Give me input on my 4-player control panel

[wallyworld]

So here's the layout I think I've decided on for my 4-player control panel, and I would love some input--particularly on usability (reachability/comfortability re: control placement) and what I'll need wiring-wise.

[Bones]

Can I set all these controls up with an IPac4?

IPAC4 has 56 inputs. If you count all your switches/buttons (including 4 for each joystick and excluding the 49 way), and the answer is <56 then yes, you can use an IPAC4.
*You don't need dedicated inputs for each joystick as P1 8way & P1 4way can share the same inputs.

Provided I can somehow support the number of buttons already here, should I have more than 3 admin buttons (at the top center of panel)? Trackball buttons count, too, right?

You need to decide exactly what you want to achieve. Playing around with the software should give you a feel for the admin buttons you think best suits your requirements. There is no right or wrong answer to this, you are creating a frankenpanel so it is never going to look like something original from the arcade anyway so you need think "practical".

Are the buttons too close to the spinner?  I'm really trying to squeeze the controls into ideal positions, while still allowing for the Defender setup as Mark has done.

If you go ahead with this it will take a great deal of financial outlay and effort. I wouldn't trust anyones opinion here on a question like that. Make it out of cardboard and test it yourself.


I suggest you do a lot of searching and reading through this forum, the amount of info here is staggering. It's easy to create the monster of all CP's but this won't necessarily make it better or more fun to play.

My personnel opinion is there is just way too much happenning here and considering the enormous CP size, P3 & P4 positions look uncomfortable with those big square edges sticking out. Maybe your should thinking about a rotating CP if you really have your heart set on this many controls.

Please realise, I am not trying to shoot you down and I do wish you good luck with your design.

[teef two]

Not sure why you've gone with two trackballs there. I know you want two player marble madness but that smaller trackball is going to be awkward to use having to lean across player one's joystick.

Also the 3 inch trackball looks too close to the P360 on it's right. You might find you keep hitting that.

The number of buttons there looks way too many and not set out well for player 3 and 4.

It's a matter of taste but that panel has far too much going on for my liking. Needs to be a simpler design.

[KungFuJoe]

Just like you, I absolutely pulled my hair out trying to come up with a CP design.  Being a HUGE classic gaming fan, I didn't want to miss out on a single game, so I wanted to have every type of control available.  After making and trashing frankenpanel design after design, I finally decided to go modular.  There is NO way you're going to get everything you want on a single cp without huge sacrifices.  Plus another factor is control confusion...how to know which control or which joystick to use for which game will confuse yourself and others who use the panel.  If you don't want to go modular, then at least make 2 control panels that you can swap out.  It will require extra work, but think about all the work you're going to be putting into this cabinet overall...and the extra work will be small in comparison.

[markrvp]

Hey Wallyworld:

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm posting a comparison of my panel and yours.  You've got more room to play with, so you may want to move a few things.  If you are not going to angle off the corners at players 3 & 4 then you may want to bring those joysticks down so that they are all in line.

A question and a couple of initial thoughts:

- What are buttons 46 & 47?
- I would eliminate buttons 51 & 52.  You only need two mouse buttons which can be placed at buttons 31 & 33 (and then mapped accordingly for Defender & Stargate).
- The 49-way is for a Trigger Stick, right?  I would move it a couple inches to the right to give you better clearance for the Defender buttons (I'm speaking from experience).
- The second trackball is throwing me right now.  I'm going to play with couple of things and I'll post later with my thoughts.

[wallyworld]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

[SirPoonga]

Hmmmm, a bunch of questions

But first, you can "double up" buttons to save on inputs.  But we'll get back to that later.

Why do you have a dedicated 49way AND a dedicated 4way?  Why not have player 1 (I assume joystick 2) the 49way since the gpwiz49 can be put into several different modes?

Can you explain what buttons are:
31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 51, 52

"My primary intention with this joystick was to use it to play Star Wars, Paperboy, and maybe 720 and Tron if possible."

You'd really want an analog triggerstick for those then.  Well, there is no good way to do 720 except with a spinner, which then it still sucks.

Also, will it suck to reach over a joystick to get at the 2nd tball?


"For example, are the buttons that are connected with the trackball for trackball use only? "

For buttons you basically have three ways to input them into the computer - keyboard, mouse, gamepad.   The Ipac would be keyboard inputs, the gpwiz49 would be gamepad inputs, and whatever interface you use for the tballs will be mouse.
That said, buttons used for mame can be any or those.  So if you could map mouse button 1 to player 1 button 1 input in mame. 
Since you will have a ipac4 AND gpwiz you have tons of inputs.

However, let's assume you want to use keyboard inputs where possible.  Depending on what the buttons around the spinner are for (IE, not the mouse butotn ones) then you could wire them in parallel with with another button.  For example, you could wire butotn 34 to the same input on the ipac as button 7 as I am betting those are both going to be player 1 button 1 in mame?

[markrvp]

Sir P:

Can you explain what buttons are:
31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 51, 52

51 & 52 are dedicated Mouse Left & Right (which I believe should be eliminated from the layout).

31, 34, 35, 36, 37 are DEFENDER layout buttons.  On my CP they are wired to the same inputs as P1 buttons 1-5 (but not in that order).  They also can be used with the 4-way joystick to play Asteroids.

[SirPoonga]

oh duh, I just reread the defender part
Then modify one of my comments to say
Wht not have player 1's joy the 49way (and keep the 4way for defender).

[DaveMMR]

Your panel mockup is what I envisioned for my panel when I first started this hobby. Over the course of two years I've whittled away most of what was unnecessary, unpractical, and redundant until I just threw everything away and went with a modular plan.

It seems to me that a panel with everything is just as good as a panel with absolutely nothing on it.  People looking at this space age piece of wood with buttons, doo-dads and levers will be too confused to make any attempt at enjoying it.  And if they did, the effort of swapping panels will instead be used explaining, in detail, what combination of buttons, joysticks, etc. should be used to play game A as opposed to the configuration used to play game B and so on.

When you want to fit everything onto one panel, you really need to start thinking about a more sophisticated way of getting the most out of the space.  Some people have done wonders with rotating mechanisms. 
Here's a link to one.  Though there are many others, this one seems the most modifiable to your specifications (i.e. your 1st and 4th joysticks lift up: http://rototron.info/.  Or why not go swappable panels?  Make one panel joysticks, another trackballs and spinners, or whatever.  You can even have it so only the center part swaps out, leaving the side joysticks behind for when you need to combine them.  Many have gone this route and documented the problems and solutions, so it's not as hard as it looks.

If you really don't want to swap panels, you have to definately make a few sacrifices.  I'd ditch the 49-way (unless you really, really love Sinistar, Bubbles, etc.) and all the extra buttons save for the 22 associated with the main 8-way joysticks (and a Defender layout is cool, but not practical when it's all the way in the back unlike the dedicated panel).  If you are truly building this for a target audience of kids and casual users, then I'd ditch anything that's not a joystick.  Seems to me that kids who didn't grow up with these games won't be as excited about controlling a game with the proper controls as those who did would.  The only exception would be a steering wheel - but that's not fitting on a control panel without a swapping/modular/rotating design anyway.  If you are getting more play out of it then them, I'd keep another panel around for yourself with dedicated controls and leave it out of play when the kids come to have a turn.  BTW: I still maintain that Marble Madness is more than enough reason to have two trackballs - but only when there's enough space for it to be comfortable.  And on the anal side of things, it'd be better to have them the same size and type (nip arguements in the butt over who has the "better" trackball just because he/she is beating the pants of his/her opponent).

The controls are THE MOST IMPORTANT part of any arcade cabinet - so take your time planning this out.  Good luck.