Difficulty hitting diagonals

[Begbie80]

Looking for any possible fixes for this dilemma I'm having.  With my sticks it is very difficult pulling off certain moves like a Shuryuken.. actually it isn't difficult it's closer to impossible.  I've played Street Fighter in the arcade before and never had difficultly pulling off those moves.

I have a control panel that was custom built for me with what I believe are Happ Competition sticks (8 way) with a circle gate... any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[JDFan]

Wood or Metal Control Panel ? What size holes are cut in the CP and are the sticks centered properly in those holes -- Check the joystick when you move it to a diagonal and see if it is hitting the sides of the hole in the control panel before fully pushed.

[Guywiththegun]

Odd, I'm having the same exact issue right now with my Player 1 Happ Competition. I notice it mostly when trying to jump forward. I've done some research and this appears to be common. It turns out these Competition sticks were made to be an "in between" of 8 way and 4 way, so 4 way games aren't as bad. This also makes it so diagonals are harder to pull off.

Look into "IL Eurosticks". They appear to be older model, better Happ Competition Joysticks before Happ went to a new manufacturer. I'm contemplating ordering one myself, but I also hear you can get the Actuator used in those sticks and just put into the Happ ones for the same effect.

[paigeoliver]

It turns out these Competition sticks were made to be an "in between" of 8 way and 4 way, so 4 way games aren't as bad. This also makes it so diagonals are harder to pull off.

That isn't true at all. There were no multicades or the like back when these joysticks were designed. 4-way games shipped with 4-way sticks and 8-way games shipped with 8-way. If you needed an 8-way then you bought that if you needed a 4-way you bought that. Competitions were on everything back in the early 90s.

Street Fighter 2 originally shipped with wico microswitch sticks with bat-tops. Later versions of the games went to different Happ sticks. If you must switch to another Happ stick then use the Super, it is the best of their main 3, and has the highest list price even though it is usually on sale cheaper than the other ones.

[pyract]

Looking for any possible fixes for this dilemma I'm having.  With my sticks it is very difficult pulling off certain moves like a Shuryuken.. actually it isn't difficult it's closer to impossible.  I've played Street Fighter in the arcade before and never had difficultly pulling off those moves.

I have a control panel that was custom built for me with what I believe are Happ Competition sticks (8 way) with a circle gate... any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I had this problem once. On mine the problem was the circle actuator (the part that hits the micro switches) was installed upside down. The other side was a different size and could hit the diagonals just fine.

[harveybirdman]

Try some new sticks?  Most fighter players I know prefer the circle gate, but if you need to "feel" the diagonals there is the ocassional odd duck who prefers octagonal gates.

At the risk of sounding dickish, it is possible to get adapter plates and switch out sticks even if you didn't build it assuming the actuator and hole size that were already suggested aren't the issue.

[Guywiththegun]

It turns out these Competition sticks were made to be an "in between" of 8 way and 4 way, so 4 way games aren't as bad. This also makes it so diagonals are harder to pull off.

That isn't true at all. There were no multicades or the like back when these joysticks were designed. 4-way games shipped with 4-way sticks and 8-way games shipped with 8-way. If you needed an 8-way then you bought that if you needed a 4-way you bought that. Competitions were on everything back in the early 90s.

Street Fighter 2 originally shipped with wico microswitch sticks with bat-tops. Later versions of the games went to different Happ sticks. If you must switch to another Happ stick then use the Super, it is the best of their main 3, and has the highest list price even though it is usually on sale cheaper than the other ones.

Don't ask me, this was mentioned numerous times on this forum in similar threads. I assumed it was the reason people suggest the competition joysticks for a multi-purpose solution.

[Xiaou2]

It turns out these Competition sticks were made to be an "in between" of 8 way and 4 way, so 4 way games aren't as bad. This also makes it so diagonals are harder to pull off.

That isn't true at all. There were no multicades or the like back when these joysticks were designed. 4-way games shipped with 4-way sticks and 8-way games shipped with 8-way. If you needed an 8-way then you bought that if you needed a 4-way you bought that. Competitions were on everything back in the early 90s.

Street Fighter 2 originally shipped with wico microswitch sticks with bat-tops. Later versions of the games went to different Happ sticks. If you must switch to another Happ stick then use the Super, it is the best of their main 3, and has the highest list price even though it is usually on sale cheaper than the other ones.

 Im guessing your rage-rant  has left you blind to the post about changes in the New revision of the Competitions?

 I wouldnt know.. because Ive got the versions before any changes were made.


 After Wico microswitch sticks were being phased out...  there were many odd ball sticks that were being made by happ, and maybe a few others.   Happs sticks initially were horrible... and would self destruct in a very short time period.    The control wasnt very good either... such as in the case of the Ultimates.     The ultimates were the initially used replacements that were installed in many of the fighters.   If I recall,  they had a very pronounced square feeling gate to them  (not good for circular SF moves) ... and the travel was very long to activation.  (making moves in MK a lot more difficult).   

 The design caused a lot of strain on the plastic spacer... and the spacer would grind into dust... in a matter of a few months use... at most.

 The spacer doesnt wear evenly.  It wears down in such a way as to form a sort of "Shelf"... or basically.. a smaller diameter section on one side.   Once the spacer wears down to a certain degree...  the spacers reduced diameter section will start to get stuck or sink a bit... into the joystick base. It does not fit well this way .. and so it will feel stubborn.. and then at its worst.. completely stiff and unworkable.

 You can take the space out.. flip it over.. and use the other end... until that side wears too.  At that point... you either have to purchase a new spacer.. or buy a new stick.

 The wear also happens on the Comps.    But.. the comps have a far superior design,  that wears about a 10th of the rate of the ultimates.  A new comp might last a 3/4  to a full year of daily arcade abuse, before needing a new spacer.

 I believe there were a few oddball one-off prototype transitions.. between the Ultimate and the Comp..  before they got it pretty much down pat with the Comps design.


 As for the Supers... I cant stand em.    They are too stiff... and have too much friction.   The leaf style switches also were a problem.  Often switches metal leaf would get bend to much.. and become useless.


 I never had the Wico bat sticks.   But their balltop micros were pretty nice.

---

 My suggestion to the OP... is to make sure that the stick is assembled properly.
Not only could the actuator be inverted,  or worn out  ... but also, the e-clip could be put in the wrong shaft groove.

 Happs provides a diagram of the assembly with the purchase.  Probably can find it on their website as well.

 The other thing to check.. are to do with worn out microcwitches.   After a certain amount of uses.. these switches can become intermittent and or completely busted broke.   This usually happens to switches that are low-actuation force ...the quickest.  Springs wear and fatigue, and when that happens..  the mechanism no longer operates properly.

 That and possibly an intermittent soldier / connector clip problem.

 

[rpgposer]

You could try changing the sticks to a more "fighting" game type of stick like a Sanwa JLF.  In my opinion, they are great for stick movement games.

[pbj]

What you need to do is bend the switch levers so that they're more easily pressed by your joystick.  Flip your control panel over, break out the needle nose, and bend them all so they're closer to the joystick shaft.

[paigeoliver]

Im guessing your rage-rant  has left you blind to the post about changes in the New revision of the Competitions?

Correct, if the competition has changed then I am not aware of it. Although I also would never even consider actually purchasing a Competition. I always buy Supers or P360s and that is only when I can't find Wicos and I pretty much always find Wicos.

[Guywiththegun]

Correct, if the competition has changed then I am not aware of it. Although I also would never even consider actually purchasing a Competition. I always buy Supers or P360s and that is only when I can't find Wicos and I pretty much always find Wicos.

Why do you prefer the Supers? I have Supers on my old Hotrod SE and honestly I've never noticed any issues with diagonals after years of playing on it. I went with Competitions because that seems to be the most suggested, but man, the diagonals are killing me. Sometimes I'm SURE I'm hitting it and I'm still just jumping up or walking forward. Takes the fun out of the game. Thinking of swapping in my old Supers to give it a test run.

[RandyT]

The Competitions are considered a decent "all-around" stick, almost solely due to the fact that the diagonals are less sensitive.  This makes the occasional 4-way game more playable, even though it is an 8-way stick.

The Ultimates are OK for 8-way, but have very sensitive diagonals.  Absolutely horrible for 4-way games.  I can't attest to their longevity, as I have never used them for more than a month or so before ditching them for something better.

The Supers are also a good stick, but how they perform will depend on how you have the levers on the switches adjusted.  These will at least give you some flexibility to tweak them to your preference, unlike the "lever-less" switches used on the Competitions.

And finally, any joystick will wear as they are used.  If the Comps are a bit stiff, and they are new, that's probably the reason.  Rough them up a bit, and you'll likely find that the range of motion increases over some time, which will result in easier diagonals.

[paigeoliver]

They have a nice neutral feel that doesn't favor one game type over another. The thicker than average shaft means the handle won't get bent when Cletus Jr. hangs from the thing. Finally, because I have owned and repaired hundreds of games and I have never, ever, ever had to replace a single Happ Super.

Correct, if the competition has changed then I am not aware of it. Although I also would never even consider actually purchasing a Competition. I always buy Supers or P360s and that is only when I can't find Wicos and I pretty much always find Wicos.

Why do you prefer the Supers? I have Supers on my old Hotrod SE and honestly I've never noticed any issues with diagonals after years of playing on it. I went with Competitions because that seems to be the most suggested, but man, the diagonals are killing me. Sometimes I'm SURE I'm hitting it and I'm still just jumping up or walking forward. Takes the fun out of the game. Thinking of swapping in my old Supers to give it a test run.

[Guywiththegun]

Well I can't speak for OP, but my issues turned out to be 100% user error. I took the joystick apart and sure enough, the hole for the shaft was off center in the panel. The stick was hitting the edge of the hole I drilled before it could hit both switches to register an up/forward (unless you hit it just right).  I was sure I had it centered but guess not. Wow, I feel equal parts relieved and stupid. Off to play some celebratory Street Fighter 2 where I'll be jumping forward so much I'm sure I'll get crushed by the AI.

[UEDan]

Had the same problem:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151092.msg1578872.html#msg1578872

Turns out my sicks were not centered on the rest of the control unit thing. It never hit the wood or plexi.
A thin bead of hot glue on the issue direction fixed my problem.

[Xiaou2]

They have a nice neutral feel that doesn't favor one game type over another. The thicker than average shaft means the handle won't get bent when Cletus Jr. hangs from the thing. Finally, because I have owned and repaired hundreds of games and I have never, ever, ever had to replace a single Happ Super.

Correct, if the competition has changed then I am not aware of it. Although I also would never even consider actually purchasing a Competition. I always buy Supers or P360s and that is only when I can't find Wicos and I pretty much always find Wicos.

Why do you prefer the Supers? I have Supers on my old Hotrod SE and honestly I've never noticed any issues with diagonals after years of playing on it. I went with Competitions because that seems to be the most suggested, but man, the diagonals are killing me. Sometimes I'm SURE I'm hitting it and I'm still just jumping up or walking forward. Takes the fun out of the game. Thinking of swapping in my old Supers to give it a test run.

 The supers solve the spacer wear issue, by using a cone shaped spacer.   While its nice that there is less chance for wear... the design causes a lot more friction and resistance.  It makes the stick "Slow" and clunky.. especially in the middle area.     For a game like Galaga.. that might not be an issue.   But for a fighting game such as Mortal Kombat... where you need to do a lot of fast stick taps..  its straining and difficult.  It would be the equivalent of playing basketball with a good set of sneakers.. vs..  army combat boots.   The grace, speed / acceleration.. agility.. all reduced.

 Also, I personally found supers very difficult in regards to movement accuracy.  Most especially in fighting games.  With a game like SFII,  I will often have the character accidentally jump back or forward diagonally... when I am merely trying to walk.

 I worked in a busy mall arcade for 3 years.  Never once did I have a bent competition stick shaft.   Yeah, Ive seem people hanging heavy coats on them,  and kids trying to hang from them... but they are built to handle it.    Its a flippin quarter inch of hardened steel.  Probably could use it to climb a mountain with.   The typical failures were to do with an E-clip that may have popped off. Or the carriage bolts were loose - causing amplified leverage /alignment issues.

 As for the quip about Adjusting the Levers on supers leaf based switches...  I also disagree with having to do this.   These switches typically use very thin metal for the levers.  Once the shaft slams around enough... its just going to bend those levers back to where they used to be.

 Not only that... but as the levers are bent a few times... that thin metal will lose any little strength that it initially had (metal fatigue)... as well as it may possibly snap / break off.

[RandyT]

As for the quip about Adjusting the Levers on supers leaf based switches...  I also disagree with having to do this.   These switches typically use very thin metal for the levers.  Once the shaft slams around enough... its just going to bend those levers back to where they used to be.

 Not only that... but as the levers are bent a few times... that thin metal will lose any little strength that it initially had (metal fatigue)... as well as it may possibly snap / break off.

There is nothing "very thin" about the switch levers used on the modern Super joysticks.  They are actually some of the thickest I have seen.  There's also the option of flipping the actuator, in conjunction with the switch adjustment.  If you somehow manage to break the levers on them, you are doing it wrong.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Well I can't speak for OP, but my issues turned out to be 100% user error. I took the joystick apart and sure enough, the hole for the shaft was off center in the panel. The stick was hitting the edge of the hole I drilled before it could hit both switches to register an up/forward (unless you hit it just right).  I was sure I had it centered but guess not. Wow, I feel equal parts relieved and stupid. Off to play some celebratory Street Fighter 2 where I'll be jumping forward so much I'm sure I'll get crushed by the AI.

When mounting sticks dead center, I purchased this $2 template from Bob Roberts and I've never had an issue since.  Works great!


DeL

[Guywiththegun]

Damn! Where was that a couple months ago??

[pbj]

I always took out the shaft and traced the pattern of the switch housing onto the wood.... seemed obvious.



PS: Gotta love BS threads like this one.  All those posts, all those strong opinions, and the problem was a wonky hole.

[pyract]

I always took out the shaft and traced the pattern of the switch housing onto the wood.... seemed obvious.



PS: Gotta love BS threads like this one.  All those posts, all those strong opinions, and the problem was a wonky hole.

Actually the OP never got back to us.

[paigeoliver]

I can understand all that. However I also generally don't buy supers either. It is just my favorite of the 3 common happ sticks. I prefer to play my fighting games with sticks from the Wico family tree.

They have a nice neutral feel that doesn't favor one game type over another. The thicker than average shaft means the handle won't get bent when Cletus Jr. hangs from the thing. Finally, because I have owned and repaired hundreds of games and I have never, ever, ever had to replace a single Happ Super.

Correct, if the competition has changed then I am not aware of it. Although I also would never even consider actually purchasing a Competition. I always buy Supers or P360s and that is only when I can't find Wicos and I pretty much always find Wicos.

Why do you prefer the Supers? I have Supers on my old Hotrod SE and honestly I've never noticed any issues with diagonals after years of playing on it. I went with Competitions because that seems to be the most suggested, but man, the diagonals are killing me. Sometimes I'm SURE I'm hitting it and I'm still just jumping up or walking forward. Takes the fun out of the game. Thinking of swapping in my old Supers to give it a test run.

 The supers solve the spacer wear issue, by using a cone shaped spacer.   While its nice that there is less chance for wear... the design causes a lot more friction and resistance.  It makes the stick "Slow" and clunky.. especially in the middle area.     For a game like Galaga.. that might not be an issue.   But for a fighting game such as Mortal Kombat... where you need to do a lot of fast stick taps..  its straining and difficult.  It would be the equivalent of playing basketball with a good set of sneakers.. vs..  army combat boots.   The grace, speed / acceleration.. agility.. all reduced.

 Also, I personally found supers very difficult in regards to movement accuracy.  Most especially in fighting games.  With a game like SFII,  I will often have the character accidentally jump back or forward diagonally... when I am merely trying to walk.

 I worked in a busy mall arcade for 3 years.  Never once did I have a bent competition stick shaft.   Yeah, Ive seem people hanging heavy coats on them,  and kids trying to hang from them... but they are built to handle it.    Its a flippin quarter inch of hardened steel.  Probably could use it to climb a mountain with.   The typical failures were to do with an E-clip that may have popped off. Or the carriage bolts were loose - causing amplified leverage /alignment issues.

 As for the quip about Adjusting the Levers on supers leaf based switches...  I also disagree with having to do this.   These switches typically use very thin metal for the levers.  Once the shaft slams around enough... its just going to bend those levers back to where they used to be.

 Not only that... but as the levers are bent a few times... that thin metal will lose any little strength that it initially had (metal fatigue)... as well as it may possibly snap / break off.