Another leaf button question

[Disgrntld]

Ok, I'm getting ready to order my translucent leaf buttons and assemblies, then I'll have all the supplies for my CP! Just a few questions:

I know I need "long" leaf buttons for my wood CP, but what about the leaf switch asseblies? Are there different kinds? I guess http://homearcade.org/BBBB/leafsw.html and http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=23957.0 confused me a little bit, it looks like I'm seeing some that have an extra 1/8" ring touching the CP whereas some are mounted completly flush?

I guess the safer question would be, can anyone tell me what "long" translucent, leaf buttons and assemblies I need for my CP? I'd prefer using no spacers, routing of the CP, or assembly modification if possible and I was planning on 5/8th" MDF plus 1/8th" plexi for 3/4" total. Or should I use 1/2" MDF plus 1/8" plexi for 5/8" total?

I'm soo confused, I know a lot of y'all have solved this problem already, but I've been searching through the forums for a while and this is suprisingly hard for me to grasp without the pieces in front of me.

Thanks in advance!

[hypernova]

Switch holders come in two types mainly.  The wood and metal.  The difference is where the button goes.  In the metal ones, there is a "cavity" where the button sits.  In wooden ones, there is no such cavity.  It is completely flat along the top.  Go here to see the difference:
http://www.lizardlickamusements.com/pages/pushbuttons.shtml

The "deep" ones are for metal.  The others are for wood.

Do NOT buy any from there.  Entirely overpriced for them.

Depending on your cp, you will most likely need to rout out the area for your buttons.  If you plan on using 5/8 + 1/8 for plexi, then you WILL need to rout out, because the buttons won't reach the metal leaves.  The alternative is bending the leaves, but that isn't something you should consider, as you want to keep them as flat as they should be.  Otherwise the contacts on the leaves may become misaligned.  My CP is a total 3/4" thick (plexi included) and I had to rout out about 1/4" of the wood.  A 1/16" less would've sufficed, but 1/4" seemed perfect. 
You can go with 1/2" MDF, but are there T-moldings made in 5/8" size to go around the border?  If T-molding isn't in your plans on the CP, then it wouldn't be a bad idea.  Though a thickness of only 1/2" across the ENTIRE CP panel would worry me.  Although the extra 1/8" with plexi should alleviate any concerns about structural weakness, especially when pounding a trackball for Golden Tee.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I don't even use the switch holders on wood CP's.
I usually mount them Williams-style.
Williams used the short buttons, counter-bored the holes to accomodate the pal-nut on the bottom, and just screwed the switch to the wood.
Depending on wood thickness and button length, you may need to put a small wood spacer on the bottom of the CP, or may need to slightly rout the switches into the wood if the plexi thickness causes the buttons to be a bit short.
This method works great if you adjust it properly for whatever combo you are using though.

[Disgrntld]

Awesome, that explained a lot hypernova, thank you! I have to admit, I wasn't even thinking about the different T-molding I'd need for the CP if I went 5/8" thick.. A quick search online pulls up nothing put 3/4", so I'm guessing that's the standard (and it'll be the same as the rest of my cabinet).

So it's either 3/4", and I'll just route out 1/4" around the holders or possibly NoOne's idea. Which I imagine would be pretty simple once you found out the size block needed. Though wouldn't the button holes need to be two diameters? A little wider at the top to allow the fat part of the buttons above the threads room, and a little smaller on the bottom to be tight against the threads for the pal-nut to grip?

[NoOne=NBA=]

Though wouldn't the button holes need to be two diameters? A little wider at the top to allow the fat part of the buttons above the threads room, and a little smaller on the bottom to be tight against the threads for the pal-nut to grip?

Yes.

It's not that tough to accomplish this though.
You start by drilling the larger diameter to the necessary depth, and then just finish the hole up with the smaller diameter all the way through.

[Disgrntld]

I really like the fact that I wouldn't have to route away any of the underside of my CP using your idea NoOne. So you recommend drilling the large diameter first? Since I have access to a router, do you think it would be easier to drill the small hole first and use a rabbit bit (http://www.routerbits.com/rabbet.jpg)?

The amount of choices are just crazy building your own CP, the more I learn, the more questions I have!

[NoOne=NBA=]

If you do a few test holes, to find out the exact bit sizes you need to get the right size finished holes, that will work great.
I personally prefer forstner bits to do it because I like all the curly-cue shavings they make, vs. the dust from the router.

I've also cheated on a bunch of solid wood panels, and just drilled a 1-1/8 hole, and jammed the buttons into them.
Buttons don't get the upward stress that you would with a joystick, so they don't pop out of the holes.

Yet another option, especially if you are using the long buttons, is to make the CP a little thicker by creating a laminate.
I don't know the exact thicknesses you'd need, but you'd need to drill pilot holes with both pieces attached together, then drill the large hole completely through the top piece, and the small hole through the thinner bottom piece.
Glue them up, and you should be able to screw the switches directly to the bottom of the bottom piece.

I build alot of my CP's as laminates because that allows me to create more complex designs than you can with simple routing.
An example of this is the recessed dust washers.
If you just rout them, you have to cover them with plexi.
If the top layer of your CP is 1/4" plywood, you can cut the hole necessary for the joystick itself into the top layer, and then use a hole-saw to cut the second layer.
This also allows you to put T-nuts into the second layer, and cover them with the top layer.

Oscar has a really good tutorial on it HERE.
I usually use wood where he used the plexi on the top, and just glue it to the layer below.
That lets you use putty on the seam, and just sand the whole thing flush.
What it doesn't allow is for taking it back apart, but that's never been an issue on the CPs I've built.

[Disgrntld]

Ok, I think I understand (famous last words, eh?), though I still haven't decided which technique I'll use. Either way I'll need a Forstner bit..

My question is, which size Forstner bit should I buy? I already have some microswitch player buttons that are 1-1/8" (standard size for microswitch buttons, correct?). If I go with leaf switch buttons everywhere else, will I need a second bit of 1-3/16", or is there some way I can force leafs into the smaller 1-1/8" (I'll probably be using Lexan on top, I don't think it'll be as maleable as the wood you use NoOne).

Come to think of it, maybe if I tighten the player switches enough, I could use the 1-3/16" on them and avoid any "jiggling" in the hole.. Just trying to save money, those Forstners aren't cheap! 

Also, with the larger diameter leaf buttons, is the standard distance between button centers still 1-1/2" apart or just personal preference? What do you leaf buttons guys use?

[NoOne=NBA=]

My question is, which size Forstner bit should I buy?

You can actually use spade bits, they just don't leave as nice of a bottom to the hole.

Come to think of it, maybe if I tighten the player switches enough, I could use the 1-3/16" on them and avoid any "jiggling" in the hole.. Just trying to save money, those Forstners aren't cheap!

The 1-3/16" bit shouldn't present any problems.
Don't go with a 1-1/4" though.
The buttons will cover that, but it's kind of a pain to keep them centered properly as you tighten them.
I tried that way back when, because I already had the 1-1/4" bit, and it annoyed me to the point that I went and got the right sized one.

Also, with the larger diameter leaf buttons, is the standard distance between button centers still 1-1/2" apart or just personal preference? What do you leaf buttons guys use?

Absolute minimum on most leaf switches is right at 1-3/8".
The bezels on the buttons will actually touch at that distance.
I usually space mine just a hair over 1-3/8" because I like the buttons as close as possible, but don't want to accidentally get the holes TOO close, and have to ream them to get the buttons to fit next to each other.