Dreamcast/Playstation Controller Help Needed

[phantompower]

OK Team,

Many of you have seen my Dreamcast controller on my website.  I have lately added the Playstation controllers for the purpose of running them both.

Anyway, my problem is this....I am using a barrier strip to run both the Playstation and Dreamcast wires to (on one side).  On the otherside of the strip, is the wire to the buttons.

With the Dreamcast side plugged in (and only the Dreamcast - the Playstation wire is not connected to the Playstation), all works perfectly. With the Dreamcast cable unplugged and the Playstation wire connected, the Playstation side does not work at all.

To troubleshoot this issue, I removed the Dreamcast portion of the wires from the barrier strip and all works perfectly on the Playstation.  I also tried to narrow the problem down to the ground.  I re-connected all of the Dreamcast wires (minus the ground) and every button and the directions acted like the Start button.

I know this is confusing, but the problem is simple:  With all of the wires connected correctly (as I can get them each to work independantly).  When both controllers are connected to the same barrier strip, the Playstation side does not work.

I think I can get this to work with a second barrier strip and each joystick connected to their own barrier strip with the double wires connected to each "normally closed" on the buttons.

Any help to avoid the need for a second barrier strip would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Phantom "Chuck" Power

[Eddie Fantastic]

Have you tried using the playstation controls with the dc controllers plugged in and the dc turned on?
I had the same problem wiring a dc and ipac in parallel with each other, the ipac would only work if the dc controllers were plugged in and turned on. I also found that if I changed game on the dc with the ipac plugged in (which I would do since I would use the pc to play mp3's whilst playing dc games) it would cause the pc to hang. I didn't like this at all.
In the end I wired them them in totally seperate from each other and haven't had a problem since.

[phantompower]

Eddie,

Thanks for the reply.

When you say wired the "separately", do you mean the way I am suggesting by running each controller to their own barrier strip, then running both barrier strips to the same buttons?

I think this would work fine.

Let me know.
Chuck

[Eddie_Fantastic]

As long as the dc and ps controls don't conflict with each other in any way it should all work without problems.
I've just had a look at your website, they are a couple of mighty fine looking control panels you have there.

[phantompower]

Thank you  

So...in summary, can anyone verify if my idea to use two sets of barrier strips with the Playstation and Dreamcast controllers running to their own, and then the other side of all of the barrier strips going to the same buttons would work?

I would like to avoid the need for a second controller for the Playstation games.

Chuck

[Dave_K.]

What Dreamcast pad did you use to hack?  Does each pad have its own common ground wire?

I found it easiest to wire my hacked DC and PS pads with Molex quick disconnects.  Just open the control panel and swap the connectors.

-Dave

[phantompower]

Dave,

I use the MadCatz for all of my applications.  Each pad has it's own common ground wire.  

I am hoping that some extra barrier strips that I can run to the Playstation controllers will allow for enough freedom to not cause the PS controller to not work.  I think doubling up the button wires from each of the barrier strips will cause this to be OK.

I wish there were more pracitical applications of this on the examples page.  CD Vision has a diagram...but I am not having too much luck with that layout.

Chuck

[bowmand1]

I agree with Dave_K (nice avatar, Dave!)  molex is definately the way to go.  Least amount of headache.

Or, and this is an idea that delta88 and I are messing around with...  you know those boxes that allow you to hook one printer to 3-5 computers, or 3-5 printers to one computer?  well, if you pick up one of those that supports at least two to one, you could panel-mount the face of it just under your control panel... or just set it inside where you've got your consoles (mine are inside my coin doors, on custom shelves...) and whenever you want to play a different console, you just turn the AB knob...  :-)  

if you were doing Dreamcast and Saturn, you could get by with (1) full-parallel 25-pin A-B to C box for two players, because the most conductors you'd need is 12 (6 buttons, start button, 4 d-pad directions and a common ground plane on the MadCatz dreampad) and a FULL PARALLEL DB-25 switch box has 24 switchable lines (whereas a serial DB-25 switchbox only has 12...weird, huh)  and pin 1 is common.  So you could run pins 2-13 for player 1, and pins 14-25 for player 2, and be all set.

But with Playstation, you'd prob'ly need a separate switchbox for each player, cuz you've got 16-conductors (4 d-pad, 4 shoulder buttons, 4 fire buttons, select, start, and I'm pretty sure two separate grounds)

one more reason why Dreamcast rules, but that's for another place and time.

Keep it real!  Let me know if you need help finding any of this stuff!

I just think having two many controllers constantly hooked up in parallel may eventually cause problems, even if you get them working at first, because of all the extra wire involved, that power ends up going into... could cause too much of a draw on the system being used at the time...  if this doesn't make sense to you, I'm sorry, cuz I'm free-associating.  Ask me later.  --dave

p.s.- good choice on MadCatz dreampads...  weren't they the easiest thing to work with?  --djb

[phantompower]

I understand your point completely.  I am at the point now where I am trying to maximize the use of the parts I already have...It sounds like I need to try some of these other solutions.

Chuck

P.S.  Man...that is one funny signature about your fiancee.  Very funny!!  

[phantompower]

Dave K et al.

What is the part number for the Molex connectors you are using?  Do you have to order them online or are there any stores that carry them.  These really are the best solution!

Thanks for the lead.

Chuck

[hyiu]

hi phantompower

you're the guy at leafstation.com ?!?!...
Just want to say your arcade is REALLY NICE !!!!!

I built a couple of joysticks (and hopefully my own cab sometime soon).  I downloaded some of your pics and I think I'll use them as artwork on the control panel like yours... (I hope you don't mind since you have them available for download...)

Just want to say Thanks and GREAT work on your cab.
(sorry... its not really related to the topic...)

- Henry.

[phantompower]

Henry,

Thanks for the kind words.  I am the owner and designer of this fine cabinet.

It was thanks to this website's examples and forums that made it possible.

Thanks again.

Chuck

[toilet]

Wow, what a great job. Seriously.

That is exactly what I want to do. I have a question though, was there any reason for only a 20" TV? I know those WEGA's can be pricey and that's understandable. I was hoping to put a 24" TV in mine, was there any physical reason stopping this from happening? Weight, size, etc?

[phantompower]

I have since removed the 20" and put a 27" SONY Trinitron in there.  It actually fit in the same chassis.

All I had to do was modify the glass bezel.

Perfect so far.

Chuck

[Dave_K.]

Phantompower,  I use 15 pin molex connectors (don't have the part number on me).  I just went to my local Fry's Electronics (in CA).

Bowmand1 (the other Dave) has a valid point in that you are almost asking for trouble running both sets of controllers in parallell (power draw).  You could also damage one or both consoles if one or both were connected and on at the same time.

Bowmand1, good thing you didn't call yourself "Dave" also with that icon and similar signiture ;-).  

-Dave

[Eddie_Fantastic]

Alternatively you could wire the joysticks/buttons to a jamma fingerboard and have a jamma connector for each pair of console controllers to give it that authentic arcade feel.
I did that on mine, may not look too authentic, but it works.

[bowmand1]

thanks Dave_K....  I've just been going by bowmand1 for so many things since college (that's the format that Michigan State put my name into for e-mail) that it seemed natural...  I also go by FunkMunky56 and yourmomsapunk...  but I decided to be mature here...  :-)

molex is good.  Especially if you want to go authentic.  But I don't have much in the way of molex laying around my shop (not very often used in industrial controls or scales),so I've never really gotten into 'em.  I do have a LOT of DB-style connectors, 9s, 15s, and 25s...  so I use those.  PLUS, I don't know if any of you have seen Amphenol Military-Style screw-lock connectors?  those are the bomb.  May not be authentic to arcades, but that's what I'm using for the quick-disconnects to my cooling fan harness from my power supply.  They come in all different pin counts... and you can got panel-mounted ones, or in-line (comes with cool rubber gaskets and lots of neat parts) only down side is that they're WAY expensive new.  But I get a discount, and I get used ones all the time.  :-)  and they're SO easy to solder to.    www.amphenol.com   military-style (or MS)

Alright.  Back to work, all of you!  stop reading arcade junk on company time, using company computers!  I see you!  Stop that!  hahahahaaaa!  --Dave

maybe I should sign these Dave_B from now on...  mwahaha

[phantompower]

OK Gents,

Thanks for the help!

The Molex connectors are ordered from Happ Controls and I will soon be on my way to some easy swapping for all of my arcade-fighting goodness!

Thanks again.  That's why this board kicks a@@.

Chuck

[max arcade maxaxaxx]

yo chuck...
remember i asked you to send me the pictures of capcom logo..and you did not..anyways...

why not go the easy way with mame,dreamcast,psx..

hack up 2 ps1 pads then buy psx to dc and pc convertors...for dreamcast...any convertor works perfect but for mame...make sure you get expensive onces that is USB and supports all 16 buttons..that does include the anolog buttons that are extra on ps1 pads..i have same setup...works perfect..and easiest you can ever do..no need to make different interface or you dont have to ipac and crap..wait a second...you have 2 panel..then dont buy the pc convertor..only the the dreamcast convertor....

only 12$ at    www.levelsix.com

also if you can please get me the capcom logo sign..the big yellow one ofcourse.thanks