DC analog controller hack... could you?

[Lilwolf]

Could you hack the analog joystick for the DC into a 49 way joystick (for sinister?)

these joysticks have 3 connections for each direction.  (upslow, up, upfast, downslow, down, dowfast, ect)

these all come out as seperate switchs (I believe)...

anyway, the analog joystick on the DC I hear you can hack a real 8way into since when it's going full speed, its fully open.  I'm wondering if you could make it so that all the way upfast would be open, then up would go through a resister (1k for instance) and then the upslow would go through a 2k resister (for instance).  Then connect them all back into whatevers on the DC controller.

Seems like it would be a very easy circuit board to create.  one that I might be able to build!

thanks

[Dave_K.]

Here is the circuit for wiring a 49-way to hall-effect type joystick (should work for DC analog stick).

http://www.arcadecollecting.com/info/49way_to_Hall.gif

I don't think the sinistar stick is a 49-way, but a real hall effect joystick.  If you have a real 49-way stick from happs this should work.

-Dave

[Lilwolf]

Does the dreamcast use a real hall effect joystick?

If so, does anyone have an arcade hall effect joystick to a Dreamcast?


I dont have a joystick yet, but was thinking of getting one.... they both come up on ebay often.  It looks like the 49 way joysticks are in better shape, but if the hall effect  joysticks hack right in, I'm going that way for sure!

[Dave_K.]

Actually the best (easiest) joystick to use for DC analog input would be the happs analog joystick (with ultimate handle):
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50287600.htm
Its not a hall effect stick, but uses 2 5K pots.

I don't think hall effect sticks are made anymore (not sure why).  The only advantage of using a 49-way stick is that its all optical so nothing to wear down or break.  Downside with 49-way is with the circuit you only get about 3 levels of pressure per direction.

-Dave

[u_rebelscum]

Does the dreamcast use a real hall effect joystick

Yes: http://www.howstuffworks.com/dreamcast3.htm

I don't think hall effect sticks are made anymore (not sure why).

Here's one that advertises it can be used in arcades:
http://www.bgsystems.com/files/products/jfx.html

Industrial uses:
http://www.p-qcontrols.com/multi_axis.html  
http://www.clarostat.com/NEWhalleffect.htm
http://www.liftlink.com/ProdServ/productreviews/index2.cfm?articleID=1036  
http://www.chproducts.com/oem/hall_standard.html
for examples.  (CHproducts make PC joysticks, too, but none are Hall Effect.)

I have no idea how good any of these would feel in an arcade cab, but I would guess most would suck.

Hall Effect in console controlers:
http://www.dansdata.com/stinger.htm
http://www.howstuffworks.com/dreamcast3.htm


As to why not designed in arcades anymore, well, I have three theories:

1.  If you look at this page, http://www.chproducts.com/oem/specs.html#2 , the hall effect joysticks have a shorter "play", about half the degrees of movement, as the pot joysticks.  If this was the same for Atari's hall effect joysticks, maybe people didn't like the short degree of movement and, thus, more sensitive to small movements?  
2.  This page (http://www.liftlink.com/ProdServ/productreviews/index2.cfm?articleID=1036) says that Hall Effect joysticks were very sensitive to tempeture, and needed to be calibrated often.  (The new ones aren't as sensitive.)
3.  Also I think the Hall Effect sticks feel stiff, and a small movement on a stiff stick is hard.  

[shrug]  Just guessing, though.

Anyway, hall effect joysticks can be replaced with normal pots joysticks, so just use happs analog stick like others suggested.

[Lilwolf]

So I guess the real question is..

has anyone ever hacked any analog joystick up to a DC controller?

The output of a halls effect is the amount of current... So thats why I thought a halls effect joystick might hack in pretty well.  But I'm sure you could simulate this with a analog joystick (5kpot) or a 49 way...

[Dave_K.]

Lilwolf, I've been wanting to work on this for the past 6 months, but other things in my life always seem to take priority.  I am actually on a mission to build a fully analog control panel for my PS2/Xbox cabinet.  I have a set of 49 Way sticks I'm going to use.  I already sent you the circuit for hooking up to a hall effect type input.  The Xbox and PS2 have many different joystick manufacturers that all seem to do analog input slightly different.  I have yet to see a hall effect Joystick for ps2/xbox...they are mostly now using small potentimeters but how they are wired up also varies (with varing voltages).  No matter what, its going to be a custom job for the particular joystick you use.  

If you have enough money to buy the $116 happs analog sticks, then go for that.  Otherwise try to get a set of used 49-ways (seem to be more available) and use the circuit I gave you.  Another upside with the 49-way is that you can actually wire it both ways to pull double duty as digital 8 way and simulated analog with 3 levels of pressure (in 8 directions).   This way I would have a toggle switch on the CP which could change the stick to either be input to the analog stick, or the d-stick (on the fly while playing a game).

Now the harder question is hacking arcade buttons to send analog pressure data.  This is where a hall effect switch may work best...but I don't feel like buying 16 hall effect sensors and wiring them all up!  There must be an easier way!

Sorry for the rambeling...

-Dave

[Garvv]

Dave_K, could you please email me this circuit as well?  I am currently putting together a dreamcast powered bartop cab.  To emulate the analog controls, I had planned on using a standard 8-way joystick, and a 4pdt switch to toggle between the thumb-pad and analog controls as per the Dc2Jamma project.

Your way sounds much more functional.  Also, can the 49-ways be easily wired to function as standard 8-ways?
Thanks

[Dave_K.]

Garvv, a link to the circuit is posted above in this thread by me.  Yes the 49-way can be wired as a simple 8-way also (just read one of the LED switches).  Some more info on 49-way is found in the Controls section of this site.

-Dave