Author Topic: X-Box Cabinet: POSSIBLE? (Read 8737 times)

creepfactory · « **on:** February 16, 2003, 11:40:20 am »

I know there have been discussions before, but what is the consensus? CAN an x-box be used as the guts of an arcade cabinett, and the X-box joystick be hacked/soldered into arcade buttons and controls? If the X-box control is analog AND digital like I think, whould that not work? And for 4 way control games like pac man etc., wouldnt a restrictor plate work fine? I say all this because although it's not as polished as the PC emu scene, x-box emus are exploding, I would say they are quality wise what PC emus were three years ago, but catching up VERY fast. You can even have Linux and a keyboard on it, I saw somone also made a DOS emulator, so it seems all the abandonware would work also. I love my pc, but problems with windows, a LONG boot up, etc etc are tiring me. I will still make PC based cabs, but want to hear if ANYONE has made a MAME x-box based cab. I also saw a few companies actually make arcade controlls for the x-box, retail, not the X-arcade, which I would love to hear reviews on from X-box setup. And before the flames, I think we all here had SNES/GENESIS wars in the past, but you KNOW you all owned BOTH, hell I owned them ALL, from NES to 3D0 to FM TOWNS MARTY, I was a fanatic, but emus made them all collect dust by having all my game systems on ONE system; the PC, not I am exploring the X-box as a possible love.
But what do you all think?

eightbit · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2003, 02:54:40 pm »

Its doable. Hacking analog controls is not easy or cheap if its even possible. Some games can use digital controls in place of the the analog but you don't get the variable control. You mentioned not using the x-arcade stick but did you know that x-arcade sells there interface to use in your own panel. Then you can buy the xbox adapter and your set. Your limited by the xbox games you can play with this interface though because most require analog control.

To run linux or x-mame or variations there of you need to mod your xbox. Most people are hesitant to solder anything into the xbox.

I have an xbox, out of the 30 games I have the only one I would want to play on arcade controls in a cab would be DOA3.

Theres nothing better than 4 guys on a couch in front of a big tv drinking beer eating pieces and fragging each other in Halo!

Its been discussed here a few times and the consensus is that if your doing it because your trying to go cheap then its not a good idea. If your doing it because you want to play the few xbox games that can be played with digital controls on an actual arcade panel plus run an emulator then its not a bad way to go. X-mame is not going to give you the performance or flexibility that you get from a real PC.

creepfactory · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2003, 06:25:06 pm »

So has anyone here actually played XMame on a modded X-box? Like I understand MK3 NBA Jam etc would be slow, but are the majority of games perfect? like is the vsync set in Xmame (or is it Mame-X?) on the xbox to the TV out frequency? Really I would love to hear opinions of somone who has tried ANY mame or emus on a modded xbox. Oh by the way Microsoft doesn't seem to care about emus, they just told the X-box emu community to watch it, and that modding the x-box will void X-box live, but who cares anyway, Microsoft even saw $$$$ in their eyes and pointed out "why not buy TWO X-boxes, one to mod, one for Live!"
So unlike Jap-run Sony, who will NEVER in a million years even be OK with any emus on the PS2, Microsoft seems to GET it that a mod community can bring huge intrest in the X-box. I hope the mod community totally denounces copying X-box retail games to keep the man off their backs in the scene, seems the wise choice, most of the x-box games are kinda lame anyway. Except Halo2!

Jakobud · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2003, 08:39:44 pm »

Quote from: creepfactory on February 16, 2003, 06:25:06 pm

So unlike Jap-run Sony, who will NEVER in a million years even be OK with any emus on the PS2, Microsoft seems to GET it that a mod community can bring huge intrest in the X-box.

creefactory, first of all do you know that Sony Computer Entertainment has released a Linux dev kit so you can load up a Linux OS on your PS2? Therefore once you have that OS up and running you can develop/create whatever the heck you want to play on your PS2, including emulators. The kit even includes an amazing amount of documentation about the PS2 hardware so you can develop even more things on it than just regular linux apps!

Second, Microsoft does NOT want people modding their xbox's. I don't know what you are smoking. Don't you remember 6 months ago when Microsoft single-handedly shut down www.lik-sang.com, the number one distro of xbox mod chips?

You are totally confused I think. Micro$oft denounces anyone opening up and modding their precious Xbox while Sony has opening released a kit to allow anyone to loadup Linux on their console, opening the door for anyone do develop anything they want on it. Get your facts straight dude. I can't understand how people can even support Microsoft....

Back to the main topic, if you are skilled enough to 1. hack analog controls for the XBOX and 2. Solder in a modchip, then maybe using an xbox as your primary system wouldn't be bad. Don't forget though that it's only running ~700MHz. I don't think thats even enough speed for Mortal Kombat era games. Neo Geo and CPS1/2 games should be fine on it though.

eightbit · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2003, 09:49:45 pm »

Quote from: creepfactory on February 16, 2003, 06:25:06 pm

I hope the mod community totally denounces copying X-box retail games to keep the man off their backs in the scene, seems the wise choice, most of the x-box games are kinda lame anyway. Except Halo2!

Halo2? There is no Halo2 yet.

Brax · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2003, 10:32:47 pm »

Quote from: eightbit on February 16, 2003, 09:49:45 pm

Quote from: creepfactory on February 16, 2003, 06:25:06 pm
I hope the mod community totally denounces copying X-box retail games to keep the man off their backs in the scene, seems the wise choice, most of the x-box games are kinda lame anyway. Except Halo2!
Halo2? There is no Halo2 yet.

http://www.gamers.com/game/1216284

Yes there is, YOU just can't have it yet!

creepfactory · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2003, 10:41:06 pm »

Yea I know about the Ps2 Dev kit, but there are apparently ZERO emus on the ps2! One guy made one then laughed as he said he wont release it! And he says it runs perfect. SO let me get this straight, X-box isnt powerful enough, but the ps2 is, an admitted slower cpu, less ram, NO hard drive etc etc. So ps2 should be SLOWER using mame, than an x-box. And sony also wont allow emus. Sigh. I guess its back to the PC as platform number one for emus! Now I need to find a mobo with EVERYTHING built in for like $300! that would rock! Anyone know a great, cheap all in one small motherboard with onboard audtio, video, Network, Usb, TV out?

Jakobud · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2003, 04:16:09 am »

creepfactory,

First of all, any emulator you can run on Linux, you can run on the ps2 linux dev kit. Any of them. There is a hell of a lot more emulators for linux than for xbox.

Second, the ps2 linux devkit has a 40 gig hard drive included in it.

Third, you can easily find a good mobo that has all that stuff for $300. Take a look at the shuttle systems. I just ordered one for my home system.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:33:24 am »

Quote from: Jakobud on February 17, 2003, 04:16:09 am

First of all, any emulator you can run on Linux, you can run on the ps2 linux dev kit. Any of them. There is a hell of a lot more emulators for linux than for xbox.

There isn't much for linux though

Also, to what you said before, 700Mhz IS GOOD FOR MAME!!! at least for the games you will be able to play on the xbox with only 32 megs of memory. And I play mame on a 500Mhz machine!!!!!

The PS2 has the same limitation, it can plan all the games it is able to with the very limited amount of resources it has. Heck, I play mame on my DC with no problems. It's not the speed that counts on those systems for emulation, it's the memory.

Remember, mame extracts the zip files of the games into memory first.

killr0y · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2003, 07:25:57 am »

First of all, Metal Slug 2 runs silky smooth on the XBOX under MAMEX, let alone all the lesser graphic intensive games.

Second, if most XBOX games are "kinda lame", you must really laugh at most of the PS2 games, not to mention all the MAME games. I bet you make jokes about the classics to all your friends.

Third, the SNES emulator on the XBOX is second to NOTHING, including the SNES. It looks better, plays better and has more features.

The only reason I wouldn't build a MAME cab out of an XBOX is because that would be a waste of an XBOX.

As a sidenote, its awesome to play divx movies on the XBOX which streams from my server's HDD. It also way cool to stream www.shoutcast.com audio streams to it.

My new cab is going to double as a Jukebox w/ audio streaming but I'm not going to use my XBOX, just gonna build another PC. My XBOX stays on my 35" WEGA w/ my 7.1 Yamaha surround system.

creepfactory · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2003, 10:27:32 am »

WHOA there Kilroy, I should clarify myself, by kinda lame I meant to play in an arcade cabinet. Playing Splintercel with a stick would be hard, but Splinter Cel is INCREDIBLE as a game. I would never make fun of the classics, by the way, I treasure them. As far as using an x-box in a cab, you convinced me MORE to use it, so the SNES emu is that good huh? Better than even a REAL snes? If so I WILL get an xbox and mod chip for the cabinet. So you dont see the pretty xbox all the time, hell I think it's actually not near as well designed as a ps2 for looks, the xbox is a MONSTER, probably the biggest console system I have ever seen! But it does rock for power and emus. By the way check again all, I can't find ANY emus for ps2 i can download anywhere, and Holy crapola, I am not dumping a grand into a Ps2 dev kit just for a cab, and sorry but Linux does NOT have the best or large number of emus, yes it has mame, but the price of a ps2 kit is just way too expensive.

Trenchbroom · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2003, 12:35:24 pm »

Xbox has heavy emu development because it is what it is--a glorified PC. Hence you will find a rapidly growing assortment of Xbox emu's mostly based on open source projects (Xmame, DGEN, Frodo, UAE and the beautiful XSNES9X).

There are mod chips now that do not require soldering (Matrix which I use). The primary reason I bought my Xbox was to mod it for console emulation; aracde gaming means standing in front of a big cabinet, and console gaming means sitting in a banana chair, controller in hand in front of the big TV in my living room. I now have both.

As for using the Xbox as a cab computer, I agree that it is feasible but it is not worth the bucks. The only situation where I would consider it would be for a cocktail cab that has very little room for the computer inside, and even then a micro ATX would probably perform as well and be better for the price.

And in response to "supporting" Microsoft by buying an Xbox: if all you use it for is for modding/emulation/linux, etc. and don't buy any games then you are actually hurting MS since they are losing approx $100 on each unit that is sold. Consoles are always a "loss leader" item w/ hardware because they make their money on software. I actually don't condone this personally --I do want Xbox to succeed so that there is a fat supply of Xbox games to play on it and I'm not paranoid about Microsoft hegemony. But if you are blinded w/ rage against the evil Redmond Empire then you might consider buying one.

creepfactory · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2003, 12:43:43 pm »

So Trenchbroom
Yes It does sound cool to use the Xbox as my console dream machine in front of the TV and not in a cabinet. So how happy are you with it for that? Can you play Genesis/ snes etc PERFECT on the xbox? Like to be specific, does Super Mario World play 100% as good as a real snes? And Sonic, does it have no choppy vsync problems, or is it rock solid 60fps?

Trenchbroom · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2003, 03:54:58 pm »

For SNES it's damn near perfect. A few sound quibbles here and there. Was playing Super Mario RPG and Starfox on it last night--no slowdown at all and it looks like the real deal.

Genesis I haven't burned a disc yet so I have no personal experience but I've heard the emulation isn't as fully developed. DGEN is a relatively new emu to the Xbox--I have no doubt that it would be fully compatible and full speed in a few more releases. Same situation w/ NES emulators right now. Hell even the Atari 2600 emulator is a bit slow! It just takes a little time to port these emu's over and optimize them for the machine.

Other consoles w/ emu's that are works in progress include SMS, Virtual Gameboy, Colecovision, Lynx, N64 and some computers (C64 w/ Frodo, Amiga w/ UAE--why would you emulate a computer on a console w/o a keyboard? Hmm).

gui_999 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2003, 04:47:30 pm »

http://pages.infinit.net/cradle/hypermoe.htm

Check this out.. one of my friend did a Xbox based cab

Jakobud · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2003, 09:26:59 pm »

Just a side not creepfactory, to let you know the PS2 LINUX dev kit I am referring to is NOT the same thing as the T10000 PS2 game dev kit. The Linux devkit is available to anyone and is only like $200 or something (at least it was last I checked. Probably cheaper by now). And if you are searching for "PS2 emulators" you won't find much. But searching for "Linux emulators" you will find more. I was just saying that there are a lot of linux emulators that you could run on a ps2 that is running linux.

Hope the xbox route works well for you in the cabinet, since imho it isn't good for anything else.

eightbit · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2003, 08:58:13 am »

Quote from: Jakobud on February 17, 2003, 09:26:59 pm

Hope the xbox route works well for you in the cabinet, since imho it isn't good for anything else.

Now why did you have to say that? Nobodys slamming you for choosing the inferior PS/2.

Looking simply at the hardware specs of modding a ps/2 or an xbox it seems to me that the xbox would win hands down. They both cost the same to start but the ps/2 still needs a hard drive.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:30:20 am »

Quote from: eightbit on February 18, 2003, 08:58:13 am

Quote from: Jakobud on February 17, 2003, 09:26:59 pm
Hope the xbox route works well for you in the cabinet, since imho it isn't good for anything else.
Now why did you have to say that? Nobodys slamming you for choosing the inferior PS/2.

Looking simply at the hardware specs of modding a ps/2 or an xbox it seems to me that the xbox would win hands down. They both cost the same to start but the ps/2 still needs a hard drive.

Agreed 100%. Jakobud has a personal interest in sony and thus he's sensitive about it.

The reason sony released the linux kit is because, quite frankly their sales are slipping, and understandably so since it's the most aged of the three systems. As they have pretty much saturated the market with hardware, they are simply trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of it berfore it's run is over. They can afford to do that as they are an established game company and the ps2 is much cheaper to make than the xbox.

M$ is new to the market and thus they have to fight piracy. They fight it not because of box modding, but because of people modding the box soley to play modded software or pirated games. As it's been said a thousand times xbox makes it's money off of the software. And unlike sony who releases a billion shovelware games a month m$ invests and incredible amount of resources into in house games.

The thing is they both cost the same and the xbox has better specs so obviously most intelligent "hardcore hackers" choose the xbox over the ps2. So in other words sony can afford to release a dev kit as serious programmers won't use it, but m$ can't.

And hardware wise the xbox is superior in every way, so I don't even have to go into that. It's the obvious choice to modd.

Quite honestly I've hated sony since almost day one because they seem to value quantity over quality. Remember guys the ps1 was nintendo's reject project for the most part so that should tell you something.

Think about it... nintendo has given us great series like mario, zelda, metroid, donkey kong and others. Sega has given us sonic, and altered beast and a slew of great sports games. Microsoft is new on the block but it's already established itself with great titles like halo and splinter cell. So what exactly has sony brought to the table over the years? Metal Gear... nope it started on the nes. Final Fantasy? Nope nes again. I honestly can't think of a single orignal sony game worth mentioning except for twisted metal 2 (as every other version sucked according to both hardcore fans and casual gamers).

So although financially the xbox isn't a success yet, it's already made more of an impact to the gaming industry, software wise, than sony has in it's 6+ years.

Was my point to bash sony? No not really. My point is if your are going to bash a gaming company NEVER backup sony as it's really a case of the pot calling the kettle black. It's an ok system with ok games. Yes it's extremely popular, but only to the casual gamer. (Kind of like how pop music is extremely popular to everyone but music fans.) Hardcore gamers will always side with the consoles with innovate titles, and quite frankly, sony doesn't have any right now, nor have they ever.

killr0y · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2003, 02:32:44 pm »

Strange, I haven't had any slowdown with my SNES emu on the XBOX... I have one of those no-solder Matrix mod chips running the Evox BIOS and Dashboard. I also threw in an 80GB hard drive so I have all the MAME games, as well as all my favorite SNES & Genesis games. Its so awesome to be able to switch from game to game without getting up.. and its cool that you can hit a button to speed the game along by 20x when you are forced to sit through the dialogue in some games. The component out (if you have the HDTV adapter) makes SNES games look sooo sharp too!

Quote from: Trenchbroom on February 17, 2003, 03:54:58 pm

For SNES it's damn near perfect. A few sound quibbles here and there. Was playing Super Mario RPG and Starfox on it last night--no slowdown at all and it looks like the real deal.

Genesis I haven't burned a disc yet so I have no personal experience but I've heard the emulation isn't as fully developed. DGEN is a relatively new emu to the Xbox--I have no doubt that it would be fully compatible and full speed in a few more releases. Same situation w/ NES emulators right now. Hell even the Atari 2600 emulator is a bit slow! It just takes a little time to port these emu's over and optimize them for the machine.

Other consoles w/ emu's that are works in progress include SMS, Virtual Gameboy, Colecovision, Lynx, N64 and some computers (C64 w/ Frodo, Amiga w/ UAE--why would you emulate a computer on a console w/o a keyboard? Hmm).

Jakobud · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2003, 07:42:29 pm »

hehehe.....great thread. woohoo 300 posts for me!

Yeah I have personal interest in Sony so I think I will always side with them simply because of that, but at the same time I play a lot of my friends' Xbox games at home and just don't see what the big deal is. Yes it's more powerful than the ps2 but the fact is that the ps2 just has more better funner games on it. Halo is the only game that is on XBox that makes it stand out from ps2 and gamecube (and Halo is 1 1/4 yrs old). Every other good game on XBox is also available for ps2 and/or gamecube it seems. So it's just a matter of which system has the best content. That's what it's always been about and what it's always gonna be about. Not power or performance. That's why I enjoy the ps2 more. PS2 has sold over 50million consoles while XBox has just barely sold 10million. I think that means a lot. Just my opinion though folks. I look at the numbers and just say it like it is.

But this whole idea for XBox for a mame cabinet I think would be good, if you can solder in modchips and hack analog controls. More power to ya

eightbit · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2003, 08:52:56 pm »

Quote from: Jakobud on February 18, 2003, 07:42:29 pm

Yes it's more powerful than the ps2

So if its the same game on both systems wouldn't you want the faster system with the better graphics?

Frostillicus · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2003, 09:07:21 pm »

Well I agree with HC and eightbit by saying the xbox is clearly the better, more innovative machine with overall better games - though obviously not as many. I only have 11 games but each one is HIGH quality software - I'd rather play one game a looong time and get really absorbed(like splintercell or gunvalkyrie) than 10 games for 5 minutes each like PS2.

But it's my understanding that modding xboxes is slightly frowned upon by M$(understatement?

) and that doing so permanently bans that particular xbox from the xbox live network. I rather like that service.

I followed xboxhacker.net for a few months after xbox release but it just seemed the main purpose of trying to get stuff to play on an xbox, like linux, was to stick a thumb in the eye of M$, not for real practical use. I'd just get a small mini-computer like the shuttle mentioned earlier if I wanted to DO anything on it. I'm all about the less hassle the better

creepfactory · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2003, 10:46:47 pm »

Hey Kilroy, I am drueling! So playing Console SNES and Genny stuff is 100% perfect? Also are most mame games that work, work well or stuttery? And do you listen to mp3s and watch divx and picture browse with the xbox? And lastly how do you transfer files to it? Do you use a network connection?
THANKS!

killr0y · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2003, 11:51:36 pm »

Yes, you use the built-in ethernet connection and just copy files from your PC to the XBOX via FTP. There are other ways available now too. The emulations are dead-on.. only a few MAME games cause problems, i.e. anything you'd have trouble running on a 733mhz PC.. also, ROMS over 64MB don't run either but that's being worked on. The thing about the XBOX is they can code MAME super-tight (should they ever do so) since they code for one type of hardware, thus taking advantage of the XBOX hardware. MP3's and DIVX can be streamed off your PC or run off the XBOX's hard disk. BTW, that Sony-Lover is wrong.. they make no-solder mod chips for XBOX that take 5 mins to install.

Quote from: creepfactory on February 18, 2003, 10:46:47 pm

Hey Kilroy, I am drueling! So playing Console SNES and Genny stuff is 100% perfect? Also are most mame games that work, work well or stuttery? And do you listen to mp3s and watch divx and picture browse with the xbox? And lastly how do you transfer files to it? Do you use a network connection?
THANKS!

creepfactory · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:04:46 am »

So can you just pop in a CD full of mp3s and play them right ON the xbox though? Or even then drag them off onto the hard drive of the xbox, no pc used at all, like could I dump all my Mp3 cd roms onto it, and Mame roms etc etc? And lastly is there a keyboard and/or mouse for the xbox?
Thanks!

Jakobud · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:10:59 am »

Quote from: eightbit on February 18, 2003, 08:52:56 pm

Quote from: Jakobud on February 18, 2003, 07:42:29 pm
Yes it's more powerful than the ps2
So if its the same game on both systems wouldn't you want the faster system with the better graphics?

If you look back at my first reply you will see that I was just correcting creep after he said that Sony doesn't want anyone running emulators on the PS2. Then it got into this whole which system is better (ignoring the Mame aspect) thread.

And regarding what you just asked, I'd have to say that I would want to choose whichever system the game looked and played better on, BUT not at the expense of ignoring every other game for that system. If I have game that comes out on PS2, XBox, and Gamecube, and the XBox looks a better because of some special lighting effects in the game or something, I would still rather own a PS2 to play the game on simply because there are so many more better and funner games available. I would never buy a system simply because it has a faster processor can push more polygons or something like that. It's amazing how much of that marketing stuff actually pulls people into buying an XBox and then they realize that most of the games aren't that good, no matter how good they look.

I'm not trying to push buttons and I know there are a lot of XBox M$ lovers out there. It's only my OPINION that I think PS2 is better. If you think XBox is your thing, then that's fine.

I just don't feel like supporting a company like M$. They are desperately trying to get into EVERY market there is simply so they can control everything. They already unfortunately own the desktop market. If they had a great product that would be one thing, but instead we get a different patch from M$ every other week regarding bugs and security holes in IE...Where as with Sony, I can see how a lot of people would consider them to a 800lb gorilla. But with the PS2...there are no complaints. Its a great system that has served up great games and many many many hours of enjoyment for millions of people. It's doing it's job and it's doing it well. That's why I support them.

my opinion, people....opinion...

Hey they make no-solder mod chips for XBox? Well that would make it easier for the whole mame cabinet thing i guess. Yes I am a "Sony-Lover"

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #26 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:26:26 am »

Yeah, the no-solder modchip is called The Matrix...its $59.

But, is there a working MAME emu for xbox? I haven't heard of anything new in a while regarding that.

jets · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:38:04 am »

Quote from: creepfactory on February 16, 2003, 10:41:06 pm

Yea I know about the Ps2 Dev kit, but there are apparently ZERO emus on the ps2! One guy made one then laughed as he said he wont release it! And he says it runs perfect.

I've run genesis and SNES games on my ps2 so there you go. I played these games last year sometime so get into the loop.

Jakobud · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2003, 02:29:39 am »

Quote from: Magnet_Eye on February 19, 2003, 01:26:26 am

Yeah, the no-solder modchip is called The Matrix...its $59.

But, is there a working MAME emu for xbox? I haven't heard of anything new in a while regarding that.

Last I heard about that Mame-X (or is it XMame?) is that it was shut down very quickly. It's difficult to even find the latest beta binary to download.

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2003, 03:38:52 am »

yeah i know.. i did just find a .rar file with beta .5, .6, & .7 though!

and yes it is called MAMEx

gui_999 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 19, 2003, 07:04:58 am »

Yeah it's mame-x and the latess beta is beta 7

Working fine, but since the Xbox is limited to 64 mb of ram.. games that need more doesn't work.

But some guys on the scene are trying to put more ram on the Xbox ( there's unused spot on the Xbox mother board for that ). They ordered some sdram chip and soldered it on the mother board and it's working. They even cleared the 64 mb flag that enable software to use all available memory. But mame-x wasn't programed to use the ram, so now we are all waiting for a new version that will use all the memory.

But for all the old games.. mame-x works fine.

killr0y · « **Reply #31 on:** February 19, 2003, 10:47:57 am »

They are working on MAME so that it bank swaps the ROMS instead of having to load all the banks into RAM at one time. They do this in the real arcade machines anyway so I don't see why it hasn't been done sooner. Loading the entire ROMSET into RAM is a waste of RAM to begin with, but when most PC's have at least 256 these days its not a problem.

As for Sony Boy, dude come on, noone wants to read your 10 page responses as to why you like your PS2. This is a site about MAME. I guess there always has to be a PS2 fanboy around whenever you mention the word XBOX.. almost like they feel the need to defend their purchase.. hmmm

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #32 on:** February 19, 2003, 12:31:14 pm »

Quote from: Frostillicus on February 18, 2003, 09:07:21 pm

Well I agree with HC and eightbit by saying the xbox is clearly the better, more innovative machine with overall better games - though obviously not as many. I only have 11 games but each one is HIGH quality software - I'd rather play one game a looong time and get really absorbed(like splintercell or gunvalkyrie) than 10 games for 5 minutes each like PS2.

But it's my understanding that modding xboxes is slightly frowned upon by M$(understatement? ) and that doing so permanently bans that particular xbox from the xbox live network. I rather like that service.

I followed xboxhacker.net for a few months after xbox release but it just seemed the main purpose of trying to get stuff to play on an xbox, like linux, was to stick a thumb in the eye of M$, not for real practical use. I'd just get a small mini-computer like the shuttle mentioned earlier if I wanted to DO anything on it. I'm all about the less hassle the better

All the newer mod chips cna be bypassed.... unless you are doing something funky hardware-wise you can simply turn off your mod chip to play xbox live.

With that being said.... xbox linux, like ps2 linux and dc linux is lame and worthless. As you said these consoles simply don't have enough juice to doing anything on.

BUT as xbox is practially a pc, there are dedicated emus for the xbox that don't require linux. mamex is a good example and there are u64emus, snes emus and ect....

If you are wanting to make a linux box with emulators then I couldn't reccomend any of the systems to you. If you want to play emulated games then it's gotta be the xbox.

And yes m$ HATES for you to modd the xbox, but mostly because some people don't actually buy xbox games, but buy the console just to hack and run linux on it. This is a bad idea as it doesn't support the xbox and those great m$ titles but instead hurts them. So if you are going to buy a xbox to hack, please buy about 5 or so games to go with it so it will offset m$'s losses.

Also regarding those input issues... linux on the xbox will support keyboards and mice, but you have to hack their cables to plug them in and it's only certain brands at this point. I find this feature useless, however as the games themselves won't detect said, keybaord and mice. It is nice for mucking around in linux though.

Trenchbroom · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:09:04 pm »

Quote from: killr0y on February 19, 2003, 10:47:57 am

They are working on MAME so that it bank swaps the ROMS instead of having to load all the banks into RAM at one time. They do this in the real arcade machines anyway so I don't see why it hasn't been done sooner.

How would this work? Since the ROM info is stored on a comparatively slow medium (hard drive vs. real ROM chips) How can it bank switch the ROM info from the hard drive w/o causing the game to stutter?

killr0y · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:49:55 pm »

The Motorola 68000 (Which is the NeoGeo's CPU) can only address 16MB of memory at a given time. It has to use bank switching in order to read more than that. Therefore, an XBOX would actually need only 16MB + whatever is needed to run the OS/Emulator. Also, a 12Mhz Motorola 68000 has a RAM bus throughput of 20MB/s which is not a whole lot faster than the XBOX's hard drive read capability. All you need to do is set aside 16MB for ROM read-ahead cache and there is no delay issue. Like I said, its not a factor for mame because most PC's have gobs of RAM, and the OS takes care of the virtual memory just incase there isn't enough RAM. So there are two ways to accomplish the issue.. either implement bank switching via emulator or page faulting via the OS.

Quote from: Trenchbroom on February 19, 2003, 01:09:04 pm

Quote from: killr0y on February 19, 2003, 10:47:57 am
They are working on MAME so that it bank swaps the ROMS instead of having to load all the banks into RAM at one time. They do this in the real arcade machines anyway so I don't see why it hasn't been done sooner.

How would this work? Since the ROM info is stored on a comparatively slow medium (hard drive vs. real ROM chips) How can it bank switch the ROM info from the hard drive w/o causing the game to stutter?

Jakobud · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2003, 01:56:53 pm »

quit trollin' killroy. it's old.

Trenchbroom · « **Reply #36 on:** February 19, 2003, 02:59:44 pm »

That clears it up--thanks KillRoy!

shmokes · « **Reply #37 on:** February 19, 2003, 07:31:16 pm »

Franchises that began with Sony?

...Give me a break:

Silent Hill, Resident Evil, NFL Gameday, Ratchet and Clank, Devil May Cry, Ape Escape, Fear Effect, Medal Gear Solid (as though the NES game is even relavent with regards to the Solid series - not that it wasn't great), Wipeout, Tomb Raider (revolutionary for its time; too bad they milked it dry), Dino Crisis, Gran Turismo, Dance Dance Revolution (arcade port, but still only on Playstation), Twisted Medal Black (hah, there is more than one good version), Parappa the Rapper, Driver...etc.....etc.....etc.....etc......etc.... I could seriously go on for at least fifty more games. How could you even make such a ridiculous claim? You poor soul. Please tell me that you haven't passed up all of these brilliant pieces of software out of brand loyalty. Nintendo doesn't care about you. Microsoft doesn't care about you. They, like Sony, are in it for the money. You should be in it for the games. Do I honestly have to explain that to you. You know that they pay their spokespeople LOADS of money don't you. If they're not going to pay you loads of money why are you acting like a spokesperson.

That said the only "this generation" console I own right now is a Gamecube cos I'm a sucker for Nintendo games and money ain't growin on trees. And the controller is like butter.

eightbit · « **Reply #38 on:** February 19, 2003, 08:02:56 pm »

Quote from: shmokes on February 19, 2003, 07:31:16 pm

That said the only "this generation" console I own right now is a Gamecube cos I'm a sucker for Nintendo games and money ain't growin on trees. And the controller is like butter.

I own an xbox, I like my xbox. I think the graphics are superior to any other console and I like the newer smaller style controllers that they have.

I played on a gamecube for the first time today. I was not impressed with the graphics and I didn't like the controller. The buttons are all different sizes and almost seem to be randomly placed.

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #39 on:** February 19, 2003, 11:31:03 pm »

Personally, I must say that Nintendo is the best. They have always had the most original games and characters. Sega and everyone else has imitated Nintendo. I think Nintendo was the first to have a Mascot type character (Mario), and everyone else has followed suit (Sega with Sonic, etc).

I think Nintendo has always had the most imaginative games/characters, and still do a good job to this day. Some people complaing that Nintendo is for kids..well they always have been. Most of us got hooked on Nintendo when we were kids, duh.

The NES rocked in its day! Nintendo rules!

Zelda anyone?

(sorry for the rant)

-M


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