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Author Topic: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay  (Read 9097 times)

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GGKoul

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2005, 12:12:38 pm »
Uh, actually, it doesn't even come with a computer. Hence, can't be too illegal. Also appears the cabinet was converted. The only joke is the "original Street Fighter 2 cabinet" line.
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2005, 01:05:06 pm »
"This arcade has all mame roms, chd's, art, cab, ect. with easy arcade front end, you scroll up and down the list to select the game you want while you listen to your favorite MP3's, you only have to use the joysticks and buttons to use the menu. "

I think it comes with a computer... not only that but advertises that it comes with all roms.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2005, 01:49:42 pm »
it says right in the auction that it doesnt come with a computer
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2005, 01:51:10 pm »
I think he is taking the computer out of it but is going to give the buyer CD's/DVDs with the ROMs on along with the ArcadeVGA. Just my guess.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2005, 02:25:56 pm »
Actually what disgusts me about that listing is the price. The guy expects at least 2 grand for a box that may or may not come with software. This machine is worth $400 at the most, depending on what comes in it.

There's alot to be wary of with this listing:

 - Zero-feedback seller.

 - Shots of the front end running, yet you're not getting a PC so, what ARE you getting?

 - He says that he "Gutted" the cab and converted it to MAME, then later in the listing he says  "This cabinet still contains all the original machines working parts perfectly preserved. You could reset this machine back to its original game state in less than 5 mins" So which is it?

 - MAME does not support 5000 games

 - It does not come with a PC, so why advertise it as capable of playing 5000 games? Why mention the front end and roms, etc if it does not come with those? Saying it's "capable" of this or that is like me selling a pile of lumber for $100k and claiming it could potentially be a $100k house.

 
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2005, 02:28:03 pm »
"This arcade has all mame roms, chd's, art, cab, ect. with easy arcade front end, you scroll up and down the list to select the game you want while you listen to your favorite MP3's, you only have to use the joysticks and buttons to use the menu. "

That line is the only thing making the auction illegal.  Idiot :)
If he gets rid of that he would be fine.

But I'd still not pay $2000 for a cabinet that doesn't have a computer.

SirPoonga

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2005, 02:33:45 pm »
- Shots of the front end running, yet you're not getting a PC so, what ARE you getting?
Well, people do that on alot of normal arcade auctions just to show the parts work.  I see tha twith alot of PCB sales, monitor isn't included, just shows that it works.

Quote
- He says that he "Gutted" the cab and converted it to MAME, then later in the listing he says  "This cabinet still contains all the original machines working parts perfectly preserved. You could reset this machine back to its original game state in less than 5 mins" So which is it?
You can do that even if it is gutted.  The parts don't hvae to be IN the cabinet, just part of the auction.

Quote
- MAME does not support 5000 games
actually, mame does.  However, it doesn't say 5000 mame roms, it's says it can play 5000 games, which is possible.  Don't mistake this as alot of people do.

Quote
- It does not come with a PC, so why advertise it as capable of playing 5000 games? Why mention the front end and roms, etc if it does not come with those? Saying it's "capable" of this or that is like me selling a pile of lumber for $100k and claiming it could potentially be a $100k house.
It's called marketting.


I am not defending this dude, I think it sucks too.  But people misread and interpet things incorrectly quite often.
If you took out about the part about supplying roms and got rid of the control panel graphics then there would be nothing illegal about the auction.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 02:36:02 pm by SirPoonga »

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2005, 02:43:19 pm »
Quote
i guted it

lol...   what a 'tard.  At least use spell check before you post garbage.  :police:

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2005, 03:47:40 pm »
SirPoonga: Are you really trying to say this guy is not in any way shape or form trying to mislead people? Come on! He's trying to sell $200 to $400 worth of used parts and using "marketing" to try and get over $2000 for it.

I guess every used arcade game on Ebay should start advertising the "potential" to play 5000 games because in theory, every arcade cab could be converted to MAME.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 11:30:18 am by RayB »
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2005, 04:08:14 pm »
I find that a bit odd--we all know that with a conversion cab--the time is in the clean up (of the old cab) and the setup of the PC--configuring resolutions, etc--since he has done neither I find the price to be a bit steep as well.  I'm not going to comment on the whole ROM thing (be like me the kettle calling the pot (him) black) Although he shouldn't have said as much in his listing...
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2005, 04:54:21 pm »
SirPoonga: Are you really trying to say this guy is not in any way shape or form trying to mislead people? Come on! He's trying to sell $200 to $400 worth of used parts and using "marketing" to try and get over $2000cdn for it.

I guess every used arcade game on Ebay should start advertising the "potential" to play 5000 games because in theory, every arcade cab could be converted to MAME.
Again, a misinterpretation.  First off, I said I am not trying to defend the guy, just pointed out what you said is not correct and t hat if this guy reworded his auction it would be a legit auction.
No, I did not say the guy isn't trying to mislead.  I'm just saying he is using marketting tactics to try and sell his cabinet.  Like you said, he is using marketting to try and sell $400 worth of cabinet for over $2000.  Like I said, I wouldn't pay $2000 for a cabinet if it didn't have a computer in it.  But on this forum we are well informed on how much something like this actually costs.

But that is what marketting is about.  There's a joke in the reader's digest that goes something like this. My company holds an annual softball game with the marketting team vs the engineering team.  Usually the engineering team wins.  This year was no different.  In the next company newsletter there as a section about the softball game written by marketting.  It said "Marketting had a great softball season, they only lost one game.  The engineers had a horrible season, only winning one game."

As a smart consumer hopefully you can see past marketting ploys, obviously, like many of you here.

Because you know what mame is you assume the 5000 he is talking about is mame games, which is probably right in this case.  But he doesn't say 5000 mame roms, he says 5000 games.  This is entirely possible, even if he wasn't smart enough to realize the wording allows that.  I run about 300 games on my cabinet, all legal.  Thank you shareware arcade games, see the sticky thread in software forum for cool computer titles that work in an arcade cabinet settings.

Since a normal arcade cabinet isn't intended for emulation saying it can play thousands of games is not a good marketting tactic.  Here, it is the difference in the intended consumer.

Other products do the same thing.  Think of the first apple ipod.  How many people have 20 gigs worth of legal mp3s?  My collection of legal mp3s only takes up about 10gig.  The ipod nano 4gig is enough for me to put my favorite CDs onto.  So the marketting point that the 20gig ipod can hold tens of thousands of songs is possible, but not probable.  It is probable, like with this cabinet, that one will put 20 gigs worth of illegal mp3s on it.  But no one seems to complain too much about that, other than the riaa.  But here, when someone claims a cabinet can play thousands of games we complain, when it is possible, but not probable.

Again, I am not defending him, I was just correcting what you said.  Like you said mame does not support 5000 games.  Yes, it does.  However, only about 2/3rds of it is playable, about 1/3rd playable by canadians and americans.  But you didn't say playable, you said supported.  Also you can have a gutted cabinet and have the parts preserved so you can get it back to original in 5 minutes.

If I was selling my cabinet on ebay I would say it can play thousands of games, because it can and makes it look good.  I wouldn't mention mame or supply roms like this idiot though.  I would mention, because it is a good marketting ploy, that the games that can be played can be actual arcade games (from starroms) or arcade like shareware games and provide examples (like Gish).  that would be good martketting because hopefully it would show the consumer that the cabinet can be used for more than just emulation, which is actually what makes a PC cabinet fun since there are alot more legal software titles that are cab friendly than legal arcade games.


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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2005, 06:03:02 pm »
If he even gets a bid at that price, I'll be buying a whack of fighter cabinets at the next Starburst auction (typically C$125-C$200) and ordering a bunch of ArcadeVGA boards and JPacs .... sell 3 of those at his prices and I can get a Major Havoc!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2005, 09:14:35 pm »

OK you know what, I understand where you're coming from. Companies like cell phones advertise "free phones" and then the catch is you have to sign up. There are laws in place that make them include disclaimers in all materials and ads that promote such claims. IE a * next to the sentence and then small print telling the exact details.

You are saying that this guy is stating that there is no PC, etc, etc and therefor it's just "marketing". I'll give you that.

But the difference here, and hence why this guy makes me sick, is that first of all I truly believe he has the intent to mislead. He's counting on that one sucker to buy it with the impression that when they get it home and turn it on it will instantly be working with 5000 games. It's kind of like those people who sold empty Xbox boxes using listings that at first glance gave the impression that a full console was being sold. Plenty of people got suckered on those auctions.

Secondly, unlike a cell phone company, where you will be told the "catch" before you can get your free phone, this guy's buyer will be bound to the "Ebay contract". The buyer will feel ripped off when he finds out the truth. He will give the seller a negative. The seller will claim innocence. Or if he catches on sooner, he will back out of the auction and then HE risks getting a negative just for coming to his senses. It's not right.
 :(

PS: His listing does say though "This arcade has all mame roms, chd's, art, cab, ect. with easy arcade front end, you scroll up and down the list to select the game you want while you listen to your favorite MP3's, you only have to use the joysticks and buttons to use the menu."  How do you explain that????
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 09:16:54 pm by RayB »
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2005, 10:38:47 pm »
www.mamedev.com has a form to fill out for reporting auctions.  Include the link, seller id, and auction #.

(no I didn't report it... I'm lazy tonight)

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2005, 01:31:59 am »
Wow, first time I've seen my Mamewah skin come up on an ebay auction!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2005, 02:46:27 am »
Wow, first time I've seen my Mamewah skin come up on an ebay auction!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2005, 03:37:42 pm »
PS: His listing does say though "This arcade has all mame roms, chd's, art, cab, ect. with easy arcade front end, you scroll up and down the list to select the game you want while you listen to your favorite MP3's, you only have to use the joysticks and buttons to use the menu."  How do you explain that????

I already covered that :)

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2005, 10:24:31 am »
Well at least no one has bid yet.
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2005, 01:33:38 am »
anyopne reported it yet?
Slow In Fast Out

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2005, 10:48:38 am »
I just did, there isn't much time left so I don't know if they'll catch it before it ends.  With all the info they should be able to go back and see it.

Here's how I always do it:

Go to http://mamedev.com
On the left at the bottom is a link "Contact MAMEDev " - http://mamedev.com/contact.html
In the drop down box, switch to "Report Abuse of MAME trademark"
Fill in your info, put "ebay violation" in the subject line
In the message box, put the link, auction title, Seller id, item number, and qoute text you think violates the terms of use.  That way they can just read your message and determine if they need to act or not.

Don't expect a reply.  You won't get one.

EXAMPLE:
Mame Arcade 5000 Games w/Jamma & ArcadeVGA
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mame-Arcade-5000-Games-w-Jamma-ArcadeVGA_W0QQitemZ6218019729QQcategoryZ13716QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Item number: 6218019729
Seller information
 mkaczanowski
 
"This arcade has all mame roms, chd's, art, cab, ect. with easy arcade front end, you scroll up and down the list to select the game you want while you listen to your favorite MP3's, you only have to use the joysticks and buttons to use the menu."

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2005, 09:23:04 pm »
OMG!!!  People are actually bidding on that MAME(tm) machine!!!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2005, 09:37:03 pm »
This auction has officially reached "car wreck" status. As if the opening bid was not stupid enough, he actually has a reserve above and beyond that ridiculous price!!!!!
NO MORE!!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2005, 09:45:57 pm »
OMG!!!  People are actually bidding on that MAME(tm) machine!!!

I guess it is time to pump out a bunch JPac/ArcadeVGA-in-cheap-fighter-cabs ... Major Havoc, here I come !!!

Now, what are the odds that he is actually going to get paid ?

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2005, 12:22:32 am »
This auction has officially reached "car wreck" status. As if the opening bid was not stupid enough, he actually has a reserve above and beyond that ridiculous price!!!!!


I agree, that guy is on crack!
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2005, 06:33:34 am »
I think that the most humorous thing about this auction is.... although he sounds like a tard, words his listing like a tard, and spells like a tard.  He did a tremendous job of meticulously adding and deleting words to create "the impression" of an incredible machine.  I think the bidding backs that up!  What a hunk of phlegm.  If I had listed a cabinet starting at a dollar, it would probably end at $2.52 WITH a computer in it.  Go figure!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2005, 06:53:30 am »
I would like a little input on this listing, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6210004588&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:UK:1

Yes it was mine, no it didnt sell via ebay (it sold privately) and yes I did remove the roms from it when it sold.

the way I see it on this one the value was in the cabinet / computer not mame.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2005, 07:13:57 am »
Damn--I just sold my Neo geo styled mame cab for 1000 bux to a guy in toronto and thought that was a fair price--I should have charged more given that people are willing to pay 2200 for that steaming load--19" monitor, no computer--what the hell?  Life is so unfair  :(
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 07:15:29 am by menace »
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2005, 11:26:38 am »
There was only 1 guy really bidding. Maybe a shill, maybe not. Contact him, now that you know how much he is willing to pay. He'd probably pay $4k for one with ROTATING CONTROL PANEL! ;-)
NO MORE!!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2005, 01:56:02 pm »
i could never sell my baby :D twin guns, twin 360 wheels, flip down pedals, beer holders--its a homer simpson dream arcade machine!!!
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2005, 05:58:47 pm »
That poor guy, the bidding is up to $2225 and still has not met his reserve!

....and.....ummmm.....I think I'm gonna place a particular item of mine on ebay now....

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2005, 10:19:11 pm »
Anyone report the new auction?

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2005, 10:32:41 pm »
Anyone report the new auction?

Yup ... normally I would leave it to somebody else, but this guy with his $2000+ reserve ....

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2005, 06:38:15 pm »
OMG!!!  People are actually bidding on that MAME(tm) machine!!!

I don't know why you people are so surprised.  You could probably sell a moldy orange on ebay for $500:

http://pspwned.ytmnd.com

Thats funny!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2005, 07:22:43 pm »
No crap, don't put your kids in a real fridge.
-- Chad Tower

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2005, 02:30:36 am »
I suggest you re-check that auction listing now.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 07:39:20 am by SUB ZERO »

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2005, 07:44:28 am »
Hopefully, this puts an end to this thread.  I personally found what was going on in this particular thread a little distasteful by linking to someone elses auction listing and trashing it.

How would you like it if someone on another forum somewhere linked to one of your auction listings and trash the hell out of it and potentially knock you out of a sale?

Next time, I suggest going straight to the source instead of sneaky around behind someones back in a forum thread thrashing their auction and reporting them.

To be fair, this was not just an auction with a simple mislisting (as you and the seller seem to maintain) ... the description was definitely (I would say purposefully) misleading and in complete violation of the use of the MAME trademark AND this was an auction where somebody was representing a cabinet worth <$500 as being worth $2000+.

I, for one, certainly found THAT more distasteful than anything in this thread.

It is absolutely the seller's right to do that in his own auction.

It is also my right to dispute and mock that notion in threads here.

I doubt that anybody reading these forums was a potential bidder and, IF THEY WERE, I am glad that this thread may have served to educate them and maybe keep them from spending $2500 toreceive only $500 of value.

Save your high-horse rantings for defending reasonable auctions against unreasonable attack ... right now you are defending those who would gouge the neophyte and THAT is distasteful to me.

Cheers.
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2005, 09:45:17 am »
I suggest you re-check that auction listing now.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2005, 02:01:04 pm »
As to why ... I'll never know since a computer nor any ROM CDs were included in the original auction listing.
NO MORE!!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2005, 02:17:45 am »
You've got to be kidding me ...

I SAID that he had the right to do what he wanted with the asking price ... and I have the right to dispute that value in a thread here (where, exactly, did you come up with "doesn't give anyone the right" to post their opinions ?)

In order to sue for 'Internet libel'  ???, the seller would have to show that the statements were false and that they caused him harm. Show me where I, or anybody else, has done that. And then have good luck showing damages.

Further, since the seller would be bringing suit in Ontario, he would have to be very specific and certain of the above as the courts can assign HIM costs and fines for bringing a frivilous suit.

Then, after chastising me for bitching about price in a public forum, you do exactly that with CustomArcades !?!

Pot, kettle, black.

Cheers.



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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2005, 03:41:03 am »
Nevermind ... I can see this is pointless.

You can't tell the different between a question and a statement ... nor do you know what libel is.

I suggest you look up defamation and what that encompasses since you don't have a clue.

Have a nice day.

You've got to be kidding me ...

I SAID that he had the right to do what he wanted with the asking price ... and I have the right to dispute that value in a thread here (where, exactly, did you come up with "doesn't give anyone the right" to post their opinions ?)

In order to sue for 'Internet libel'

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2005, 07:13:47 am »
Nevermind ... I can see this is pointless.

You can't tell the different between a question and a statement ... nor do you know what libel is.

I suggest you look up defamation and what that encompasses since you don't have a clue.

Have a nice day.

OK ...

Quote
In many, though not all, legal systems, factual statements must be false to be defamatory. Proving statements to be true is often the best defense against a prosecution for libel. Statements of opinion which cannot be proven true or false will likely need to apply some other kind of defense.

In some systems, however, truth alone is not a defense. It is also necessary in these cases to show that there is a well founded public interest in the specific information being widely known, and this may be the case even for public figures.

Almost all legal systems, including those of the United States, Scotland, and England and Wales, require in some situations that the subject of the communication prove, in a civil court, that the defendant made the statement with "malice", meaning either believing it was false or with "reckless disregard" for whether it was false.

or

Quote
In most states, public officials or figures as plaintiffs are required to prove negligence or actual malice on the part of the publisher. To prove actual malice, a person needs to show that at the time of publication or broadcast, those responsible for the story either knew it was not true or had a reckless disregarded for the truth.

I'm not trying to convince you to like the fact that I wrote things about the auction as THAT would be pointless -- we can agree to disagree there.

Your ranting about legal risks and specifically about what rights we have are what I would argue about. I trust that the mods or Saint himself would step in and send this entire thread to PostHell if we really were as far out of line as you pretend.

Can you tell me at which point I didn't have a clue ?

Wait --- didn't that comment defame me ? [Hint: no it didn't]

Cheers.



« Last Edit: October 28, 2005, 07:21:18 am by CheffoJeffo »
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2005, 07:32:10 am »
I notice that SUBZERO unregistered himelf, apparently a few minutes after my last posting ... c'mon, it was ONE thread, and a fairly tame one at that. It certainly isn't representative of normal activity, at least in this part of the forums.

Don't go just because this thread doesn't sit right with you.

I wonder what would have happened if DK or CT had decided to venture outside of EE and argue against him ...

Cheers.

EDIT: Since I didn't say it in this post: I am asking you to stay ... plonk me if you must (although occasionally I post useful stuff), but stay.

EDIT2: I just noticed that, before leaving, SUBZERO deleted the lengthy diatribe that my last posts were in response to, and in which he replied to RayB as well. So, there may be a non-sequitur for those trying to follow the latter portion of this thread. Maybe I can find a copy in my cache.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2005, 07:53:32 am by CheffoJeffo »
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2005, 08:48:41 am »
I wonder if this SubZero was the same subzero who was banned for being a huge tool... certainly seems like a possibility....
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2005, 10:43:13 am »
I wonder if this SubZero was the same subzero who was banned for being a huge tool... certainly seems like a possibility....

It would be quite a coincidence if it were NOT the same guy.
NO MORE!!

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2005, 11:30:55 am »
I think the old SubZero said he was in his early twenties and this guy's profile said he was 30 ... although there certainly are some parallels, only this guy provided less entertainment value.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2005, 11:47:24 am »
The old Subzero would not have given in this early.  It would have gone on and on and on.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2005, 12:35:16 pm »
The old Subzero would not have given in this early.  It would have gone on and on and on.

this is the only reason I question it.

He'd be rambling on and on and on.....
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2005, 02:35:33 pm »
I think the old SubZero said he was in his early twenties and this guy's profile said he was 30 ...

does that mean Saint is really 3?

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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2005, 03:21:03 pm »
I think the old SubZero said he was in his early twenties and this guy's profile said he was 30 ...

does that mean Saint is really 3?

???
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Re: FA: Another "LAME" MAME Machine on ebay
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2005, 11:38:15 pm »
I think the old SubZero said he was in his early twenties and this guy's profile said he was 30 ...

does that mean Saint is really 3?

???

If you look at Saint's profile his age is listed as 3