Which encoder do you use? and the main reason why

[Wizard of DelRay]

I'm all for competition and that's why the MAMI encoders are included, but an encoder that is non-programmable and offers less inputs for a higher price isn't very competitive.

But you can have them program you're own custom set into the encoder for you.  I would hope that's not an extra cost, but who knows?

The price difference isn't that great (I think it's about $7 including shipping) so like I said since I've bought encoders from Ultimarc before, I'll probably go with the IPAC/4.  I just wanted to hear from someone who's used/using one what they thought of it.

[Tiger-Heli]

But you can have them program you're own custom set into the encoder for you.  I would hope that's not an extra cost, but who knows?

I would expect that to be extra cost, but the point of programmability isn't so you can have your own custom set.

If you just use your encoder for MAME, you don't really need a custom set or a programmable encoder.

Where it comes in, is if you want to Play PC game A and Button 1 is set as "G" and can't be changed and then you want to Play PC game B and Button 1 is set as "F" and can't be changed.

With a non-programmable encoder, you are out of luck unless you wire Button 1 to a different input before you play each game.

With a programmable encoder, you create a .cfg file for each game, write a batch file to load this and start the game, and you're set to play.

The price difference isn't that great (I think it's about $7 including shipping) so like I said since I've bought encoders from Ultimarc before, I'll probably go with the IPAC/4.  I just wanted to hear from someone who's used/using one what they thought of it.

I didn't figure the price difference with shipping, but before shipping they're the same price for a non-USB encoder with 8 less inputs and non-programmability.

[Wizard of DelRay]

If you just use your encoder for MAME, you don't really need a custom set or a programmable encoder.

Where it comes in, is if you want to Play PC game A and Button 1 is set as "G" and can't be changed and then you want to Play PC game B and Button 1 is set as "F" and can't be changed.

With a non-programmable encoder, you are out of luck unless you wire Button 1 to a different input before you play each game.

With a programmable encoder, you create a .cfg file for each game, write a batch file to load this and start the game, and you're set to play.

Gotcha.  I wasn't really sure what the big deal is with an encoder being programmable but that cleared it all up for me.  Now to finish reading your page on Key Assignments.  Thanks.

[Grasshopper]

Ok, this wasn't supposed to be a general discussion, but I would like to point out a few items:

I also bought an Ipac a couple of years ago. I prefer it to the Keywiz because unlike the Keywiz it keeps its setting on power off and supports ps/2 and USB connections.

Agree on USB being a nice feature, however, the default codeset of both encoders is very good for MAME use and the default KeyWiz set is available after power-off, so it's not that big of a drawback, although it is a bit inconvenient.

I'm using my Ipac with a converter that enables a PC keyboard to be used in place of a Dreamcast controller. The converter cannot be reprogrammed, and requires a particular key set which is not the same as the Ipac's default. So for me the ability to keep settings on power off is absolutely essential.

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok, this wasn't supposed to be a general discussion, but I would like to point out a few items:

I also bought an Ipac a couple of years ago. I prefer it to the Keywiz because unlike the Keywiz it keeps its setting on power off and supports ps/2 and USB connections.

Agree on USB being a nice feature, however, the default codeset of both encoders is very good for MAME use and the default KeyWiz set is available after power-off, so it's not that big of a drawback, although it is a bit inconvenient.

I'm using my Ipac with a converter that enables a PC keyboard to be used in place of a Dreamcast controller. The converter cannot be reprogrammed, and requires a particular key set which is not the same as the Ipac's default. So for me the ability to keep settings on power off is absolutely essential.

Good point!!!

[Bgnome]

i wouldnt say that a non-programmable encoder is a huge drawback.  for example, a keyboard hack is non-programmable, but you have all the keys anyway.  on the other hand, when you are dealing with a limited number of inputs and programs/emulators/games that dont allow you to reassign controls, reprogammability is a nice option to have.

[Wizard of DelRay]

Being programmbable doesn't matter to me as the only PC games I play are ones that are best controlled with a mouse.

What I am curious to know is do keys like Alt, Ctrl, Tab and the arrow keys pose a problem?  I thought I read somewhere not to use the arrow keys, PgUp, PgDn, Delete, etc, but I can't remember where right now.  Is the standard MAME layout fine or should I remap?

[Bgnome]

What I am curious to know is do keys like Alt, Ctrl, Tab and the arrow keys pose a problem?  I thought I read somewhere not to use the arrow keys, PgUp, PgDn, Delete, etc, but I can't remember where right now.

Gotcha.  I wasn't really sure what the big deal is with an encoder being programmable but that cleared it all up for me.  Now to finish reading your page on Key Assignments.  Thanks.

 

standard mame layout is fine, if you are using mame    the key assignments issue is really only if you have a keyboard buffer to worry about, which usually isnt the case with your standard encoders for this market..

[Wizard of DelRay]

standard mame layout is fine, if you are using mame    the key assignments issue is really only if you have a keyboard buffer to worry about, which usually isnt the case with your standard encoders for this market.

Sounds good.  Maybe I'll go ahead and give the MAMI48 a shot then.

[Bgnome]

just to clarify on the keyboard buffer issue, here is a bit gleammed off of Tiger-heli's keyboard hack writeup:


There are certain keys which send extra commands to the keyboard buffer and should be avoided.  Highlight these non-recommended keys in Gray (for example) as follows:  Direction Arrows (note that both HotRod and X-Arcade avoid these), Windows Menu Key, L Windows GUI, R Windows GUI,  R Ctrl, R Alt, Insert, Home, Page Up, Delete, End, Page Down, PrntScrn, Pause, Keypad Slash, and Keypad Enter.  Details of how I came up with this list are available here.  Most keys send three characters to the keyboard buffer.  These all send five or more.

While I recommend avoiding these keys even for dedicated encoders, the problem is orders of magnitude worse with a keyboard hack.  Dedicated encoders have been optimized for speed and throughput, because they expect to be used with arcade games.  Keyboards are designed for typing in a word processor.

There is a catch-22 with the arrow keys.  While MAME itself can be easily programmed to get around using them, many Windows programs and probably even some front-ends for MAME cannot.  However, the HotRod is non-programmable, and it does not use them.

In some cases, you may have no option other than to use these keys.  ...  This is acceptable, the keys will still work, they just slow down the processing, so their use should be minimized.

[Tiger-Heli]

i wouldnt say that a non-programmable encoder is a huge drawback.  for example, a keyboard hack is non-programmable, but you have all the keys anyway.  on the other hand, when you are dealing with a limited number of inputs and programs/emulators/games that dont allow you to reassign controls, reprogammability is a nice option to have.

Need some clarification here.  A keyboard has all the keys available, but they also have ghosting/blocking issues.

Meaning you might not be able to press the three keys you want  at the same time.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm using my Ipac with a converter that enables a PC keyboard to be used in place of a Dreamcast controller. The converter cannot be reprogrammed, and requires a particular key set which is not the same as the Ipac's default. So for me the ability to keep settings on power off is absolutely essential.

Grasshopper,

I understand your comments about EEPROM.  In fact, I thought they were relevant enough that I included them in my encoder comparison in the EEPROM vs. SDRAM section.

Having said that, I believe you could do what you want with the KeyWiz encoder thanks to a number of intelligent design decisions.  This solution is not as elegant as an I-PAC, but I think it should work.  Consider the following:

Both the default codeset and the alternate default codeset are always available with the KeyWiz, and shifted keys are also programmed and loaded for both sets.  Also, the alternate set basically covers all of the main keyboard keys.

So it should be possible to hook your dreamcast device up to the alternate codeset terminals of the KeyWiz and then press a button connected to the Shazaaam! and J1L terminals (with diodes) to load the alternate set.  (If you wanted to get really fancy, I