Newbie parts order help

[Agrajag]

After much nashing of teeth, I have decided to give building my own CP a shot.

The big question now is that I need an idea of exactly what I need to order and some suggestions on where to order from.

I plan to model my CP a bit after a SlikStik though I may opt to go for 1 player controls only (with two sticks) but will buy for two in case.

I want 24 buttons with a possible 25th (see below). I need to know exactly what the best kind are to order. Microswitch with horizontal switches?

I need 1 player one button, 1 player two, 6 green, 2 red, 4 yellow, 4 black and 6 blue. I plan to have 7 buttons per player, coin 1 & 2, support for Pause, Plunger button and 2 side buttons for left and right flipper and nudge. I would like support for center nudge but can't figure out where to put the button! HELP! On a keyboard it's generally Z, ? and space for nudge so all are easy to reach without moving your hands from the flipper keys. I'd like the same ability here.

I also want to bathandle sticks. I've read about Happ's optical. Do I want that or do I just want 8 ways or 4/8 adjustable (if this, do I adjust without opening the box or do you have to open it, thus making this kind of useless)? What model specifically is best?

I would also like a spinner (Oscar perhaps?) and a trackball but want EVERYTHING to be 100% USB. I'd love to find one controller to handle all 3 tasks but realize I'm likely not to find it.

That leads me to also believe that I should just bite the bullet and order the ipac 56 input unit. Several people I've spoken with say they didn't and now regret it. I'd prefer not to have to share buttons.

What else (aside from the box) do I need to order with this order to have all the electronics handy?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh yes, where can I turn to get templates and such for the buttons and various other items I'm ordering so I can effectively lay them out on a schematic so that I know my measurements are comfortable? Not even sure what standard button spacing is center-to-center.

[shaunti]

The encoders here
http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/keusb36.html
http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/modules.html
http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/ME4.html

are some good choices.
I have the LP24 and the ME4 for the trackball/spinner.
A SCSI 50-pin ribbon works great with the encoder.

or
the IPAC and Optipac.

This with the usb cabling and the other radio shack wiring stuff for the encoder to buttons job should be all you need.

The only thing you can wire up to the encoders for joysticks are the microswitch or leaf switch joysticks.

The Happ super 8-way are what I use.  
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/super_joy.htm

[Nailz]

Go with the Oscar spinner for sure, he does great work.  As for joysticks, I went with the Wico 8-ways as I like the way they feel and they perform just as well in 4-way without needing a restrictor plate or a specific 4-way stick.  I guess it depends on what games you like more, if you are into the newer fighting games and such, I think more people choose the Happs joysticks, but if you like the old school games better, which I do, I like the Wico leaf switch sticks.

I went the the Hagstrom encoders for my MAME cab, but I have heard nothing but great things about the I-Pac and Opti-Pac so I will be trying them out for my next project.

I have a Word doc of my joystick layout if you are interested.  I have 2 8-ways with 7 buttons each, a trackball, spinner, an 8-way with fire button on top,  as well as the basic buttons for 1 player, 2 player, coins, etc.  I like the way mine worked out and it goes well with my cab, you may want something a bit smaller but it doesn't hurt to see what others have done.

[Agrajag]

I have the LP24 and the ME4 for the trackball/spinner.
A SCSI 50-pin ribbon works great with the encoder.

So is it possible to have  all the items terminate at one USB interface to the PC without a USB hub? That I'd LOVE.

[Agrajag]

Go with the Oscar spinner for sure, he does great work.  As for joysticks, I went with the Wico 8-ways as I like the way they feel and they perform just as well in 4-way without needing a restrictor plate or a specific 4-way stick.  I guess it depends on what games you like more, if you are into the newer fighting games and such, I think more people choose the Happs joysticks, but if you like the old school games better, which I do, I like the Wico leaf switch sticks.

I went the the Hagstrom encoders for my MAME cab, but I have heard nothing but great things about the I-Pac and Opti-Pac so I will be trying them out for my next project.

I have a Word doc of my joystick layout if you are interested.  I have 2 8-ways with 7 buttons each, a trackball, spinner, an 8-way with fire button on top,  as well as the basic buttons for 1 player, 2 player, coins, etc.  I like the way mine worked out and it goes well with my cab, you may want something a bit smaller but it doesn't hurt to see what others have done.

I'd love to get the word doc. Feel free to e-mail it. Also where is a good source for the Wico? I haven't even seen a picture yet.

[Nailz]

IM me your email and I will get that stuff out to you.

[cdbrown]

Agrajag, good to see you've taken the plunge.

The Ipac56 (which has the choice of usb) is a good idea just in case you decide on making something bigger in the future however having some buttons shared is not an issue as you could share each of the pinball buttons with any of the other buttons.  But as you are having 24 (25) buttons and 2 joysticks (4 inputs each) giving you around 32 or 33 inputs - go for the bigger encoder if your budget is able to.

For the layout I have gone for http://home.iprimus.com.au/craigrb/images/New%20button%20layout.jpg which is very comfortable.  Will have the players credit and start buttons somewhere else (haven't decided yet).

I have Happs supers, Happs opticals and T-stiks (from ultimarc) which are all bat style handles and you can see them on my site.  Only get opticals if you want and like to play the games that need the optical joystick.  They are very expensive.  The supers are very hard to change between 4 and 8 way as you need to get to the bottom of the shaft, remove a clip, turn over the hourglass piece and put it all back together.  The t-stiks have a switch on the side which will still require you to go into the panel.  They are also shorter and don't have much movement.

Like Nailz said go for oscar spinners - great product and he is very helpful.  He also has restrictor plates that can make the joystick into 4 way or 2 way without going into the panel which is what you are looking for.

There is eventually going to be a usb release of the optipac which you can plug the happs optical (if you get one), spinners, trackball.  Are you going to go for 2 spinners and 2 trackballs?  2 spinners will require you to use +analog for axis splitting.  Also if you get 2 usb trackballs you can also use +analog (I think).  But if it's just one of each then it would work fine.  Some people hack the trackballs into usb mice if not usb already and I think there are some tutorials on it around.

So the Ipac would require 1 usb port and depending if you are going through the optipac (which isn't usb yet) that would be another.  Otherwise you will need a usb port of the spinner and one for the trackball unless you swap them out when you want to use them.

Other electrics - wires, quick connects, PC, tv/monitor, power, marquee light, power tools (yeah) but get all this from local shops.

Hope this helps and good luck with the planning.  Post pics, links on how you proceed and any other q's you might have.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[mcleanjoel]

The Usb Optipac is available now - They don't have it on the website yet but I ordered one. I'll have it by Monday or Tuesday.

Agrajag,

I believe you are going to need at least 2 if not 3 usb connections if you use the I-pac & Opti-pac both with USB connectors.
I haven't received mine yet so I don't know if the Opti-pac is going to need 1 or 2 but my guess is 2 since the serial version uses 2 and to get 1 usb he would need to build in a mini-hub.

If you only use 1 trackball & 1 spinner though you can connect them to the same port and have only 1 usb for the opti-pac.

You can just put the USB hub inside the control panel and run 1 usb cable to the pc.
I know some of the hubs are powered while others are not - I am not sure if this setup is best used with a powered hub?

 

[Agrajag]

For the layout I have gone for http://home.iprimus.com.au/craigrb/images/New%20button%20layout.jpg which is very comfortable.  Will have the players credit and start buttons somewhere else (haven't decided yet).

That's the 7 button layout I wanted basically though with the 6 buttons not angled. I keep wondering about angling them like yours but can't decide. I probably will end up doing it due to employing the "Gamepad" metaphor. MS' gamepad has the buttons laid out on an angle and I'm used to that so why should this be an issue right?

He also has restrictor plates that can make the joystick into 4 way or 2 way without going into the panel which is what you are looking for.

Are these quickly added and removed? If so, FANTASTIC! I can then get Defender going quickly and so forth.

There is eventually going to be a usb release of the optipac which you can plug the happs optical (if you get one), spinners, trackball.  Are you going to go for 2 spinners and 2 trackballs?

No, just one of each which is also leaning me towards building a nice single player CP with the extra joystick for all the two-joystick games. I'm thinking that even if I wanted to play a two-player game, that my desk (L shaped corner desk) I really wouldn't have enough room to be comfortable.  Better to build two single player units perhaps. Of course then I'd have potentially 6 USB cables to attach and that's no fun.

So the Ipac would require 1 usb port and depending if you are going through the optipac (which isn't usb yet) that would be another.  Otherwise you will need a usb port of the spinner and one for the trackball unless you swap them out when you want to use them.

The devices must be USB or I have no interest. I hate pass-thrus and want this to be quickly removable, etc. As far as "swapping them out" what do you mean? Picturing some sort of box where I can add components on the fly.....

I'm heading to a countertop company on Monday who says I can go through their scraps for a nice piece of formica on 3/4" MDF. The idea of having to router out the joystick areas is a bit scary to me both from a stability standpoint and possibly goofing up the job royally but that seems to be about the only real choice. I prefer the sound of formica as it looks nice and probably would hold up for a LONG time.

[Agrajag]

The Usb Optipac is available now - They don't have it on the website yet but I ordered one. I'll have it by Monday or Tuesday.

Agrajag,

I believe you are going to need at least 2 if not 3 usb connections if you use the I-pac & Opti-pac both with USB connectors.
I haven't received mine yet so I don't know if the Opti-pac is going to need 1 or 2 but my guess is 2 since the serial version uses 2 and to get 1 usb he would need to build in a mini-hub.

If you only use 1 trackball & 1 spinner though you can connect them to the same port and have only 1 usb for the opti-pac.

You can just put the USB hub inside the control panel and run 1 usb cable to the pc.
I know some of the hubs are powered while others are not - I am not sure if this setup is best used with a powered hub?

That's good news! How much is it? I really would like 1 USB out but a hub kills the idea dead because then I'd have yet another cable coming out for power. The goal, ultimately (which may mean waiting some time for a design to integrate all into one out and refitting then) is one cable out just like any other joystick short of force feedback sticks.

[Agrajag]

I still need some help on what to do about center nudge. Does anyone have an idea that's better than a third side button on the left or right side?

I need left and right side buttons for left and right flippers, then another l/r pair for l/r nudge. Obviously I can put a button on the top or front in the center, but unless I grow a third arm, I'm not going to be able to reach it without moving off the flippers thus ruining the game. All I can think of is to add a center nudge to work off my left or right side. Seems silly though.

[eightbit]

I've seen motion activated switches. You could use one of those for center nudge.

[Agrajag]

I've seen motion activated switches. You could use one of those for center nudge.

A motion sensor? I've seen those. That's an interesting thought, but would it somehow hook into an ipac to send a button push? And then the bigger question is, how do you turn it off so it's not sending errant presses when you're not playing pinball? <grin>

[mcleanjoel]

I think it is supposed to be $5 more than  the serial one.
I guess I got a deal because I ordered before it was released.

If you are creative I bet you could build one using a steel ball and a leaf switch wired for "normally closed."

The ball would be on a short track just off level so it presses the leaf closed. When nudged the ball would move off the switch opening the circuit and sending a button push to the I-Pac.

Of course all this assumes the CP is kept level and can take a little "nudging."

To turn this off just wire the ground to a toggle switch.

What do you guys think? Would it work?

[eightbit]

They make motion activated switches that will trip when it receives motion from a certain direction and not from others. Thus you orient the switch in the direction that you want the nudge for.  You then wire it to the ipac as a keyboard press. I seen someone do a write up on this but I don't remember where it was.

Back to the origanel post- First I would like to say welcome newbie!   Caution you have entered into an addictive hobby. You must get the wife or significant others support before you go farther. Video games are more fun with someone to play with. Next my advice would be to go back to the home page of this site and start with the newbie guide. Read every thing relevant to what you are trying to do. Many of the questions you are asking have been answered in depth with excellent step by step directions. Then once you get a little knowledge come back and ask specific questions. The people here are a great bunch and they love to help.  

[cdbrown]

For the center nudge why don't you put a button on the front wall of the control panel that way you sort of thrust forward with your hips which will hit the button, just like if you were playing an actual pinball.  Just don't do it too hard though as you may regret it .  And if you are going for the ipac56 then use one of the spare inputs.  During non pinball game this button wouldn't be mapped to anything so you can nudge it to your hearts content without it doing anything.  Just remember when playing pinball not to lean against the front panel which of course eventually lead to the tilt switch being activated.  I'm sure there might be better ways for this but it keeps your hands on the flippers and use your body for nudge.

*shrug* (Rampy style) just and idea

Cheers
-cdbrown

[gtjoe]

for center nudge, your hands will be on the sides so place a button on the top of the cp that you can reach with your thumb.

I have one usb cable leaving my cp because I have a usb hub inside.  The usb hub(non-powered so no extra power cable)  has the i-pac, a usb spinner, a thrustmaster dual analog game pad for 2 player smash tv, AND a ps2 based 3" imperial trackball - I used a ps2 to usb converter ~$9 from www.callcct.com.  Everything works great.

As for layout of the buttons, use cardboard or heavy posterboard to install the buttons in various configs to see which you like best.

As for the i-pac, if you want to save some money, get the 28 model and  utilize the shift feature for all the pause, menu, etc.

[Agrajag]

Well I actually saw a "button" somewhere on one of the supply sites that was a large, soft, square thing about the size of half a baseball and you basically hit it or nudged it to get a response. Thought that was a possibility.

Status now is that I'm off Monday to a countertop company to see a friend who says he's got all sorts of spare 3/4" pieces of formica and others that would be great for this and that I can pretty much just have my pick for free, so that takes care of the top. I'll order the specific parts next Friday or so and get cranking.

I'll have to figure out the box. Not sure yet how to make it easily accessible while also making it solid when not opened so that it doesn't rattle around. I suspect I will need to get to the inside every once in a great while. Though I could be really creative and leave the bottom open <grin> with rubber feet all around the bottom edges.

I'd love to post a concept template for input here but don't have a personal site to post it on so unless you're really interested in giving feedback on it, I'll have to be satisfied with it as is.

Thanks again. Current leaning ipac56 with optipac USB and Happ Ultimates (I prefer bat handles) but not sure yet on the sticks. Buttons are happs of course. Not sure where to get the spinner and trackball yet. I see Oscar for spinner mentioned but need to assure that it interfaces with an optipac.

[cdbrown]

Make sure that you get the happs stuff from Bob Roberts as he is cheaper than Happs Controls.

With the center nudge go for what you feel comfortable with - I know i hit the front of a  pinball with my hips as I play so that's the way I'd go.  The soft button sounds great.

As gtjoe said - make sure you practice your layout with cardboard or similar.  It definitely saved me from my original uncomfortable layout, and has saved many other BYOAC'ers.  Build a cardboard version with the different center nudge locations and see what suits you best.  Everyones advice is only based on thier own experience and opinions.  I haven't started on my panel that will have pinball controls so I'm not really sure if that's where to put it but it does make some sense (unlike this message )

Enjoy  building models, testing panels and playing games.  And show us pics.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Agrajag]

There is eventually going to be a usb release of the optipac which you can plug the happs optical (if you get one), spinners, trackball.  Are you going to go for 2 spinners and 2 trackballs?  2 spinners will require you to use +analog for axis splitting.  Also if you get 2 usb trackballs you can also use +analog (I think).  But if it's just one of each then it would work fine.  Some people hack the trackballs into usb mice if not usb already and I think there are some tutorials on it around.

So the Ipac would require 1 usb port and depending if you are going through the optipac (which isn't usb yet) that would be another.  Otherwise you will need a usb port of the spinner and one for the trackball unless you swap them out when you want to use them.

Other electrics - wires, quick connects, PC, tv/monitor, power, marquee light, power tools (yeah) but get all this from local shops.

Hope this helps and good luck with the planning.  Post pics, links on how you proceed and any other q's you might have.

Cheers
-cdbrown

CD,

I just noticed a couple things in your earlier post that caught my attention:

Like Nailz said go for oscar spinners - great product and he is very helpful.  He also has restrictor plates that can make the joystick into 4 way or 2 way without going into the panel which is what you are looking for.

Two questions on this: Do Oscar spinners connect to an optipac interface, thus with the new USB interface making the oscar a USB device?

These restrictor plates, which sticks do they work with specifically?

There is eventually going to be a usb release of the optipac which you can plug the happs optical (if you get one), spinners, trackball.

So IF I got the Happs Optical, Oscar spinner and a trackball (which do you guys recommend?), they can all interface with an optipac that is hooked in tandem with an ipac56 and all would be USB and it sounds like it might just be one USB out? Am I going to be that lucky? And will the restrictor plates work with the opticals?

[cdbrown]

OK Agrajag,

From http://www.oscarcontrols.com I could see that you can get a spinner that can connect directly to the optipac (or other encoder) or if you choose can go straight to usb connector through a usb mouse interface.

I have very little knowledge regarding how easy the restrictors are installed/uninstalled but from Oscars site it seems reasonably simple and quick and will work with any joystick (well 8-way as it wouldn't worth using it with a 4-way).

If you got the happs optical (only get it if you feel you are going to use it $$$) and spinner these could be input into the player 1 X1 and X2 (sharing) inputs of the optipac as you wouldn't need to spin both at the same time.  If you were to get a 2nd optical or spinner then this would go in the player 1 Y1 and Y2 inputs and you would need +Analog to be able to see both axis inputs (check out some other threads on this).

The trackball can be hooked up to the optipac depending on what type it is.  The type I have I cannot hook into the optipac without changing out the optics boards on the trackball.  There are trackballs which will connect to the optipac and there are also trackballs which can go straight to usb.

So you need to work out weather you want to have happs opticals, if so then recommend going for the optipac as well as the suitable spinner and trackball.  That way all these items will connect to the optipac and then to the pc with one usb connection (but only for 1 trackball - if you have two then you'll need 2 usb connections).

Hope this makes things slightly clearer , if not ask again and we'll have another crack at it

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Agrajag]

I have very little knowledge regarding how easy the restrictors are installed/uninstalled but from Oscars site it seems reasonably simple and quick and will work with any joystick (well 8-way as it wouldn't worth using it with a 4-way).

It did look pretty simple. They are screwed down but do support attaching with quick removable pins. Not sure is that would make them rattle but it's nice to know this is an option. I plan to play a lot of Stargate/Defender and this would be perfect.

If you got the happs optical (only get it if you feel you are going to use it $$$)

Suddenly I can't find this stick on the Happs site under Joysticks! As far as using them, they would work with every game right? My main reason for liking them is to get all 3 devices onto one USB cable out. Otherwise I'll just go Universal or Ultimate or Super.

and spinner these could be input into the player 1 X1 and X2 (sharing) inputs of the optipac as you wouldn't need to spin both at the same time.

Well, how about one of my favorites like Frontline? You move with the joystick but control firing with the spinner.

So you need to work out weather you want to have happs opticals, if so then recommend going for the optipac as well as the suitable spinner and trackball.  That way all these items will connect to the optipac and then to the pc with one usb connection (but only for 1 trackball - if you have two then you'll need 2 usb connections).

Gotcha. But if I opt for a Happs other than the opticals does this mean I'd end up with more than one USB cable out? I'm really liking the sound of the Happ Super joysticks.

Hope this makes things slightly clearer , if not ask again and we'll have another crack at it

It did. It just generated more questions. <grin>

I ordered all my buttons tonight. Figured they'd be the most fun to play with initially. I can some clearances in mind and futz with the colors and such. I ordered enough for my 2-player setup even though I think I'll just end up with a 1-player device. Extra buttons doesn't sound like a bad thing to me as I suspect, if this goes well, I'll probably jump into a cabinet next.

[cdbrown]

Suddenly I can't find this stick on the Happs site under Joysticks! As far as using them, they would work with every game right?  My main reason for liking them is to get all 3 devices onto one USB cable out. Otherwise I'll just go Universal or Ultimate or Super.

We may have our wires crossed here.  The optical is basically a super but it registers the rotation.  The rotation part, looking left and right (encoder wheel) is connected to an optipac while the normal movement like forward ,backwards, (microswitches) is connected to the ipac.

Well, how about one of my favorites like Frontline? You move with the joystick but control firing with the spinner.

This would be good for the happs optical where you rotate the joystick as well as move the joystick leaving your other hand free for shooting.  I don't think it would be very easy to use the joystick, spinner and buttons at the same time.   The happs optical rotary is a spinner joystick basically except it doesn't spin as easily

Gotcha. But if I opt for a Happs other than the opticals does this mean I'd end up with more than one USB cable out?

You will need 1 usb for the ipac and 1 for the optipac if you chose to hook up the optical type parts to the optipac

I ordered all my buttons tonight. Figured they'd be the most fun to play with initially. I can some clearances in mind and futz with the colors and such. I ordered enough for my 2-player setup even though I think I'll just end up with a 1-player device. Extra buttons doesn't sound like a bad thing to me as I suspect, if this goes well, I'll probably jump into a cabinet next.

So you've already ordered all the buttons, did you remember to get the white buttons with the little men on them as start buttons.

Maybe this will be clearer
all the buttons connected to the ipac
the basic movements of the joysticks connected to the ipac
ipac to pc with usb
rotary part of joystick connected to optipac
spinner connected to optipac
trackball to optipac

so only 2 usb.  if you don't have the happs opticals you could get usb spinner and usb trackball (and of course the usb ipac) and need 3 usb.  But it sounds like you enjoy Frontline and such (merc) so the happs optical rotary would be beneficial.

I am sorry if I confused you or led you astray with the opticals.  Hope this time it helps

Cheers
-cdbrown

[mcleanjoel]

I don't have my USB Opti-Pac yet but I still expect to see it arrive with 2 USB connections. It would be great if Andy added the electronics to combine in one so I hope I am wrong.

If my expectations are correct you will need 3 total USB cables:
1 for the I-pac
2 for the Opti-pac since you are planning 3 inputs to it.

I still am not sure if you might get away with an un-powered USB hub - I don't think these controls are overly demanding on power requirements - anyone here have a good grasp on the possible consequences of overloading the USB without additional power?

Staples or OfficeMax has them 2 for $10 today after rebate. The picture looks like they are un-powered.

[Agrajag]

We may have our wires crossed here.  The optical is basically a super but it registers the rotation.  The rotation part, looking left and right (encoder wheel) is connected to an optipac while the normal movement like forward ,backwards, (microswitches) is connected to the ipac.

Ah, so the optical is not just an optical regular stick it's really a rotating stick (that I did see) of the so-called "ikari" type. In other words, if I got this stick, it would support rotating as well. My only concern with that is how it would feel for non-rotating game.

You will need 1 usb for the ipac and 1 for the optipac if you chose to hook up the optical type parts to the optipac

That stinks. It was looking like the optipac plugged into the ipac so I got thinking that the result would be one USB output. So the bottom line is, if I have a trackball and/spinner, I'm going to have two USB cables out at a minimum. I'll have to have the ipac (or similar) for keyboard and standard joystick output and the optipac for any optical outs.

So you've already ordered all the buttons, did you remember to get the white buttons with the little men on them as start buttons.

Absolutely.

But it sounds like you enjoy Frontline and such (merc) so the happs optical rotary would be beneficial.

The big one on that is that in Frontline you often have to shoot behind you and I can't imagine a rotary stick being able to be rotated easily behind you. If it's that big of a deal I'll get over it. The original Frontline managed to pull it all off with a stick, spinner and two buttons.

I am sorry if I confused you or led you astray with the opticals.  Hope this time it helps

Nah, don't worry about it. Newbie delusions of grandeur. <grin> IF I go with the rotating stick, it'd just be one of them so the cost won't be that bad, but I'm really not leaning that way right now.

[eightbit]

Don't make the mistake I did. I purchased 2 SNK LS-30 rotary joysticks and an optipac. Then I found that these joysticks need a different circuit board to convert the rotary output to clockwise and counter clock wise inputs for a Ipac. That circuit board cost me another $50. I still plan to use the opti-pac for a future spinner so not all is lost. I wouldn't recomend these joysticks for an all purpose joystick but if you want to play heavy barrel or ikari warrior type games then these are almost a requirement.

[MadJeff]

Ah, so the optical is not just an optical regular stick it's really a rotating stick (that I did see) of the so-called "ikari" type. In other words, if I got this stick, it would support rotating as well. My only concern with that is how it would feel for non-rotating game.

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm currently in the process of laying out a 4-player setup and would like to use rotary "Ikari" sticks for the middle 2 players sticks, but am unsure how they would feel for regular games. I used to play a ton of Heavy Barrel with a few friends and if I didn't have the rotary stick it just wouldn't feel right.   But I don't want to sacrifice playability for other games.

Does anyone else here use rotary sticks? How DO they feel in regular games?

BTW, just wanted to say hello to all, this is my first post here.   After 2+ years of saying I was going to build a cab, I've finally got off my lazy butt and started getting everything together. My cab plans are complete in Acad and 3-d modelled so I've got that part of the design done. But this "Ultimate CPanel Layout" thing is taking some time.  

[Agrajag]

But this "Ultimate CPanel Layout" thing is taking some time.  

(Welcome!) Tell me about it. I'm going nuts trying to decide how to lay my CP out. I've pretty much decided that with this first one, I'll start with a 1 player model to keep the size down a bit and to learn. I'll build the bigger one when I tackle a cabinet.

So, what I'm stuck on is this. I plan on two sticks (currently leaning towards supers) with 7 buttons next to one and a trackball and spinner somewhere in the middle. The key question is, should the seven buttons go to the right of the left joystick, then the trackball and spinner and then the right stick or should it go from left stick to trackball/spinner then right stick and finally 7 buttons? Or should it be something else?

I keep trying to think of the various games and which will be most comfortable for the bulk of them. It's important because it will decide if I use the trackball and spinner with my left or right hand. Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

[u_rebelscum]

I don't have my USB Opti-Pac yet but I still expect to see it arrive with 2 USB connections. It would be great if Andy added the electronics to combine in one so I hope I am wrong.

Andy did the right thing: you only need one USB cord for both trackballs.

[SNAAAKE]

I still am not sure if you might get away with an un-powered USB hub - I don't think these controls are overly demanding on power requirements - anyone here have a good grasp on the possible consequences of overloading the USB without additional power?

I have unpowered usb hub that I bought for $20 at compusa and I have 4 psx to usb converter and they all seem to run perfect(I used them all together for 4 players games sometimes).SO you probley wont have any problem with this power overloading issue.

[Agrajag]

Andy did the right thing: you only need one USB cord for both trackballs.

We're saying we want one USB cable when using both the ipac and optipac.

[u_rebelscum]

Andy did the right thing: you only need one USB cord for both trackballs.

We're saying we want one USB cable when using both the ipac and optipac.

Yes, I see that most people are talking about that.  I was only answering the one small question that I quoted from mcleanjoel in my reply.  

It does mean two instead of three if you use USB ipac + USB opac w/ 2 trackballs.  Closer, but not the one cable you want.  

[Agrajag]

Guys if I go Optipac/ipac combo, which trackball do I want? Andy recommended getting from from Wico but their site just shows a catalog to order. In this day and age that seems antiquated.

Also, Oscar has the spinners it seems, but do I want the Oscar 3 or the Pro? Why?

[cdbrown]

Ah, so the optical is not just an optical regular stick it's really a rotating stick (that I did see) of the so-called "ikari" type. In other words, if I got this stick, it would support rotating as well. My only concern with that is how it would feel for non-rotating game.

Ikari type is similar the happs rotary not happs optical. Ikari and happs rotary are mechanical types which click as they are rotated (12 times for one rotation) while the optical is like a spiner.  More info below...

Happs Optical - They are based on the Happs super so the microswitches register the forward movement.  Both the super and the Optical can rotate it's just the Optical has an encoder wheel and optics at the base of the shaft which registers the rotation.  The rotation is smooth just like a spinner but has some resistance.  The happs rotary (non optical) and "ikari" type do not spin like a spinner but click 12 times for on rotation.  The optipac cannot connect to this as they don't use encoder wheels and optics.  Ikari joysticks are quite short and stubby, not like the normal sticks you see in the arcade.

The Happs optical works exactly the same as the super so there's no worry there.  So if you want a joystick that will be able to register the rotation then Happs optical is the one you want.  The stick nearly rotates as easily as the spinner just has some more friction.

You will need two usb (one ipac one optipac) there's no way around that, unless you do as others and get a hub so those two go into the hub then one usb to the computer??

So, what I'm stuck on is this. I plan on two sticks (currently leaning towards supers) with 7 buttons next to one and a trackball and spinner somewhere in the middle. The key question is, should the seven buttons go to the right of the left joystick, then the trackball and spinner and then the right stick or should it go from left stick to trackball/spinner then right stick and finally 7 buttons? Or should it be something else?

Normally it goes (from left to right) stick, buttons, trackball, stick, buttons with the spinner above the first set of buttons.  But this is only what I have seen on other panels with the same stuff you are talking about.  You just need to work out if you rather play games using the joystick in your left hand and buttons on the right.  It would seem from your question that you are only having one set of buttons but two joysticks for one player only.  If that's the case you need to think about where you want to be standing for the different types of games.  Having the buttons next to the joystick is always good and sensible.  You'd want a clear area around the trackball because the last thing you want is to hit something during a big swing in golden tee (you could really hurt your hand and damage the controls).  What hand would you use for the spinner and trackball.  If the spinner is left hand you could have it slightly to the left and above the lft joystick.  Puts it out of the way of the trackball and lets you use the right hand for the buttons.  So maybe it spinner, left stick, buttons, trackball, right stick.  The last thing to consider (which is still as important as the others) is that you'd want the two sticks to be a comfortable distance apart.  The most comfortable for me would be approximately shoulder width apart for the two stick games.  Have a think, get a big piece of cardboard and some small pieces (cut to the size of the controls) and place them around to see if you have any clashes.  Most of the time the will be some glaring problems that are easily fixed by moving something.

Hope this helps you out some more.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Agrajag]

Thanks. This did help quite a bit. I'm getting ready to order the sticks and such next. I got my top today, or at least what I hope my top will be. Turns out my boss' brother owns a countertop company and said I could have any leftovers he had. When I showed him what I was working on, he went over to a shelf and pulled down a 17x36x.5 piece of something called Avonite. Beautiful midnight blue color. Looks like a mix between Corian and granite. I hope a half inch is thick enough to stand up to some punishment but hey, it was free and it feels like granite so it should be pretty sturdy.

[u_rebelscum]

Guys if I go Optipac/ipac combo, which trackball do I want? Andy recommended getting from from Wico but their site just shows a catalog to order. In this day and age that seems antiquated.

Wico trackballs are priced the lowest; one reason might be because they didn't spend extra money on their webpages.  At $25 for a new 2 1/4" tb, and $50 for a 3", they're a steal.  

If you are going 2 1/4, you almost have to go wico, with happ's 2 1/4" three times the price.  

3" trackballs (happs, wico, betson/imperial):
I like the happs the best, except it sounds the bumpiest, even though they all feel basically the same smooth-ness.  The happs spins the longest and has the best lip around the ball: I sometimes get pinched between the ball the the lip with the wico and the betson, but not with the happs.  The only difference between the wico and betson, AFAICT, is the outside of the case: the rollers and screws holding the case together are in exactly the same spots and seem the same to me.  They roll pretty much like each other.  The wico "lip" is only 1/16", so if would be hard to mount it under anything except the happs mounting plate.  The betson's lip is 1/4" (like the happs "High Lip"/"Golden Tee"), which makes mounting easier.  The betson and wico case's are the same size (bigger than the happs), except the betson looks like a football, and the wico has the curves cut staight. betson vs wico vs happs

Also, Oscar has the spinners it seems, but do I want the Oscar 3 or the Pro? Why?

This is mentioned on the oscar web site, but the Oscar 3 is lighter and as less continued spin after letting go than the Pro.