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Lost: 380 tons of high explosives - Last seen in Iraq
Dartful Dodger:
Election Week Surprise?
Sorry if this was posted already, but I haven't the time to read all of these nonsense posts.
I just want to throw some gas on this fire.
mr.Curmudgeon:
You're pushing the theory. You dont agree with it?
I'm interested in it, and it's developing (as they say). Given that I believe the Bush regime to be completely inept and the war to be a sham, I am certainly more prone to expect this news to bare that out. I'm not a White House official so I don't have any more info than what the news is giving me, however, based on what has come out so far it looks bad for Bush. He has given *at least* 10-12 difference excuses for how this may have happened, when it may have happened, etc...so it's become increasing clear he has absolutely no idea how to respond, and that he very well may have covered this up. Again, we'll see as this pans out...
And you're offering no explanation for the things that would have to have happened for this to be negligence on Bush's part.
Ok...here's a scenario, see below...
If you're the Iraqi in Charge, why do you wait until the Americans overrun the facility before you decide to get the explosives - when you could have done it, freely, after 15 March?
Once the Americans came and left the site it became apparent to potential looters that it was up for grabs. Beforehand wouldn't they be worried that one of the largest ammo dumps in Iraq would be blown to smithereens by American forces? Wouldn't you salivate once those very same forces stopped by, left everything open (possibly breakin IAEA seals in the process) and moved along to glory in Baghdad?
It may even be possible that the Bush team struck a deal with Iraqis to move the munitions and were scammed (think Chalabi). The level of incompetence in this administration stuns me, and apparently it's even too much for you to accept. I happen to believe they are capable of it though, you don't seem to want to acknowledge the possibility.
So there. There are a couple possible explanations. However you feel about this, it's absolutely apparently that a large stockpile of explosives that were monitored and accounted for by the IAEA before Bush decided to go to war with Iraq has gone missing and may very well be blowing our troops apart in a country that doesn't want us there anyhow.
All goes back to another one of *my* theories that we are less safe now than before Bush's War in Iraq.
TA Pilot:
Given that I believe the Bush regime to be completely inept and the war to be a sham, I am certainly more prone to expect this news to bare that out.
But, should it be shown that the explosives were not there when we got there, are you willing to admit that its not Bush's fault?
He has given *at least* 10-12 difference excuses for how this may have happened, when it may have happened, etc...
All of which are perfectly reasonable.
At LEAST as reasonable as "the Iraqis stole it all while we were watching".
And there's absolutely NO evidence of a cover-up.
Once the Americans came and left the site it became apparent to potential looters that it was up for grabs.
You dont "loot" 380 tons of anything.
Lifting 380 tons of explosives is a significant logistical event. It requires significant list assets, manpower, loading equipment, fuel, food, water, command, control and communications, security, etc.
And somehow, the Iraqis, who to this point had been falling apart and running away from our troops, were able to congeal enough of all of the above to lift all those explosives from under our nose, under combat conditions, without anyone noticing.
(Or... they moved it before we got there, something you seem unwilling to consider)
Beforehand wouldn't they be worried that one of the largest ammo dumps in Iraq would be blown to smithereens by American forces?
Before the war? Why?
And why is the danger of this GREATER than trying to lift it after we overrun it and have troops all over the place - when we could STILL bomb the facility while they were moving the materal WHILE engaging them on the ground.
It may even be possible that the Bush team struck a deal with Iraqis to move the munitions and were scammed (think Chalabi).
Ok - you've moved to fantasy...
The level of incompetence in this administration stuns me,
...and partisan bigotry.
So there. There are a couple possible explanations.
Yes. And its also possible I will win the Powerball next time around. But when you're asked to supply -reasonable- answers, you can't deliver...
Crazy Cooter:
Why was it not part of the mission to look to see if it was still there? Bush doesn't want to answer that so he runs around and around and tries to change the question. He did the same thing at the debates. Here's what I want to know:
Did the administration know the stuff was there and if they did, why didn't they check up on it? If they didn't, who didn't do their homework?
Seems to be the first question we should ask. So TA, before we get to the logistics of moving the stuff, lets start at the beginning.
Question #1 - Did Bush know the stuff was supposed to be there?
TA Pilot:
Why was it not part of the mission to look to see if it was still there?
The looked into what was necessary to ensure local security. This is what combat troops do when halting movement towards an objective.
You, again, are second guessing the commanders on the scene. Stupid of you to do that.
See, there's all kinds of perfectly good reaosn to NOT stop an advance to secure overrun areas with combat troops - speed, momentum, initiative, superior force at the time and place of battle, economy of force. Getting to Baghdad as soon as possible with as many troops as possible was deemed a better approach at defeating the Iraqis and then securing their munitions than moving slowly and securing every site as you go.
You, apparently, do not appreciate the necessity to move quicly and retain the initiative in a combat operation. Clearly, you're again second guessing the commander on the field. Again, its stupid of yuo to do that.
So TA, before we get to the logistics of moving the stuff, lets start at the beginning.
No no no no no.
I have been asking my questions for more than a day. They have to be answered before than can be ANY chance of the disappearance even having happened while we had control of the facility. if you cannot reasonable show how they could have moved all that tonnage under the eyes of US troops, you dont have a case against Bush -- regardless as to if we knew the explosives were there or not.
You address my questions and then I'll address yours.