Driving Games

[mcleanjoel]

I don't see much talk about driving games so I'd like to get get some input.

Here are a couple things I'd like to hear about:

1. What driving games are your favorites in Mame?

2. What controls work well? (Oscar/Arkanoid/Tempest/Tron?)

3. Do you need to mess with the analog settings on most of the games to get good results?

[u_rebelscum]

I don't see much talk about driving games so I'd like to get get some input.

Here are a couple things I'd like to hear about:

1. What driving games are your favorites in Mame?

2. What controls work well? (Oscar/Arkanoid/Tempest/Tron?)

3. Do you need to mess with the analog settings on most of the games to get good results?

1. My favorites are the top down view racing games like Super Sprint and Offroad.  

2. These work best with a 360 degree steering wheel or spinner, but a trackball is almost as good.  Oscar and Arkanoid are better than tempest spinner for these games.  How is the tron spinner different from these in spinning?

3. Most likely, YES.  Luckily if you use the same controller, you can test one game and use it for getting the values for the others: for the best number multiple each game by the same factor and get pretty good settings.  But if you use different controllers, each controller might have its "best" settings.

• go to the game's analog settings and write down the default value
• test different vaules (probably higher than default)
• divide the final number by the number you wrote down.  This is the multipling factor
• For the other games, multiple the default value by the multipling factor.  This should be a good setting, but it doesn't always work for all games.

Other notes:

Spinner wheels were used in most of the old driving games, and they will work okay for most driving games.  Pole Position is another of these games.

Some old games and most newer games used a 270 degree wheel, such as SpyHunter, HardDrivin', and Crusin' games.  For these games, a PC steering wheel will feel more like the real thing, but an analog joystick will work just as well.  These hardware, however, wouldn't work very well on the old, 360 degree wheel games.

If you already changed the default analog value, you get the default value by looking in the source files, or deleting the game's .cfg file.

[Silverwind]

How well does a PC steering wheel/pedal set work in MAME?

Are any of them USB?

[Grasshopper]

You can't beat Outrun IMHO and it works on a relatively slow machine.

Crusin' USA/World are also good games. Unfortunately my current PC is not fast enough to handle them.

I play Outrun using a cheap PC steering wheel that plugs into the gameport. I found it very easy to calibrate in MAME.

[Silverwind]

You can't beat Outrun IMHO and it works on a relatively slow machine.

Crusin' USA/World are also good games. Unfortunately my current PC is not fast enough to handle them.

I play Outrun using a cheap PC steering wheel that plugs into the gameport. I found it very easy to calibrate in MAME.

How about games such as Super Offroad?  There are multiple steering wheels..  do multiple PC wheels work in mame?

[u_rebelscum]

How about games such as Super Offroad?  There are multiple steering wheels..  do multiple PC wheels work in mame?

PC wheels do not work well on Super Offroad type games ("These hardware, however, wouldn't work very well on the old, 360 degree wheel games.").

Multiple PC wheels work fine in mame as long as they are setup correctly in windows.  There are many USB wheels out there.

To tell if a game will work well with a PC wheel, start the game and look at "Input (this game)".  If "AD Stick" or "Paddle" are listed as input devices, PC wheels will work fine.  If the input type is "Dial", the PC wheels won't be any better than the keyboard.  If you feel up to weeding through a huge tab delimited text file (hint: database), download http://www.urebelscum.speedhost.com/dl/m62input.zip

[menace]

So if I set up say 2 x 360 degree wheels (mouse hacks essentially) are there any games I won't be able to play at all?  how do the new games handle that kind of input?

[Minwah]

I think you will be able to play most or all driving games...

BUT the ones which should use a 270degree wheel will not play as good as intended on the proper hardware.  eg playing Out Run with a spinner means you have to keep spinning the thing to steer - on the Out Run machine you would just steer enough and hold the wheel still (like a real car).

A bit like playing Star Wars with a trackball - OK (better than nothing) but not perfect.

I can't quite decide what to do about this for my cab since I don't really want wheels on my control panel.  I can handle using a spinner (without wheel) for 360degree wheel games, but maybe an analog stick would work better for the 270degree games(?)

[u_rebelscum]

So if I set up say 2 x 360 degree wheels (mouse hacks essentially) are there any games I won't be able to play at all?  how do the new games handle that kind of input?

Like said before, you'll be able to play the newer games.  Most of them won't be perfect because of the reason mentioned above, however I think some some of the newer games do not have this problem.  You have to keep spinning if the game driver sets the wheel to auto-center.  If the driver does not auto center, 360 degree wheels will work very well, only missing the 270 degree wheel's centering spring feel.

I think you will be able to play most or all driving games...

BUT the ones which should use a 270degree wheel will not play as good as intended on the proper hardware.  eg playing Out Run with a spinner means you have to keep spinning the thing to steer - on the Out Run machine you would just steer enough and hold the wheel still (like a real car).

You could edit the source and remove the auto center flag, and not have this problem (constant spinning) with 360 degree wheels or spinners.

I can't quite decide what to do about this for my cab since I don't really want wheels on my control panel.  I can handle using a spinner (without wheel) for 360degree wheel games, but maybe an analog stick would work better for the 270degree games(?)

Analog joysticks work fine, since a 270 degree wheel is just a specially shaped analog joystick X axis.  Only problem, IMO, is if the gas and brake are also controlled by the same joystick the control is not as good as if you had separate wheel and pedals.  To get around this, you could use two analog joysticks, one for steering, the other for gas & brake.  

And yes, you now can remap analog inputs (since 0.61), even though the FAQ still says you can't.  I've submitted suggested change(s) to the FAQ forum, but it's still out of date.

[Minwah]

[quote author=u_rebelscum
Analog joysticks work fine, since a 270 degree wheel is just a specially shaped analog joystick X axis.  Only problem, IMO, is if the gas and brake are also controlled by the same joystick the control is not as good as if you had separate wheel and pedals.  To get around this, you could use two analog joysticks, one for steering, the other for gas & brake.  

Most 'stick'/'paddle' driving games seem to have only an analog X axis though, with buttons for throttle/brake (I think).  So it should be fine to just steer with the analog stick, and use buttons (or digital pedals) to accelerate/brake...

...or am I wrong?  

[u_rebelscum]

Most 'stick'/'paddle' driving games seem to have only an analog X axis though, with buttons for throttle/brake (I think).  So it should be fine to just steer with the analog stick, and use buttons (or digital pedals) to accelerate/brake...

...or am I wrong?  

Depends on what the original arcade game had.  If the arcade had switch pedals, the accel & brake are probably mapped to buttons.

If the game has analog accel and no brake, mame usually uses the "pedal" input type, which is usually mapped to a button.  However, pedal is an analog input, and can be mapped to a real analog pedal (or Y axis of joystick) and you'll get real analog control (ie, you can half push the pedal and get half the accel).  Try it on SpyHunter; driving into the truck and driving in high gear will be much easier (and just like the arcades).

If the game has both analog accel and brake, they are usually mapped to the Y axis (up = accel, down = brake).

Not sure if all games are like this (thus the "usually"), but IIRC all the games I tested over the past year.  Also, since you can now (as of 0.61) remap analog inputs, I don't use mame's defaults anymore.  (The FAQ is out of date on this point, and my suggested FAQ changes have not been added yet.)

And at least one game (dirtfoxj) has joystick up and down mapped to the gear shift, which can be a pain if you use a joystick to steer also.

Some games do fine with buttons as accel & brake even if the arcade used analog inputs, or if you always drive "pedal to the metal".  But IMO, most games with analog pedals play much better with analog inputs, even if you use a part-way down point as few as twice per game (could mean a slow corner or crash vs fast corner at one part of the lap, changing the enjoyment of the game.) *shrug*  

[Minwah]

Cheers, I understand now

If I was to add 2 analog pedals to my cab (mapped to a joystick Y-axis), to use with the games you mention with analog throttle/brake, could these be mapped to work with games that have digital pedal(s) as well??

Also, I've assumed that 2 analog pedals could be made to work as one joystick axis - is this possible?  I mean like one pedal would be 'up' (throttle) and the other 'down' (brake)...

Sorry I'm a bit dumb about this - I don't have any analog joysticks to play around with yet

[Beley]

.......
Also, I've assumed that 2 analog pedals could be made to work as one joystick axis - is this possible?  I mean like one pedal would be 'up' (throttle) and the other 'down' (brake)...

.....

check this site out, it explains how to do that, among other things
http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels/wiring.htm
look at the diagram labled "wiring with single axis throttle/brake"

[u_rebelscum]

If I was to add 2 analog pedals to my cab (mapped to a joystick Y-axis), to use with the games you mention with analog throttle/brake, could these be mapped to work with games that have digital pedal(s) as well??

Yes, No problem.  Just like mapping analog joystick to play digital joystick games.

Also, I've assumed that 2 analog pedals could be made to work as one joystick axis - is this possible?  I mean like one pedal would be 'up' (throttle) and the other 'down' (brake)...

Yes.

Another site http://www.monmouth.com/~lw4750/index.html also has some info on wiring.  Both explain combined (single axis) and split (dual axis) wiring very well.

Of course, going single axis means you can't brake at the same time as rev the engine in games that allow this.  Besides a very few, I'm not sure which games can and can't do this in software (For example: non-emu'ed SF Rush can.)

And most games that had accel and brake are mapped by default to up & down of the Y axis in mame, anyway.  At fact, many of the older PC driving games only support this.  So if you look at PC steering wheels that can split the gas and brake, they will have a driver (software) switch that combines or splits the pedals.  

Sorry I'm a bit dumb about this - I don't have any analog joysticks to play around with yet

Don't worry.  Most arcade games are digital input only.  But there some great classics that play so much better with analog.  You'll see when you start going analog.

[Minwah]

Thanks for those links guys, very helpful

I think I might just add a pot with spinner knob on it (paddle?) for use with the 270degree wheel games - I hadn't thought of that before...and some pedals.  That should make the driving games pretty playable.

Don't worry.  Most arcade games are digital input only.  But there some great classics that play so much better with analog.  You'll see when you start going analog.

Yeah I haven't played any of the analog stick games properly in MAME yet, I definately need to sort myself a stick