problems with coin door lights connected to CPU power?

[gnateye]

has anyone had any problems with connecting their coindoor lights to their computer powersupplies?

i have had mine that way for months, and i noticed this weekend that my second hard drive (the one with all the roms on it, and the one that had the power supply splitter connected to it) was making a funny noise like it was spinning down and starting up again every few minutes, the suddenly a lock up and on the restart, no second drive, my heart sank! i mean of course i have all my stuff backed up and everything but, i needed the space for the roms and all the work etc. so i opened up the pc, unplugged the power supply splitter and just pluged the HD in straight again, it came back no problem, but now im wondering if i did everything ok, and i am afraid to reconnect the coin door power feed for fear of screwing something up?

any idea, anyone run int osimilar problems?

[liche]

It depends on how much power you are actually delivering to your coin door lights.  I am using a separate computer power supply to run my aux. stuff in my cabinet (audio power amp, lights, etc...).  Your peripherals in your computer can hog up a lot of power, so you might just be on the edge.

If you insist on continuing to tap off the computer power, you could possibly replace the incadescent lamps in your coin holders with LEDs instead.  Happ makes drop in replacements or you could make your own with any color LED.  Just need to use a current limiting resistor with the LED.  Keeping LED current to about 10-15mA works well with most LEDs.

L

[gnateye]

i like your idea of a seperate power supply. im too paranoid now i dont wanna screw a computer that has been so good to me for some long

i can come across older powersupplies often at work so i will go that route, i may still replace the bulbs with the happs replacement though as my bulbs are kinda weak.

thanx for you help

[liche]

Just remember:

For standard ATX type power supply, you'll need to do a few things.

1.  Connect Green Wire to Common (Black)  This enables the power supply.

2.  Need to provide a load for +5 and/or +12V to maintain power supply regulation.  If not, the power supply will shut off.
Check with the manufacturer to see what the minimum load needs to be for your particular power supply.

In my instance, the power supply required a 2A load on the +5V for proper operation.  I accomplished this by using a 50W 2.49 ohm resistor.  Note, you'll have to mount these in a way to make them run somewhat cool as they will get hot!!!!!

L

[Vesper]

has anyone had any problems with connecting their coindoor lights to their computer powersupplies?

i have had mine that way for months, and i noticed this weekend that my second hard drive (the one with all the roms on it, and the one that had the power supply splitter connected to it) was making a funny noise like it was spinning down and starting up again every few minutes, the suddenly a lock up and on the restart, no second drive, my heart sank! i mean of course i have all my stuff backed up and everything but, i needed the space for the roms and all the work etc. so i opened up the pc, unplugged the power supply splitter and just pluged the HD in straight again, it came back no problem, but now im wondering if i did everything ok, and i am afraid to reconnect the coin door power feed for fear of screwing something up?

This sounds like a hard drive failure.  It almost certainly has nothing to do with you using computer power for lights.  Modern power supplies are "protected" in that if there is a short in any of the power, they will just shut themselves off.  And if your lights were working, there's not much else you could do wrong!  This doesn't really fix your problem, but look to the hard drive itself.  Your lights should be fine.

[gnateye]

but as soon as i unplegged the light power, everything went back to normal?

[liche]

If everything went back to normal when you unplugged the light it definitely seems like you are pulling too much load on your 12V line or whatever voltage you are running.

When you unplug your lights, you are reducing the current draw on the power supply and most likely bringing your voltage back up.

Think of your power supply as a water supply and the water pressure is your voltage output.  Current can be viewed as water flow.  The more pipes you add to your water supply output, the more water is going to flow.  Once you get to a certain point, the water pressure will drop (just like at home when flush the toilet and take a shower at the same time).

You can easily see this if you monitor your voltage output using a multimeter.  I'm pretty sure you are loading down your power supply which in return is lowered the output voltage.

Please note that this can be VERY BAD on computer components!!!!

Better get another supply to run your lamps off of.  Or heres another option:

1.  Go to your local electronics store (or radio shack if you prefer crap) and get a 120VAC Pri / 6.3VAC Sec transformer.  Wire this up to your 120VAC and the output to your lamp circuit.  Very easy and very cheap.
You could even ground one leg of your secondary for safety so your 6.3VAC isn't floating.  

L

[Vesper]

but as soon as i unplegged the light power, everything went back to normal?

I got the impression you did this after powering down.  Correct?  Flakey hard drives can resume working just from a power cycle.

As to the theory of draining the power supply:  A few 12V bulbs aren't going to pull a whole lot of power.  As long as your power suppy isn't from 1986, I don't see this being a problem unless there a short somewhere (power going to ground).

[gnateye]

definatly after a powerdown, i dont wanna surge thru my system.


this mac is old but im pretty sure it from post 1993.

i did try restartig a few times when i was having he problem orignally befor ethinking about the coindoor lights, that seemed to make no difference it would still just soujnd like it was powering down and starting up again a every few minutes, that was about 5 days ago, i havent heard this sound once since unplugging the lights. too much cooincidence for me

[Darkade]

I guess I got lucky.  I had an old AT power supply laying around from a computer that I rebuilt for a client so I just spliced the light wires to that and I've never had a problem.

[Carsten Carlos]

As long as you have made no shortage (but then the lights wouldn't be lighted, of course ), I don't believe that two  lamps can draw so much power that your powersupply can't stand it.

Sounds to me that something is wrong with your harddrive.
How many lamps/ 12V or 5V have you connected? You might try to get 6V lamps and put them on the 5V-line instead of the 12V, as your powersupply can stand more power on this.

I would never go with an extra AT/ATX-powersupply only for lamps - it isn't that easy as some might believe. If you don't draw enough power from them (and two lamps aren't enough power!), there is a good chance blowing it apart! I mentioned this in an older thread of a similiar kind. Anyway, even if you have one left, I'd prefer keeping it as spare part.

You might take a look if the powerplug of the splitter is tight enough - I once had a problem with that where the plug was pretty loosen. If the lamps would draw to much power, it would affect both of your harddrives.

[liche]

First off, to clear something up once and for all:

Previous person wrote-
"I would never go with an extra AT/ATX-powersupply only for lamps - it isn't that easy as some might believe. If you don't draw enough power from them (and two lamps aren't enough power!), there is a good chance blowing it apart! I mentioned this in an older thread of a similiar kind. "

As a power engineer, YOU CANNOT blow up a power supply by not connecting a large enough load to it.  I see this time and again on these mame groups and its just an old wives-tale.  Almost all computer supplies which are at least five years old or newer will simply shutdown if not enough load is present.  That statement is so ridiculous its silly.

Secondly, you never mentioned how much equipment you have in your computer.  Of course, if it is only your one harddrive that is crapping out, chances are its the harddrive thats bad.

L  

[Carsten Carlos]

Liche wrote:

First off, to clear something up once and for all:

As a power engineer, YOU CANNOT blow up a power supply by not connecting a large enough load to it.  I see this time and again on these mame groups and its just an old wives-tale.  Almost all computer supplies which are at least five years old or newer will simply shutdown if not enough load is present.  That statement is so ridiculous its silly.

Don't know what this has to do with a power engineer (if this is to impress me - sorry, doesn't work, I got some electronic skills myself, thanks), let us clear this the right way up as you suggested:

Of course, a modern powersupply (ATX) should shut down due to his security circuits. Though you can't rely that every cheap powersupply you can get will actually do this.  

Second, why are you so sure that he won't use a over five years old ps for lightening his coindoor? There is a good chance that I would find a 8-years-old PS somewhere deep in the cellar, and of course I wouldn't use a brandnew expensive PS just for some stupid lamps! What I can't get, why do you classify this as an old wive-tale and as ridiculous while mentioning this would only apply to five years and newer powersupplies?

To be on the safe side, maybe you'll find the following on your PS:

Voltage                  __Current (in Amperes)__
Regulation  Nominal V.  Min      Max    Abs.Max    Variance
+5VDC          + 5.0        1.5      20.0      -          +-2%
+12VDC        +12.25    1.0      5.0      7.0        +-2%
+12VDC(Aux) +12.25    0.0      5.0      7.0        +-2%
-5VDC          - 5.0        0.0      0.5      -          +-5%
-12VDC          -12.0        0.0      1.0      -          +-5%

Don't know from which PS this was (only an example), but the manufacturer states the minimum current needed on both the 5V and 12V-lines.
Of course, you've to find out yourself what happens when you go below this - voltage might just vary, PS may burn up or just shut down. (which would make it useless for your lamps, too)

If it is only for the lamps, you could always use one of this little $5 universal AC-adapters as they don't have such problems.


Problem with old tales is, that there is always some kind of truth in it, so please be careful before you call them silly.

[gnateye]

so i can just use a little universal adapter from radio shack?

splice the ends to the wires to the coin door lights an i would be set?


this sounds like the easiest way. is it?

[Chris]

For that matter, don't we all have a spare power cube from some long-lost piece of equipment somewhere?

When testing my coin door, I used a Radio Shack universal set on 6Vto power the 6V lamps that came with the door.  For permanent installation, I used a 5V wire from the PC's power supply (the 12V from that connector powers 2 fans in the top of the cab) and I've never had any problems with it.

--Chris

[gnateye]

thats how mine was, i bought a 4 wire pc power cable from radio shack, i tested both and the 12v wire was the one that lit the bulbs, so i bought a y adapter from radio shack that connects to the power wire and gives you 2 connectors, i cut off the 5v and just used the 12v to power the lights

worked with no problems for a few weeks befor the drive started making all the spin down sounds and stuff, i may try connecting the power wire to a different spot on the line not so close to the HD, maybe that will make a difference, plus i'll make sure its good and tight on there too.

now abou the universal radio shack power adapter method, do you nee any special anything between the wires and the bulbs?

[liche]

As a power engineer, YOU CANNOT blow up a power supply by not connecting a large enough load to it.  I see this time and again on these mame groups and its just an old wives-tale.  Almost all computer supplies which are at least five years old or newer will simply shutdown if not enough load is present.  That statement is so ridiculous its silly.

Don't know what this has to do with a power engineer (if this is to impress me - sorry, doesn't work, I got some electronic skills myself, thanks), let us clear this the right way up as you suggested:

>>>>>>>>>>As power engineer, I design switching power supplies for a living.  Much more experience with them than just electronic skills.


Of course, a modern powersupply (ATX) should shut down due to his security circuits. Though you can't rely that every cheap powersupply you can get will actually do this.  

>>>>>>Actually, you WILL NEVER blow up a power supply of this type when running no load.  At worst case, your voltage will be out of regulation, however the power supply will not be damaged.  However, in most cases, the power supply won't work period.  Perhaps this is where that myth began with - someone plugged in a power supply with no load and couldn't read any output therefore he/she assumed the supply was killed because of no load.

Second, why are you so sure that he won't use a over five years old ps for lightening his coindoor? There is a good chance that I would find a 8-years-old PS somewhere deep in the cellar, and of course I wouldn't use a brandnew expensive PS just for some stupid lamps!

>>>>>>>>>Age should not matter. Old as well as new power supplies are built upon the same switching topologies and even without complex protection circuits (older supplies) the supply will not self-destruct under no load.

>>>>>And how to justify claiming brandnew power supplies are expensive.  For what they are, they are dirt cheap.  Plus, any drive around the neighborhood during a trash day will find an old computer with an old power supply.

 What I can't get, why do you classify this as an old wive-tale and as ridiculous while mentioning this would only apply to five years and newer powersupplies?

>>>>>>That was my error.  New power supplies (ATX type) have protection circuitry which shuts down the supply under no loads.  Older supplies may or may not have this protection.  But all in all, even under operation, the power supply will NOT burn itself up.

To be on the safe side, maybe you'll find the following on your PS:

Voltage                  __Current (in Amperes)__
Regulation  Nominal V.  Min      Max    Abs.Max    Variance
+5VDC          + 5.0        1.5      20.0      -          +-2%
+12VDC        +12.25    1.0      5.0      7.0        +-2%
+12VDC(Aux) +12.25    0.0      5.0      7.0        +-2%
-5VDC          - 5.0        0.0      0.5      -          +-5%
-12VDC          -12.0        0.0      1.0      -          +-5%

Don't know from which PS this was (only an example), but the manufacturer states the minimum current needed on both the 5V and 12V-lines.
Of course, you've to find out yourself what happens when you go below this - voltage might just vary, PS may burn up or just shut down. (which would make it useless for your lamps, too)

>>>>>>>>>I'll agree two out of three.  The voltage may indeed vary, or it may just shutdown, but it will never burn up.


If it is only for the lamps, you could always use one of this little $5 universal AC-adapters as they don't have such problems.

>>>>>>Agreed.  This work fine.  Cheaper yet it just to replace your bulbs with LEDs as they'll pull much less current from your supply.

Problem with old tales is, that there is always some kind of truth in it, so please be careful before you call them silly.

>>>>>>>>>Well, it is kind of pointless to tell everyone that the supply may blow up.  The only worry you should have it whether or not you have the correct minimum load on these power supplies.  No need to make someone paranoid for no reason thinking they're supply  may blow up if not connected right.

L

[Chris]

thats how mine was, i bought a 4 wire pc power cable from radio shack, i tested both and the 12v wire was the one that lit the bulbs, so i bought a y adapter from radio shack that connects to the power wire and gives you 2 connectors, i cut off the 5v and just used the 12v to power the lights

So you don't actually know the volatge on the lamps?  Pull one of the lamps and look for a marking on it showing what kind of lamp it is; there should be a 2 or 3 digit number printed on it somewhere.  Go to http://www.happcontrols.com/lighting/91003700.htm and see what the actual voltage is.

now abou the universal radio shack power adapter method, do you nee any special anything between the wires and the bulbs?

As long as the voltage and wattage of the adapter is correct for the lamps, you'll be fine.  I hooked mine directly to the bulbs during testing.

[gnateye]

i'll check that whe3n i get home, basically whebn i was testing it (on an old computer, not the one in question ) i hooked up the 5v and got nothing, i hooked up the 12v and got light, i went by that.


does anyone have a link or a part number for the happs LED replacements? i have been tyring to find it on their site, but their search blows.

any help would be appreciated

[Chris]

does anyone have a link or a part number for the happs LED replacements? i have been tyring to find it on their site, but their search blows.

http://www.happcontrols.com/lighting/91116200.htm

and

http://www.happcontrols.com/lighting/91115700.htm

Again, you'll need to know your lamp number.

--Chris