Author Topic: TV: S-video vs. Component (Read 97737 times)

Wienerdog · « **Reply #40 on:** April 03, 2003, 10:45:12 pm »

Unfortunately my pictures came out like junk (can't take a picture of the TV). I'm not even going to post them because they are misleading. In fact, I could match S-Video pictures to Component pictures that make the Component look better, or I could match pictures that make the S-Video look better. The bottom line is that the component always looks better.

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #41 on:** April 03, 2003, 10:49:24 pm »

Quote from: Wienerdog on April 02, 2003, 11:50:30 pm

I am having significant overscan problems but haven't had time to play with it yet.

What do you mean by "overscan" problems?

Wienerdog · « **Reply #42 on:** April 03, 2003, 11:49:22 pm »

Wienerdog · « **Reply #43 on:** April 03, 2003, 11:53:55 pm »

Quote from: Sasquatch! on April 03, 2003, 10:49:24 pm

What do you mean by "overscan" problems?

From ATI: "TVs overscan images, typically 5%, and this can result in part of the image being cut off the display."

Look at my pictures above, you can see all sides are cut off.

AceTKK · « **Reply #44 on:** April 04, 2003, 12:32:44 am »

Is that ATi's official response? If they recognize that this is a common problem with T.V.s why wouldn't they compensate for it?

El Pato, were you able to finally get the color working?

-Ace-

El Pato · « **Reply #45 on:** April 04, 2003, 09:37:16 am »

No, AceTKK, I haven't actually tried yet. I will try this weekend. But, I am pretty confident given Wienerdog's instructions that I will be able to get color.

Wienerdog, I don't doubt you one bit that the component is better. When I compared the two on a projector, it was pretty substantial. Of course, that was on a $3k projector, and I should be able to see the difference. I even noticed a difference in the black and white on the TV. But, what on earth are you doing to compensate for the overscan problem? Are you just dealing with it, or are you configuring a different resolution via command-line in MAME? For me, the overscan was so annoying, even in black and white, I did not even want to think about how I was going to handle it for all the different games I was wanting to play. Just wondering.

BTW, those screen shots look pretty good .... make me jealous (except for the overscan part).

Wienerdog · « **Reply #46 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:41:51 pm »

I haven't been playing. I only have one computer and since you have to reboot into component, I haven't been connecting to my TV. I am actually surprised by how good the SVideo looks. With all the SVideo bashing, I figured it would be very good. I was happy enough with SVideo to wonder if it is worth buying the $45 adapter and the expensive component cable instead of using svideo. Obviously I need to do some more "testing" to get a better feel of the differences.

I don't know what to do about the overscan. I haven't looked into running at a different resolution in Mame, but that may the be the only answer. ATI was supposed to have addressed the overscan in the new compile of Catalyst, so I need to looking into that too. I may have overlooked some ATI settings that might solve the problem.

Pooman2084 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:55:08 am »

I must chip in my 2 pence (or cents I guess!) here.

Component Video is the best possible connection for almost all kinds of displays IMO. I have a monster of a DVD player and the output on my Plasma screen is head and shoulders above that of S-video. For instance when i pause a DVD and compare the 2 outputs, component show so much more background detail it takes the piss. S-Video provides a good picture, don't get me wrong, but in the UK we are spoilt with genuine RGB through Scart leads for almost all electrical items. S just doesn't cut the mustard compared with RGB, or even better component. I suppose S might provide a smoother picture on older games as component can look quite blocky on low res games.

Don't forget the Component offers progressive scan modes for those that can use them. I've found that prog scan virtually eliminates 'jaggies' in modern games.

I assume the same will apply with regular pc monitors (as essentially the Plasma is a monitor).

If you can afford it, go component - you won't regret it.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #48 on:** April 16, 2003, 01:41:34 am »

Okay, forget what I said about the expensive component cable. I do think it is worth it to go with component, if I can get the overscan issue worked out.

I'm not sure what parameters I need to set in mame to get the resolution to work out right, or if that could even help. To summarize, I still have a problem with only seeing part of the screen on the TV (the top and bottom of Galaga are cut off, etc).

tom61 · « **Reply #49 on:** April 16, 2003, 05:43:30 pm »

Quote

I'm not sure what parameters I need to set in mame to get the resolution to work out right, or if that could even help. To summarize, I still have a problem with only seeing part of the screen on the TV (the top and bottom of Galaga are cut off, etc).

Does it work well with horizontal games? There's the same problem with arcade monitors in with vertical games. Arcade monitors basically use 480i. Are you able to set which component output is used? If your TV can take progressive, switching to 480p should help greatly.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #50 on:** April 17, 2003, 01:39:26 am »

It's possible that I don't understand how to change the settings, but I am not having any luck. I can't seem to improve the overscan to acceptable levels. Is anyone else working on this?

AceTKK · « **Reply #51 on:** April 17, 2003, 03:33:59 am »

Wienerdog, have you tried the avs forums? www.avsforum.com try asking in the htpc forum.

-Ace-

Wienerdog · « **Reply #52 on:** April 18, 2003, 03:09:26 pm »

I was told that I should set up a custom resolution in Powerstrip. I am trying to figure out the software, which is a pain in the butt. I don't know what I should be modifying, so I keep messing up my signal. Hopefully I can get it straightened out tonight.

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #53 on:** April 18, 2003, 10:00:27 pm »

Quote from: Wienerdog on April 17, 2003, 01:39:26 am

Is anyone else working on this?

To be honest, I'm waiting to see if you can get it working before I think about buying a 7500 and the adapter.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #54 on:** April 19, 2003, 12:38:57 am »

Quote from: Sasquatch! on April 18, 2003, 10:00:27 pm

To be honest, I'm waiting to see if you can get it working before I think about buying a 7500 and the adapter.

No problem, I'll get it working...

I know you meant 8500 and the adapter, right?

ATI HDTV Adapter FAQ
Q2: What graphics cards does the HDTV Component Video Adapter support?

A2: ATI's HDTV Component Video Adapter supports RADEON

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #55 on:** April 19, 2003, 01:36:18 am »

Quote from: Wienerdog on April 19, 2003, 12:38:57 am

I know you meant 8500 and the adapter, right?

Whoop. Indeed I did.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #56 on:** April 25, 2003, 04:35:34 pm »

Rough waters ahead...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252496

Ledbetter · « **Reply #57 on:** April 26, 2003, 09:30:47 pm »

Doesn't look to promising.

Just throwing out an idea, don't even know if its possible....

The latest mame lets you create your own in-game bezels- Is it possible to create a bezel the size of the portion of your screen that is overscanned? So in reality, the bezel would be hidden by the overscan and you would'nt have any of your game cut off.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #58 on:** April 27, 2003, 12:16:22 am »

What I am hearing from the AV guys is that a standard TV cannot support any resolution above 640x480. When it is displaying 800x600 with SVideo, the video card is really sending a modified signal to the TV. The signal probably has the resolution of 640x480, but it is displaying the full height and width of 800x600 pixels.

I think the problem is that the current Catalyst drivers do not support this same feature for the Component output. I'm also wondering if the resolution would really be an improvement over S-Video. I know 640x480 Component looks better than 640x480 S-Video, so I would imagine the same would hold true for higher resolutions, if the drivers ever supported.

Oh, back to the original question. I think that the bezel feature probably involves a custom resolution or something that would push the signal over 640x480, which would not work.

jakeblues9 · « **Reply #59 on:** June 21, 2003, 10:25:22 pm »

If i may ask a question of all you guys
how does the tv display the windows desktop with s video
is it clear or blurry or unreadable altogether

can someone post some pics of the desktop
screens

any help would be greatly appreciated

Generic Eric · « **Reply #60 on:** June 22, 2003, 03:01:05 am »

As mentioned, http://www.avsforum.com/ is a good place to do research on this topic.

Another site I didn't see mentioned in this thread was Rage3d.com
The have a good forum there. Even if you don't have an ati card, you can still learn lots of stuff there. I have an ATI AIW Radeon, but haven't hooked it up to my pc as of yet so the link above is all I can add.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #61 on:** June 25, 2003, 01:06:55 pm »

Quote from: jakeblues9 on June 21, 2003, 10:25:22 pm

If i may ask a question of all you guys
how does the tv display the windows desktop with s video
is it clear or blurry or unreadable altogether

Windows desktop is blurry but readable in my opinion.

jakeblues9 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 25, 2003, 09:29:49 pm »

thanks for the post answer
are any of you familiar with scan converters
they are supposed to clear up the pc screen when using a tv for a pc moniter...

SuckerFish · « **Reply #63 on:** November 25, 2003, 04:33:42 pm »

Has anyone been able to get this to work properly?

I plan on taking a look at it once i find a DVI component no one wants, or would sell to me

night · « **Reply #64 on:** November 26, 2003, 12:53:39 am »

newer cats have custom 'no overscan' resolutions.
like 640x432 i believe.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #65 on:** November 26, 2003, 01:28:42 am »

Quote from: night on November 26, 2003, 12:53:39 am

newer cats have custom 'no overscan' resolutions.
like 640x432 i believe.

Have you tried this or is this word of mouth? Is this a recent release (I assume by "cats", you mean catalyst)?

When I was working on this before, there was supposed to be improved resolutions which helped reduce the overscan issue. Is that what you are talking about? Those didn't help me out, as they were designed to reduce the overscan on an HDTV, not a standard resolution TV. I didn't see anything on the ATI site, but I hope you're right.

SuckerFish · « **Reply #66 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:56:29 am »

I'm trying to get the topic started again on this forum, maybe we can have an answer from someone who has played with the drievers

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2973877#post2973877

Feel free to join in the conversation, I'd love to have the component output and knock s-vid off its feet

night · « **Reply #67 on:** November 26, 2003, 01:57:54 pm »

look for nintari's guide on avs. in the HT computer forum

SuckerFish · « **Reply #68 on:** November 26, 2003, 02:23:43 pm »

On nintari's guide website, doesn't have source for 480I.

His FAQ says he never tried

Thx for the help on that one though

night · « **Reply #69 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:59:31 pm »

i was just referring to this :

"
ATI HDTV Adapter resolutions

Ok ATI was nice enough to include quite a few resolutions to use. You have your standard 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions....but then you have some odd ball ones out there...? Ones you most likely thought were a mistake but really aren't. There are three of these..640x432, 864x648 and 1776x1000. These are resolutions provided by ATI as "Optimized resolutions". What that means is they have no over-scan to them.
"

SuckerFish · « **Reply #70 on:** November 28, 2003, 12:11:17 pm »

there's a 480i rez that came standard in my Powerstrip that, when activated, provides only about 1% overscan on my set..... I believe it says (arcade) in it's name in the custom rez list....

Post from the other forum, can someone try this out?

Wienerdog · « **Reply #71 on:** December 05, 2003, 04:11:36 am »

That looks like it will work. VERY NICE. I can confirm that it is about 1% to 3% overscan. I'm sitting about 10 feet from my TV and have no problem reading everything on the screen. I played a Divx movie and it looks sharp. Sorry, I switched machines and don't have MAME running on this box

It's 3am here, so I don't think I'll get you any pictures of the screen tonight.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #72 on:** December 05, 2003, 04:27:41 am »

I've stayed up this late, what's another 45 minutes. Here is picture from my digital camera:

SuckerFish · « **Reply #73 on:** December 05, 2003, 07:53:45 am »

WOO HOO! WTG Wienerdog

looks like 2% overscan and you are not missing anything major (start menu button blue part of the flag is the cut off) but on the right side og the screen everything looks good?
Are you able to shift the screen right at all?

After 6 months do you think you'll switch to omponent in your cab now, do you really see a big difference in color and crispness towards text.
What rez looks best in youur option?

So many questions so little time

I hope the person I won the adapter on ebay shipped it already, can't wait to try it out.

Get some mame pics up if you get the chance

Wienerdog · « **Reply #74 on:** December 05, 2003, 10:38:34 am »

Quote from: SuckerFish on December 05, 2003, 07:53:45 am

looks like 2% overscan and you are not missing anything major (start menu button blue part of the flag is the cut off) but on the right side og the screen everything looks good?
Are you able to shift the screen right at all?

After 6 months do you think you'll switch to omponent in your cab now, do you really see a big difference in color and crispness towards text.
What rez looks best in youur option?

So many questions so little time
I hope the person I won the adapter on ebay shipped it already, can't wait to try it out.

Get some mame pics up if you get the chance

The right side of the screen looks pretty good, there is probably a software way to shift the screen to the right. I know there is one, I'm just not positive it is available when you are running from component.

A little background for anyone joining us now, these ATI cards DETECT the component doggle when the computer is booting up. It then outputs the component signal. If you want to change back to a monitor, you need to reboot again without the doggle.

I'll try to get some comparison stuff up this weekend, but I'm not sure if I'll have time. I'll decide at that point if I'll use component. Judging by the quality of the video playback, I'll be using component.

SuckerFish · « **Reply #75 on:** December 05, 2003, 10:49:34 am »

Awesome I look forward to the comparison!
Windows won't let you shift the component signal with ati drivers, but powerstrip might be able to overrule them. In the custom rez menu I saw arrows making it look like you can shift the image, but again on component signal i don't know

What sucks is the dongle reboot to change vid card source, I'll be using the pc for home theatre and will be changing the signal alwats bettween ( projector, mame, and xbox ps2 on cab)

Looking forward to it!

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #76 on:** December 05, 2003, 01:18:30 pm »

Wow, this thead lives!

Thanks for the info and pics, WD!

SuckerFish · « **Reply #77 on:** December 07, 2003, 10:51:30 am »

I got my adapter yesterday and just setup the component!

I cannot stress how INSANELY AWESOME this looks. Never would I have though it would be this good, its worth 200 US to me this adpater if Id have to buy it!

I have my desktop running in 640X432 16bit color .05% overscan! Tell mame to run games in that rez you see no difference since the rez compensates for overscan.

In powerstrip, custom timings you can shift the page left and right without changing the scan frequencies.

Impossible to take good pics, I get too many waves on the screen when taking a pic.
Anyone have suggestions on how to take good pics of tv image?

Anyhow, if I was all of you i would change whatever video card you have now get an 8500 plus adapter and NEVER look back. THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!

NEVER USING S-VIDEO EVER!!!

Todd H · « **Reply #78 on:** December 07, 2003, 02:54:15 pm »

This is an interesting thread. I have a JVC 27D201 set that not only remembers what input was used before the power down, but also automatically powers up after plugging back in AND has a set of component inputs. Maybe it's time to buy a plasma and build a cabinet around the JVC. Can't wait to hear some more impressions of this setup as well as more screenshots (hint hint!).

SuckerFish · « **Reply #79 on:** December 07, 2003, 04:35:54 pm »

FYI

Digital cam pics of this will not do justice. Can't get good ones.
You have to see it in person to really appriciate it!


Main	Restorations	Software	Audio/Jukebox/MP3	Everything Else	Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements	Monitor/Video	GroovyMAME	Merit/JVL Touchscreen	Meet Up	Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing	Woodworking	Software Support Forums	Consoles	Project Arcade	Reviews
Automated Projects	Artwork	Frontend Support Forums	Pinball	Forum Discussion	Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board	controls.dat	Linux	Miscellaneous Arcade	Wiki Discussion	Old Archives
Lightguns	Arcade1Up	Try the site in https mode		Site News


Unread posts \| New Replies \| Recent posts \| Rules \| Chatroom \| Wiki \| File Repository \| RSS \| Submit news