Author Topic: New Product: The $19.95 KeyWiz Eco 2 (Read 12135 times)

RandyT · « **on:** November 17, 2004, 01:25:17 am »

Introducing the FIRST and ONLY feature packed Keyboard Encoder to break the $20.00 price mark!!

We sell some higher-end stuff at GroovyGameGear that tends to be geared toward folks with means, but we also try to put our products within reach of those who aren't quite as fortunate.

One of the most important parts is the encoder that interfaces the controls to a computer. Unfortunately, if one's means are limited, it's time for the dismal and often unrewarding task of hacking a keyboard.

We've been down that road ourselves, and know all too well the disappointment of having spent 6-hours on the project, only to have a very limiting and mediocre performing result at the end.

So we set out to make an encoder with all of the advanced features of the KeyWiz encoders (32 programmable, non-ghosting, non-blocking inputs with shift capabilities, etc) but at a price that is nearly half that of other offerings on the market. It also needed to be a lot easier to work with than a gutted keyboard, meaning labeled connection points and a hole layout that can be used directly, or with an optional 40-pin IDE style header.

The KeyWiz Eco 2 is the result, and we got there by re-designing the Eco board to be no larger than necessary, and by ordering components in very high quantities just to get the price breaks. But that still didn't put the price where we wanted it to be, therefore the rest had to come right out of our pockets. So, consider this offering our holiday gift to the community.

Thanks for all the support in the past year and a half. The constant encouragement of our customers and others in the community are what keeps us moving forward, and it's deeply appreciated.

The KeyWiz Eco 2 is available now at the GroovyGameGear store, and comes with a 6' PS/2 cable. Watch for more new products from GGG very shortly.

RandyT

*Edit*

No-Solder Version is now available! Picture added.

CenturionFive · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:36:34 am »

Can a 40pin IDE connector be soldered (by the purchaser) to allow the use of an IDE type cable?

Thanks,

Cen5

Vicious · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:44:08 am »

Quote from: CenturionFive on November 17, 2004, 02:36:34 am

Can a 40pin IDE connector be soldered (by the purchaser) to allow the use of an IDE type cable?

Thanks,

Cen5

"It also needed to be a lot easier to work with than a gutted keyboard, meaning labeled connection points and a hole layout that can be used directly, or with a 40-pin IDE style header."

mahuti · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2004, 03:23:53 am »

I want a board that's cheap enough for me to buy multiples of... so that i can put them on my swappable control panels.

I don't know much about PS/2 cables (sorry I'm more of a USB guy)... As long as one is plugged in when the computer is started, I can hot swap them later right?

Please forgive my ignorance.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2004, 07:03:07 am »

Looks great Randy. Much appreciated.

More work for my encoder pages

For those who can never find stuff on the GGG pages (you know who you are):

The main description is here and the direct link to buy one is here.

Having said that, while you are having a hard time finding stuff on GGG, be sure to look at all the other products, because GGG has a lot of other cool offerings (Prodigy joys, top-fire prodigies, Shazaaam! adapters, etc.)

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2004, 07:15:43 am »

Well, the way you really want to do this is to solder an IDE header on the board and then either run cut hard drive cables or run a cut HD cable into CAT5, DB25, DB36, or Molex connectors. This is a cheaper solution, and avoids all possible problems.

Quote from: mahuti on November 17, 2004, 03:23:53 am

I don't know much about PS/2 cables (sorry I'm more of a USB guy)... As long as one is plugged in when the computer is started, I can hot swap them later right?

The basic answer is yes, but it's not recommended. Theoretically, you have +5V and Ground both going through that connection and you could create a short and blow the motherboard fuse disabling the PS/2 port. Having said that, I and others have done it hundreds of times, and I have never heard of anyone having a problem with it.

Here's more info from my keyboard hacks page:

The simplest solution is to hot-swap between your computer keyboard and your keyboard hack. I asked Andy Warne about this and he said that theoretically there is a danger in this, but he had done it at least a hundred times setting up the I-PAC and never had any problems. I also had tried it several times with no problems before I asked him. Digi-Key (among others) sells an M-F keyboard extension cable which will allow you to do this without crawling around behind the computer.

Also:

Tip: if a keyboard hack goes wrong, i.e., the 5 volt supply is grounded, the motherboard keyboard port will appear to have died instantly. This is because most motherboards supply the 5 volts through a tiny fuse which blows rather easily. While expensive to professionally replace, the fuse can pretty safely be wired across, saving an apparently useless board. Keep in mind that this now leaves the other areas of the motherboard vulnerable, so if the original problem is not corrected or another faulty keyboard hack is connected, more extensive damage may occur. Also, many A-Open brand motherboards use a resettable circuit breaker in lieu of a fuse on the keyboard and USB ports. While A-Open typically offers a good selection of features per dollar and their boards have been well-rated in most reviews, I would not recommend buying a motherboard solely because of this feature. However, if you like their products, this is something to consider and maybe something to look for in other manufacturer

mahuti · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2004, 07:39:08 am »

Hey thanks for the information.

I have swappable panels right now that use a 36 pin connector, but the insertion force is too high for my taste. Plus I'm lazy and I don't care too much about cheap... with this hobby there are some things I can go cheap on, and others I'd rather put money in. If I could spend $80 to buy 4 of these and simply connect a PS/2 cable every time I swapped them, I'd be a happy camper.

Can't connect a trackball & spinner to these though (right?) So I guess I'm out, now that I think about it.

Hoagie_one · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2004, 07:42:19 am »

does that mean there is going to be a close out sale on Eco 1's?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2004, 08:05:49 am »

Quote from: mahuti on November 17, 2004, 07:39:08 am

I have swappable panels right now that use a 36 pin connector, but the insertion force is too high for my taste.

I assume you mean molex connectors - DB36's have very little insertion force and are quick if you don't attach the thumbscrews. (If they don't fall apart). CAT5 is simple and quick also, but you would probably need 4 per panel . . .

Quote

If I could spend $80 to buy 4 of these and simply connect a PS/2 cable every time I swapped them, I'd be a happy camper.

You can do that.

Quote

Can't connect a trackball & spinner to these though (right?) So I guess I'm out, now that I think about it.

Well (I really wish this were in a different thread) - if $80 for four Eco's isn't out of the ballpark, I suppose you could spend $120 for four Ultimarc Mini-PACs and have the trackball and inputs on one USB cable like you prefer.

That said, I would think you might have dual spinner or dual trackball panels and a minipac can only control one trackball. (And you're paying extra for unused capability on your SF panel.)

Another option is to use the Eco2's and use either an opti-pac or www.oscarcontrols.com's USB mouse hack for your trackball, but then you have a PS/2 and at least one USB cable to connect per panel, if that's a problem.

Tritoch84 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:02:48 am »

Jeez, you guys must be RICH or something! This is fantastic news! I was going to make my parents a vantage desktop cab, but came into a hnagout over to blow alot of money (for me) on a encoder, or learn to do a keyboard hack.

This is GREAT news, and with the computer i'm messing with (which predates USB by a longshot) the hookups are great! I'm picking one up, I can tell you that.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:09:19 am »

Quote from: Tritoch84 on November 17, 2004, 10:02:48 am

Jeez, you guys must be RICH or something!

Leave ME out of this!!! Mahuti must be rich. I'm the one telling him to use one encoder and DB36's or CAT5.

kcorcoran · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:17:38 am »

hey groovygear.. can you please just up the price by $2-3 and install some screw terminals on the board?

buying the screw header terminals in bulk and the mass soldering couldn't add that much to the price could it?

i'd rather pay $25 for an encoder i can screw stripped wires into then pay $20 for it, $5-10 retail for a header and spend an hour soldering risking making a mistake and ruining the board.

please please please.. add the screw in terminal blocks.

keith
a previous customer.

quarterback · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:21:58 am »

Quote from: kcorcoran on November 17, 2004, 10:17:38 am

i'd rather pay $25 for an encoder i can screw stripped wires into then pay $20 for it, $5-10 retail for a header and spend an hour soldering risking making a mistake and ruining the board.

Yes yes yes! Meeee toooo!

whammoed · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:27:18 am »

Quote from: quarterback on November 17, 2004, 10:21:58 am

Quote from: kcorcoran on November 17, 2004, 10:17:38 am
i'd rather pay $25 for an encoder i can screw stripped wires into then pay $20 for it, $5-10 retail for a header and spend an hour soldering risking making a mistake and ruining the board.

Yes yes yes! Meeee toooo!

sounds like you want the Max for $35:
GroovyGameGear Link

The pins are set up for an ide type header...you couldn't put terminal blocks on if you wanted to, the pins aren't space right and there are two rows of them

Hoagie_one · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:29:34 am »

id settle for a pre-installed IDE header, lol

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:31:29 am »

Quote from: whammoed on November 17, 2004, 10:27:18 am

sounds like you want the Max for $35:

Actually, I think they want the Max, but want to pay $25 for it, if I read the posts correctly.

whammoed · « **Reply #16 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:47:21 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on November 17, 2004, 10:31:29 am

Quote from: whammoed on November 17, 2004, 10:27:18 am
sounds like you want the Max for $35:
Actually, I think they want the Max, but want to pay $25 for it, if I read the posts correctly.

yeah

in that case I want the max for $24...no make that $21...no...

quarterback · « **Reply #17 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:47:25 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on November 17, 2004, 10:31:29 am

Quote from: whammoed on November 17, 2004, 10:27:18 am
sounds like you want the Max for $35:
Actually, I think they want the Max, but want to pay $25 for it, if I read the posts correctly.

Exactly!

Well, not really "exactly". The Max appears to allow you to also hook up a keyboard, while the Eco does not appear to allow such a thing. And there's no big cool toggle switch on the Eco either.

And, of course, whammoed is correct about the size/doubled pins not allowing space for all screw terminals on the Eco.

But yes, I would like a very basic "Eco" type model for $25 & with no soldering

Hoagie_one · « **Reply #18 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:49:27 am »

and free shipping.....with a $10 rebate.

RandyT · « **Reply #19 on:** November 17, 2004, 11:02:16 am »

Heh, I think it's time to jump back in here for a second.

Let's see if I can address what has come up so far.

Hot Swap: Depends on the motherboard. Very old boards were somewhat unforgiving. Anything made in the last 4 or 5 years should be fine (but it's at your own risk.) Having said that, I have hotswapped over 750 KeyWiz boards on our test system with NO problems whatsoever. The other thing to note is that a blown keyboard fuse as a result of a hot-swap is usually due to a surge, rather than a short. The KeyWiz power is buffered somewhat with a resistor that should help a bit there. A blown keyboard fuse is also not the end of the world for the motherboard. It's possible to directly feed fused +5v to the keyboard through a hacked extension cable. Not elegant, but keeps the motherboard viable after an unfortunate accident.

Screw Terminals: They are expensive, require more board space ($), and substantially more labor (also $). The Eco 2 is positioned to try to help folks that would normally try to hack a keyboard for their projects and end up suffering the poor results of doing so. Those that require the convenience of screw-terminals, please consider the KeyWiz Max.

40-Pin IDE-syle Headers: First of all, these don't cost $5-$10

and the board is set-up to accept one right now. We are sourcing them as I write this and they will be a $3 option to the Eco 2. In other words $19.95 = Easy Solder version and $22.95 = 40-pin ribbon cable compatible version (coming soon).

RandyT

Hoagie_one · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2004, 11:08:57 am »

you=da man

Lilwolf · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2004, 11:11:04 am »

btw, I've blown many keyboard controllers swapping keyboards. My Celery450 (old firewall) can only work with a USB keyboard... sucks... But your right, new motherboards are much better.

The IDE header version should be great for most! Great option to add.

quarterback · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2004, 11:13:37 am »

Quote from: RandyT on November 17, 2004, 11:02:16 am

We are sourcing them as I write this and they will be a $3 option to the Eco 2. In other words $19.95 = Easy Solder version and $22.95 = 40-pin ribbon cable compatible version (coming soon).

Yeah! Randy Rulez!!!!!

SteveJ34 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2004, 12:53:52 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on November 17, 2004, 11:02:16 am

8<-----snip------.*
40-Pin IDE-syle Headers: First of all, these don't cost $5-$10 and the board is set-up to accept one right now. We are sourcing them as I write this and they will be a $3 option to the Eco 2. In other words $19.95 = Easy Solder version and $22.95 = 40-pin ribbon cable compatible version (coming soon).
.......

Not to be a pest but any idea how soon?

I'm working on a "need to be done --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type-- xmas" project and with your recent product announcement may be in the market for 2-3 Keywhiz Ecos...one of which I need in the next couple of weeks.

RandyT · « **Reply #24 on:** November 17, 2004, 01:22:29 pm »

Quote from: SteveJ34 on November 17, 2004, 12:53:52 pm

Quote from: RandyT on November 17, 2004, 11:02:16 am
8<-----snip------.*
40-Pin IDE-syle Headers: First of all, these don't cost $5-$10 and the board is set-up to accept one right now. We are sourcing them as I write this and they will be a $3 option to the Eco 2. In other words $19.95 = Easy Solder version and $22.95 = 40-pin ribbon cable compatible version (coming soon).
.......

Not to be a pest but any idea how soon?

I'm working on a "need to be done --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type-- xmas" project and with your recent product announcement may be in the market for 2-3 Keywhiz Ecos...one of which I need in the next couple of weeks.

1 week max. Depends on the vendor, but hopefully sooner.

RandyT

SirPoonga · « **Reply #25 on:** November 17, 2004, 01:26:24 pm »

Quote from: mahuti on November 17, 2004, 03:23:53 am

I want a board that's cheap enough for me to buy multiples of... so that i can put them on my swappable control panels.

I don't know much about PS/2 cables (sorry I'm more of a USB guy)... As long as one is plugged in when the computer is started, I can hot swap them later right?

Please forgive my ignorance.

There's a better way to do swappable, keep the interface in the cabinet, make a connector to all the inputs ont he interface (IE an IDE cable), have it so swappable panels plug into the IDE cable.

Randy, COOL!

IDE header price answer:
http://www.pacificcable.com/IDEIDHCon.htm

They aren't expensive though it is hard to find just one to buy, usually come in 5-10 packs.

SirPeale · « **Reply #26 on:** November 17, 2004, 02:41:09 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on November 17, 2004, 01:26:24 pm

IDE header price answer:
http://www.pacificcable.com/IDEIDHCon.htm

That's not the item in question. The header is the part that you solder to the board. This is the part that goes on the cable. Which is already attached to your hard drive cable.

Samstag · « **Reply #27 on:** November 17, 2004, 03:04:09 pm »

I picked up a 5-pack of 80-pin headers at Fry's for $4. Cut them in half and you've got 40-pin headers at 40 cents each! I usually cut them up in 12-pin sections for xbox mods.

http://www.outpost.com/product/2069003

zaphod · « **Reply #28 on:** November 17, 2004, 03:11:09 pm »

Sounds like an excellent option for Bartops. Priced fairly and the extra $3 will be worth it (IMO).

mahuti · « **Reply #29 on:** November 17, 2004, 05:59:32 pm »

Quote

There's a better way to do swappable, keep the interface in the cabinet, make a connector to all the inputs ont he interface (IE an IDE cable), have it so swappable panels plug into the IDE cable.

Yeah, that's the way I have it now, and I'm just not happy with it.

OH, and not rich.... just fussy... about that anyway.

kcorcoran · « **Reply #30 on:** November 18, 2004, 02:01:05 pm »

actually. i just recently bought 2 Eco boards. I guess those aren't around anymore. Then I purchased some screw terminal blocks and had a friend of mine solder them on since it's been a while since I've done any soldering.

Don't remember what the eco cost but the terminal blocks cost me about 5-10 for each board.

i just figured that when mass produced (unless all the soldering is done by hand on these things) then it wouldn't add all that much to the cost when the terminal blcks were bought not only in bulk but probably at wholesale.

and extra $3 to have an IDE header pre installed.. yeah.. that would work too.

anything to keep the wife from yelling about the smell of burning plastic and splashed of solder on the table.

RandyT · « **Reply #31 on:** November 20, 2004, 11:37:19 am »

The "No-Solder" option for the Eco 2 is now available at the GGG store!

Check out the first post in this thread for a photo.

Thanks,
RandyT

Tritoch84 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 20, 2004, 12:31:15 pm »

You freaking rule.

Hoagie_one · « **Reply #33 on:** November 20, 2004, 01:06:05 pm »

Quote from: Tritoch84 on November 20, 2004, 12:31:15 pm

You freaking rule.

and you are now my freakin hero

MinerAl · « **Reply #34 on:** November 20, 2004, 05:03:22 pm »

Ok, now somebody make a $5 pigtail that'll go from 40 pin ide female to 40 (numbered) insulated male quick-disconnects.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #35 on:** November 20, 2004, 05:11:13 pm »

Quote from: MinerAl on November 20, 2004, 05:03:22 pm

Ok, now somebody make a $5 pigtail that'll go from 40 pin ide female to 40 (numbered) insulated male quick-disconnects.

That's your next product announcement, right Randy?

RandyT · « **Reply #36 on:** November 20, 2004, 09:35:17 pm »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on November 20, 2004, 05:11:13 pm

Quote from: MinerAl on November 20, 2004, 05:03:22 pm
Ok, now somebody make a $5 pigtail that'll go from 40 pin ide female to 40 (numbered) insulated male quick-disconnects.
That's your next product announcement, right Randy?

Uhhhhhhh.....no.

But I'd consider doing one for $17, like everyone else charges....if there was real interest

I do have something else unrelated to encoders coming very shortly though.

RandyT

SirPeale · « **Reply #37 on:** November 20, 2004, 09:47:53 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on November 20, 2004, 09:35:17 pm

I do have something else unrelated to encoders coming very shortly though.

Video amp w/ 15KHz protection? Or just a video amp?

RandyT · « **Reply #38 on:** November 20, 2004, 10:20:14 pm »

Quote from: Peale on November 20, 2004, 09:47:53 pm

Quote from: RandyT on November 20, 2004, 09:35:17 pm

I do have something else unrelated to encoders coming very shortly though.

Video amp w/ 15KHz protection? Or just a video amp?

Heh. a little lower tech. But still cool

(although I have been kicking something video related around a little in my head lately)

I'll try to get an announcement together in the morning.

RandyT

saint · « **Reply #39 on:** November 20, 2004, 10:59:17 pm »

Submit News Item! Submit News Item! Submit News Item!

It takes me days sometimes to realize there's new in the forums that isn't on the front page

--- saint

Quote from: RandyT on November 20, 2004, 10:20:14 pm

Quote from: Peale on November 20, 2004, 09:47:53 pm
Quote from: RandyT on November 20, 2004, 09:35:17 pm

I do have something else unrelated to encoders coming very shortly though.

Video amp w/ 15KHz protection? Or just a video amp?

Heh. a little lower tech. But still cool (although I have been kicking something video related around a little in my head lately)

I'll try to get an announcement together in the morning.

RandyT

HagHore · « **Reply #40 on:** November 20, 2004, 11:15:08 pm »

Awesome Randy, absolutely friggin' awesome! Will be placing my order for a couple on Black Friday. This definitely fills the need for a simple interface for the simple cabs.

tep0583 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 21, 2004, 09:57:56 am »

Oh sure, come out with this just AFTER I get my KB hack-powered cab done.

Ah heck, I'm STILL going to get a couple of these......

Good show, Randy!

RandyT · « **Reply #42 on:** November 21, 2004, 07:34:02 pm »

Ok, the next new item from GGG is posted here. In case anyone is curious.

Now to force myself to use the news submission page. (sorry Saint

)

RandyT

*edit* Fixed link. Thanks TigerHeli!

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #43 on:** November 22, 2004, 06:57:35 am »

Quote from: RandyT on November 21, 2004, 07:34:02 pm

Ok, the next new item from GGG is posted here. In case anyone is curious.

Working Linky -
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,27822.0.html

Msg board software updated overnight . . .

DarkSoul1 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 22, 2004, 06:17:49 pm »

Has anyone here from Australia used the KeyWizzes?

What was the postage to Australia worth?

I'm looking to buy a few for cabs I have in production.

Msgd Randy but no reply (Xmas time and I'd assume he's quite busy)

CenturionFive · « **Reply #45 on:** November 29, 2004, 06:48:35 am »

Quote from: RandyT on November 20, 2004, 11:37:19 am

The "No-Solder" option for the Eco 2 is now available at the GGG store!

Check out the first post in this thread for a photo.

Thanks,
RandyT

I cannot find this on your web site, only the solder version. Could you post a link?

Thanks,

Paul

RandyT · « **Reply #46 on:** November 29, 2004, 07:53:43 am »

Quote from: CenturionFive on November 29, 2004, 06:48:35 am

Quote from: RandyT on November 20, 2004, 11:37:19 am

The "No-Solder" option for the Eco 2 is now available at the GGG store!

Check out the first post in this thread for a photo.

Thanks,
RandyT

I cannot find this on your web site, only the solder version. Could you post a link?

You need to actually go to the store for this one. Click here.

Then you will need to add it as an option from the pull-down.

Let me know if you can't find it from there.

Thanks,
RandyT


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Author Topic: New Product: The $19.95 KeyWiz Eco 2 (Read 12135 times)

Vicious