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Super Ultra-Mega Massive 49-way Review online at Retroblast!
Kremmit:
Also been some discussion about 4 way joysticks and Donkey Kong here.. Thought I'd add to that.
Donkey Kong did NOT use a Wico joystick, or a Happ, or anything else you see for sale now. DK, and every other Nintendo title upt through at least Super Mario and the Vs. games, used a Nintendo Joystick. They were also NOT leafswitch joysticks, they used microswitches (first vendor to go to microswitches?) and the microswitches had a little metal lever actuator, like the ones on a Happ Super. They also didn't use a grommet, they had a ball-pivot assembly similar to the one on Monroe joysticks. The Nintendo joystick base assembly was the same on 2, 4, and 8-way games, and just had a small restrictor plate that screwed on to the bottom of the joystick assembly to force the stick into 2, 4, or 8-way mode. These plates are frequently missing, leaving the stick with a perfectly round hole instead, but 8-way games *did* ship with a non-round restrictor.
Here's a pic of the 4-way restrictor- note that it's NOT the familiar diamond pattern you see on 4-ways today, but more of a clover pattern. This shape was why you would NEVER hit a diagonal on an original DK machine- the stick couldn't even get CLOSE to the corner. That's why RandyT's 80s gaming book mentions getting stuck on the ladders with relation to not climbing all the way up, but does NOT talk about getting stuck because you accidentally hit a diagonal.
Xiaou2:
Xiaou2, I post very rarely but have been lurking around here for close to five years. It's been my experience that personal comments like the quote from you above are certainly not a rarity in your posts. And yet you have the nerve to point a finger at RandyT and accuse him of personal attacks. Huh Roll Eyes
Well let me say this. Ive been here a lot longer than you. And have posted good helpfull information to others when I can. Ive had to defend myself and others from Bashing by overbearing posters and or posters with rotten attitudes, ego troubles, and much more. While you may not like to read it - look away. Ive learned not to take others abuse. I did that way too much when I was younger.
Dude, read your first post again. I don't think KenToad deserves that crap for just trying to add something to this community. If you don't like his contribution then be constructive in your criticism. Don't just dismiss it as "crap". You haven't even used the product in question.
It really wasnt my intention to have it come out that way. So I appologize for that.
However, I stand by my opinion that his review and views on the product are shallow and unenlightened. I believe he even stated it in his own review that he wasnt sure he was qualified to review the thing as he didnt have the others to compare with..ect.. Lets be real.. I wasnt trying to insult the guy at all. Im merely saying that there are others that would be more qualified to make a better review.
And another thing: Your opinion is just as valid as everyone elses. In other words, some of us enjoy our MAME time for reasons other than trying to set a world record high score. I'm into this hobby as a distraction, a way to relax and tie into some good memories from my youth.
Well, so am I. However, when I play a game like robotron, Id rather have fun getting to level 34 rahter than level 10 at best. If you do not care that you die easily cause your control stinks... thats your problem. Im not trying to set records either. I enjoy relaxing and playing, care less about score...ect. But I do care when my control is poor.. because that is not me making the mistake or causing the problem. There are many others who feel the same. In fact, Ive heard that a designer of robotron wouldnt touch a mame cab version of it. Im almost certain it was cause it had the wrong type of joysticks installed in it and he knew it right away.
So I'm willing to make a compromise on my controls. They don't need to be exact replicas and, for practical reasons, I would really love to find a one-stick-does-it-all soution. For that reason I've been waiting for the review that KenToad authored and, I for one, enjoyed it! Others have also.
Hey, thats your opinion. I have nothing wrong with that. However, its you that has a problem with my opinion it seems.
However.. I do get a little bent about useage of impropper controls. Because it can make a great game appear to be poor to the first time player of that game. Id rather see replicas of wico leafs that work perfectly for these games rahter than a do it all joy thats 'ok' at best. Ill drive my ferrari, and you can have your neon.
I appreciate your experiences and love of this hobby. But please don't presume to speak for me, especially when you're being rude.
Thanks.
Who says Im speaking for eveyone - esp you?
I can tell you that Ive been wrong in the past and people have schooled me. Im just spreading the wealth that was givin to me.. and the stuff that Ive learned and experienced on my own. Take it or leave it... thats what I will do.
Chris:
--- Quote from: Kremmit on July 02, 2005, 12:51:48 am ---Donkey Kong did NOT use a Wico joystick, or a Happ, or anything else you see for sale now.
--- End quote ---
RandyT:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 01, 2005, 07:29:45 pm --- If you are a gamer that dosnt care if they die often.. and do not want to reach record breaking scores and level increases.. then sure, this may be the joy and encoder for you.
--- End quote ---
You have had no exposure to this product whatsoever. Therefore you are not qualified to make such statements. End of story. I, however, watched someone who had never even touched this control combo before "kick a_s and take names" with every game he played. He was one of those high scoring gaming fanatics you refer to, not an "arcade politician" like yourself.
--- Quote ---However, if you are a true classic lover and know exactly how the game is supposed to be controlled and feels... this will only dissapoint.
--- End quote ---
This may surprise you, but advances in technology can actually provide better control mechanisms than were available 20+ years ago. Pardon me for saying so, but a little more objectivity on your part might be in order.
--- Quote ---I didnt realize the many benefits that a true wico leaf would provide.
--- End quote ---
Just like you now don't realize the benefits of the 49-ways with a GP-Wiz49 interface. Not everyone has the space (or desire) for a rotating monstrosity of a control panel. That doesn't mean they should suffer with a stick that only works well for a limited number of titles.
--- Quote ---(same for leaf joys. not needed to press them all the way to end of travel) They will register with a very light touch, and very little depth needed.
--- End quote ---
Well, at least there is one thing you would like about the 49-way setup, as these react pretty closely to your leaf-switch examples.
--- Quote --- One thing you notice here.. is that If you make any comment that is opposite to Randy... he will become an instant enemy. Turning very ugly with nasty attitude, heavy and commentary... and even personal attacks.
--- End quote ---
This statement is actually pretty comical. You make a personal attack, and then accuse me of making...ummm....personal attacks :D Most times I can back up my comments with factual references, something my "enemies" (by your definition) never seem to find necessary..
--- Quote --- I can not comment exactly on how this thing works, cause I do not have one to test.
--- End quote ---
(I think that was the "money shot" :) )
--- Quote ---However, I can based on my experiences predict that this is just a substandard replacment for the arcade accurate controls. Its a decent idea.. that just dosnt work out to control perfection.
--- End quote ---
"Control perfection" in someone's living room doesn't exist. It can't. Even your bizzaro control panel with what you seem to think has every control (some of which are not original because you made parts of them yourself) isn't like the real deal. True authenticity would dictate specific mounting angles and heights for each control as they existed on each machine. Otherwise, this would affect your interaction with them, not to mention button spacing and the like.
There were also how many? different leaf and/or microswitch joysticks out there, each with their own mechanical dynamic? Do you expect us to believe that you have (and use) the original stick for every one of the games you play?
Your concept of perfection seems to go only as far as you deem fit and you seem to think everyone else should take your version of it as the benchmark. I'm not sure who it is you think you are to make a determination like that, but I remain unimpressed. I'm sure others have their own thoughts on this as well.
--- Quote --- I do not have the right to comment? Come on.
--- End quote ---
Would it stop you if someone said you didn't? The interesting paradox I see is that you feel you have the right to demean the reviewer because they don't possess your "experience" with controls. Yet, you think it's perfectly acceptable to talk about the functionality of the 49-way with the GP-Wiz49 interface, even though you have absolutely no experience with them whatsoever. At least he actually uses the products he wrote about. Can you say that?
--- Quote ---And... my comments were not really agressive twords the product. They are more agressive on the quality of the 'Reviewer'.
--- End quote ---
Outside of the fact that this statement is a lie, neither deserves your "aggression"
--- Quote ---"IMO the review was based on one person's experience with the product(s) and was written to share that experience. Anyone can easily say yea or nay to a product or idea. But until that person actually uses that product, any idea or statement of fact about how it works is frankly idiotic."
--- Quote --- Actually its not.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
No, actually, it is. You are a user of technology. You have never invented nor engineered a controller that was in comercial use, nor have you really worked in the "industry" in a capacity that would qualify you to make such blind determinations. You have already been rightfully sluffed off by someone who had worked in the "industry", in previous threads where you made similar statements. Without actually knowing what was going through the minds of the designers, engineers, and business people at SEGA, NAMCO, STERN, UNIVERSAL, etc...., you are spewing nothing but uninformed conjecture, and the quality of conjecture is only as good as the intellect behind it.
Arcade "managers" were the most egregious violators of keeping original controls on games. When faced with the choice between a loss of income or installing a sub-par control into a machine, you know what the decision was. In fact, it would surprise me greatly if you yourself weren't guilty of such a thing at least once in your illustrious arcade manager career.
--- Quote ---The average joe isnt going to be able to tell you squat.. and his opinions may be also be seriously flawed. This could lead to people buying these devices and feeling quite upset at the results.
--- End quote ---
Actually, the "average joe" is precisely the person that should be doing this. He doesn't have all your "experience" to cloud his judgement. All he knows is whether things happen on the screen in direct response to his actions, precisely as they did for you the first time you played any of the "classics" you keep talking about.
--- Quote ---Not about the product. Thats personal opinion, but also from a very qualified source.
--- End quote ---
If you say so ::)
--- Quote ---But I am willing to accept they may have some good to them. However, I would not accept that untill I read a Real review... from a qualified unbiased reviewer.
I probably should have spoke up when Retroblast was asking for a reviewer. Just my time has been limited.
--- End quote ---
Hehe, yeah, wouldn't have been any bias there. Face it, it came off a lot better than you wanted it to, so you won't accept it. It won't matter if 50 people said the same thing (and from listening to the comments of my customers, they do), it won't be good enough for you.
BTW, don't be concerned about how I am perceived. Those are resources you could be using for your own good.
RandyT
Minwah:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 02, 2005, 05:00:10 am ---In fact, Ive heard that a designer of robotron wouldnt touch a mame cab version of it. Im almost certain it was cause it had the wrong type of joysticks installed in it and he knew it right away.
--- End quote ---
Or maybe due to the incorrect emulation speed at times making the game harder. I think this was improved lately but not sure by how much...
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