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Author Topic: X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?  (Read 11504 times)

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creepfactory

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X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« on: February 16, 2003, 11:40:20 am »
I know there have been discussions before, but what is the consensus? CAN an x-box be used as the guts of an arcade cabinett, and the X-box joystick be hacked/soldered into arcade buttons and controls? If the X-box control is analog AND digital like I think, whould that not work? And for 4 way control games like pac man etc., wouldnt a restrictor plate work fine? I say all this because although it's not as polished as the PC emu scene, x-box emus are exploding, I would say they are quality wise what PC emus were three years ago, but catching up VERY fast. You can even have Linux and a keyboard on it, I saw somone also made a DOS emulator, so it seems all the abandonware would work also. I love my pc, but problems with windows, a LONG boot up, etc etc are tiring me. I will still make PC based cabs, but want to hear if ANYONE has made a MAME x-box based cab. I also saw a few companies actually make arcade controlls for the x-box, retail, not the X-arcade, which I would love to hear reviews on from X-box setup. And before the flames, I think we all here had SNES/GENESIS wars in the past, but you KNOW you all owned BOTH, hell I owned them ALL, from NES to 3D0 to FM TOWNS MARTY, I was a fanatic, but emus made them all collect dust by having all my game systems on ONE system; the PC, not I am exploring the X-box as a possible love.
But what do you all think?

eightbit

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2003, 02:54:40 pm »
Its doable. Hacking analog controls is not easy or cheap if its even possible. Some games can use digital controls in place of the the analog but you don't get the variable control. You mentioned not using the x-arcade stick but did you know that x-arcade sells there interface to use in your own panel. Then you can buy the xbox adapter and your set. Your limited by the xbox games you can play with this interface though because most require analog control.

To run linux or x-mame or variations there of you need to mod your xbox. Most people are hesitant to solder anything into the xbox.

I have an xbox, out of the 30 games I have the only one I would want to play on arcade controls in a cab would be DOA3.

Theres nothing better than 4 guys on a couch in front of a big tv drinking beer eating pieces and fragging each other in Halo!

Its been discussed here a few times and the consensus is that if your doing it because your trying to go cheap then its not a good idea. If your doing it because you want to play the few xbox games that can be played with digital controls on an actual arcade panel plus run an emulator then its not a bad way to go. X-mame is not going to give you the performance or flexibility that you get from a real PC.
My statements are my own opinions. They have the value that the reader gives them. My opinion of my opinion varies between foolish and brilliant and these opinions often change with new information.

creepfactory

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2003, 06:25:06 pm »
So has anyone here actually played XMame on a modded X-box? Like I understand MK3 NBA Jam etc would be slow, but are the majority of games perfect? like is the vsync set in Xmame (or is it Mame-X?) on the xbox to the TV out frequency? Really I would love to hear opinions of somone who has tried ANY mame or emus on a modded xbox. Oh by the way Microsoft doesn't seem to care about emus, they just told the X-box emu community to watch it, and that modding the x-box will void X-box live, but who cares anyway, Microsoft even saw $$$$ in their eyes and pointed out "why not buy TWO X-boxes, one to mod, one for Live!"
So unlike Jap-run Sony, who will NEVER in a million years even be OK with any emus on the PS2, Microsoft seems to GET it that a mod community can bring huge intrest in the X-box. I hope the mod community totally denounces copying X-box retail games to keep the man off their backs in the scene, seems the wise choice, most of the x-box games are kinda lame anyway. Except Halo2!

Jakobud

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2003, 08:39:44 pm »

So unlike Jap-run Sony, who will NEVER in a million years even be OK with any emus on the PS2, Microsoft seems to GET it that a mod community can bring huge intrest in the X-box.

creefactory, first of all do you know that Sony Computer Entertainment has released a Linux dev kit so you can load up a Linux OS on your PS2?  Therefore once you have that OS up and running you can develop/create whatever the heck you want to play on your PS2, including emulators. The kit even includes an amazing amount of documentation about the PS2 hardware so you can develop even more things on it than just regular linux apps!

Second, Microsoft does NOT want people modding their xbox's.  I don't know what you are smoking.  Don't you remember 6 months ago when Microsoft single-handedly shut down www.lik-sang.com, the number one distro of xbox mod chips?

You are totally confused I think.  Micro$oft denounces anyone opening up and modding their precious Xbox while Sony has opening released a kit to allow anyone to loadup Linux on their console, opening the door for anyone do develop anything they want on it.  Get your facts straight dude.  I can't understand how people can even support Microsoft....

Back to the main topic, if you are skilled enough to 1. hack analog controls for the XBOX and 2. Solder in a modchip, then maybe using an xbox as your primary system wouldn't be bad.  Don't forget though that it's only running ~700MHz.  I don't think thats even enough speed for Mortal Kombat era games.  Neo Geo and CPS1/2 games should be fine on it though.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2003, 04:16:29 am by Jakobud »

eightbit

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2003, 09:49:45 pm »
I hope the mod community totally denounces copying X-box retail games to keep the man off their backs in the scene, seems the wise choice, most of the x-box games are kinda lame anyway. Except Halo2!
Halo2? There is no Halo2 yet.
My statements are my own opinions. They have the value that the reader gives them. My opinion of my opinion varies between foolish and brilliant and these opinions often change with new information.

Brax

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2003, 10:32:47 pm »
I hope the mod community totally denounces copying X-box retail games to keep the man off their backs in the scene, seems the wise choice, most of the x-box games are kinda lame anyway. Except Halo2!
Halo2? There is no Halo2 yet.

http://www.gamers.com/game/1216284

Yes there is, YOU just can't have it yet!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2003, 10:35:16 pm by Brax »
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creepfactory

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2003, 10:41:06 pm »
Yea I know about the Ps2 Dev kit, but there are apparently ZERO emus on the ps2! One guy made one then laughed as he said he wont release it! And he says it runs perfect. SO let me get this straight, X-box isnt powerful enough, but the ps2 is, an admitted slower cpu, less ram, NO hard drive etc etc. So ps2 should be SLOWER using mame, than an x-box. And sony also wont allow emus. Sigh. I guess its back to the PC as platform number one for emus! Now I need to find a mobo with EVERYTHING built in for like $300! that would rock! Anyone know a great, cheap all in one small motherboard with onboard audtio, video, Network, Usb, TV out?

Jakobud

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2003, 04:16:09 am »
creepfactory,

First of all, any emulator you can run on Linux, you can run on the ps2 linux dev kit.  Any of them.  There is a hell of a lot more emulators for linux than for xbox.

Second, the ps2 linux devkit has a 40 gig hard drive included in it.

Third, you can easily find a good mobo that has all that stuff for $300.  Take a look at the shuttle systems.  I just ordered one for my home system.

SirPoonga

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2003, 05:33:24 am »
First of all, any emulator you can run on Linux, you can run on the ps2 linux dev kit.  Any of them.  There is a hell of a lot more emulators for linux than for xbox.

There isn't much for linux though :)

Also, to what you said before, 700Mhz IS GOOD FOR MAME!!!  at least for the games you will be able to play on the xbox with only 32 megs of memory.  And I play mame on a 500Mhz machine!!!!!

The PS2 has the same limitation, it can plan all the games it is able to with the very limited amount of resources it has.  Heck, I play mame on my DC with no problems.  It's not the speed that counts on those systems for emulation, it's the memory.

Remember, mame extracts the zip files of the games into memory first.

killr0y

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2003, 07:25:57 am »
First of all, Metal Slug 2 runs silky smooth on the XBOX under MAMEX, let alone all the lesser graphic intensive games.

Second, if most XBOX games are "kinda lame", you must really laugh at most of the PS2 games, not to mention all the MAME games.  I bet you make jokes about the classics to all your friends.

Third, the SNES emulator on the XBOX is second to NOTHING, including the SNES.  It looks better, plays better and has more features.  

The only reason I wouldn't build a MAME cab out of an XBOX is because that would be a waste of an XBOX.  

As a sidenote, its awesome to play divx movies on the XBOX which streams from my server's HDD.  It also way cool to stream www.shoutcast.com audio streams to it.  

My new cab is going to double as a Jukebox w/ audio streaming but I'm not going to use my XBOX, just gonna build another PC.  My XBOX stays on my 35" WEGA w/ my 7.1 Yamaha surround system.  

creepfactory

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2003, 10:27:32 am »
WHOA there Kilroy, I should clarify myself, by kinda lame I meant to play in an arcade cabinet. Playing Splintercel with a stick would be hard, but Splinter Cel is INCREDIBLE as a game. I would never make fun of the classics, by the way, I treasure them. As far as using an x-box in a cab, you convinced me MORE to use it, so the SNES emu is that good huh? Better than even a REAL snes? If so I WILL get an xbox and mod chip for the cabinet. So you dont see the pretty xbox all the time, hell I think it's actually not near as well designed as a ps2 for looks, the xbox is a MONSTER, probably the biggest console system I have ever seen! But it does rock for power and emus. By the way check again all, I can't find ANY emus for ps2 i can download anywhere, and Holy crapola, I am not dumping a grand into a Ps2 dev kit just for a cab, and sorry but Linux does NOT have the best or large number of emus, yes it has mame, but the price of a ps2 kit is just way too expensive.

Trenchbroom

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2003, 12:35:24 pm »
Xbox has heavy emu development because it is what it is--a glorified PC.  Hence you will find a rapidly growing assortment of Xbox emu's mostly based on open source projects (Xmame, DGEN, Frodo, UAE and the beautiful XSNES9X).

There are mod chips now that do not require soldering (Matrix which I use).  The primary reason I bought my Xbox was to mod it for console emulation; aracde gaming means standing in front of a big cabinet, and console gaming means sitting in a banana chair, controller in hand in front of the big TV in my living room.  I now have both.

As for using the Xbox as a cab computer, I agree that it is feasible but it is not worth the bucks.  The only situation where I would consider it would be for a cocktail cab that has very little room for the computer inside, and even then a micro ATX would probably perform as well and be better for the price.

And in response to "supporting" Microsoft by buying an Xbox: if all you use it for is for modding/emulation/linux, etc. and don't buy any games then you are actually hurting MS since they are losing approx $100 on each unit that is sold.  Consoles are always a "loss leader" item w/ hardware because they make their money on software.  I actually don't condone this personally --I do want Xbox to succeed so that there is a fat supply of Xbox games to play on it and I'm not paranoid about Microsoft hegemony.  But if you are blinded w/ rage against the evil Redmond Empire then you might consider buying one.

creepfactory

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2003, 12:43:43 pm »
So Trenchbroom
Yes It does sound cool to use the Xbox as my console dream machine in front of the TV and not in a cabinet. So how happy are you with it for that? Can you play Genesis/ snes etc PERFECT on the xbox? Like to be specific, does Super Mario World play 100% as good as a real snes? And Sonic, does it have no choppy vsync problems, or is it rock solid 60fps?

Trenchbroom

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2003, 03:54:58 pm »
For SNES it's damn near perfect.  A few sound quibbles here and there.  Was playing Super Mario RPG and Starfox on it last night--no slowdown at all and it looks like the real deal.

Genesis I haven't burned a disc yet so I have no personal experience but I've heard the emulation isn't as fully developed.  DGEN is a relatively new emu to the Xbox--I have no doubt that it would be fully compatible and full speed in a few more releases.  Same situation w/ NES emulators right now.  Hell even the Atari 2600 emulator is a bit slow!  It just takes a little time to port these emu's over and optimize them for the machine.  

Other consoles w/ emu's that are works in progress include SMS, Virtual Gameboy, Colecovision, Lynx, N64 and some computers (C64 w/ Frodo, Amiga w/ UAE--why would you emulate a computer on a console w/o a keyboard?  Hmm).


gui_999

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2003, 04:47:30 pm »
http://pages.infinit.net/cradle/hypermoe.htm

Check this out.. one of my friend did a Xbox based cab

Jakobud

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2003, 09:26:59 pm »
Just a side not creepfactory, to let you know the PS2 LINUX dev kit I am referring to is NOT the same thing as the T10000 PS2 game dev kit.  The Linux devkit is available to anyone and is only like $200 or something (at least it was last I checked.  Probably cheaper by now).  And if you are searching for "PS2 emulators" you won't find much.  But searching for "Linux emulators" you will find more.  I was just saying that there are a lot of linux emulators that you could run on a ps2 that is running linux.

Hope the xbox route works well for you in the cabinet, since imho it isn't good for anything else.

eightbit

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2003, 08:58:13 am »
Hope the xbox route works well for you in the cabinet, since imho it isn't good for anything else.
Now why did you have to say that? Nobodys slamming you for choosing the inferior PS/2.  ;)

Looking simply at the hardware specs of modding a ps/2 or an xbox it seems to me that the xbox would win hands down. They both cost the same to start but the ps/2 still needs a hard drive.
My statements are my own opinions. They have the value that the reader gives them. My opinion of my opinion varies between foolish and brilliant and these opinions often change with new information.

Howard_Casto

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2003, 09:30:20 am »
Hope the xbox route works well for you in the cabinet, since imho it isn't good for anything else.
Now why did you have to say that? Nobodys slamming you for choosing the inferior PS/2.  ;)

Looking simply at the hardware specs of modding a ps/2 or an xbox it seems to me that the xbox would win hands down. They both cost the same to start but the ps/2 still needs a hard drive.

Agreed 100%.  Jakobud has a personal interest in sony and thus he's sensitive about it.  

The reason sony released the linux kit is because, quite frankly their sales are slipping, and understandably so since it's the most aged of the three systems.  As they have pretty much saturated the market with hardware, they are simply trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of it berfore it's run is over.  They can afford to do that as they are an established game company and the ps2 is much cheaper to make than the xbox.  

M$ is new to the market and thus they have to fight piracy.  They fight it not because of box modding, but because of people modding the box soley to play modded software or pirated games. As it's been said a thousand times xbox makes it's money off of the software.  And unlike sony who releases a billion shovelware games a month m$ invests and incredible amount of resources into in house games.    

The thing is they both cost the same and the xbox has better specs so obviously most intelligent "hardcore hackers" choose the xbox over the ps2.  So in other words sony can afford to release a dev kit as serious programmers won't use it, but m$ can't.

And hardware wise the xbox is superior in every way, so I don't even have to go into that.  It's the obvious choice to modd.  

Quite honestly I've hated sony since almost day one because they seem to value quantity over quality.  Remember guys the ps1 was nintendo's reject project for the most part so that should tell you something.  

Think about it... nintendo has given us great series like mario, zelda, metroid, donkey kong and others.  Sega has given us sonic, and altered beast and a slew of great sports games.  Microsoft is new on the block but it's already established itself with great titles like halo and splinter cell.  So what exactly has sony brought to the table over the years?  Metal Gear... nope it started on the nes.  Final Fantasy?  Nope nes again.   I honestly can't think of a single orignal sony game worth mentioning except for twisted metal 2 (as every other version sucked according to both hardcore fans and casual gamers).

So although financially the xbox isn't a success yet, it's already made more of an impact to the gaming industry, software wise, than sony has in it's 6+ years.

Was my point to bash sony?  No not really.  My point is if your are going to bash a gaming company NEVER backup sony as it's really a case of the pot calling the kettle black. It's an ok system with ok games.  Yes it's extremely popular, but only to the casual gamer.  (Kind of like how pop music is extremely popular to everyone but music fans.)  Hardcore gamers will always side with the consoles with innovate titles, and quite frankly, sony doesn't have any right now, nor have they ever.    

killr0y

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2003, 02:32:44 pm »
Strange, I haven't had any slowdown with my SNES emu on the XBOX... I have one of those no-solder Matrix mod chips running the Evox BIOS and Dashboard.  I also threw in an 80GB hard drive so I have all the MAME games, as well as all my favorite SNES & Genesis games.  Its so awesome to be able to switch from game to game without getting up.. and its cool that you can hit a button to speed the game along by 20x when you are forced to sit through the dialogue in some games.  The component out (if you have the HDTV adapter) makes SNES games look sooo sharp too!

For SNES it's damn near perfect.  A few sound quibbles here and there.  Was playing Super Mario RPG and Starfox on it last night--no slowdown at all and it looks like the real deal.

Genesis I haven't burned a disc yet so I have no personal experience but I've heard the emulation isn't as fully developed.  DGEN is a relatively new emu to the Xbox--I have no doubt that it would be fully compatible and full speed in a few more releases.  Same situation w/ NES emulators right now.  Hell even the Atari 2600 emulator is a bit slow!  It just takes a little time to port these emu's over and optimize them for the machine.  

Other consoles w/ emu's that are works in progress include SMS, Virtual Gameboy, Colecovision, Lynx, N64 and some computers (C64 w/ Frodo, Amiga w/ UAE--why would you emulate a computer on a console w/o a keyboard?  Hmm).



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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2003, 07:42:29 pm »
hehehe.....great thread.  woohoo 300 posts for me!

Yeah I have personal interest in Sony so I think I will always side with them simply because of that, but at the same time I play a lot of my friends' Xbox games at home and just don't see what the big deal is.  Yes it's more powerful than the ps2 but the fact is that the ps2 just has more better funner games on it.  Halo is the only game that is on XBox that makes it stand out from ps2 and gamecube (and Halo is 1 1/4 yrs old).  Every other good game on XBox is also available for ps2 and/or gamecube it seems.  So it's just a matter of which system has the best content.  That's what it's always been about and what it's always gonna be about.  Not power or performance.  That's why I enjoy the ps2 more.  PS2 has sold over 50million consoles while XBox has just barely sold 10million.  I think that means a lot.  Just my opinion though folks. I look at the numbers and just say it like it is.

But this whole idea for XBox for a mame cabinet I think would be good, if you can solder in modchips and hack analog controls.  More power to ya :)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2003, 07:54:05 pm by Jakobud »

eightbit

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2003, 08:52:56 pm »
Yes it's more powerful than the ps2
So if its the same game on both systems wouldn't you want the faster system with the better graphics?
My statements are my own opinions. They have the value that the reader gives them. My opinion of my opinion varies between foolish and brilliant and these opinions often change with new information.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2003, 09:07:21 pm »
Well I agree with HC and eightbit by saying the xbox is clearly the better, more innovative machine with overall better games - though obviously not as many.  I only have 11 games but each one is HIGH quality software - I'd rather play one game a looong time and get really absorbed(like splintercell or gunvalkyrie) than 10 games for 5 minutes each like PS2.

But it's my understanding that modding xboxes is slightly frowned upon by M$(understatement? :) )  and that doing so permanently bans that particular xbox from the xbox live network.  I rather like that service.

I followed xboxhacker.net for a few months after xbox release but it just seemed the main purpose of trying to get stuff to play on an xbox, like linux, was to stick a thumb in the eye of M$, not for real practical use.  I'd just get a small mini-computer like the shuttle mentioned earlier if I wanted to DO anything on it.  I'm all about the less hassle the better  ;)

creepfactory

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2003, 10:46:47 pm »
Hey Kilroy, I am drueling! So playing Console SNES and Genny stuff is 100% perfect? Also are most mame games that work, work well or stuttery? And do you listen to mp3s and watch divx and picture browse with the xbox? And lastly how do you transfer files to it? Do you use a network connection?
THANKS!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2003, 11:51:36 pm »
Yes, you use the built-in ethernet connection and just copy files from your PC to the XBOX via FTP.  There are other ways available now too.  The emulations are dead-on.. only a few MAME games cause problems, i.e. anything you'd have trouble running on a 733mhz PC.. also, ROMS over 64MB don't run either but that's being worked on.  The thing about the XBOX is they can code MAME super-tight (should they ever do so) since they code for one type of hardware, thus taking advantage of the XBOX hardware.  MP3's and DIVX can be streamed off your PC or run off the XBOX's hard disk.  BTW, that Sony-Lover is wrong.. they make no-solder mod chips for XBOX that take 5 mins to install.  

Hey Kilroy, I am drueling! So playing Console SNES and Genny stuff is 100% perfect? Also are most mame games that work, work well or stuttery? And do you listen to mp3s and watch divx and picture browse with the xbox? And lastly how do you transfer files to it? Do you use a network connection?
THANKS!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2003, 12:04:46 am »
So can you just pop in a CD full of mp3s and play them right ON the xbox though? Or even then drag them off onto the hard drive of the xbox, no pc used at all, like could I dump all my Mp3 cd roms onto it, and Mame roms etc etc? And lastly is there a keyboard and/or mouse for the xbox?
Thanks!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2003, 01:10:59 am »
Yes it's more powerful than the ps2
So if its the same game on both systems wouldn't you want the faster system with the better graphics?

If you look back at my first reply you will see that I was just correcting creep after he said that Sony doesn't want anyone running emulators on the PS2.  Then it got into this whole which system is better (ignoring the Mame aspect) thread.  

And regarding what you just asked, I'd have to say that I would want to choose whichever system the game looked and played better on, BUT not at the expense of ignoring every other game for that system.  If I have game that comes out on PS2, XBox, and Gamecube, and the XBox looks a better because of some special lighting effects in the game or something, I would still rather own a PS2 to play the game on simply because there are so many more better and funner games available.  I would never buy a system simply because it has a faster processor can push more polygons or something like that.  It's amazing how much of that marketing stuff actually pulls people into buying an XBox and then they realize that most of the games aren't that good, no matter how good they look.

I'm not trying to push buttons and I know there are a lot of XBox M$ lovers out there.  It's only my OPINION that I think PS2 is better.  If you think XBox is your thing, then that's fine.  

I just don't feel like supporting a company like M$.  They are desperately trying to get into EVERY market there is simply so they can control everything.  They already unfortunately own the desktop market.  If they had a great product that would be one thing, but instead we get a different patch from M$ every other week regarding bugs and security holes in IE...Where as with Sony, I can see how a lot of people would consider them to a 800lb gorilla.  But with the PS2...there are no complaints.  Its a great system that has served up great games and many many many hours of enjoyment for millions of people.  It's doing it's job and it's doing it well.  That's why I support them.

my opinion, people....opinion...

Hey they make no-solder mod chips for XBox?  Well that would make it easier for the whole mame cabinet thing i guess.  Yes I am a "Sony-Lover"
« Last Edit: February 19, 2003, 01:15:14 am by Jakobud »

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2003, 01:26:26 am »
Yeah, the no-solder modchip is called The Matrix...its $59.

But, is there a working MAME emu for xbox? I haven't heard of anything new in a while regarding that.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2003, 01:38:04 am »
Yea I know about the Ps2 Dev kit, but there are apparently ZERO emus on the ps2! One guy made one then laughed as he said he wont release it! And he says it runs perfect.

I've run genesis and SNES games on my ps2 so there you go. I played these games last year sometime so get into the loop.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2003, 02:29:39 am »
Yeah, the no-solder modchip is called The Matrix...its $59.

But, is there a working MAME emu for xbox? I haven't heard of anything new in a while regarding that.



Last I heard about that Mame-X (or is it XMame?) is that it was shut down very quickly.  It's difficult to even find the latest beta binary to download.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2003, 03:38:52 am »
yeah i know.. i did just find a .rar file with beta .5, .6, & .7 though!

and yes it is called MAMEx

 ;)
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2003, 07:04:58 am »
Yeah it's mame-x and the latess beta is beta 7

Working fine, but since the Xbox is limited to 64 mb of ram.. games that need more doesn't work.

But some guys on the scene are trying to put more ram on the Xbox ( there's unused spot on the Xbox mother board for that ). They ordered some sdram chip and soldered it on the mother board and it's working. They even cleared the 64 mb flag that enable software to use all available memory. But mame-x wasn't programed to use the ram, so now we are all waiting for a new version that will use all the memory.

But for all the old games.. mame-x works fine.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2003, 10:47:57 am »
They are working on MAME so that it bank swaps the ROMS instead of having to load all the banks into RAM at one time.  They do this in the real arcade machines anyway so I don't see why it hasn't been done sooner.  Loading the entire ROMSET into RAM is a waste of RAM to begin with, but when most PC's have at least 256 these days its not a problem.  

As for Sony Boy, dude come on, noone wants to read your 10 page responses as to why you like your PS2.  This is a site about MAME.  I guess there always has to be a PS2 fanboy around whenever you mention the word XBOX.. almost like they feel the need to defend their purchase.. hmmm

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2003, 12:31:14 pm »
Well I agree with HC and eightbit by saying the xbox is clearly the better, more innovative machine with overall better games - though obviously not as many.  I only have 11 games but each one is HIGH quality software - I'd rather play one game a looong time and get really absorbed(like splintercell or gunvalkyrie) than 10 games for 5 minutes each like PS2.

But it's my understanding that modding xboxes is slightly frowned upon by M$(understatement? :) )  and that doing so permanently bans that particular xbox from the xbox live network.  I rather like that service.

I followed xboxhacker.net for a few months after xbox release but it just seemed the main purpose of trying to get stuff to play on an xbox, like linux, was to stick a thumb in the eye of M$, not for real practical use.  I'd just get a small mini-computer like the shuttle mentioned earlier if I wanted to DO anything on it.  I'm all about the less hassle the better  ;)

All the newer mod chips cna be bypassed.... unless you are doing something funky hardware-wise you can simply turn off your mod chip to play xbox live.  

With that being said.... xbox linux, like ps2 linux and dc linux is lame and worthless.  As you said these consoles simply don't have enough juice to doing anything on.  

BUT as xbox is practially a pc, there are dedicated emus for the xbox that don't require linux.  mamex is a good example and there are u64emus, snes emus and ect....  

If you are wanting to make a linux box with emulators then I couldn't reccomend any of the systems to you.  If you want to play emulated games then it's gotta be the xbox.  

And yes m$ HATES for you to modd the xbox, but mostly because some people don't actually buy xbox games, but buy the console just to hack and run linux on it.  This is a bad idea as it doesn't support the xbox and those great m$ titles but instead hurts them.  So if you are going to buy a xbox to hack, please buy about 5 or so games to go with it so it will offset m$'s losses.  :)

Also regarding those input issues... linux on the xbox will support keyboards and mice, but you have to hack their cables to plug them in and it's only certain brands at this point.  I find this feature useless, however as the games themselves won't detect said, keybaord and mice.  It is nice for mucking around in linux though. :)

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2003, 01:09:04 pm »
They are working on MAME so that it bank swaps the ROMS instead of having to load all the banks into RAM at one time.  They do this in the real arcade machines anyway so I don't see why it hasn't been done sooner.

How would this work?  Since the ROM info is stored on a comparatively slow medium (hard drive vs. real ROM chips) How can it bank switch the ROM info from the hard drive w/o causing the game to stutter?




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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2003, 01:49:55 pm »
The Motorola 68000 (Which is the NeoGeo's CPU) can only address 16MB of memory at a given time.  It has to use bank switching in order to read more than that.  Therefore, an XBOX would actually need only 16MB + whatever is needed to run the OS/Emulator.  Also, a 12Mhz Motorola 68000 has a RAM bus throughput of 20MB/s which is not a whole lot faster than the XBOX's hard drive read capability.  All you need to do is set aside 16MB for ROM read-ahead cache and there is no delay issue.  Like I said, its not a factor for mame because most PC's have gobs of RAM, and the OS takes care of the virtual memory just incase there isn't enough RAM.  So there are two ways to accomplish the issue.. either implement bank switching via emulator or page faulting via the OS.   ;D

They are working on MAME so that it bank swaps the ROMS instead of having to load all the banks into RAM at one time.  They do this in the real arcade machines anyway so I don't see why it hasn't been done sooner.

How would this work?  Since the ROM info is stored on a comparatively slow medium (hard drive vs. real ROM chips) How can it bank switch the ROM info from the hard drive w/o causing the game to stutter?





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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2003, 01:56:53 pm »
quit trollin' killroy.  it's old.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2003, 02:59:44 pm »
That clears it up--thanks KillRoy!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2003, 07:31:16 pm »
Franchises that began with Sony?

...Give me a break:

Silent Hill, Resident Evil, NFL Gameday, Ratchet and Clank, Devil May Cry, Ape Escape, Fear Effect, Medal Gear Solid (as though the NES game is even relavent with regards to the Solid series - not that it wasn't great), Wipeout, Tomb Raider (revolutionary for its time; too bad they milked it dry), Dino Crisis, Gran Turismo, Dance Dance Revolution (arcade port, but still only on Playstation), Twisted Medal Black (hah, there is more than one good version), Parappa the Rapper, Driver...etc.....etc.....etc.....etc......etc....  I could seriously go on for at least fifty more games.  How could you even make such a ridiculous claim?  You poor soul.  Please tell me that you haven't passed up all of these brilliant pieces of software out of brand loyalty.  Nintendo doesn't care about you.  Microsoft doesn't care about you.  They, like Sony, are in it for the money.  You should be in it for the games.  Do I honestly have to explain that to you.  You know that they pay their spokespeople LOADS  of money don't you.  If they're not going to pay you loads of money why are you acting like a spokesperson.


That said the only "this generation" console I own right now is a Gamecube cos I'm a sucker for Nintendo games and money ain't growin on trees.  And the controller is like butter.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2003, 08:02:56 pm »
That said the only "this generation" console I own right now is a Gamecube cos I'm a sucker for Nintendo games and money ain't growin on trees.  And the controller is like butter.
I own an xbox, I like my xbox. I think the graphics are superior to any other console and I like the newer smaller style controllers that they have.

I played on a gamecube for the first time today. I was not impressed with the graphics and I didn't like the controller. The buttons are all different sizes and almost seem to be randomly placed.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2003, 11:31:03 pm »
Personally, I must say that  Nintendo is the best. They have always had the most original games and characters. Sega and everyone else has imitated Nintendo.  I think Nintendo was the first to have a Mascot type character (Mario), and everyone else has followed suit (Sega with Sonic, etc).

I think Nintendo has always had the most imaginative games/characters, and still do a good job to this day. Some people complaing that Nintendo is for kids..well they always have been. Most of us got hooked on Nintendo when we were kids, duh.

The NES rocked in its day! Nintendo rules!

Zelda anyone?

(sorry for the rant)

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2003, 11:57:48 pm »
I think Nintendo has always had the most imaginative games/characters, and still do a good job to this day. Some people complaing that Nintendo is for kids..well they always have been. Most of us got hooked on Nintendo when we were kids, duh.
I think the Xbox has been failing at the whole kid market. I recently bought sneakers since its supposed to be a kid game but my neices and nephews won't play it. The racing games that they like to play are buried to deep in menus for them to start on their own. I realize its probably not the xbox prime market but they need to invest in some kid games.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2003, 10:20:34 am »
Racing games buried too deep in menus?  You must be confused with GranTurismo on the PS2.  The racing games on the XBOX such as Wreckless, Project Gotham, Rallisport, Sega GT, have nowhere near the menu surfing of the PS2.  In most cases you can be racing in 2 button presses.  Not sure which racing games you mean.  As original games go, I would agree that Nintendo has the most video game character recognition out of the console market.. You have to realize though, most great games are not made by the console manufacturer but instead made by third party software developers like Bungee, Square, Konami, etc.  

I'm not sure how this thread became a console war when it cleary was a question about the XBOX's feasability as MAME cab hardware..  

The answer in my opinion is a clear YES.  It can do 90% of all MAME games flawlessly.  It can also do SNES and Genesis with perfect accuracy and component video sharpness.  You can also use it as an MP3 Jukebox as well as use it to stream internet music.

I think Nintendo has always had the most imaginative games/characters, and still do a good job to this day. Some people complaing that Nintendo is for kids..well they always have been. Most of us got hooked on Nintendo when we were kids, duh.
I think the Xbox has been failing at the whole kid market. I recently bought sneakers since its supposed to be a kid game but my neices and nephews won't play it. The racing games that they like to play are buried to deep in menus for them to start on their own. I realize its probably not the xbox prime market but they need to invest in some kid games.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2003, 04:17:33 pm »
Racing games buried too deep in menus?  You must be confused with GranTurismo on the PS2.  The racing games on the XBOX such as Wreckless, Project Gotham, Rallisport, Sega GT, have nowhere near the menu surfing of the PS2.  In most cases you can be racing in 2 button presses.  Not sure which racing games you mean.  As original games go, I would agree that Nintendo has the most video game character recognition out of the console market.. You have to realize though, most great games are not made by the console manufacturer but instead made by third party software developers like Bungee, Square, Konami, etc.  
I've got rallysport, project gotham, evo 4x4. My 10 year old nephew has difficulty with the menus and my 7 yr old neice can't start a game. I guess I'm remembering my  old Nintendo where basically there was 1p or 2p and start.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2003, 04:36:38 pm »
Now I need to find a mobo with EVERYTHING built in for like $300! that would rock! Anyone know a great, cheap all in one small motherboard with onboard audtio, video, Network, Usb, TV out?

Heya Creep, check out the VIA Epia line of microatx mobos, they have everything you mentioned above for about $100-$200.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2003, 05:05:12 pm »
Really? Like processor, video, sound, etc for $200 ish?!? What speed around are they like a gigahertz? And its a proprietary processor right? Not a Pentium, AMD or other?

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2003, 05:59:16 pm »
Here's a link to the VIA product:

http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_m_spec.jsp?motherboardId=81

I've considered this but from what I've read I'm not sure they have the horsepower to do mame games beyond "80's classics".

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/viaepiam9000/
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/viaepiam/

Although cool I'm not sure it would make a good Mame platform - perhaps for a cocktail.  People are definately doing neat things with these ITX mobos.

http://www.mini-itx.com/

In the US you can do a search for EPIA at outpost.com for current offerings and prices.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2003, 06:29:15 pm »
hey, check www.pricewatch.com

you can find a barebones system, with mobo, cpu, etc for under $100.

some really good deals.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2003, 01:00:20 am »
technically, you should be able to build a MAME machine for around $200.  You can buy an AMD XP2000 barebones for around $120, then add a graphics card and some RAM.. if you can find an old hard drive laying around (all you need is a few Gigs) then you are all set (assuming you have integrated sound, else add another $25 for a good soundblaster.  Compare this to the price of an XBOX ($199 plus $59 for modchip), and you have to weigh the pros/cons to decide which way to go.

XBOX pros
--------------
Compact size
Can play XBOX games
Can play DVD Movies
Unparalled video output

PC Pros
--------------
Slightly less expensive
More choices of MAME frontends
More configurable hardware

I'm sure there are a few other Pros for each side but just some food for thought

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2003, 03:50:27 am »
First of all, those Via Epia boards are mini-itx formfactor, not microATX.  They are only 17cm x 17cm and have onboard everything. Just add memory, hardrive, power. The best one is about $160 and runs at 933MHz.  But it IS a Cyrix C3-ish processor.  That 933 is equivalent to about a PentiumIII-450 'maybe'.  I've been thinking about getting one of these for a while for a Mame cabinet.  Just not too sure about the performance...

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2003, 12:23:25 pm »
You are all too optimistic. Any pc based cab of any speed worth building will be around $500.00 I have made them. and a slow poke p2 300 or a celeron 600 are just too slow OERALL. Yes they run anything from pac man to Neo Geo fine, but with all the cool new mame roms, it just wont cut it. Thats the whole point, an X-box runs 733 with CUSTOM drivers for it's Nvidea chip, and its super new so optimizing can happen for JUST this chip, not 1000 pc variations. So overal it's a competent processor and video chip, it's no screamer, but the potential for optimization is there. Try and run something like splinter cel on a p3 733, it chugs along like molasses! But the X-box version is better than anything but a 3 Gig p4 running the PC version of Splinter cel. I am just saying how an x-box can be a great cabinet solution, and more emus all the time. Don't forget things like zero crashing, instant on, PERFECT Tv out so you can use any TV instead of super expensive 33" arcade monitors, even HDTV out and component out, super crisp images. All of you using Pc monitors for mame are missing out! Arcade games were made for coarse pixel low frequency arcade monitors, which are really closer to TVs than PC MOnitors, but TV out from a pc introduces second generation blurring, bleeding and artifacts. An X-box video signal is first generation straight to the TV. I priced it out guys here goes, and this is REAL costs, not "find a crappy hard drive under the cat litter and toss it in" thinking, but NEW component costs, from mobo to hard drive to wood to lights, controls, encoder, all of it:

Arcade Cabinet costs:

Via Epia Based System Total Cost roughly                 $570.00

BookPC Based System Total Cost roughly                 $595.00

X-box/Matrix Based System Total Cost roughly          $510.00

Dell  Dimen.2350 Based System Total Cost roughly   $674.00

Gigabyte Celeron 1.8 pieced together system           $650.00
(mainly because if I were selling it, I have to BUY
Windows OEM for about $120.00

Now you are saying they are similar costs, but I also use the X Arcade as the controls for all of these at $149.00 its LESS than buying and bulding and wiring your own controls! HOW do they sell them this cheap! Look into it
Buttons and Stick just went up 15% at Happ also!
Buttons 2 player config, $1.87eachx 24 buttons  with shipping $47.00
Two Happ Super Sticks cost about $38.00 with shipping
Ipac Encoder Costs      $51.00 with shipping
Wiring Kit for buttons   $22.00 with shipping
This is assuming you dont have an elecronics shop with tons of spare wire and connectors lying around.
Totalling $158.00 to build your own!Now I know you will all jump in and say that's what it's about, building your own! But Why not focus on the cabinet, t-molding etc, the look of your own cabinet, the craftsmanship etc. and But a damn X-arcade and pop it in! And since they had the foresight to include converters, play X-box, ps2 or gamecube titles also! If you want perfect controls also attatch a 4 way restrictor, or even swap in an 8/4 way stick!
Its just crazy to spend more money, more time, and most likely have many trial and errors getting a control pannel wired yourself to me. I have made 4 cabinets this way, and I have to be honest, I want to PLAY the games, and build a sharp looking cab, not be under the hood for WEEKS figuiring shich wire messed up. This is an exaggeration, and if you get good at it it would only take a day or so to wire up buttons, but WHY?!? I am no shill for xarcade, I don't even own one yet, but read all the great reviews. What we need to do is get all the people who love cabs but cant wire up daughterboards to ipacs like that guy did with the brigh led buttons, and make an "XBOX arcade Cab Forum" To expolore this further instead of bashing it as stupid or not feasable.
Whos With me! Lets PLAY games not spend 6 months on the cab! Spend six DAYS on a cab!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2003, 12:42:36 pm »
To expolore this further instead of bashing it as stupid or not feasable.
Whos With me! Lets PLAY games not spend 6 months on the cab! Spend six DAYS on a cab!
Hey creepy did you know there is companys out there that will sell you a whole cab wired up with controls and ready to go. Why spend 6 days when you can spend 6 seconds plugging it in?

You didn't itemize your build costs so for all we know you could have pulled them out of the air or padded them a bit.

A $500 PC is going to be a lot more powerfull than the xbox. As far as super new optimizable xbox video, you do realize that its 1 1/2yrs old and is no longer new technology right? How much more are you going to be able to optimize it than it is now? New PC's will keep getting faster and better.  Mame is being developed and optimized in a Windows PC environment. Your going to get the newest and best if you stay in the PC environment.

I have an xbox, I love my xbox, lately I've been playing a lot of system link Halo. I don't think its a substitue for a pc in a cab. Can it be done yes its feasible but should you do if your primary goal is mame, I would recomend not.

I don't know a lot about interfacing controls to the xbox or the limits of the interface. Can you hook up trackballs? Spinners? Whats it take to hack the analog inputs into a star wars yoke?

You don't want to be bashed for proposing the xbox but your bashing the people that aren't using an xbox. The BYOAC forums is propably not the place to forward your "BUY" Your Own Arcade Controls agenda.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2003, 01:02:18 pm »
Hey creepfactory,

Why don't you go buy an XBOX and a matrix chip and install MAME?  You don't even need a cabinet because the controls are so well mapped to the already high-quality XBOX controller, you don't need an XARCADE.  In fact, they make home versions of arcade-style sticks for less than $50.  

Personally,  I'd love to see the XBOX become a standard hardware platform for some specially optimized MAME distribution.  It already has several components such as instant on, 5.1 sound, tv out, dvd-rom, ethernet, hard disk, etc.  In fact, you could use the controller ports as connectors to your control panel,  since they are USB plus they run power which could be used for optical joystics, trackballs, LED's etc.  Lots of potential.


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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2003, 01:39:11 pm »
I have a moded xbox with a 20Gb drive in it happily running mamex (i can store every mame rom on the HDD). It also runs emulators for megadrive, snes, nes, amiga and gameboy.
It also doubles up as a very good media system playing mp3s, Divx and other formats from cd or from windows network shares.

I also have an arcade controler which i made out of an old Mortal kombat4 2player panel i found  on ebay.  Currently it is wired into a keyboard hack for pc.. and it works relly well.  But im thinking of modifying it to also work with xbox.

The emulators on the xbox all use the digital pads on the xbox controler... this should really be easy to hack through to the arcade controls shouldnt it?  
i have no interest in playing xbox games with this thing.  but the xbox does have 4 controller inputs so i can even leave 2 normall pads in there alongside the controller.

Anyway.. to get to the point...

A. has anybody taken apart an xbox controller and tried taking feeds from the switches in it?

B. Does anybody know somewhere in England..that can get me cheep xbox pads or broken pads to rip appart for this project?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2003, 01:41:21 pm by wobbie »

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2003, 01:44:25 pm »
So Wobbie, how cool is it to plop down on the couch with a cold drink and instantly play all the mame games? Se to me that's one of the main reasons an X-box cab would rock; instant on! Even die hard pc cabinet fans have to admit it would be kick @ss to just turn no a cabinet, play some Galaga or whatever, flip it off and leave. That's one of the main reasons an X-box cab would be cool, yet most cab builders ignore it! Yea it's just getting started for emus, but as I said before it's way farther along than the pc took, it was a few years to get mame working perfect on a pc, now it is perfect, and I think the Xbox mame will be too! Also do the SNES games play full screen, stereo, no skips or dropped frames/vsync problems?
Thanks Wobbie!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2003, 01:56:27 pm »
The SNES emulator seems very reliable and gives a very good image and sound!

There is a dodgy N64 emulator also that was leaked out before the developers wanted it released. hopefully it will be relased properly soon.

Also i have yet to try BOCHS. But it does look impressive, it will apparently emulate MS DOS and play old DOS games.

There is even a nice port of DOOM /2.. which works well also.

and this morning a beta version of a firmware hack which will give the machine true VGA output has been released. unfortunatly though it not very good yet. but give it a few weeks and hopefully ill be playing my xbox on my nice monitor as well as my tv.

Instant on. low noise. low power consumption. and a really good scene of guys hacking it faster than you could ever imagine.  The xbox is definatly becoming a fantastic machine to base a cabnet on!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2003, 06:16:07 pm »
So Wobbie, how cool is it to plop down on the couch with a cold drink and instantly play all the mame games? Se to me that's one of the main reasons an X-box cab would rock; instant on! Even die hard pc cabinet fans have to admit it would be kick @ss to just turn no a cabinet, play some Galaga or whatever, flip it off and leave.
The Xbox is not instant on, you still need to wait for it to load a disk when you turn it on. Its faster than a PC but its not almost instant like old catridge based consoles. New PC's boot up faster than ever. If you utilize suspend mode on Windows XP you can get the instant and instant off. Utilizing the power strip that I've talked about in other threads gives you console simplicity on your PC. A single press of a power button can turn your whole cab on and launch your emulator or menu off choice, another single press and you can walk away it will close your applications and shut down windows properly then it shuts off everythng in the cab.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2003, 07:04:10 pm »
I have Xp, it is FAR from Instant on, what with the damp sign on screen etc. and the booting of the apps into memory, And it is silly to think Microsoft says it isnt booting in dos, it is! I see it every time! They backed out and it is still booting using the 16 bit code, then it goes into the 64 bit code later, but it is still not a true 64 bit application totally, that would sacrifice too much legacy compatibility for microsoft. Maybe the next MS OS will be trully like the mac ox, with no cli start, just right into the os, but I digress!
Any way you slice it, to hint that ANY windows will start up as fast as a console, yes evn one that boots from cd/dvss like every console does now is silly. No contest, from PS2 to Gamecube to X-box and even ps1 and dreamcast, people would not tollerate a console that takes 5 minutes to boot. My clean install XP takes over three minutes to boot. An xbox takes about 30 seconds of load time!

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2003, 07:33:17 pm »
I have Xp, it is FAR from Instant on, what with the damp sign on screen etc. and the booting of the apps into memory, And it is silly to think Microsoft says it isnt booting in dos, it is! I see it every time! They backed out and it is still booting using the 16 bit code, then it goes into the 64 bit code later, but it is still not a true 64 bit application totally, that would sacrifice too much legacy compatibility for microsoft. Maybe the next MS OS will be trully like the mac ox, with no cli start, just right into the os, but I digress!
Any way you slice it, to hint that ANY windows will start up as fast as a console, yes evn one that boots from cd/dvss like every console does now is silly. No contest, from PS2 to Gamecube to X-box and even ps1 and dreamcast, people would not tollerate a console that takes 5 minutes to boot. My clean install XP takes over three minutes to boot. An xbox takes about 30 seconds of load time!
How fast is your PC? I'm talking about 2ghz plus boxes booting relatively fast.  I've got some 2.8ghz servers booting so fast that the splash screen of win2k server barely flashes on the screen before the login screen pops up. Not as fast as a console but not 3 minutes. Have you tried optimizing your system?

If you don't like the login screen why don't you set it to autologin?

Creep seems most of your problems are because you don't know how to use XP or the search engine on this site.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2003, 02:20:57 pm »
I have a PC running Mame basically a PIII 750, it also doubles as my PC Jukebox with Scott's Great VJB software. I'm just starting to think Mamecab and I have'nt decided on what to do. I have an Xbox and Have been considering a Second one. I have to do some research on the MameX project but how does that work as far as getting Mamex up and running. Does it boot from Disk or Hard Disk? Also would Mamex support the Xbox version of the ArcadeX stick?

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2003, 02:25:44 pm »
You can either play Xmame from a cd/dvd disc or dump it to the xbox hard drive and play it from there. You can even replace the xbox drive with any ide hard drive and store 120+ gigs of divx movies, mp3, game roms, emus etc. You can also transfer and connect to your xbox through a standard network cable with software on the same sites as emus, Xbox ftp proggies

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2003, 02:34:29 pm »
Any good MameX sites with details? You can email me at scarpad@netzero.net  thanks.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2003, 04:03:55 pm »
ok. so its not strictly instant on
...but actually if you store mame and its games on the HDD then it will be very nearly instant .... and if you only want to use mame on the machine, you can set it to automatically load mame upon start up with no xbox logo at all.
Ive never tried it but I reckon youd get into mame from power off within 5seconds and then the games within seconds depending on their size of course.

the only current downfall that i can see is that it wont yet play games larger than 25Mb due to the way it flushes the games into RAM... but this is apparently being worked on.

anyways... i only came on here to ask if anybody had tried it before... but it seems that nobody cares much for trying it!

so ill do it myself and see how it goes.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2003, 05:02:19 pm »
Any good MameX sites with details? You can email me at scarpad@netzero.net  thanks.

you can always goto the MAME-X website  ;)

www.mame-x.com

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2003, 04:20:59 am »
Your computer takes 5 minutes to boot up?  Goodness.  My cabinet is only running an AMD 1.2 and it boots into Win2k and into Game Launcher in ~35 secs.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2003, 10:23:54 am »
the only current downfall that i can see is that it wont yet play games larger than 25Mb due to the way it flushes the games into RAM... but this is apparently being worked on.

anyways... i only came on here to ask if anybody had tried it before... but it seems that nobody cares much for trying it!

so ill do it myself and see how it goes.
Wobbie its not that we aren't open to new ideas. We get a little defensesive when someone like Creep comes in and posts in a less than friendly manner and suggests things like we are wasting our time building controls. For many of us the building experience is as much a part of this hobby as the playing of the games. I would say many of us have spent more time building than we have playing. Thats why this website exists and what keeps this message board so active.

Your ideas are good ones and you have posted them nicely without slamming any one elses ideas. I respect that. I hope you keep posting on your progress. Old habits die hard, its still difficult to convince some people that Windows is a better platform to run on than DOS. Maybe the Xbox will become a cheap way to get a decent performaning system and I can see the potential for it to become a simple plug and play solution eventually.
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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2003, 02:33:41 pm »
Ok, I just want to set the record straight on a few things in defense of the XBOX, not that I am advocating it for MAME cab use, but merely to quash some misinformation.

1. The XBOX IS instant on.  The OS is entirely in the ROM which is what constitutes instant on.  What the XBOX loads when it starts is the DASHBOARD.  You can instead have it immediately load MAMEX, but then you wouldn't be able to do anything else w/ the XBOX.   Furthermore, you can even eliminate the XBOX boot animation from the startup process.  In practice, you can have an XBOX go from complete power-off mode to running MAMEX faster than you could have a 3.0Ghz P4 come out of suspend mode.

2. Currently, MAMEX will run all MAME ROM's up to 64MB (XBOX's memory limit).  Metal Slug 2 is a perfect example of a 64MB ROMSET that runs fine.  They are working on versions of MAMEX that eliminate the 64MB barrier and of course further optimize its already awesome performance.

Imagine if they made an optimised MAME core that you could flash into your XBOX's mod chip, so that the XBOX ran on an OS specifically designed to run MAME games using routines coded to take advantage of every ounce of hardware?  You could run Killer Instinct, Cruisin' World, Tekken, whatever, with no problem whatsover.  Its not a matter of the XBOX not having the hardware to do it, its a matter of writing an emulator than can do it.  Emulators have to be written more like the SNES emulators rather than MAME due to the fundamental differences which are:

MAME is written so that it tells your CPU to "BE" that arcade machine's motherboard, CPU, video chip(s), sound chip(s), and any other supporting hardware.  As long as your PC's CPU is fast enough to pretend its all of that and do it just as fast as the original hardware, it will run the ROMS at full speed.  Mind you, the instructions to tell it how to do all this are written in a language that has to be interpreted by the OS, which is a piece of software that the CPU is already using cycles to keep running.

All the other console emulators could care less what hardware the original ROM was designed to run on.  If the X86 chip can produce a particular result much faster in its native code, it will use that method rather than waste its time emulating a CPU or video chip or sound chip.  Anything that the X86 chip can't directly interpret goes through the quickest possible translation to produce a satisfactory result (sometimes at the expense of accuracy).

Why, then, is it so important that MAME be written so that it HAS to emulate every operation of the original piece of hardware before it can emulate the games?  Simple.  The coders want to preserve the original hardware.  They don't care that the ROMs might run slow.  Being able to play a game with down-to-the-pixel accuracy is just a by-product of the fact that they were successful in emulating the arcade machine's hardware.

I'm sure almost all of you knew this...  Believe me, the XBOX has plenty of horsepower to run all the latest arcade games, just not the way MAME does it.  But since the XBOX is a combination of hardware that is exactly the same in every one produced, maybe the programmers can rely on that and perform optimizations they couldn't on the average PC..

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2003, 04:12:39 pm »
Agreed... I've made this point several times but nobody seems to listen....  

How do you think that the xbox runs state of the art, brand new "pc-like" games on a 700mhz machine with only 64 mb of ram?  Simple because the xbox "os" uses direct hardware calls, which makes the code completely optimized.  Also the os is so pc-like that you can almost instantly port windows applications to the xbox.  It's the best of both worlds.  

Also some clarification about the "boot up" of the xbox.  It is very much instant on and that boot animation is meant to occupy you while the dvd spins up to speed (as the dvd player is slow)  while it does take a sec or two to load up the dash, it doesn't take that long.  M$ decided to keep the animation for when you boot straight into the dash for consistancy's sake.    As it's been posted above, with hacking you can remove this, however.  

And if we are comparing other systems again, all three have a similar boot-up sequence, so it's not really a good argument. They do it for the same reasons... no matter how fast a system is, it takes a while to read a cd/dvd as it has to spin up.   Plus I challenge anyone to find a moderately priced pc that boots as fast as the xbox.  

As killroy pointed out, the xbox is very capable of running the latest arcade games.  As a matter of fact ANY modern console is.... The problem is you can't do it with hacked pc code.  To do it properly the games would have to be coded in native xba code.  Remember, even the most modern arcade games generally don't have more than a 500 mhz processor and about 32 megs of ram.  
The arcade crusin games would run on a frikkin n64!

BUT with that being said.. it's probably not gonna happen anytime soon.  You can get programmers to code side projects (which is what mame and other emus are to them) for free, but only if it's realitively easy.  Getting a person to learn a whole new coding language just for a fun project is a bit harder.  

The only hope would be if a xbox developer would join the mame devs or something similar.  As they could very well get fired for helping the mame dev's with "illegal software" it's not gonna happen.  
 

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2003, 05:00:42 pm »
Um...

If you take the hardware emulation out of MAME and just make it a game playing program, it becomes piracy instead of preservation.

Clutch these little technicalities to your bosom, for they are what allow you to play Mappy whenever you want.

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Re:X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE?
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2003, 12:44:42 pm »
Um...

If you take the hardware emulation out of MAME and just make it a game playing program, it becomes piracy instead of preservation.

Clutch these little technicalities to your bosom, for they are what allow you to play Mappy whenever you want.

Actually, it becomes piracy when you have a copy of a ROM you don't have a legitimate license for.   This usually occurs long before any ROM "reverse engineering"  ::)