOTE Windows 98 is not supported.
# Desktop rotation supported in Windows for vertically-mounted monitors in Windows XP and 2000.
# Choice of Windows desktop resolutions including interlaced and non-interlaced modes. Can be assigned hot-keys .
# Virtual-desktop mode supported in XP and 2000, so you can run a desktop of 1024 X 768 and auto-pan.
# No MAME monitor configuration necessary, no need even to tell MAME you have an arcade monitor.
# Run any Windows application which can use 640X480 or 800X600 on your arcade monitor including 3D games.
# On PC monitors, all the native game resolutions are available, plus conventional Windows resolutions.
# All modes locked with vertical and horizontal negative sync for easy connection via a direct cable.
# Choice of available connection methods, Via J-PAC, Via Video Amp, or Direct Cable connect.
# Powerful ATI Radeon 9250 AGP or Radeon X550 PCIe chipset for great performance in 3D games as well as emulation

[kujina]

Andy finally came out with a PCI-E version of his Arcade VGA card.  I did a search but it wasn't working, so my apologies if this was already brought up.  Way to go andy!  You need to add that it supports 1024x768 just fine with a Billabs monitor though

While the X550 chipset from ATI is no barnburner it is a pretty nice little card.  I may be getting my 3rd AVGA card here shortly, damn you Andy!!!!



# Displays all boot, DOS and Windows screens on the arcade monitor and/or PC monitor. Displays Windows desktop in a choice of resolutions including interlaced and non-interlaced.
# Connect an ordinary PC monitor, or an arcade monitor, or both at the same time
# Allows DOS MAME or MAME32 to run almost all games at their native resolutions without hardware stretching, scan converters or other degradation.
# All the native game resolutions are available on both the arcade and the PC monitor.
# Emulates the original game board's graphics hardware closer than has ever been possible before.
# Contains 28 built-in 15Khz video graphics modes tailored specially for emulation. All of these modes also available on a PC monitor.
# All 240-line modes have an exact 60Hz vertical refresh rate for best performance in scrolling games.
# Special 300 X 256 Mode timed at 53Hz vertical for games such as Mortal Kombat .
# When used with arcade monitor, all video modes timed at 15.7 Khz horizontal frequency to eliminate picture shifting on mode changes.
# Also contains all standard VGA graphics and text modes, running at 15Khz. On arcade monitors. text screens display the full 25 lines without interlace using a special reduced-height font.
# All special modes available in Windows XP, Windows 2000 at all colour depths. NOTE Windows 98 is not supported.
# Desktop rotation supported in Windows for vertically-mounted monitors in Windows XP and 2000.
# Choice of Windows desktop resolutions including interlaced and non-interlaced modes. Can be assigned hot-keys .
# Virtual-desktop mode supported in XP and 2000, so you can run a desktop of 1024 X 768 and auto-pan.
# No MAME monitor configuration necessary, no need even to tell MAME you have an arcade monitor.
# Run any Windows application which can use 640X480 or 800X600 on your arcade monitor including 3D games.
# On PC monitors, all the native game resolutions are available, plus conventional Windows resolutions.
# All modes locked with vertical and horizontal negative sync for easy connection via a direct cable.
# Choice of available connection methods, Via J-PAC, Via Video Amp, or Direct Cable connect.
# Powerful ATI Radeon 9250 AGP or Radeon X550 PCIe chipset for great performance in 3D games as well as emulation

Wow please tell us more about the statements in bold, Andy?

[krick]

# All the native game resolutions are available on both the arcade and the PC monitor.

# On PC monitors, all the native game resolutions are available, plus conventional Windows resolutions.

Wow please tell us more about the statements in bold, Andy?

I seem to remember someone saying that you can run low arcade resolutions on a PC monitor as long as you double the refresh rate to like 120Hz or something.  I'm guessing that's what's happening here. 

[Moby Ick]

The Ultimate Video card for 15Khz Arcade Monitors
NOW ALSO FOR PC MONITORS!
FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, RUN CLASSIC GAMES IN THEIR NATIVE RESOLUTIONS ON A PC SVGA MONITOR IN WINDOWS!
INCLUDES CRT AND LCD (DVI) DIGITAL MONITORS.
The picture quality has to be seen to be believed!

So it will work with an LCD monitor? I'm confused, i thought LCD's couldn't display 15Khz? It sure would be nice to put together a mini Cab with an LCD...

[krick]

So it will work with an LCD monitor? I'm confused, i thought LCD's couldn't display 15Khz?

They can't.  LCDs are typically fixed at 50-75Hz.


I'm pretty sure what andy is doing is dependent on the refresh rate of the PC monitor.

Check out this post...

http://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=197012&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=7#Post197012

[MartyNg]

For those of you that are upgrading, hit me up with a PM if you want to sell your older AGP version!

[AndyWarne]

On a PC monitor the scan rate is 31Khz. The way it works depends on whether a CRT or LCD is being used.
On a CRT, each line is scanned twice. This is barely visible and you simply end up with ultra-sharp graphics compared to using hardware stretch. Another benefit is an exact 60Hz vertical refresh rate which overcomes the tearing effect on scrolling games.
On an LCD things get really interesting. Because an LCD does not scan, you end up with a picture which looks like it was taken from the original game designers drawing of the pixels! It really is something else. I have to admit it's not really arcade-real as it is just so perfect. There is none of the color fringing or blurred edges you get with hardware stretch, just perfectly-edged blocks of pure color.
Also, on a DVI screen, because these screens automatically fit the picture to the screen in every resolution, the picture size is always correct.
Incidentally the new card also supports 25Khz for multi-sync monitors.
The picture on the website shows the old card, will update in the next few days. The AGP version of the card, still 9250-based, will be launched first followed by the PCIe at the end of this month.

[Lilwolf]

SHHWWINNG on the med resolution monitor support!  VERY COOL!

[Ninten-doh]

I'm getting pretty excited about how this might work with my 21" PC monitor.  I hope Andy has the time to add some screen shots to his site.

[krick]

On an LCD things get really interesting.

I have an NEC Multi-Sync analog LCD.  It's frequency range is like 50-75Hz.  I wonder how this would work.

Regardless, put me down for one of the new AGP models when they're ready.  I look forward to experimenting with it.


BTW, you're still not open to the idea of a PCI version, are you?

If there was a PCI version, you could set up a multi-monitor arcade cabinet. Also, it would work in any* motherboard, including mini-itx and SFF machines.

* assuming the board supports the minimum PCI revision for the card.

[MaximRecoil]

Does this mean that you can finally properly emulate the Nintendo dual monitor machines, such as Punch-Out?

If you had two of these PCI-E cards, and a motherboard with dual PCI-E video card slots, and with MAME now supporting dual monitor output, wouldn't it be able to work as a drop-in replacement for the original gameboard in a Punch-Out cabinet with its original Sanyo monitors?

Of course, in such a case it would be cheaper and more accurate to just buy real gameboards but it does seem to open up the possibility of making general purpose MAME machines that have dual standard resolution arcade monitors and being able to run dual monitor games in their native resolutions on real arcade monitors in addition to being able to run all the single monitor games just as well.

[Popcorrin]

Andy, you said that the card supports 25kHz.  Is it possible to boot at this scan rate for monitors that are strictly medium resolution.

[johnvv]

A question for those far more knowledgeable on this topic or doing pre/review of the new card...

With all the new features, what advantages are there to using an arcade monitor (Betson, Billabs, WG) versus a multi-sync PC monitor or LCD panel ?

I understand what Andy notes about image quality on an LCD and the following point:

# When used with arcade monitor, all video modes timed at 15.7 Khz horizontal frequency to eliminate picture shifting on mode changes.

Clearly, the old AVGA card and an arcade monitor was the best 'true arcade video' setup.  How does that change with the new card?  For the price of 27" arcade monitor ($500-600), you can get a pretty good size DVI LCD panel...

[squirrellydw]

I wish I could go down to the store to see how this would look and compare and arcade monitor to an LCD monitor with this card.

[AndyWarne]

I have not tested using two of the cards yet but theoretically it should be possible.
Medium-res monitors: The card does not really support med-res monitors although with some care they could be used. Medium res monitors are not very good for Mame at all as they really only support the few games which originally used them. You cant run the more common resolutions and also cant do 640 X 480 for a Windows desktop.
There are two 25Khz resolutions on the new card, which are designed for use with the D9200 and similar. A D9200 would boot up in 15Khz mode and when Windows starts, would switch to 31Khz for the desktop. Then, any 25Khz games would use one of the two 25k resolutions. So if you connect a 25k-only monitor, there would be no boot screen and you would be able to use ony two of the resolutions in Windows. This is not really a limitation of the card, but of a 25K monitor.

About the merits of a real multi-sync monitor vs LCD, well it's like comparing chalk and cheese. A D9200-type monitor will give a 100% authentic arcade experience and an LCD will not.
The difference between an LCD when used with an ordinary card and the ArcadeVGA 2 is a matter of picture quality, not really a question of how arcade-real it is, since neither option on an LCD is very arcade-real.
But on the other side of the coin, an LCD used with the new card is quite dramatic and it puts a different slant on the issue. Maybe not arcade-real but great for a really impressive looking cabinet.
Andy

[Popcorrin]

Previously I used powerstrip with my med. resolution monitor and stretched all the games and to tell you the truth it didn't look all that bad.  The only problem is that powerstrip doesn't work with all chipsets and it can be a pain to set up.   I thought your card would take the work out of it.  What med. resolutions does it support?

[Lilwolf]

I think the issue is more that if your going to spend the money, you probably want 1-1 pixel as much as possible.  Stretchign to a med resolution is probably better then stretching to a VGA, but you probably would rather get a standard resolution and stretch the med resolution games instead.

I was thinking about the monitors that are both standard, med and vga would be amazing.... but don't these require some dip switch changes to go between standard / med resolution?  Don't have one so never played with it.

[krick]

I was thinking about the monitors that are both standard, med and vga would be amazing.

You've just described the Wells-Gardner D9200.  It's a 15/25/31KHz tri-sync monitor.

[ahofle]

I hope someone puts up some comparison pictures of LCDs, PC monitors, and arcade monitors before and after the new arcadeVGA is hooked up.  I'm not really understanding how the LCD/PC CRT image can look 'better' if it has perfectly-edged blocks.  Is this any different than the image if you turned off hardware stretch?  I think the blurred hardware stretch looks better on those types of displays personally (but not on real arcade monitors or TVs of course).

[horseboy]

So, will this thing work with a TV?

[PacMon]

Wow!  I'll be buying that card for sure.  I'm currently building a second pc and this will do nicely for my arcade cab.  Thanks Andy!

[AndyWarne]

The 25 Khz resolutions it supports are 512 X 384 and 448 X 384. These should cover all 25Khz games pretty well. Of course you can run any other game at either of these resolutions by turning on hardware stretch.

TVs: As with the currect card the ArcadeVGA 2 will treat a SCART RGB European TV as an arcade monitor and display an identical picture to a real arcade monitor, provided the TV can be adjusted to eliminate overscan, which most can.
TVs used via S-Video or RCA cannot display any games at their native resolutions as they will simply display a TV picture (625 or 525 line interlaced) all of the time, ie not a great picture.
I have spend ages trying to get pictures of the LCD screen running Galaga but just simply failed to capture the quality. I have given up on this now. Seems taking pics of anything that emits light as opposed to reflects, is not possible without blurring. Unless anyone has any ideas..
Andy

[ahofle]

Have you tried using manual focus and macro mode so you can get close (usually a little flower icon on the camera)?

[pointdablame]

If you have them available, a tripod and remote shutter button makes taking pics like that much easier.

[kujina]

Also, pause the game.
Andy if yer want send me a new card and I will do some professional screen shots of both a pc monitor and an lcd, I'm in the UK 

[Silver]

RUN CLASSIC GAMES IN THEIR NATIVE RESOLUTIONS ON A PC SVGA MONITOR

On a CRT, each line is scanned twice. This is barely visible and you simply end up with ultra-sharp graphics compared to using hardware stretch. Another benefit is an exact 60Hz vertical refresh rate which overcomes the tearing effect on scrolling games.

Not sure I completely follow this.

Is this different to an exact 2x hardware stretch (e.g. 320x240@60 --> 640x480@60) with no filtering?

[solid187]

Andy,
Exactly what day this month will the PCI-E version go on sale...? And how much will it be?  thanks.

[AndyWarne]

Is this different to an exact 2x hardware stretch (e.g. 320x240@60 --> 640x480@60) with no filtering?

320 X 240 is indeed a special case as it is exactly half of 640 X 480 so quite easy to achieve but that is only one of the 30 available resolutions.

[TheBrokentoken]

Andy,

Will you be releasing both the AGP version and the PCI-E version on the same day or will there be a pre-order delay for one or the other?  Thanks!

[pointdablame]

Andy,

Will you be releasing both the AGP version and the PCI-E version on the same day or will there be a pre-order delay for one or the other?  Thanks!

The AGP version of the card, still 9250-based, will be launched first followed by the PCIe at the end of this month.

[TheBrokentoken]

Andy,

Will you be releasing both the AGP version and the PCI-E version on the same day or will there be a pre-order delay for one or the other?  Thanks!

The AGP version of the card, still 9250-based, will be launched first followed by the PCIe at the end of this month.

Thank you!

[lettuce]

So what advantages does this new card have over the one you currently stock??

[AndyWarne]

The AGP version will be available on Wed 16th. PCIe version 2 weeks from now.
Comparing the AGP version to the older card, there is no difference at all if you are using a 15Khz arcade monitor.
If you use a PC monitor then there is a big difference since the older card won't work at all with PC monitors.
If you have a milti-frequency monitor you get 2 X 25Khz modes with the new card in addition to the others.
The PCIe version will be faster, especially in 3D and has 256Mb of RAM instead of 128.
Andy

[savj14]

Has anyone bought the new AGP card yet and are running it on a PC monitor???

If so how does it look???

Can anyone get any screen shots of this product in action running on a PC monitor??

I also have another question.........

What is the difference between the AGP and the PCIe versions of this card. Does it matter on the type of Computer I have??? I guess the real question is what is AGP and what is PCIe?

[pointdablame]

Has anyone bought the new AGP card yet and are running it on a PC monitor???

If so how does it look???

Can anyone get any screen shots of this product in action running on a PC monitor??

I also have another question.........

What is the difference between the AGP and the PCIe versions of this card. Does it matter on the type of Computer I have??? I guess the real question is what is AGP and what is PCIe?

The AGP card was only released 2 days ago, so I doubt someone has gotten a shipment in already, set it up, and taken pics.  You're going to have to wait a bit longer.  I'm betting there will be some reviews within the next few weeks.

AGP and PCI Express are both graphics card interfaces.  AGP is older, and PCIe is the newer of the two.  They are not cross compatible, and you will have to check what type of slot you have on your motherboard.  You cannot upgrade a board from AGP to PCIe... whatever your board has is what you are stuck with unless you buy a new motherboard.  Also note that all recent motherboards will have PCI slots... these are NOT the same as PCIe and cannot be used for AGP or PCIe video cards.

[savj14]

How can I tell if I have a PCI, PCI-E, or AGP motherboard??
MY computer is about a year old so chances are its either PCI or PCI-E

Would I have to buy a brand new PCI-E motherboard if my current motherboard is PCI???

[krick]

Here's a few links on PCI-Express

http://www.answers.com/topic/pci-express
http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstation/3dws/products/agp_pci_pcie.cfm
http://www.directron.com/expressguide.html
http://www.gen-x-pc.com/pci_basic.htm

[NightGod]

AGP

PCI-E

<3 Wikipedia

[savj14]

http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/R/3725/3725sp3.shtml

I guess this means I have the PCI-E, considering my current video card is a 128 MB ATI Radeon X300 SE PCI-Express

[pointdablame]

How can I tell if I have a PCI, PCI-E, or AGP motherboard??
MY computer is about a year old so chances are its either PCI or PCI-E

Would I have to buy a brand new PCI-E motherboard if my current motherboard is PCI???

You now know your motherboard is a PCI Express, but I just wanted to clear up something in case you ever needed the info later on.

You're not looking at either a "PCI or PCI-E"    PCI slots are much older than either AGP or PCI-E, and there will be regular PCI slots on BOTH an AGP or PCI-E motherboard.  Don't get that confused.   PCI cards will include USB cards, modems, LAN cards, sound cards, etc etc.

We're talking Video cards, which will run on either an AGP slot or PCI Express (there are PCI video cards, but for the scope of this conversation, we don't need to get into that.  They are only used these days as secondary cards for multiple monitors/displays).

So dont look for "PCI vs PCI-E"   You'r going to find PCI slots on every motherboard out today.  It's AGP vs PCI-E you need to be looking at.