Author Topic: Finished my CP!!! (Read 6550 times)

CCB0x45 · « **on:** January 05, 2005, 07:40:27 am »

Been working on my CP about a week, its nothing special but im proud of it, considering I have no wood working skills at all.
Its 4 player cause its going in my Frat House, and its got 2 Act Lab TV guns to go with it for the final cabinet... Been wiring it all night tonight to an IPAC4. We are gonna hit up some serious golden tee (pc version) tourneys on it! BTW I have House of the Dead 2 and Virtua Cop 2 for PC, are there any other good PC lightgun games besides the mame ones?

paigeoliver · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2005, 07:51:30 am »

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but player 3 and 4 are not supposed to have angled joysticks. It is a mistake that a few BYOAC members made, and then it got copied over and over again by other BYOAC members.

No real game is like that. None.

Panel looks great except for that.

versapak · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2005, 08:09:08 am »

Quote

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but player 3 and 4 are not supposed to have angled joysticks. It is a mistake that a few BYOAC members made, and then it got copied over and over again by other BYOAC members.

No real game is like that. None.

I angled my sticks, not by mistake, but because they work better that way. I had several people try it out, and everyone preferred up to be forward from their standing position.

No real game is like that, but then no real game has a control panel like most of these custom made ones either. Most those 4 player arcade machines seemed to have been made with a floor space concern, and not a comfort one.

That being said...

It may be different on a panel such as the OP's. On my panel, I have players 3 & 4 positions cut at 45

mozzer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2005, 08:39:09 am »

Quote

No real game is like that. None

Who cares? He never said he was patterning it off of a real game.

Kudos man. It looks great!

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2005, 08:58:21 am »

Looks great man and I prefer the 45 degree angles on the 3rd and 4th player but....

won't the corner be jabbing the frat boys in the nads?

Either way, great job!

RayB · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:16:09 am »

The reason people like Paige point this out is because of the one thing people overlook. The MONITOR doesn't change orientation, therefore on the MONITOR, "UP" will always be the same orientation, just as LEFT and RIGHT also will be the same, regardless what angle a person stands at.

THEREFORE "UP" on an angled joystick is actually pointing at an angle to the monitor's orientation, which probably is more like "UP-RIGHT".

Your friends might not notice at first try, but give them a while of play of something like a shooter or over-head scroller on the P1 position, then make them play on P3 or P4. See if they don't suddenly feel like they can't quite move the player quite right anymore...

~Ray B.

versapak · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:24:55 am »

Quote

Your friends might not notice at first try, but give them a while of play of something like a shooter or over-head scroller on the P1 position, then make them play on P3 or P4. See if they don't suddenly feel like they can't quite move the player quite right anymore...

How many shooters and overhead scrollers are 4 player anyway?

Neither I, nor any of my friends, have any problem playing gauntlet. When a person is playing a console game, and they are sitting to the left side of the TV, do they hold their controller diagonally? No, because they know up is the position forward from the direction they are facing. I found the same to be true of the arcade cab. Players found it MUCH more comfortable to have the controller match the angle they were standing in.

quarterstringer · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2005, 03:59:54 pm »

Quote

Players found it MUCH more comfortable to have the controller match the angle they were standing in.

I agree with this, I think the shape of the control panel determines if the joysticks should be angled or not. I have 45

Trimoor · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2005, 04:10:10 pm »

Quote from: paigeoliver on January 05, 2005, 07:51:30 am

No real game is like that. None.

What about x-men 6 player? Gauntlet? Simpsons?
They all look like angled controls to me.

CCB0x45 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2005, 04:16:35 pm »

We did do a cardboard mockup and my friends thought it was fine, and im not really worried about people adjusting to an angle, they are meatheads in my frat but that much of meat heads. We left the corners straight like that because we havnt built the cab yet so we think it might fit down right inside of it and just be wide, but the corner doesnt matter at all if you have arms longer than a toddler anyways. And another note on the angle things, golden axe's 4 player controls the 3rd and 4th player are completely 90 degrees from the tv... so anythings gotta be better than that.

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2005, 04:41:04 pm »

Quote from: CCB0x45 on January 05, 2005, 04:16:35 pm

...but the corner doesnt matter at all if you have arms longer than a toddler anyways...

True-dat, I have really long arms, but that's not all...

Either way great job, and it is true A LOT of arcade cabs had angled 3-4 players.

RayB · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:05:20 pm »

I don't like arguing about this. I think in essence it probably doesn't hurt to have them angled... In the end it's what you prefer. So doesn't matter.

BUT to the last poster, Gauntlet did NOT have them angled!

Jabba · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:10:28 pm »

Quote from: CCB0x45 on January 05, 2005, 07:40:27 am

Been working on my CP about a week, its nothing special but im proud of it, considering I have no wood working skills at all.
Its 4 player cause its going in my Frat House, and its got 2 Act Lab TV guns to go with it for the final cabinet... Been wiring it all night tonight to an IPAC4. We are gonna hit up some serious golden tee (pc version) tourneys on it! BTW I have House of the Dead 2 and Virtua Cop 2 for PC, are there any other good PC lightgun games besides the mame ones?

Hey CCB, I think that CP looks GREEEAAAAT!! Good work for a weeks work of effort!

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:10:41 pm »

Quote from: RayB on January 05, 2005, 05:05:20 pm

I don't like arguing about this. I think in essence it probably doesn't hurt to have them angled... In the end it's what you prefer. So doesn't matter.

BUT to the last poster, Gauntlet did NOT have them angled!

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:20:57 pm »

Here is another picture of the Simpsons.

RacerX · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:25:16 pm »

Quote from: XtraSmiley on January 05, 2005, 05:10:41 pm

Whachu talking about Willis? That's 90 degrees from the monitor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't get more angled than a RIGHT ANGLE!

It isn't 90 degrees from the monitor. See this post.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,29287.msg246302.html#msg246302

RayB · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:27:35 pm »

Yeah the players may be standing at 90' but which way is UP on the joystick?

Look at this Gauntlet overlay. Look at where it says "UP" above each joy, even for P3 and P4:

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:31:59 pm »

Yes I see what you mean, BUT they are angled b/c the person stands where facing up for them is facing the other player.

RayB · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:37:27 pm »

. How do you know which way the joystick is oriented? You can't know this strictly by looking at the button placement.

(sorry, I hope Im not being an ass by continuing this further....)

versapak · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:40:07 pm »

It is all about the individual, and what works best for them.

There is NO right or wrong. It doesn't matter one bit how any arcade machine had their sticks, unless you are trying to exactly recreate that one machine.

I don't play many top down games like gauntlet, and I can concede that a 45

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2005, 05:55:56 pm »

Quote from: RayB on January 05, 2005, 05:37:27 pm

. How do you know which way the joystick is oriented? You can't know this strictly by looking at the button placement.

(sorry, I hope Im not being an ass by continuing this further....)

OK, you are not talking about The Simpsons right? Because it is clear they are 45, right? As for Gauntlet, it is simple. The sticks are installed any which way the guy grabs them out of the box and puts them in. He/she then attaches the up in the same place as "up" is put on the CPO (towards the screen). The person holds the stick with left in his hand being up for player 3 and the direction right being up for player 4. If you've ever played Gauntlet on the machine I can tell you that this is how people hold the stick. What does that mean? Well, not much. I guess it just means that there are arcade machines with 45 degree handles (ala The Simpsons) and there are others that are not! Hey I'm glad you argued your point here and everyone on BYOAC is so friendly. Was this another board and things could have gotten ugly!

Again, that is a great control panel. If you look on the projects thread and see the one me and my friend built, you would know that I would kill to have your wood working skills! Good job and keep up the good work.

quarterstringer · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2005, 06:55:46 pm »

Here's a better look at a Simpsons CP.
If it doesn't show up, here's the link to the site

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2005, 06:57:56 pm »

Quote from: XtraSmiley on January 05, 2005, 05:55:56 pm

OK, you are not talking about The Simpsons right? Because it is clear they are 45, right?

Wrong.

Sticks 3 and 4 are actually at almost 90 degrees on both Simpsons panels.
You can tell that by looking at the buttons.
I'm not sure which direction is UP on the joystick, as you CAN'T tell from the button orientation.
They are NOT at 45 degrees though.
UP is either toward the center of the CP, or directly toward the monitor.

My guess would be that UP on both end sticks is directly toward the monitor--just like Gauntlet.

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2005, 07:58:53 pm »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

YIKES!

OK, Well played my friend! I guess I am WRONG! Well, the only thing left now is to say is CCB0x45, good cp!

paigeoliver · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2005, 09:23:28 pm »

Yep, try as hard as you like, but you aren't going to find an ORIGINAL game that angled the joysticks.

Games that did not angle them.

Simpsons
Gauntlet
Gauntlet 2
Quartet
TMNT
TMNT 2
Sunset Riders
X-Men (4 player)
X-Men (6-Player)
D&D Tower of Doom
D&D Shadow over Mystara
Cowboys of Moo Mesa

Games that did angle them.

None.

Rocky · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2005, 10:40:06 am »

This is a really good discussion.

I think many people do the angled joysticks thinking that there were games that did it that way and played well.

_Iz- · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2005, 06:07:22 pm »

Quote from: Rocky on January 06, 2005, 10:40:06 am

This is a really good discussion.

I think many people do the angled joysticks thinking that there were games that did it that way and played well. In reality, they didn't.

I know that I can't play Q*bert with a straight mounted joystick. I have no problem on the keyboard with the arrows. On a straight mounted stick, my mind just can't adjust.

In truth, you can make it anyway you want Whatever works for you. But, many people here do what has already been done, since we've never built arcade machines before.

Honestly, I assumed that all those huge 4 player panels had angled joys on them.

BTW, nice panel! Enjoy!

Rocky

Q-Bert is easy to fix to make it playable with a standard joystick - just remap mame to accept only the diagonals for the directions instead or regular up/down/left/right...

Gunstar Hero · « **Reply #27 on:** January 06, 2005, 10:45:21 pm »

You can always tell by the bolt locations.

shmokes · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2005, 12:30:43 pm »

Quote from: paigeoliver on January 05, 2005, 09:23:28 pm

Yep, try as hard as you like, but you aren't going to find an ORIGINAL game that angled the joysticks.

Qbert
Congo Bongo

nipsmg · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2005, 01:34:53 pm »

OK I'm going to try to explain this again for the millionth time.

Unless you're a complete mental midget, there's pretty much NO REASON why ANYONE shouldn't be able to play with angled joysticks.

Case in point:

Get 4 people. Sit them in front of a TV playing Xbox (Halo or something, who cares what they're playing). Watch how they hold their joysticks.

They usually hold them DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THEM, even if they're at an angle to the tv. You mean to tell me when playing Xbox or Nintendo or whatever that if you're at a 70 degree angle to the TV you're going to nearly break your wrists trying to keep your controller perpendicular to the tv? Absolutely not!

And no, it doesn't matter how close you are to the TV either, because we used to play super bomberman at my friends house and sit on the floor in front of his bed. The amount of space between the bed and the tv was just about enough for 14 year olds to sit indian style and play. and with 4 of us, NONE of us were perfectly straight in front of the tv.

It all comes down to preference. I'd rather have the joysticks angled, because if I'm playing a game, I want UP in RELATION TO ME to be up. I don't want to have to push sideways to go up, it's rediculous.

--NipsMG

armax · « **Reply #30 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:14:40 pm »

I agree. Adapting if fairly simply (unless you've got the eye-hand coordination of a mammal without opposable thumbs). Controls are relative to the gameplay itself and not the position of the controls in comparison to the screen.

Tokey · « **Reply #31 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:20:25 pm »

Try it once then and you'll end up remaking your CP. Playing on an arcade is not the same as having an xbox controller in your had. Up is always towards the top of the screen, not the corners. You're telling me that it makes sense to push them at a 45 degree angle to get them to to register as straight up is intuitive? I give you 3 days of actual playing before you redo it.

Tokey · « **Reply #32 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:22:50 pm »

According to your console controller theory, "UP" on player 1 and 4 should be directly pointing at one another on this CP since that is where the player stands.

See? Your theory is wrong. You sir are wrong. Time to redo that CP.

Scott84 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:23:14 pm »

Mental Midgets? Why would you even say such a thing! nipsmg ?

versapak · « **Reply #34 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:55:17 pm »

My control panel has had them mounted at 45

SOAPboy · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2005, 05:59:18 pm »

Quote from: Tokey on January 07, 2005, 05:20:25 pm

Try it once then and you'll end up remaking your CP.

armax · « **Reply #36 on:** January 08, 2005, 12:11:56 am »

It's funny, I'm willing to bet the naysayers have never even used angled controls (because remember, no arcade games have had them). Lot's of presumptions without actual experience. It seems the people who have built or played them don't seem to have problem....so is there a problem? This is about as bad as a group of people arguing over which color is better....

Goz · « **Reply #37 on:** January 08, 2005, 12:55:39 am »

Red definitely red

XtraSmiley · « **Reply #38 on:** January 08, 2005, 01:03:54 am »

Quote from: Gozur on January 08, 2005, 12:55:39 am

Red definitely red

F-you, you stupid chess player!

MiKman · « **Reply #39 on:** January 08, 2005, 01:19:48 am »

I remember playing gauntlet years ago and I absolutely hated being player 3 or 4 my neck got crooked and it absolutely made no sense to push right (or left) to go up. My guess is that the arcade machines were made like that because they needed to maintain a specific footprint size so that arcades could cram more cabinets in. Maybe it makes sense to some people, maybe it is "correct". I think when you are building your own cabinet then do what you want, make the panel wide as you want, put the joysticks wherever the heck you want. You didn't make a "mistake" like Paige has said, it's your cabinet and it works for you so it's absolutely correct. Nice job BTW.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #40 on:** January 09, 2005, 08:20:48 am »

Some of the game companies (Atari, Sega, Konami, etc) spent lots of money on R&D, and if angled joysticks were better than these companies would have used them.

versapak · « **Reply #41 on:** January 09, 2005, 09:35:11 am »

Quote

Some of the game companies (Atari, Sega, Konami, etc) spent lots of money on R&D, and if angled joysticks were better than these companies would have used them.

Yeah right.

Maybe for their big motorized machines, but not on regular cabs. There was a formula that worked for arcades, and everybody used it.

It is a matter of preference, and what works for the individual building the cab. I built a cab to play a huge variety of games, and I found the angle to be far more comfortable. In my design, I was not at all concerned about floor space, which was a concern for machines that had to fit into full arcades. They couldn't plan for having the players standing at a 45

armax · « **Reply #42 on:** January 09, 2005, 12:11:13 pm »

Quote from: paigeoliver on January 09, 2005, 08:20:48 am

Some of the game companies (Atari, Sega, Konami, etc) spent lots of money on R&D, and if angled joysticks were better than these companies would have used them.

Specualtion at best (and very thin I might add).

RayB · « **Reply #43 on:** January 09, 2005, 03:25:47 pm »

yeah, build your CP upside down so that you have to hang from the rafters to play!

darkmavis · « **Reply #44 on:** January 09, 2005, 03:31:35 pm »

haye, cmon its only for player 3-4 who cares about them right ? 1-2 is where its at


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