Discussion: Ultracade and the Mame Trademark

[KC]

Hmmm, this seems to be the most intelligent discussion I've seen on the topic so far.

To add to the prior (commercial) use argument: Ever since the first X-Arcade hit the market it had the MAMEWorld logo on the box. Now the MAMEWorld logo always had thre MAME styled letters as part of text.

Surely this is prior commmercial use...? Amongst all the otjer use that's been out there for years.

KC

www.mameworld.net
You know it makes sense!

[emdkay]

Remember to send a certified letter as well.  Email can be "lost."

Good point - I'm already on it.

[APFelon]

Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person. He made his gambit, and it clearly came back to strike him in the backside. Perhaps it is time to make ours...

APf

[quarterback]

Remember to send a certified letter as well.

[quarterback]

Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person.

Amen brother!

[Fat_Trucker]

Received this response from him this afternoon after I raised a few questions about them already trying to bully vendors who had no links to the distribution or promotion of illegal roms in complete contradiction of his apparent love for the community.

You don

[walls83]

he has backed out of alot of statements hes made.  I want to find someone with an Ultracade and see what kind of emulator he is running.  I bet he just changed somethings in the MAME program.  Or he just took abunch of emulators and rolled them all up into one.  Also the FE that they use looks very familiar but I cant place it.

[RetroJames]

Received this response from him this afternoon after I raised a few questions about them already trying to bully vendors who had no links to the distribution or promotion of illegal roms in complete contradiction of his apparent love for the community.

You don

[Witchboard]

You don

[scottp]

WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.   

Mr Folly also is trying to extort money from me:

"Please contact me immeadiately to discuss your unlicensed use of our registrered trademarks. I would much rather come to a licensing agreement than to shut you down, but we must discuss immeadiately or we will have to pursue legal matters."

I replied to him before I read these messages.

"Hey David, I just got back from a short vacation with no email / internet. 
I have permission from Kelsey over at Oscar controls to use his logo.  On artwork there is an implied copyright from the artist and as long as he gives permission or is paid for the right to use it then it can be used.

Your threat above does come in direct confliction from what you stated on your website about "no desire to use the M.A.M.E name or logos, we simply wish to find ways to prevent illegal distribution of classic arcade games"  It seems like you also wish to profit from this by getting money out of sites like mine...

Looking forward to your response"

Scott Prior
www.mamemarquees.com

[mahuti]

ech....

[SirPoonga]

"Please contact me immeadiately to discuss your unlicensed use of our registrered trademarks. I would much rather come to a licensing agreement than to shut you down, but we must discuss immeadiately or we will have to pursue legal matters."

The funny thing is it isn't a registered trademark yet!

[RetroJames]

WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.

[SirPoonga]

You don

[SirPoonga]

WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.

[Crazy Cooter]

A MAME cab is just like an ipod.

[walls83]

"I am available to work with the community to ensure that this happens, and to help get more games made available to the community at a reasonable price."-ultracade website

Have you guys seen how much he charges for games.

[Chris]

"I am available to work with the community to ensure that this happens, and to help get more games made available to the community at a reasonable price."-ultracade website

Have you guys seen how much he charges for games.

[Fat_Trucker]

Nother one.

If we did not file this mark, someone else could have and then claimed it.

[Thenasty]

Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person. He made his gambit, and it clearly came back to strike him in the backside. Perhaps it is time to make ours...

APf

Let got the Ultracade Cabinets and MAME it

[SirPoonga]

Well, despite all of the white noise surrounding this topic, one thing has been made perfectly clear. I think it would be wise to "shout from the rooftops" that no one should do business with such an unethical person. He made his gambit, and it clearly came back to strike him in the backside. Perhaps it is time to make ours...

APf

Let got the Ultracade Cabinets and MAME it

Funny, but ultracade's main product is a kit to put in your existing jamma cabinet.

I know he's blaming mame for his sales slump, I think it is more of the fact of the prices.  Cut the price in half and you have something that looks attractive in a commercial environment.

[Crazy Cooter]

Emdkay:

[/size]

 You should send in your emailed conversation to slashdot.  They'll put it on the top of the page.  (good advertising for you and it will make the point on what this guy is trying to accomplish).  The readers over there can help a LOT in a situation like this.

[Fat_Trucker]

I don't think it computes that by attempting to eliminate MAME people still won't buy his products because they are priced way outside the resources of 99% of the hobbiest market.

I know they may have paid through the nose for the rights to the games that they distribute but those rights aren't worth the paper they are printed on if their products aren't competetively priced.

People who don't buy Ultracade aren't avoiding it because MAME cabs are cheaper, they are avoiding it because their prices are stratospherically unrealistic for the home market. Even without MAME as a competitor, how many people on these forums could afford to buy the cabinets and games at Ultracade prices?.....anyone?. People would simply switch to the much cheaper JAMMA/PCB market instead.

[Chris]

Has anyone gotten a response from Mr. Hagelshaw yet?

[dmsuchy]

This guy is insane, and I like the comparison of an Ipod and a MAME cab. Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally? What if you personally own a bunch of boards of various games? Don't ya legally own the game and can use it comercially or otherwise in a cab you built? And if this guy is just trying to stamp out piratcy of games, then why does he keep hitting up printers of marquees for cash? This guy is what we call a "jag-off" here in Chicago and is obviously talking out of his --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.

[KevSteele]

You know, the funny thing is that if he hadn't started this salvo of threatening letters and just waited until the Trademark was approved, we'd all be up the creek.

It's only the fact that his application was discovered while it's still pending that we have as much of a chance as we do of getting it thrown out...

[itismejs]

Does apple lie when they dont mention it will take 10,000 dollars to fill up a 20GB ipod using itunes?

[FractalWalk]

Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally?

Just to play devils' advocate, his point is that you can't do it legally. To play 4,000 games you would have to break the law. While I don't agree with his actions, I think the point is valid.

[Crazy Cooter]

Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally?

Just to play devils' advocate, his point is that you can't do it legally. To play 4,000 games you would have to break the law. While I don't agree with his actions, I think the point is valid.

Unless you owned 4000 boardsets...

This guy is insane, and I like the comparison of an Ipod and a MAME cab. Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally? What if you personally own a bunch of boards of various games? Don't ya legally own the game and can use it comercially or otherwise in a cab you built? And if this guy is just trying to stamp out piratcy of games, then why does he keep hitting up printers of marquees for cash? This guy is what we call a "jag-off" here in Chicago and is obviously talking out of his --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.

I call what he tried on Emdkay extortion.

[Daniel270]

It's a noble idea to stamp out piracy and such.... but a VERY POOR execution of that idea....

Might as well stamp out the console market while he's at it... might help boost his sales

[solfood]

his personal web site davidrfoley.com seems to have been slashdotted.

feel free to write him a letter though:

David R. Foley
1281 Wayne Avenue
San Jose, CA 95131
United States

And His Lawyer seems to be:
Lee Hagelshaw (Attorney of record)

LEE HAGELSHAW
LEE HAGELSHAW OF TECH LAW
350 TOWNSEND STREET SUITE 406
SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94107

Phone Number: (415) 615-9300
Fax Number: (415) 615-9301

[DarkKobold]

Well, I sent the following email to the trademark office. I suggest others do the same ...
There is a correct way to bring such things to the attention of the Trademark Office, and this is not it.

The constructive next step is to monitor the status of the application, and when it gets "published for opposition" then file an opposition [uspto.gov].
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmep/1500.htm#_Toc536249467

One convenient way to monitor the status of a pending US trademark application is by means of free software called Feathers [patents.com].
http://www.patents.com/feathers/

Thats from slashdot. Nicola needs to get his ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- together. BTW, to recap:
1. YOU DONT NEED TO FILE FOR A PATENT TO BE PROTECTED
2. COPYRIGHT != PATENT
3. IT IS NOT YET REGISTERED!

David Santoro actually asked the designer, and got permission to use the MAME logo on the tokens. SHE IS THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR. Yeesh. If anything, we should be emailing everyone using the MAME logo to protect them. They may be getting extorted as we speak.

[ROM: Spaceknight]

Guess he went after DreamArcades as well.

Link

[ROM: Spaceknight]

One more thing that could possibly be done in the interim is contact eBay and notify them that someone on their VERO program isn't who they claim to be...

[DreamArcades]

David Foley successfully lobbied Ebay to shutdown my Cocktail arcade kit auctions last night. He said I was using illegally using MAME as a keyword. Here

[mnm1200]

David Foley successfully lobbied Ebay to shutdown my Cocktail arcade kit auctions last night. He said I was using illegally using MAME as a keyword. Here

[shawnzilla]

Here is the situation as I see it (in broad strokes):

1) Mr. Foley has decided to make his stand and shakeup a community of hobbyists. I will not attempt to go inside of his head and guess at his personal motivations.

2) Whatever his motivations are (money, personal satisfaction, morals, etc...), he represents a threat to the hobby that we all know and love.

3) He has initiated a canvasing campaign towards the various hobby-related vendors in an attempt to exthort money.

The remedy?

1) There needs to be an unprecedented banding together of all involved: a) The Vendors (Oscar, Emdkay, Mamemarquees, Slikstik, etc...) b) The Programmers (Nicola, Aaron Giles, etc...) c) The authors & webmasters (shameless plug for Saint's book) d) The hobbyists e) The artist of the MAME logo

2) We need to find out if there's an attorney within the BYOAC community who would be able to serve as an advisor

3) Create a united opposition

I'm probably just re-stating the obvious.

[ROM: Spaceknight]

Just sent this to eBay's VeRO program:

Topics > Safe Trading > If Something Goes Wrong

[JODY]

Is it really wrong to advertise a cab that says it can play 4000 games, when it really can legally?

Just to play devils' advocate, his point is that you can't do it legally. To play 4,000 games you would have to break the law. While I don't agree with his actions, I think the point is valid.

Many have mentioned the 4000 games issue concerning you can't play 4000 games legally.  This is not true.  There are 1000's of freeware games for Windows and DOS.  They are free and legal.  A MAME cabinet is usually based on an Intel compatible CPU.

[mahuti]

He's forgetting about StarRoms. Those run on MAME just fine, as well as Robby Roto, etc. And those are perfectly legit. Just becaue there are bootleg CDs floating around, doesn't make CD players illegal. That same argument... 90% of MP3s are either ripped from peoples' own CDs or they're illegal. That doesn't make MP3 player software guilty of inciting piracy (i.e. iTunes, etc)