Leaf spring switches...where'd they go?

[erictrumpet]

I just pulled the spring from a button and installed it in a mock CP and man it I gotta say it feels pretty good!

The spring to remove is the big one inside the body of the button itself. Take the microswitch off the button, squeeze the little tabby things together and slide the button out of the threaded shaft. Take out the spring, reassemble.

I am not sure yet if I like the ultra-light feel this gives the button, but my initial reaction is "hmmmm this is kinda nice!" So, I might pull the springs out of all my buttons and try it for a while. Thanks for the great suggestion!

Eric.

[thebrownshow]

I use a PC monitor, and I apply scanlines and vector flicker and stuff like that to give it the old look, but overall I prefer the modern, cleaner look.

Blasphemer!

[whammoed]

Before I do my next build I plan on setting up a microswitch and leaf button side by side and seeing which one I can fire faster in a given time period.

[erictrumpet]

Not to get off topic but a PC monitor is soooooo the way to go IMO. Arcade monitors are great, and I think they are the better choice EXCEPT in an all-in-one mame cab that will play vector games. Don't kid yourselves guys, even on your awesome Betson or WG monitors, vector games look like absolute crap and you shouldn't even have those games on your cab if that's what kind of monitor you have (IMHO). With a PC monitor set the res at 1600x1200, apply antialiasing, and tweak the vector brightness and other settings and you can actually get a decent picture. To me, a PC monitor was the only option because a mame cab without tempest, asteroids, star wars, Gravitar, Star Castle, Omega Race, etc etc etc is not a mame cab at all! This is a topic about leaf buttons so if you want to discuss this (or flame me) start a new thread.

Eric.

[MaximRecoil]

I mean, do any of you guys still use rotary phones for the tactile satisfaction of turning the dial to call your mother?

Uhhhh, yeah! Do you have a problem with that ?

[erictrumpet]

Wow I have to admit those phones are pretty badass

[Jabba]

You could easily knock someone out with that badass receiver by clipping him in the head.   

[RayB]

Yeah, I'm not exactly which spring to remove. Do you open up the Micro Switch?

You have to pop out the plunger.

[Jabba]

Hmmm, unfortunately, this switch does not have a spring. Its a Happs Cherry 95073301... (Sorry for ther fuzzy picture)

[MaximRecoil]

Hmmm, unfortunately, this switch does not have a spring. Its a Happs Cherry 95073301... (Sorry for ther fuzzy picture)

You aren't supposed to open up the switch, at least not if you are trying out what RandyT mentioned. You are supposed to remove the spring from the button mechanism itself.

[erictrumpet]

Up above I explain how to remove the spring. I did it and it makes the switch action extremely light -- I kinda like it.

Eric.

[thebrownshow]

Just tried it on an extra button I had lying around from Ultimarc, did a side-by-side comparison with the two buttons, one with the button spring and one without, and I've got to be honest, I didn't notice much of a difference at all, even with my Track & Field motion (index and middle finger on each edge of the button, alternating).

[Jabba]

Hey Jabba, I've got a bunch of Wico sticks in similar condition to yours. If you're ordering replacement switches and buttons maybe we can combine orders to save a few $ shipping and taxes. I'm also in Ottawa

Sure, sounds like a good plan to me. How about in the new year? I might be looking to get one or two of those Suzo's too. Where in Ottawa are you? I'm in Kanata...

[RandyT]

Just tried it on an extra button I had lying around from Ultimarc, did a side-by-side comparison with the two buttons, one with the button spring and one without, and I've got to be honest, I didn't notice much of a difference at all, even with my Track & Field motion (index and middle finger on each edge of the button, alternating).

If you have a hard actuating microswitch, you might not.  There is a definite difference using the switches supplied with the buttons by HAPP.

RandyT

[Kremmit]

I still have one of those old rotary phones on my desk.  Sucks to dial with, and forget about voice-mail, but I've never, ever found another phone with the same sound quality- both speaking and listening.  It's comfy to hold, too.

[danny_galaga]

I mean, do any of you guys still use rotary phones for the tactile satisfaction of turning the dial to call your mother?

Uhhhh, yeah! Do you have a problem with that ?

[Quarters]

Hey Jabba, I've got a bunch of Wico sticks in similar condition to yours. If you're ordering replacement switches and buttons maybe we can combine orders to save a few $ shipping and taxes. I'm also in Ottawa

Sure, sounds like a good plan to me. How about in the new year? I might be looking to get one or two of those Suzo's too. Where in Ottawa are you? I'm in Kanata...

Cool.
I'm right downtown. I'll pm you early in the new year then.

[thebrownshow]

If you have a hard actuating microswitch, you might not.  There is a definite difference using the switches supplied with the buttons by HAPP.

I might have some of them lying around, I'll give a try with the HAPP microswitches.

[Wade]

I tend to agree with RandyT on a lot of things, and I respect his opinion, but I disagree about microswitches vs. leaf.

My classic games have leaf switches, and I've never had an issue with any of them not working.  I have micros on my MAME, and I am planning to switch them to leaf because of the feel.

The feel of a micro vs. leaf is HUGE.  My T&F cocktail has leafs and the buttons have a pretty long travel (as do some of my other classics), and help bounce your finger back.  Pushing a micro button is not HARDER, but it doesn't give the same feedback and has a very short travel.  Pushing a micro feels more like pushing on a hard surface that isn't a switch at all (no feedback and very little bounce).

I have tried playing T&F on the micros and it plays horribly that way!

Wade

[RayB]

Pushing a micro feels more like pushing on a hard surface that isn't a switch at all (no feedback and very little bounce).

Imagine those who like those Sanwa buttons. I feel those are even more like just pushing on a hard surface. I'm not sure those buttons have any springs at all.

[RandyT]

I think this is going to be ones of those "matter of taste" things.

My experiences were based on a kid (me) with serious play habits.  My system would get at least 3-4 hours of play every day.  I found myself needing to tweak the switches after only a couple of weeks at that pace.  And once you start tweaking them, you will need to keep doing it,  as every time you bend a piece of metal, it will fatigue it more and more.  Until eventually, they will need to be replaced.

Another thing that will vary is the amount of corrosion the contact points get.  If you live in a humid environment, this is likely to be more of a concern.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is a functionality problem, only a maintenance one.  There's a reason why entire industries, including the arcade one, turned their backs on these things.  And if someone thinks it was for a different reason, I'm all ears .

So if you are a tinkerer and/or you do more "building" than playing, you don't mind the extra costs involved and you want true retro buttons to go with the retro WICO joystick you are using, then stick to the leaf switch buttons.

But I would have a hard time recommending them to anyone else.  That's just my opinion.

RandyT

*EDIT*
Maybe that "optical buttons" thing that popped up a while back is the real answer to this one

[Wade]

I think this is going to be ones of those "matter of taste" things.
...
RandyT

Definitely!  I'm sure there are people who have only played games with micro buttons, too, and those might be their preference.

A lot of people are probably like me, and I was perfectly happy with my micro buttons until I gained access to a bunch of classic games that use leaf switches.  The difference in feel was noticed immediately.

Come on Randy, really, how can you favor reliability over authenticity, when a lot of us are really into the classics?  Classics have FAR more expensive and difficult issues with reliability than tweaking a switch once every 5-10 years.  When a game breaks and it's only a switch, boy am I thrilled to repair it!!  

(versus a $200 game board or monitor chassis!)

Wade

[RandyT]

Come on Randy, really, how can you favor reliability over authenticity, when a lot of us are really into the classics?

I play the classics too!  But I have never felt that the microswitch buttons detracted from them.  I actually have those icky "harder to press" vertical buttons on my cab  (I really need to replace those) but can still group those four shots in Asteroids just as tightly as I did in the old days.  And Galaga?  Is someone going to tell me that they can't play something as slow as Galaga with a microswitch button?   I mean, I understand the desire to re-create the memories, but a lot of my arcade memories involved playing on sub-standard equipment that was almost always in some sort of disrepair.

But I also have more practical reasons.  My cab is also a test rig.  When I'm testing an interface or a new idea, I can't have a button misfiring and sending me on a goosechase.  BTW, interface performance is  negatively impacted by long debounce delays, and nothing needs good debouncing like a leaf switch

RandyT

[erictrumpet]

I understand the desire to re-create the memories, but a lot of my arcade memories involved playing on sub-standard equipment that was almost always in some sort of disrepair.

AMEN brother. We need to remember this! Nostalgia is great, and it is my primary motivation/inspiration in this hobby, but I also understand that what I am endeavoring to build should - nay, MUST - be BETTER than the old crappy public machines I used to play on. Micros offer many advantages over leaves, but ultimately it comes down to personal preference. Leaves in an enthusiast's scratch-built cabinet will receive much more love, attention, maintenance, and appreciation than the leaves of old. That alone means we won't be completely reliving the horrors of yesteryear. Nevertheless, Randy has hit on an important point, that what we all remember so fondly would probably make us wretch in disgust today.

Eric.

[Necro]

Just a slightly OT solution to T&F: force your forearms into spasms over the buttons.  I don't know if everyone can do this, or if it's some freaky thing I can do, but it works pretty well for me (on my pinging X-arcade...that's right, I'm the white trash of BYOAC.  Leave me alone. )

Only hard part is stopping it and hitting the jump/whatever button dead on right.

[erictrumpet]

necro i know totally what you mean, i sort of go into semi-controlled arm convulsions which gets me running pretty fast, but stopping to hit the action button is the hard part

[Kremmit]

Use your nose for the action button. 

[RayB]

So you're saying Michael J Fox could be the T&F champion?