Light Gun Interface

[dmish82]

HI,

What kind of PC interface card do I need to connect 2 light guns to my arcade? Also, what kind of connection do the light guns need to have to interface with the card?

Thanks,
Dave

[Howard_Casto]

You can't, and you can't.  There is no known way to interface arcade lightguns to the pc for various reasons I won't get into.  

Buy two act labs lightguns.  analog mame supports two just fine.

[u_rebelscum]

Depends on the lightgun.

USB, for USB PC lightguns.
PS/2, for PS/2 PC lightguns.  (most suck though)

As HC said, no arcade lightguns.

[Nephus]

so I guess what you guys are trying to say is that this doesn't exist: http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm

Yes, it's expensive.. plus you have to buy 2 expensive guns (if you don't already have them)... but you can do it.

edit: that thing will accept standard happ guns right out of the box... so if you bought a shooter cab somewhere and have the guns, all you need to do is drop that baby in there.

why is it so fun when the new guy proves the "impossible" to people who've been around here for so long?  

[clanggedin]

No one has been willing to plunk $150+ just to test it with Mame.

Will you do that for us??

[shadowdrak]

The biggest problem with the r0r3 interface is not only is it expensive, but it seems like there is no place to buy one either.  If you can get ahold of one, lemme know how it works.  Looks like it should work ok.  With the price of happ guns though, you'd be looking at 4-500 to get them and get them installed.  One thing you might try is to fit the actlabs PCB into a happ gun. If you want that authentic look.  Dunno If that would even work as it would require some modifications to the equipment(a lot cheaper to test though).  I thought It might be neat to get a solenoid gun working with the act labs setup.

[Xiaou2]

ive seen happ guns on ebay for arround 50$

[MoonDog]

i'd be curious as well to hear if this works.  i just picked up a couple arcade light guns for free.  i thought i could get them to work with MAME, but i guess maybe not.  i don't even know if they work so dropping $150 bucks to find out isn't quite worth it at this point.

[SirPoonga]

No one has been willing to plunk $150+ just to test it with Mame.

Will you do that for us??

For 1 gun, for two you need to buy more

"The optical gun board will work in conjunction with the UGCI and will allow a complete Optical Gun system supporting two optical gun inputs can be built for less than a few hundred dollars."

[MoonDog]

I emailed r0r3 recently like others on this board and have not heard back.  It sure would be interesting to find out if this mystical device actually works.

[KevSteele]

I've also emailed ROR3 about reviewing their interface - no reply.

I'll try again, and I'm thinking right now of using any raffle proceeds from the upcoming WGD9200 RetroBlast raffle to finance a purchase of one of these interfaces for a review.

Kevin

[hulkster]

so I guess what you guys are trying to say is that this doesn't exist: http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm

Yes, it's expensive.. plus you have to buy 2 expensive guns (if you don't already have them)... but you can do it.

edit: that thing will accept standard happ guns right out of the box... so if you bought a shooter cab somewhere and have the guns, all you need to do is drop that baby in there.

why is it so fun when the new guy proves the "impossible" to people who've been around here for so long?  

  booyah

[Howard_Casto]

Not really... I had heard rumors of such a device, but without a single review, a single user stating they had actually bought one, or any proof of it working, regardless of the price, at this point it is vaporware.  It's kind of like those ps/2 lightguns rebel mentioned. Technically they are lightguns, but they suck and don't really work well so we don't count them.  

Take that and the fact that you can't buy said interface and even if you could you probably couldn't afford it and I'll still stand by the statment that there are no known ways to easily interface arcade lightguns to the pc.  

[SirPoonga]

I've also emailed ROR3 about reviewing their interface - no reply.

I'll try again, and I'm thinking right now of using any raffle proceeds from the upcoming WGD9200 RetroBlast raffle to finance a purchase of one of these interfaces for a review.

Kevin

Did you try and call them?  If the long distance is an issue I might be able to try.  I have a calling card that is 3.4 cents a minute  Just PM me what questions you'd like to have answered.  Word them exactly the way you'd want me to ask.

Jack J. McCauley - VP Sales
1 Jillian Way
Danville
California
USA 94506
Tel: 925-362-8591
Fax: 925-838-0597
www.r0r3.com
ntdrivers@r0r3.com

[KevSteele]

Nope - I haven't called (yet). LD charges are no problem, just haven't had a voice this last week due to the flu.

I'm sounding less "frog-like" every day, so I'll give them a buzz in a couple of days.

Kevin

[dmish82]

I guess if I just plug 2-Act Labs USB interface light-guns into the computer that would work. Now does Mame support the light guns or would there be any other interface needed?

[Minwah]

I guess if I just plug 2-Act Labs USB interface light-guns into the computer that would work. Now does Mame support the light guns or would there be any other interface needed?

Buy two act labs lightguns.  analog mame supports two just fine.

[exibar]

So has anyone tried this board yet?

  anxious people need to know :-)

Mike B

[MoonDog]

I finally got an email response from Jack McCauley at r0r3.  He said he sells this board directly.  I'm a bit far out from needing one right now, but I hope to get one in the future.  I have two arcade guns but I'm not even sure if they work yet.

He said to give him a call at (925) 362 - 8591.

Anyway, I just thought I would pass that on.  It sounds like others weren't able to get any response.

[MoonDog]

I'm quite curious to hear if this thing will work.  If anyone gets one, be sure to post a review.

I'll probably email the guy back and ask some questions since I finally got a response.  Does anybody here have anything specific they would like to ask about this?  Who knows, maybe I'll just bite the bullet some point and pick one up myself.

[KevSteele]

My plans at the moment are to buy the ROR3 interface and two light guns as soon as the current RetroBlast raffle is over, and review them ASAP.

I'll be sure and post here when the review is ready.

Kevin

[Pilot143]

you do realize the future of this company rests in kevins hands... if its a thumbs up... they'll be backordered for months upon MONTHS!

...if its a thumbs down...

[KevSteele]

you do realize the future of this company rests in kevins hands... if its a thumbs up... they'll be backordered for months upon MONTHS!

...if its a thumbs down...

Methinks you exaggerate a bit...  

Kevin

[exibar]

So I should order one now to go with the ebay auction of a zillion (ok a huge pile, not quite a zillion) of lightguns that I just won for $36.00 and change?

  shipping was $34.80 though... ouch... but there are at least 2 dozen lightguns in there.... it's questionable how many work, but I figured that I should give the auction a bid and see if I win just in case a few actually work.... hoping that this interface works as well as it should...

[Minwah]

My plans at the moment are to buy the ROR3 interface and two light guns as soon as the current RetroBlast raffle is over, and review them ASAP.

Great news, can't wait

[exibar]

here's the scoop on those ULGI light gun interface boards.  I've spoken with Jack yesterday and he filled me in on what they can and cannot do, at the moment.

  They will not work properly with MAME right now, due to a driver issue.  The board doesn't make the arcade lightguns act as a mouse, which is basically what we are in need of.  Jack flat out said that they will not work with PC's and MAME right out of the box.  I'm sure if they did he would have told me so, I had my charge card in hand ready to buy one from him had he said "yes the boards work with MAME".

   BUT, he did say that he will include the SDK (Software Development Kit) with the purchase of the board that will allow the creation of such a driver.  He said they work with the Playstation 2 right out of the box, so if you own a PS2 and want to use an arcade lightgun, do it to it!

   I've sent Jack a message today requesting a development sample of his ULGI board.  With the board in hand, his SDK and Microsoft's Driver Development Kit I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to write a driver for this interface board that will allow it to be treated as a mouse, thus we'll be able to use these boards and arcade lightguns with MAME and basically any other emulator out there.
    I will not be able to do this if I'm forced to pay $160 for the board though.  As it is not 100% for sure that the driver can be written by anyone to perform what we need it to do.  I am confident of my abilities to write the driver, but I'm not cinfident enough in the UGLI's ability to make the lightgun behave like a mouse enough to gamble $160.  Development samples of computer hardware are exchanged all the time in exactly this manner, so I'm hoping that Jack's company has a policy in place that allows for this type of exchange, hardware for software.  

    I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

  Mike B

[SirPoonga]

He said they work with the Playstation 2 right out of the box, so if you own a PS2 and want to use an arcade lightgun, do it to it!

Not to get off topic from what you said about the SDK and such, is it me or is this a really expensive way to get a lightgun ona  platform with not too many lightgun games?  They must sell to business and game expos, not to users.

[Minwah]

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

Cool, thanks for the effort and I'll look forward to reading any progress

[KevSteele]

Mike,

Good luck, and be sure and keep us all informed on how it goes!

Kevin

[dmish82]

Thanks for the extreme effort Mike. I look forward to hearing about this.

[PacManFan]

I would be willing to develop an interface to MAME using the SDK. If someone can provide the lightguns and interface boards, I will write the device driver for it. I've written device drivers before for 98 and XP, and I've got full access to MSDN resources and DDK's.
I definately think this is something worth pursuing for mame. It'll give me a chance also to examine the interface hardware board in detail, and possibly figure out  a way to reverse engineer it.

-PMF

[exibar]

I would be willing to develop an interface to MAME using the SDK. If someone can provide the lightguns and interface boards, I will write the device driver for it. I've written device drivers before for 98 and XP, and I've got full access to MSDN resources and DDK's.
I definately think this is something worth pursuing for mame. It'll give me a chance also to examine the interface hardware board in detail, and possibly figure out  a way to reverse engineer it.

-PMF

  I do have the lightguns, but not the board as of yet.  I'm still waiting for Jack's reply.  I figure due to the holiday on Monday that he might have taken today off.  I'll call him on Tuesday if I don't hear back from him.

   Perhaps we can collaborate on the driver?  Sounds like we both have the same resources available and two minds are better than one, as they say :-)

    Mike B

[MoonDog]

Too bad that it won't work with MAME yet.  

That is great that there are a couple people who might be able to put together a driver if it's possible.  

Mike, if Jack won't provide a board I bet we could take up a collection.  Maybe he'd at least give you a discount.

I emailed Jack the other day to ask about compatibility issues, but I guess I have my answer since it doesn't work with MAME (yet).  The specs show that it will work with SVGA 640 to 1024.  Does anyone know if it will work on an arcade monitor?  It's not as big a deal for me since I'm running a PC monitor right now, but I may switch at some point.

[exibar]

It will work with an arcade monitor and a TV.  Right now it works great with PlayStation 2 I'm told, right out of the box.

  We'll see how things go, I've already received a couple offers for donations to the project, but I'm holding out for a development board from R0R3 in exchange for my (our?) work on a driver that will work with Mame.

  Mike B

[DanteBK]

analog mame supports two just fine.

MAME32 has options for:

Enable Lightgun
Reload
Dual Lightguns

Has anyone tested these? I only ever hear people mention analog mame.

[u_rebelscum]

analog mame supports two just fine.

MAME32 has options for:

Enable Lightgun
Reload
Dual Lightguns

Has anyone tested these? I only ever hear people mention analog mame.

Official mame's (and mame32's) "Dual lightgun" support only works if one gun's trigger is mouse button 1, the other gun's trigger is mouse button 3.

Official mame's (and mame32's) "Reload" is designed to translate all mouse button 2 presses to reload (and with the "dual lightgun", a mouse button 4 press as player 2 reload).  You can't remap this.

Official mame's (and mame32's) "lightgun" is just like enabling mice, except the cursor position is polled (instead of polling relative movement like with enabling mice).

[exibar]

Still no word from Jack about the sample development board :-(

  I'll ping him today and see how it goes, I'll report back here later tonight.

  Mike B

[clanggedin]

Also there is no way to map Lightgun2 X and Y in Official mame right now. It maybe possible, but no one in the mame developer forums can show me how.

[u_rebelscum]

Also there is no way to map Lightgun2 X and Y in Official mame right now. It maybe possible, but no one in the mame developer forums can show me how.

Currently, you have to edit the cfg (or better, the ctrlr) file in a text editor.

Instead of "GUNCODE_1_ANALOG_X", put "GUNCODE_2_ANALOG_X" (same with Y axis).  Hmm, I've been having probs with guncode; try "MOUSECODE_2_ANALOG_X" or "MOUSECODE_3_ANALOG_X" if guncode doesn't work.

Of course, mame has to able to see the guns as seperate devices, which ofiicial mame does in win9x, but I don't think so in winXP.

[Billkwando]

I'm new here but fairly experienced with building arcade controls for Neo Geo and such..but I have what is probably a ridiculously dumb question in reference to this thread.

If MAME drivers hadn't been written with the mouse in mind, what would stop one from interfacing a console gun with the PC?

For example, I have a few different Tigergame/Mayflash adaptors I use to play PC games with my XBox controllers (such as my XBox flight stick which ownz). The other day I thought it would be fun to hook my Dual PSX/Saturn lightgun to my PSX to Xbox adaptor, and then hook my PSX to Xbox adaptor to my XBox to USB adaptor, then my Xbox to USB adaptor to the PC to see if "we get signal". (Phew!!)

Well, sure enough when I hooked it all up and went into the windows calibration utility, and it recognizes button presses from any of the buttons including the trigger.

What I'm wondering is since lightgun games are made to work with "raw" lightguns, if we had a "raw" mame driver (read: non mousified), shouldn't you be able to calibrate the gun and use it as normal?? (I should mention I use TV-Out here I think)

I mean, assuming that there's not a contact in the PSX controller port that's only used by lightguns, the data from the sensor has to be going somewhere, right? I suppose the question would be where?

Am I on to something, or as usual missing something painfully obvious that throws an 8 foot monkey wrench into the equation?

Thanks!
Bill

[u_rebelscum]

If MAME drivers hadn't been written with the mouse in mind,

Although the answer to the true question you ask isn't effected by the incorrectness of this setup supposition, I should point out the supposition is not true.

Mame can use analog joysticks for lightgun game, as well as lightguns and trackballs and mice.  And keyboards and digital sticks.  Some people here have made mounted positional gun (aka joysticks) cabs just to play these games, and play them to their satisfaction.

So the "If" should be followed with "MAME hadn't been written with mice, lightguns, analog joysticks, keyboards and digital stick in mind,..."

Again, this doesn't effect the answer, but early posts in this thread make it sound like lightguns have to be mice type inputs.  Not true.  (It's just that past joystick lightguns had low accuracy, and the current mouse lightguns work, and the "if it ain't broke..." thinking that make it falsely seem that all lightguns need to be mice to work well.)

what would stop one from interfacing a console gun with the PC? .... What I'm wondering is since lightgun games are made to work with "raw" lightguns, if we had a "raw" mame driver (read: non mousified), shouldn't you be able to calibrate the gun and use it as normal?? (I should mention I use TV-Out here I think)

I mean, assuming that there's not a contact in the PSX controller port that's only used by lightguns, the data from the sensor has to be going somewhere, right? I suppose the question would be where?

Accuracy, compatabilty, accuracy, and compatibilty.  And did I mention accuracy?

First, PSX "raw" lightgun data is different from "raw" arcade data, both which are probably different from "raw" xbox lightgun data.  Mame translates standard PC inputs into emulated "raw" arcade lightgun data.  So the best way is for the lightgun to be translated to either a mouse type input or an analog joystick type input, and for the accuracy and precision to be high.

Second, I noticed you didn't say the lightgun position (where you shot) calibrated in windows.  If it did, mame could see it.  That takes both a compatable windows driver and the lightgun sensor properly working.  Neither which is a mame issue (mame should stay out of running input devices).

Third, the data is "going" somewhere, but either the adapter doesn't understand, or can't translate it, or translates it poorly to the computer.  "Lost in Translation".  Again, not a mame thing.

Fourth, past PC joystick lightguns sucked in accuracy.  Not sure if it was old tech or bad drivers or what, but it will take a lot to get past the preconception that joystick lightguns don't work.  Oh, and that most games (but not mame, hopefully: see note in first half of this reply) would need to be rewritten to work with the joystick guns.




After that ramble, it raises a question for the guys thinking of writing the interface driver.

Would it be easier to write a joystick driver for the interface board?  If the precision is above 3200 per axis, it should work fine in mame.  (Even though most analog joysticks output only 256 values, directX directInput's max precision is >64000 (0xffff in hex), and mame's internal precision is twice that.)  Hmm, deadzone needs to be zero, and I guess calibration would change the movement saturation level.

Just a thought.

[Billkwando]

Ok....so barring all the stuff about "joystick lightguns" (which aren't my particular concern at the moment) how much of this post applies to my own post?

First, PSX "raw" lightgun data is different from "raw" arcade data, both which are probably different from "raw" xbox lightgun data.  Mame translates standard PC inputs into emulated "raw" arcade lightgun data.  So the best way is for the lightgun to be translated to either a mouse type input or an analog joystick type input, and for the accuracy and precision to be high.

I've already read (here I thought) that console lightguns can function just fine in actual arcade machines.... so what creates such an accuracy/connectivity concern in MAME specifically, besides the drivers? Also, when you say MAME was written to work with lightguns, do you mean the actlabs gun?

Perhaps I should try my idea on a PSX emulator first to see if the basic idea is even possible....as I was a bit confused by your post so I'm not sure if you answered my question or not.

Second, I noticed you didn't say the lightgun position (where you shot) calibrated in windows.  If it did, mame could see it.  That takes both a compatable windows driver and the lightgun sensor properly working.  Neither which is a mame issue (mame should stay out of running input devices).

Third, the data is "going" somewhere, but either the adapter doesn't understand, or can't translate it, or translates it poorly to the computer.  "Lost in Translation".  Again, not a mame thing.

Calibrated? I went into Game Controllers in Control Panel and into the controller menu, where it shows that when I pull the trigger, it registers as "Button 9" on the controller screen and the little red #9 flashes to show I've pushed the button. I'm wondering how I might test to send signals to the gun that make it "think" it's shooting at a target to see if that translates in Control panel as a thumbstick movement or if it has no effect at all, but since I have no was of hooking it up to a gun game (thanks to MAME thinking everything is an actlabs gun) there's no way to even test it. Maybe the problem IS with the adaptor, after all it thinks it's a thumbstick, but still....

Does anyone know where I can find a pinout for a NON NegCon PSX gun? (The old style you just plug into the controller port) Or if it's possible to use REAL lightguns with any PSX emulator?

[Bgnome]

i dont think any of the psx emulators have psx light gun support, especially since there is a lack of drivers..

[Billkwando]

Could Rebel (or someone) put the following in context for me in regards to how it relates to his post? (from http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_consoles.shtml#lightguns)

Lightguns
 Console lightgun games work very nicely inside arcade cabinets (and look much better than anything Mame has to offer IMHO).  They work perfectly on Arcade monitors using the RGB/SCART or 480i Transcoder options mentioned above.  Contrary to belief, console lightgun games can also work on VGA monitors (even when upscanned) at 640x480@60hz.  They will not work however on LCD monitors/projectors, or HDTVs with 100hz refresh rates.  In most cases, you will have to make sure to have your Brightness and Contrast controls cranked to their highest levels for the gun to calibrate correctly.  
[I have confirmed the Dreamcast lightgun works on a VGA monitor (via the DC VGA box), and that the Playstation2 GunCon2 works when upscanned using the X-RGB2.]
 

Is it simply a matter of not having the right drivers to "marry" the lightgun to MAME? Keep in mind my lightgun is a Saturn/PSX dual gun so I have a feeling the types of signals passed probably are pretty similar for all standard lightguns. I mean....they're pretty simple technology right? Duck Hunt baby!

Thanks!

[u_rebelscum]

Could Rebel (or someone) put the following in context for me in regards to how it relates to his post? (from http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_consoles.shtml#lightguns)

Lightguns
 Console lightgun games work very nicely inside arcade cabinets (and look much better than anything Mame has to offer IMHO).  They work perfectly on Arcade monitors using the RGB/SCART or 480i Transcoder options mentioned above.  
Contrary to belief, console lightgun games can also work on VGA monitors (even when upscanned) at 640x480@60hz.  They will not work however on LCD monitors/projectors, or HDTVs with 100hz refresh rates.  In most cases, you will have to make sure to have your Brightness and Contrast controls cranked to their highest levels for the gun to calibrate correctly.  
[I have confirmed the Dreamcast lightgun works on a VGA monitor (via the DC VGA box), and that the Playstation2 GunCon2 works when upscanned using the X-RGB2.]

Translation:
"You can put your console in your cab, and play lightgun games on your console in the cab."

Is it simply a matter of not having the right drivers to "marry" the lightgun to MAME? Keep in mind my lightgun is a Saturn/PSX dual gun so I have a feeling the types of signals passed probably are pretty similar for all standard lightguns. I mean....they're pretty simple technology right?

No.  It's a matter of hardware, timing, resolution, and "marrying" the lightgun to windows.

Think of lightguns much like all other inputs: "if it works in windows, it should work in mame."  Get the lightgun positioning working in windows, and it will work in mame.

Mame does not, should not, cannot, and will not do the hardware/driver level processing of any inputs.

Duck Hunt baby!

FWIW, the NES lightgun used different tech.  If gun sensed dark, it was a miss.  If gun sensed light, it was a hit.  Start up your old NES, duck hunt, and NES gun.  Point the gun at a incondesent light: pull the trigger and you won't miss.


I don't know how the other console games communicate* trigger pulls and screen positions but:

If it's "like arcade guns" (ie: don't computer position) as posted earlier in this thread, then they need the same type hardware as arcade guns need to work in windows (and thus, in mame).

If the guns compute the position, it can communicate the position three ways:

If it's "like joystick", then the guns should work in mame.

If it's "like mice", then the adapters just need to be able translate those console's mouse data (most just translate joystick type).  It can translate to either like a mice, or like an analog joystick.

If it's some other way, then the case is much like mice; the adapter needs to translate that format to some windows analog way.


*search other threads on how lightguns work.  Or read HowThingsWorks: the first is NES, the second is all other lightguns.  (Not positional guns, not IR guns, though)

[Billkwando]

No.  It's a matter of hardware, timing, resolution, and "marrying" the lightgun to windows.

Think of lightguns much like all other inputs: "if it works in windows, it should work in mame."  Get the lightgun positioning working in windows, and it will work in mame.

This is very helpful and I appreciate your patience in explaining. The problem is I don't know how to tell if it's working because I don't know how to test it.

Does anyone know which kind of system the Sega Saturn used for lightguns, or how the Virtua Cop arcade guns work? Meaning if it's like the NES gun or like arcade guns?

What sort of light would you recommend pointing the gun at to try it, or is there some other possible test?

Is gun calibration something Mayflash would have to write into the driver/calibration utility do you think or do you think it's possible to "test by the seat of one's pants" using an incandescent light or other means (what would be the opposite, a black screen?)?

Think of lightguns much like all other inputs: "if it works in windows, it should work in mame."  Get the lightgun positioning working in windows, and it will work in mame.

Mame does not, should not, cannot, and will not do the hardware/driver level processing of any inputs.

See, I don't know how it's possible to make it "work" in MAME (and asked about the drivers) because when you hit Tab in a game to configure controllers, all the average light gun game lists are the lightgun options, which were designed for the actlabs gun, so I don't know how I'd go about setting it up. I mean, I can configure it in a fighting game....but that's not exactly gonna help right?

Anyways I appreciate the input. Mayflash is pretty cool about making updates so it would be cool if I had some idea of what to ask them to do for the next driver update (assuming it's not just a complete impossibility)

Thanks!!
Bill

[Billkwando]

Does anyone know which kind of system the Sega Saturn used for lightguns, or how the Virtua Cop arcade guns work? Meaning if it's like the NES gun or like arcade guns?

I played some Virtua Cop on Saturn last night and noticed that the whole screen flashes white when you fire.

[shadowdrak]

All of the modern guns work pretty much the same way.  From a hardware standpoint, they are just timed pulses.  Since every gun is slightly different, MAME has no way to understand them as raw data.  Commercial light guns all have a certain level of abstraction.  This is necessary because the i/o bus on most systems isn't fast enough to transmit the data of every pulse.  Every type of gun has an indeterminate level of hardware abstraction in its design.  It would be possible to make a driver for all light guns from a specific console, but not all light guns.  Mouse input in my opinion is the best way to represent gun input on a computer.  They are both a point-and-click interface, so why reinvent the wheel?  I don't know anything specific about console guns, but assuming your adaptor would even support using it for this function, you would still have to write a windows driver so that your computer can understand the data.  Like, rebel said, that is not mame's job.  It only understands input from the same type of devices windows can understand(i.e. mouse, keyboard, and joystick, or more generally a HID.)

The screen flashes white when you pull the trigger bacause the sensor in the gun is more reliable at detecting white or cyan light than any other color.  Some guns do continuous tracking, but that requires the screen to be pretty bright to work properly.  The gun basically generates a pulse when it sees a pixel being drawn, so white is the easiest to see flash.  There was a more in depth discussion about arcade guns in an earlier thread, so you may want to check it out.  It is pretty interesting actually.
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=23576

Your console gun probably can work.  It probably sends some other data to the computer when you pull the trigger.  From your post, it seems like the adaptor works like a joystick?  So from the same screen you were seeing the trigger on, do you see the axis twitch or anything like that.  If not, I don't know.  You might try to build something like the direct pad pro; then you would get all of the data that the controller sends back.  No clue how it does that though.  You would probably have to look it up someplace, an SDK for the console or something(no clue).  my guess is, that even if you got it working, it would only work properly at resolutions similar to a tv.

[Billkwando]

Wow shadowdrak! I'd like to thank you on various levels for your post....that's alot of useful info...plus the link! I'm working right now (at work) but will examine your post more closely and try to use some of the helpful insights you've shared and reply with something semi useful.

I CAN tell you that "working at TV resolutions" is fine with me....I knew that was going to be an issue in explaining but I've been using TV-Out all along so I should be fine.

Also, it does recognize it as a joypad as you asked, and it uses Mayflash's HID driver for the XBox controller.....more later...

Also, chances are if someone wrote a driver for the PSX gun it would work with PSX and Saturn guns, because my gun is has a connector for both on the plug....so I'd assume the technologies are close if not identical.




On a side note if anyone needs the HID driver for the 40 button Steel Battalion controller it can be found here:
http://www.tamanegi.org/prog/vtchid/

One of the readme files is english so don't worry.....

[Billkwando]

Hi! I got a very useful peice of info about XBox guns from another message board. Quoting post:

What is the yellow wire used for? Allow me to quote "Hacking the XBox" by Bunnie Huang:

"The video sync signal is a 3.3V CMOS or TTL-compatible signal. It is a basic 15.734 kHz positive polarity pulse train synchronized to the horizontal line time of the composite video output, with a single longer pulse at the beginning of every video field. This signal enable peripherals that are pointed at the TV screen, such as a light pen or a light gun for shooting games, to derive position information."

What does this mean? A device that as of yet does not exist would use this signal combined with a lens & photodetector to determine where at the screen you are pointing. I doubt that it will ever be utilized at this point, unless the Linux guys write something to use it.

from url: http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=6134&st=75

Hopefully this helps anyone looking into using an XBox light gun.

[Lilwolf]

As a quick note...

Has anyone looked at possibly using dreamcast guns on a PC?

why?  They work with all main types of monitors (svid/arcademonitors/VGA) and their cheap.

Then you might be able to hack the insides into a real arcade gun instead of trying to get an arcade gun working with a PC.

Just seems like if someone got that solution working (and working well) it would be a one stop solution for ALL CRT types... Even though they usually look a little stupid.

[Bgnome]

As a quick note...

Has anyone looked at possibly using dreamcast guns on a PC?

why?  They work with all main types of monitors (svid/arcademonitors/VGA) and their cheap.

Then you might be able to hack the insides into a real arcade gun instead of trying to get an arcade gun working with a PC.

Just seems like if someone got that solution working (and working well) it would be a one stop solution for ALL CRT types... Even though they usually look a little stupid.

got a link to a DIY DC>PC adapter?

[DarkKobold]

Except that you are forgetting that you still need to write the driver to do the screen flash, to coordinate position, etc.

If you can do that, go ahead!

[temazur]

I'm a lurker and don't post much, but...

What happened?  Any luck getting the thingie to see if anyone could write a driver?  

Tracy

[PacManFan]

I think the best bet would be for someone to actually buy the ULGI interface board. I'm more than willing to code up a driver for it for MAME.

Maybe I could start a paypal donation project.
-PMF

[exibar]

nope, no luck getting one, for development.  I have had a few people let me know that they'd be very happy to donate via PayPal for me to purchase one to write the driver.

  I've had thoughts about this, with Act-Labs supposedly coming out with a new gun very soon, is getting the ULGI working with MAME still something that we all feel would be a good idea?  
  I have a box full of Arcade light guns in my garage that I bought from E-bay.  I don't know how many of them work or not, but I'm sure at least one will work...  My cabinet sitting there really really wanting a gun or two added to it but if it's just a matter of waiting a month and buying the new act-labs gun, that might be the way to go.

  Anyway, let me pose this question to the group.  Is there enough interest in getting the ULGI working to warrent the time to write the driver?  the Board is $160.00, plus you'd have to buy the lightgun(s).  

  Mike B

[PacManFan]

nope, no luck getting one, for development.  I have had a few people let me know that they'd be very happy to donate via PayPal for me to purchase one to write the driver.

  I've had thoughts about this, with Act-Labs supposedly coming out with a new gun very soon, is getting the ULGI working with MAME still something that we all feel would be a good idea?  
  I have a box full of Arcade light guns in my garage that I bought from E-bay.  I don't know how many of them work or not, but I'm sure at least one will work...  My cabinet sitting there really really wanting a gun or two added to it but if it's just a matter of waiting a month and buying the new act-labs gun, that might be the way to go.

  Anyway, let me pose this question to the group.  Is there enough interest in getting the ULGI working to warrent the time to write the driver?  the Board is $160.00, plus you'd have to buy the lightgun(s).  

  Mike B

I think paying 160$ + the cost of lightguns is way too much for a working lightgun setup. I'm positive there must be a better way to interface authentic arcade lightguns to a pc with a simple driver board and software. Would you be willing to loan me a gun to develop with? I've done lots of hardware interface projects with USB before, including a PIC based rotary interface simular to Druins.
    I understand the technology behind the lightgun interface, and I believe I know how to make it work.

Basically, here's my proposed setup:

1) light gun is connemcted to a small microcontroller device, like a PIC or AVR
2) computer is connected to the TV/Arcade Monitor/VGA monitor.
3) in between monitor and computer, there is a connection off of the sync line.
4) the sync line goes to the microcontroller and interfaces with a LM1881 sync separator chip. This device splits the composite sync into separate TTL level Hsync and Vsync lines.
5) When the user points the gun at the screen and pulls the trigger. The microcontroller starts a hi-speed timer.
6) the timer keeps incrementing until light is recieved through the optosensor in the gun.
7) based on the time the trigger was pulled and the time the light was recieved, the microcontroller calculates the delay.
using the hsync and the vsync counts, the microcontroller determines proportunatly where on the screen the gun is pointing.
9) the microcontroller then generates the x/y mouse signals for this position and triggers the "click".

Another variation of this is to make the screen go white when the trigger is pulled to help the gun determine the position.

So, what do you think, will you loan me a lightgun?

-PMF

[exibar]

IM sent...

[Minwah]

I'd almost definately rather have a real arcade gun / interface than an Act labs gun...

But do Act Labs have a new model gun coming out then?

[AndyWarne]

I am planning to look into the possibility of interfacing the Namco-type gun to a PC.
The Namco gun is different to most because it uses a number of sensors mounted around the screen edge. There is a disadvantage of having to mount the sensors but the advantages would be worth it, because there would be no need for any white flash when firing, and a mouse cursor would follow the gun around the screen if visible, ie in Windows.
I will be starting to look at this in a couple of weeks.
Andy Warne

[Minwah]

I am planning to look into the possibility of interfacing the Namco-type gun to a PC.
The Namco gun is different to most because it uses a number of sensors mounted around the screen edge. There is a disadvantage of having to mount the sensors but the advantages would be worth it, because there would be no need for any white flash when firing, and a mouse cursor would follow the gun around the screen if visible, ie in Windows.
I will be starting to look at this in a couple of weeks.

Cool, that sounds great

How many sensors are required around the screen?

[paigeoliver]

I am planning to look into the possibility of interfacing the Namco-type gun to a PC.
The Namco gun is different to most because it uses a number of sensors mounted around the screen edge. There is a disadvantage of having to mount the sensors but the advantages would be worth it, because there would be no need for any white flash when firing, and a mouse cursor would follow the gun around the screen if visible, ie in Windows.
I will be starting to look at this in a couple of weeks.
Andy Warne

Andy, you are SO COOL!

Thanks.

[AndyWarne]

I think the Namco cabs use one in each corner plus one extra at the sides plus two extra on top/bottom.
That is on the very large cabinets though, maybe fewer would work with a small screen.
Andy

[Minwah]

I think the Namco cabs use one in each corner plus one extra at the sides plus two extra on top/bottom.
That is on the very large cabinets though, maybe fewer would work with a small screen.

As long as it works well and it means no white flash then I doubt anyone would mind how many are required!

[vartech]

Hey if someone has the skills this looks like a neat project

http://www.geocities.com/mellott124/VRGunspec.htm


Think about it.  this thing would work on any screen lcd, crt plasma because it is a gyromouse in it


or try this one

http://www.geocities.com/mellott124/VrZ.htm

[jelwell]

.

I am planning to look into the possibility of interfacing the Namco-type gun to a PC.
The Namco gun is different to most because it uses a number of sensors mounted around the screen edge. There is a disadvantage of having to mount the sensors but the advantages would be worth it, because there would be no need for any white flash when firing, and a mouse cursor would follow the gun around the screen if visible, ie in Windows.
I will be starting to look at this in a couple of weeks.
Andy Warne

I'd like to voice my impatience. It almost makes me happy that I can't afford to blow 200$ on two act-labs VGA guns on ebay. This new type of gun interface is excellent, and I'm holding my breath (and money) for someone to release something like it.

Thanks,
Joseph Elwell

[Minwah]

Hey if someone has the skills this looks like a neat project

http://www.geocities.com/mellott124/VRGunspec.htm

Is that Avid Merrion!?!? (sp?)

[vartech]

I am planning to look into the possibility of interfacing the Namco-type gun to a PC.
The Namco gun is different to most because it uses a number of sensors mounted around the screen edge. There is a disadvantage of having to mount the sensors but the advantages would be worth it, because there would be no need for any white flash when firing, and a mouse cursor would follow the gun around the screen if visible, ie in Windows.
I will be starting to look at this in a couple of weeks.
Andy Warne

Andy have you had a chance to work on this?  and how would this interface with a pc?  I found this website are these the parts you are referring to regaring sesors around the screen?
http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/parts/shooting_parts/

[Cuba]

Hey, ive had this thread bookmarked for quite some time. Just wanted to know if there has been any developements between November and now, especially since Andy mentioned he was researching the issue.  Not trying to whine or demand anything, just want to know if anything is in the works.

Also, if such a gun interface were to be completed, wheres the best place to buy namco recoil guns? Coinopexpress sells the pair for $295, but Betson wants $520 for each gun!!!

[M3talhead]

Andy?

[Silver]

I believe he is still planning to look into this. I was asking him for details of the system.

I thought recently of getting hold of the gun setup (the sega one) to have a look as there is a pile of equipment at my work which would be quite handy for this. However, I've not seen any on ebay and the parts I've seen are not very cheap. (I was only after the gun sensor and monitor mounted infra-red LEDs (although technically you need 10 or 12 LEDs + 2 gun sensors (2 guns)...) If anyone has info on where to get these cheap I would LOVE to know so I could take a look.....

However, the reality is that the parts look and probably are very basic and cheap to make, and all the processing is done on the game boards themselves. So in Reality anyone looking at this is basically starting from scratch and will need either a driver or interface chip to process the raw data. If Andy pursues this, which i hope he does, he hopefully will be at an advantage as he already has experience in interfacing raw analogue data via his Cypress microcontrollers (ie the Optipac).

[M3talhead]

...If Andy pursues this, which i hope he does, he hopefully will be at an advantage as has experience in interfacing raw analogue data via his Cypress microcontrollers (Optipac)

.....further establishing himself as a MAME legend.....