Ordered my MAME PC, now to SlikStik!

[HeadRusch]

Guys, I just ordered the components for my new MAME Cab.......FIC motherboard is going to be running 256 megs of ram with an Athlon 1700+ XP processor.

Now, my next purchase is going to be a SlikStik.  however, the jury is still out on what I want...my main problem is this:
I can't think of many games that would require me to have a trackball beyond missile command and crystal castles.  (Dont even mention Marble Madness).

Am I missing something here?  I could save a few bucks by abstaining from the trackball.
I like the idea of their dual-joystick model...note, not the $600+ 4 player model, but the one that allows 2 people to play Smash TV, robotron, etc......you could get a 4 player game of gauntlet, or a 3 player game of Final Fight, or a 4 player game of TMNT or XMEN going if you wanted..plenty of extra buttons to remap for that purpose.

HOWEVER....i'd change the layout a bit.........but tell me, what will I lose by ditching the trackball......Crystal Castles, Centepede......Cabal.....those are all thats coming to mind...

[JustMichael]

For the price of a Slik Stik you may want to investigate getting an I-PAC and some joysticks and buttons from Bob and then building your own.

[Tiger-Heli]

HOWEVER....i'd change the layout a bit.........but tell me, what will I lose by ditching the trackball......Crystal Castles, Centepede......Cabal.....those are all thats coming to mind...

Golfing games, bowling games, rampart . . .

My thoughts:  Personally, there are enough two-player trackball games that I would want dual trackballs, which slickstik doesn't offer.

And I agree with JustMichael, Slickstik sounds like a solid product, but especially if you want to change the layout anyway, I would seriously look at buying and building your own.  Plenty of help on this site to get you started.

That said, I understand that time is more of an issue than money for some people, and if you don't have access to tools, you might spend more on your own panel than on the slickstik, but, you'll have EXACTLY what you want.

[Dink]

For the price of a Slik Stik you may want to investigate getting an I-PAC and some joysticks and buttons from Bob and then building your own.

I can't beat the price of the SlikStik building it myself.  What is your time worth?

Seriously, ordering parts from 3-4 manufacturers (ultramarc, happs, wico, bobroberts, oscarcontrols) plus shipping from each. You hope nothing is broke and you receive all items.  Plus going to home depot for screws, glue, solder, spades, saw blades, formica, t-molding, router bits, the list goes on.  Not to mention the polish of a completed slikstik vs. what I could build.

Do a spreadsheet of the costs to build one of the slikstik classics (plus shipping +$35) and put in 50-75 bucks for your time.  I found out I'd be $ bucks in the hole.

[chanson]

You are correct.  IF you want all of the controls exactly like the SlikStick has them.  I personally think that the 3" HAPP trackball with that interface is way too much.  All depends on what you want.

Some of us have a lot of fun with the tools in the workshop doing it our own way.  Some of us hacked a keyboard at least once just for the challenge.  Some of us are really wierd.  Oh well, at least all of us enjoy playing the great games!

[JustMichael]

Dink, adding in the cost of buying tools I can see why you say that but for those of us that already have the necessary tools I still think building the control panel yourself is the way to go.  You can say with pride that you made it (besides building it is half the fun...   ).

[HeadRusch]

Actually, I'm in total agreement: SlickStik will build the perfect arcade slab for about what it would cost me to do it myself...after adding up the cost of tools, materials, and time....considering I'm neither a carpenter nor an electronics tinkerer, and I'd screw up a few things..a few times.....I'd wind up pretty close to what they're asking.

And my results would suck a whole lot more

Better to pay them to do it right the first time, and save myself weeks of agrivation messing stuff up, going "D'OH! I shoulda done it that way..", etc, etc.
This way I can focus on the cab, PC, setups, etc....

[BombProofPlane]

there goes another lazy moron this must be why slikstick still exists

[HeadRusch]

Lazy Moron?  

Lets See.........I can either pay the money up front and have the control panel that I want delivered right to my door.

Or  I can buy all the components, spend all the time building up what I want, probably wind up spending just as much if not more money in the process since I haven't done anything like this before, and in the end wind up with a control board that looks maybe half as good as the ones that SlickStick sells.

Huh......well the only moron here my friend is you.  Either you're bitter because they beat you to the marketing idea, or you can't afford their stuff.  Otherwise I can't figure out a reason why you'd want to crap on someone who wants to do business with them.

[Howard_Casto]

Actually although those are rather harsh words I agree that buying controls is the cheap way out and building your own is the only way to go.  See the Build Your Own Arcade Controls at the top?  Where is the buy in that statement?  When you order pre-made controls people think your just a loser who has too much money to spend.  When you build your own setup, although some people still think your a loser, they can at least appreciate the craftsmanship and hard work that you've put into your hobby.  If you buy the contols then it isn't a hobby.  A hobby requires actual time and effort, not the ability to order via pay-pal.  When you build your own controls you get the satisfaction of knowing that you did that yourself. When you buy them your probably not interested enough in this activity to truely appreciate it anyway.

We aren't simply gamers, we are retrogamers.  We don't do it to have just another fancy controller, we do it to recreate a part of the past.  We don't do it because it's practical and cost effective, we do it because it's the right thing to do.  

Do the right thing....   Friends don't let friends purchase pre-made, commerical, hack-jobs.  

Only you can prevent the spreading of lamers and wanna-be's.  

Come on? Won't you help me take a bite, outta ungrateful newbs?

(ok I'm done )

[HeadRusch]

hehehehe you guys are great.  Must be after all the bashing that the real Retro-Collectors give you for trashing original cabs or something.......

I didn't realize this place was so full of "do it my way or get the f-out" nazis........I came here looking for info on a potential purchase, and discovered that it really will cost me as much in parts, equipment, and time as it would to purchase through slikstik, and boy..some people here just dont like that. !?!?!

I Guess I can understand it though.

A few years ago this was a fringe hobby, but today the interest is much greater, and lots of people have cobbled together a cheap-assed cab with a pair of joysticks and a couple of buttons from Happs.  Naturally all those folks who put hard work into their boxes and spent thousands suddenly resent the fact that a company is actually selling the control panels that so many spent so long trying to get together the right way, trying to save people like me the trouble.  OH yeah.......there must be a LOT of resentment

Sadly, I don't own a router.....or have a huge workbench where I can apply Laminates correctly, or for that matter do I have that much time to spend accomplishing that task.
I guess unlike some of you I have enough between job and life and *maybe* want to sneak in a little retrogaming in on the side, but this club only allows do it yourselfers.
Well, those of you who feel that way, F-U.

I guess if I ever decide to buy a SlikStik product and customize it I'll find someplace else to look for info on the subject.

Pretty soon this elite group of ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- will break off into ones that laugh at dudes who use pre-built interfaces I'll bet.  "Hahaha, you don't h4ck Keyboards!? hahaha YOU LOZER!"
Sad, really sad.........this place certainly has changed from a few years ago.

[Lilwolf]

Building your own is a great hobby.  Building it where you can swap control panels allows that hobby to continue for a LONG time.

But the slikstick isn't that bad priced.  I think it's better then the xbox in that you get SO much more  for the difference and they use great items.

But it's easy.  He tells you exactly what you get.  Go look up the prices if you want and see if it's worth your time to do it yourself.

the best part.  Is in a year if you build a cabinet or want to change things, you have all the standard great parts to move to any panel you want.

And theres no room on this board for name calling.  

[OSCAR]

Heh, I must be a sinner

[MrArcade]

I have built many cabs...and I will say that the slikstik is not overpriced.  Yes you would save some $$ doing it yourself...but the reality is...you can always decide later to pull all the components and make your own enclosure...laying it out to your preferences...or use the components in a cab build.

The plus is that you get it NOW and you can mess with it LATER.

If time is tight....you have the money....and want to enjoy the games now...the slikstik it a good investment.

[Howard_Casto]

hehehehe you guys are great.  Must be after all the bashing that the real Retro-Collectors give you for trashing original cabs or something.......

Umm No I don't think so... I am also STRONGLY against mame-ing cabs.  Once again I BUILD my cabs and control panels from scratch, I don't convert because it can destroy a perfectly good cab and the spirit of this hobby is to preserve the past, not negate it.  I don't buy because it takes the fun out of it and misses the point.  Now if it was my 4th or 5th  cab I might take the cheap way out, but never on my first.

As for resentment, it's more like pitty.  Lately we have been plagued with, well how do I put this nicely....... really bad cab submissions.  (Please no one take that personally, there have been some good one's inbetween too.)  Why?  Well you have a noob who takes a crappy arcade cab and converts it to make a crappy mame cab with a hack job for controls, or a noob who takes a arcade cab that's in great shape and throws an ugly purple hotrod in it, which ruins the look of the cab.  The second is the worst of the two as not only does he do a conversion that takes practially no work, but he decides that it's good enough to actually submit, like he was actually involved in any part of the construction, not to mention uglifying a classic cab in the process.  You can make a good conversion and you can design a good cab around a prefab, but lately the newer generation of cabs haven't pulled either off very well.  Personally I think the only way you can make a really stellar cab is to build it custom or have someone help you build it custom, so it's yours, and not dataeast's or hanho's vision of the ultimate cab.      

I'm not saying slikstik is bad, I'm not saying it's overpriced or not worth the money.  I'm saying it's a bad choice for noobs and they should build as much as possible by hand or else they won't appreciate the hobby, or the games played with the results.  

"I want it now without work" Is totally against the spirit of retrogaming.  These are the same type of people who only build a cab to play the newer sf style games and think older, more classic, games are garbage.  In my opinion those who don't appreciate the past don't deserve mame, or arcade controls, or even pre-fabbed setups like the slik-stik.  I have no problem with a solid, honest, product, merely the true reasoning behind buying it.  

[HeadRusch]

Ah, well here I will respectufully disagree with your position.

See, to me the fun of retrogaming is about actually playing the games.  It has absolutely nothing to do with "look at how I tricked out that cool joystick".  In this particular case, I dont believe the fun is in the journey, to me the fun of retrogaming is in the gaming, not the whiz-bang carpentry.  

I know what you mean about "crappy cabs".....I know its a labor of love and everyone that submitted a pic is still heads and shoulders above what I would put together..............but that is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I don twant to invest blood, sweat and tears knowing that I'm JONESING to just play the cab.  I'd cut corners, I'd rush the job, and I'd wind up with the crappy cab in the end.

In fact, I wasn't even going to build a cabinet at all.  I was thinking of doing some sort of custom TV stand, I mean, sure it would look like some far-out videogame machine in the end, but it might not have the typical "boxy" look of your average cabinet.  

I guess I don't believe in following rules when it comes to things like hobbies.  Its a hobby, thats all......it should bring you pleasure in between the gruling hell that is work
I respect those that "glorify the classics"..that would never gut a classic cab, etc, etc...I also have the utmost respect for those who take the time to do their own controls, cabs, etc.
But frankly I have no respect for anyone, no matter how talented, that shits on another person because they might not share the same opinion.........

I wouldn't go to someones house who has a cab with a hotrod glued to the front and go "Man that sucks, you loser do it right!"....yet its clear to see some folks here have that kind of attitude. I think sometimes peopl etake their hobbies a little too seriously.
I love classic games, and I also love modern games...........and I think in the end life is too short to be so zealous about a hobby.

[nullb0y]

Ok No one here is wrong because in each your own way your right retro gaming is what you want it to be not what some one else says it should just like everything in life if i thoght that way i would never have done anything good in my entire lifew id be anouther faceless s.o.b.

im making a quick junky controller foir now because i neither have the time place money ect for a mame cab nor do i have an extra pc to sac for it so the way i figure i9t ifi can play the games i loved to plkay in the arcade with arcade controlls it would feel almost like i was still a kid at the mall or the roller rink playing games like tron after burner and donkey kong so for now ill settle with just a lap control pannel the cheapest way i can because thats the way i want it not the way you want it

dont kill other people wants with your own its not right please just help i hate it when people cant see beyond there own wants to help some one else and b***h at them thats wrong if you dont want to help dont post lol yeah
::wates for hate mail and b***hing::

oh yeah im an idiot so i just made you a bit stupider...

[MrArcade]

Umm No I don't think so... I am also STRONGLY against mame-ing cabs.  Once again I BUILD my cabs and control panels from scratch, I don't convert because it can destroy a perfectly good cab and the spirit of this hobby is to preserve the past, not negate it.  I don't buy because it takes the fun out of it and misses the point.  Now if it was my 4th or 5th  cab I might take the cheap way out, but never on my first.

And now for a reality check....

   Few of us have the room to store hundreds of cabinets.  The operators are not going to store them.  If someone takes a cabinet and installs mame (hopefully keeping the cabinet so it can be converted back)...at least they are saving the cabinet from a coat of black paint and jamma art.  I do not like to see cabs like Star Wars or Dragon's Lair converted....but I would rather see it in someone's living room as a mame cab than see it in a dump...or converted by an op to a jamma game.

   Ideally, rare and collectible games should be restored...but at least these cabinets are in someone's home.  I will make my statement again....many of these cabinets are bought at auction.  Someone with plans to restore could have won the bid...but obviously it was not worth enough to them.  I currently have a really nice Berzerk cab.  I will end up mameing it.  I have offered it to several guys that wanted to install Berzerk back into it.  None of them thought the cab was worth $75.  It is worth more than $75 to me as a nice shell for a mamer...but I was willing to sell it for less to preserve it.  These guys thought I should just GIVE it to them!  I traded a super Omega Race cabinet that was complete but had major acid damge for an empty conversion cab...and I mean empty...no cp, no bezel, nothing.  When I needed a favor was that guy willing to help me out...no.

   I still do favors for guys I know...and still help out new collectors from time to time...but I will not give someone nice original cabs just for the principle of it.  I just convert them without harming the cabinet....so it can be restored later if desired.

[Howard_Casto]

dont kill other people wants with your own its not right please just help i hate it when people cant see beyond there own wants to help some one else and b***h at them thats wrong if you dont want to help dont post lol yeah
::wates for hate mail and b***hing::

oh yeah im an idiot so i just made you a bit stupider...

Why don't you look at the 61 posts next to your name and the 600+ posts next to my name and decide which person has most likely helped the most people out.  I'm not b8tching, I am trying to express my view, if you can't stand real criticism instead of this "kinder gentler" bs people do now then I truely am sorry.  I say what is on my mind, I don't sugar coat it.  You dont' have to agree with what I say, your just going to hear it.  I have an obligation to get people to respect this hobby, and I have to make people at least understand beyond just the free games like the warez pups they are, and realize that arcade games are more than just a fun game.  I'm sure some people think the mona lisa is a piece of junk, well to me each cabinet and the game inside it are a work of art.  I know some people don't feel this way and that's ok, but I do.  I'm sorry that your offended.  

As for you mrA I think you were missing my point. As I stated quite clearly you can make a good, respectable conversion, but the fact is people aren't anymore.  If you remove the orignal artwork, hack in some gaudy cp and other butchering nonsense then it's not the orignal cab anyway, it's been destroyed.  Then it might as well be in a dumpster as they've killed it.  And your right a lot of collectors aren't willing to fork over the cash, but that doesn't make it right.  I'll agree that a mamed cab is better than no cab, but only if the orignal artwork and theme of the cab is kept in tact, if not then it's ruined anyway so it doesn't matter what is done with it.    

[nullb0y]

well see i like yopuer opinion if i was given a cab of some game i never played and the boards were fryed id probly mame it but i would try to make the origonal look stay the same so that its a origonal looking thing that gives a more arcade feel and makes the game more well likeable lol but i really dont like somne of the mame cabs ive seen alot of em are great though umm yeah i forgot heh ok im done lol i didnt say u b***hed sorry lol i like the borard but alot of [people take things other people say and b***h like i did heh sorry lol

[Howard_Casto]

well see i like yopuer opinion if i was given a cab of some game i never played and the boards were fryed id probly mame it but i would try to make the origonal look stay the same so that its a origonal looking thing that gives a more arcade feel and makes the game more well likeable lol but i really dont like somne of the mame cabs ive seen alot of em are great though umm yeah i forgot heh ok im done lol i didnt say u b***hed sorry lol i like the borard but alot of [people take things other people say and b***h like i did heh sorry lol

It's cool man, just for future reference....  This is one of the most tolerant message boards on the net, period.  We love noobs and love to help out each other, which is much more than I can say for some other sites.  There are only two things that tick some (not all) of us off.  

#1  Don't tell us about how your going to mame a mint condition star wars cab.

#2 Don't tell us how your going to take that same cab and put a hotrod in it in palce of the yoke, having to cut a huge hole inteh front of the cab to make it fit.  

If you would have told us ahead of time that it was a stand-alone project then you probably wouldn't have gotten flamed by some of our more hot-head members.

[rampy]

It's cool man, just for future reference....  This is one of the most tolerant message boards on the net, period.  We love noobs and love to help out each other, which is much more than I can say for some other sites.  There are only two things that tick some (not all) of us off.  

Although, sometimes I think we could really use a grammer-nazi on this board. (not directed at anyone in this thread in particular).  

Some of the comments I've been seeing lately are darn near unreadable.

Sometimes it  ain't even the grammer, just the lack of white space...   (everybody was venting - so I thought I'd vent to, albeit off topic)

rampy

[nullb0y]

  :'(if some one destroyed a mint starwars cab id be very very upset

[HeadRusch]

More devils advocate:

Why *not* wreck a Star Wars cab.

I mean, seriously, I'd convert a Star Wars cab to a mame box......I might not destroy the side art or anything, but beyond that its a big hollow box made of MDF or Particle Board.  Lets not over-glorify this stuff.

I love the idea of saving games.......I personally have space for 3 or 4 cabs, and right now I have none.

The problem then becomes what unique game do I want in a cab thats going to take up that much space and be hard as hell to get into, and out of, my house?
Perhaps some really old school games.  I might want a stand-alone SEAWOLF or SeawolfII, but anything other than that? Not sure..........

I'd love to find a nice sized cab with original side art......and turn it into a Liquor Cabinet or something

[Dink]

I'd love to find a nice sized cab with original side art......and turn it into a Liquor Cabinet or something

Me sense some trolling from HeadRusch...  

---

You know what's funny is you can see this same discussion over in the the car classics forum.  Guys buying completed cars vs. the guys that fix them up.

Then you get down to the guys that are putting air conditioning in a classic car that didn't have it to begin with.  (There is extra cutting/modifying on the original vehicle to get it to work.)  Oh my gawd, the collectors come unglued.

It's a good thing we all don't have the same desires and the same opinions.  Then you'd all own an ArcadeWerX from HanaHo (that's a joke).

I think it's a shock to some when they figure out we all don't think alike and they try to convert you to their way of thinking and it doesn't work.

[HeadRusch]

I need a Lunar Lander......thats probably one of the few games I'd play every time I walked by it.  Just to see if I could land that stupid ship without dumping more quarters into it

Never give a 10 year old kid a huge "thruster throttle".  FULL THROTTLE!

Hmmmm......liquor cabinet.........now *that* is an idea.

[brandon]

Hmmmm......liquor cabinet.........now *that* is an idea.

hehehe, yeah that is a good idea,  I mean what the hell, its your cabinet.  It's nobody's business what you do with it.  I've seen people frame the backglass off a pinball machine and hang it on their wall.  What's wrong with that?  I mean if the cab is gutted and you can't restore it then get creative, its still preservation and recycling in some form and better than it being in a dump.  

[CthulhuLuke]

Heh, I must be a sinner

[Magnet_Eye]

"I want it now without work" Is totally against the spirit of retrogaming.

That's total BS! It's RetroGaming, not RetroBuilding. I don't remember going out to an arcade and having to build anything to play games. It was instant gratification. Insert coin and play. Since when does RetroGaming mean you have to have a bunch of tools, wood glue and paint in order to be a part of it? It's about remembering and playing the classics anyway you can.

I think some of these sticks-in-the-mud need to chill out and refrain from flaming people that want to do things their way. This board is called "Build your Own Arcade Controls," yes, but that's because this board was up before hotrod and slikstick made pre-built arcade controls. The board has changed. Some of the dinosaurs need to upgrade their attitudes on this board and accept the fact that pre-made controls are part of this whole deal. Just like an Oscar spinner. I wouldn't doubt some of you flaming dinosaurs have bought one of these, rather than build your own. Did you guys build your PC's from scratch too? Did you go out and cut down a tree and make your own lumber as well?

heheh. Anyway, If someone wants to buy pre-made controls, power to them!

Sometimes I want to just go out and buy a hamburger and enjoy it, rather than put in the effort to buy all the ingredients and build it myself. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate hamburgers.

-M

[james]

The board has changed. Some of the dinosaurs need to upgrade their attitudes on this board and accept the fact that pre-made controls are part of this whole deal. Just like an Oscar spinner. I wouldn't doubt some of you flaming dinosaurs have bought one of these, rather than build your own. Did you guys build your PC's from scratch too? Did you go out and cut down a tree and make your own lumber as well?

How is building a spinner taking the easy pre-built way out? That's like saying how many of you design your own pushbuttons or how many of you make your own microswitches?

None of us do, but there's just really 2 different attitudes here.

theres the do it yourselfer, who probably will do everything in his cabinet custom, yes down to the pc from scratch

and then theres the buy it enjoy it mentality, those whom buy 90% of the job, and maybe maybe not come out with good results.

do i care about the second mentality? no, there usually just making everyone else's projects look better by showing their crappy cabinet.


to address the changing of byoac

last time i checked, how many sections were dominated by people actually building cabs/controls, and how many sections are there for the buyer people? people whom buy dont need to be here, 95% of the people here dont care about any comment you'll make about slikstik or hotrod or whatever. they're fine products im sure, and people can buy them with my full blessing, just dont expect to get a dozen sections dominated by how to buy your own arcade controls

< / rant >

[Starscream]

HeadRusch,

Have you considered getting a slikstik blank.
http://www.slikstik.com/blankfeatures.htm

I've been thinking about getting one of these then doing all the wiring myself.

So I still get to fiddle with all the wires, buttons and joysticks (ie the good stuff) but I don't have to learn carpentry or buy routers and the like.

[Howard_Casto]

The board has changed. Some of the dinosaurs need to upgrade their attitudes on this board and accept the fact that pre-made controls are part of this whole deal. Just like an Oscar spinner. I wouldn't doubt some of you flaming dinosaurs have bought one of these, rather than build your own. Did you guys build your PC's from scratch too? Did you go out and cut down a tree and make your own lumber as well?

How is building a spinner taking the easy pre-built way out? That's like saying how many of you design your own pushbuttons or how many of you make your own microswitches?

None of us do, but there's just really 2 different attitudes here.

theres the do it yourselfer, who probably will do everything in his cabinet custom, yes down to the pc from scratch

and then theres the buy it enjoy it mentality, those whom buy 90% of the job, and maybe maybe not come out with good results.

do i care about the second mentality? no, there usually just making everyone else's projects look better by showing their crappy cabinet.


to address the changing of byoac

last time i checked, how many sections were dominated by people actually building cabs/controls, and how many sections are there for the buyer people? people whom buy dont need to be here, 95% of the people here dont care about any comment you'll make about slikstik or hotrod or whatever. they're fine products im sure, and people can buy them with my full blessing, just dont expect to get a dozen sections dominated by how to buy your own arcade controls

< / rant >

Finally someone with sense

<cheap plug> For the record the oscar spinners are wonderful, reasonably priced, products, made with tlc for you to enjoy.  And don't forget about those great restrictor plates and the big suprise coming up. In fact you should go to www.oscarcontrols.com on order a bunch right now. </cheap plug>

Seriously though, I agree that the spinner remark is rather silly.  You don't see people building the actual 8-way joysticks do you?  It's the same thing.  

Regarding the "changing of byoac":

It hasn't changed at all.  There were always noobs that would pop up and say "but I'm too lazy/busy/(insert excuse here) to make my own controls.. can't I just buy them pre-made or would you build them for me?  The only difference now is we can refer them to the pre-mades and they think that buying a pre-made so that they will stop bugging us.
Unfortunately they think that means they have earned the right to say that they've built their own and that sticking it in an old cabinet merits it's own webpage, or even some recognition what-so-ever.

I'm not saying that there is anything particularly wrong with that it's just that demanding the same credit and respect of people that actually did do the work is ridiculous.

What made me so mad about this thread orignally wasn't the slikstick, it was the title of the thread with the "I'm gonna buy a SLICKSTICK!!"  The title alone pissed me off.  Not that buying a slickstick is something to be ashamed of, but it's definately not something to be proud of.  Anyway it went from there and it's not really a big thing it turns out, in this case, at least.

And I can understand how some of the noobs and the lamers and wanna-bes think we are being harsh and stubborn but let's put it this way:

Lets say there is this model boat forum that all the hobbyists frequent. These guys are hardcore... they build boats in a bottle, they use kits with several thousand pieces, sometimes even carving a boat from scratch.  Now lets say some guy all bright eyed and bushy tailed finds a site that sells very detailed model boat replicas.  This same guy, meaning well posts in big boldness, that this site sells boats that are cheaper to buy then it is to make the models, not only that but he feels that the replicas ae superior to anything he could build and thus chooses to buy. Not only that but he mods (quite easily and badly)  his very expensive, semi rare replica and claims that he did as much work as the other guys.  Then he posts how great his boat is and claims that he's a model boat enthusist.  Can you understand why many of the regulars would be upset with this guy?  So why is it so easy to get in this context but not when it comes to arcade cabs?  

[kgriffin]

Noobs, lamers, wannabe's, crappy cabinets?

How many posts do I need and exactly what kind of control panel do I need to build so I am not a lamer. And while I'm at it, what exactly constitutes a "crappy" cabinet.

Maybe you should get the webmasters here to section out the cool cabinets from the crappy ones on the examples page, that way no one else will become a loser and do something that a wannabe would do.

You guys should go back and read your posts, take a deep breath and think about how old you are.

[Howard_Casto]

Noobs, lamers, wannabe's, crappy cabinets?

How many posts do I need and exactly what kind of control panel do I need to build so I am not a lamer. And while I'm at it, what exactly constitutes a "crappy" cabinet.

Maybe you should get the webmasters here to section out the cool cabinets from the crappy ones on the examples page, that way no one else will become a loser and do something that a wannabe would do.

You guys should go back and read your posts, take a deep breath and think about how old you are.

I am 22 years old and I am NOT politically correct.  If I don't like something I'll tell you to your face like a man.  There are crappy cabinets and it's quite obvious which ones they are.  My intention isn't to hurt people's feelings though,  so I don't right out and point and laugh but if someone asks me I will give a honest opinion.  

And there are lamers and wanna be's in this hobby just like there is for any activity.  

The lamer can be defined as someone who is an apprentice but talks as if he were a master, or alternatively one who is willing to take the benfits without considering the costs.

A wanna-be is someone who wants to get credit but doesn't want to do the work.  Alternatively a wanna be is someone who likes the idea but never follows through (mainly because he isn't that dedicated) but yet still claims to, to gain acceptance.  

Notice that I didn't say anything about the quality of the end result.  It's not the destination, it's the journey that is important.  People with the best of intentions can still make a crappy cab.  That doesn't make them a lamer or wanna be, that just makes them bad at cab making.  Also lamers and wanna be's can sometimes end up buying/rigging a really nice cab, but they are still lamers and wanna-bes. It's all about the attitute and the respect of the process involved, not the end result.

[Tiger-Heli]

Noobs, lamers, wannabe's, crappy cabinets?

How many posts do I need and exactly what kind of control panel do I need to build so I am not a lamer. And while I'm at it, what exactly constitutes a "crappy" cabinet.

Maybe you should get the webmasters here to section out the cool cabinets from the crappy ones on the examples page, that way no one else will become a loser and do something that a wannabe would do.

You guys should go back and read your posts, take a deep breath and think about how old you are.

Interesting, I never thought of myself as a lamer or wannabe before.  I try to post as much helpful info on this site as I can.  Read on . . .

The lamer can be defined as someone who is an apprentice but talks as if he were a master, or alternatively one who is willing to take the benfits without considering the costs.

To paraphrase, I take the heart of your comment here to be "A lamer is someone who buys a pre-built (insert favorite pre-made controller here) b/c he's too lazy to build something himself"  (In your words, take the benefits without considering the costs).

I basically agree with your definition, but I don't think HeadRusch really fits this definition.  But I think most people, including HeadRusch and Dink, do consider the cost before buying a controller.

As an example, in another thread, I am considering using pre-hacked USB gamepads instead of buying an I-PAC.  I know the cost of each.  And I know the gamepad will possibly cost more but give me more useful functionality.  I am not planning to hack the pads myself, b/c I know I would screw up the soldering.  Am I a lamer b/c I don't buy 20 pads at $2 each and screw up 19 of them (and miscellaneous PC hardware) until I learn to solder, rather than paying $10.00 for someone else to solder the pads?  Depends on your definition.

I personally expect my desktop controller to cost more and not look as good as a Hot Rod or SlikStik controller.  It will have some functionality that the pre-mades don't offer, and is cheaper to build than having them customize it.

Now, if I sat down and considered all the games I planned to play and discovered that the HotRod has the exact configuration that I was looking for and was on sale for $99.00 and I considered building one and took a lot of shortcuts and got my cost down to $140.00 and realize that the end result won't look as good as the HotRod, am I a lamer for buying one?  I wouldn't think so. . .

To me a lamer would be the (rare) guy that says "Gosh, I have all the tools to build a controller, I have the cabinet making skills, I can get the parts at discount, I have plenty of time on my hands and enjoy working with wood and electronics, I would want it to be just like the HotRod, but I'll buy it from them b/c I don't want to bother with building one."

A wanna-be is someone who wants to get credit but doesn't want to do the work.  Alternatively a wanna be is someone who likes the idea but never follows through (mainly because he isn't that dedicated) but yet still claims to, to gain acceptance.  

I probably qualify as a wanna-be.  The only thing I've actually built is an arcade steering wheel that I taped a mouse circuit board to to make it work with the PC.  Is that a bad thing?  Does it mean that I don't know the answer to a lot of question and can't post useful info on this board?  Well no . . .  So . . .

Notice that I didn't say anything about the quality of the end result.  It's not the destination, it's the journey that is important.  People with the best of intentions can still make a crappy cab.  That doesn't make them a lamer or wanna be, that just makes them bad at cab making.  Also lamers and wanna be's can sometimes end up buying/rigging a really nice cab, but they are still lamers and wanna-bes. It's all about the attitute and the respect of the process involved, not the end result.

Hoping to start building my crappy controller soon . . .  

[kgriffin]

Wants to get credit? For what? Is this message board a shrine for worshipping people who know how to use a router? Loving old arcade games has NOTHING to do with the ability to hack a mouse.

I know this board is called BYOAC, but it also has a board called buy/sell and trade, software forum etc... That being said, I think it is pretty obvious that this place isn't only for people who build. It is a community of people who love arcade games, period.

The only credit I want is for my friends and family to have fun when they come over. The LAST thing I am looking for is to get some sort of psuedo-ego lift, by completing a cabinet and have people look at the pictures of it, lift me on their shoulders and chant my name. I want to play games on it.

By the way, I did build my own controls, but I used the existing panel on my cabinet to do it. So with that in mind, which category do I fall in?

Also, look at this thread and the content the posts. You will see that the number of posts beside your name have nothing to do with how much help you have given.

Let me define some of your terms back:

Noobs - someone who shares the same interest as you, but did not stumble on to is as early as you did. EVERYONE was / is a noob at one point in this hobby.

Lamer - someone who puts people down who share a similar interest as you because they don't fit into your "cool" clique or they bought a part instead of making one.

Wannabe - someone who is financially challenged to the point that their only outlet to be included in this hobby is to get into conversations with people who "built" and hope one day to be able to build one themselves.

Who gives out the apprentice / master certificates? Can I get one? It says full member under my name, so I think I deserve some of these accolades that some of you seem to be getting.

Watching my son laugh while playing Jungle Hunt is much more satisfying than any post congratulating me on a great soldering job.

I own a Harley. I am in a club with people who bought as well as people who built. When we park our bikes, we all walk around and admire ALL the bikes and shake the hands of the people who own them. We dont separate into groups and make fun of the other groups.

I don't mind anyone being "politically incorrect". The only problem is, who is judging the criteria? Who decides who is lame, or which cabinets are crappy?

I graduated from highschool in 84 and left that teenage crap behind me when I became a man. What you are doing is no different than making fun of the kids at school who had to ride the bus instead of driving a new Camaro bought by their parents.

Actually, I take back what I said about wanting my master certificate. I prefer to hang out with the lamers and losers instead.

[kgriffin]

Oh yeah, I forgot:

"I am 22 years old and I am NOT politically correct.  If I don't like something I'll tell you to your face like a man."

If you consider posting on a message board "telling it to my face like a man" then you have some serious issues.

Generally speaking, people who flame on message boards are passive aggressive's that DONT tell it to peoples faces like men. They take it all day long, and let it out on message boards before they explode.

IMHO

[HeadRusch]

I suppose now would be a good time to indicate I'm on the fence right now about wether or not to buy a SlikStik.  I know for a fact I'm going to be building my own controls now, I'm just not sure if If thats going to be in addition to the SlikStik or if I just go all out and do my own.  I've had a change of heart lately and decided that I need to slow down and think out what I want....buying the control panel first would be a bad move, better for me to find...or build..or have built..a cab first that will hold the control panel.

But man, you dinosaurs need to lighten the hell up, I think.  You don't ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on someone else's ideas because its not quite what you did.  I mean, why are you spitting on people who might buy a pre-made item?  Its not junk, its not crap..........its using the same parts that everyone else here uses.....its not ridiculously overpriced when you factor in the parts you get, the job thats done, and the time involved........and yet, if you buy it, you're a wannabe? You're a lamer? You're a loser who doesn't deserve to get answers to their questions? Pfeh.....two initials: F and U

The words here are "Elitist Snob".  These are people, in every hobby (I own a Mustang Cobra and let me tell you there are some ---tallywhacker----head nazis in that bunch as well, just as soon shoot you if you try to put an aftermarket shifter on your car)......and there are definately a few lurking here.

Am I a noob? No...not to mame, been using it for years.  I've built my own PC's for years.......what I AM a noob to is carpentry.  A soldering iron and some wire I can figure out. I can also drill some holes, and get them lined up on a piece of wood.  But when it comes to laminating, or using a router, or getting plexiglass cut and shaped the way I need it, I see two things: Alot of tools that I dont have, and alot of skills that I down presently have either.

And yet I want to enjoy MAME with real arcade controls.  Do I build my own, which will require buying a bunch of tools, breaking some stuff in trial and error, etc, investing the time its going to take to do things slowly and correctly.......OR....do I buy something premade?

Again........what is wrong with SlikStik?  SlikStik is going to be the answer to a LOT of peoples prayers.

No.....I think what we have here is just Ego clashing at work.  Sounds to me like some folks don't like SlikStik because its going to allow "everyone" to have a good looking set of controls.  And if those folks drill into the thing and add another spinner, and say "check out my custom board" some folks are going to go "Hey cool, you're modifying a slikstik, good job!"......and another group is goign to go "THATS NOT CUSTOM, GET OFF OUR BOARD YOU LOSER!".

*sigh*

Well anyhow I'll look to the advice and guidance of the more moderately tempered folks here...I think alot of people here would have considered buying a pre-made if they had existed three years ago, but they didn't, so you had to make your own.  

I can understand if SlikStik was a ripoff junk product pretending to be the answer, but from what I see they make a quality product.  So.......again.....the problem is....what?

ps: If a title of a post "pisses you off", you need to seek some help.  All I asked originally was wether or not I really needed to get the trackball on the stupid thing.

[Tiger-Heli]

Well said, further comments below:

I know this board is called BYOAC, but it also has a board called buy/sell and trade, software forum etc... That being said, I think it is pretty obvious that this place isn't only for people who build. It is a community of people who love arcade games, period.

Again, well said!

The only credit I want is for my friends and family to have fun when they come over. The LAST thing I am looking for is to get some sort of psuedo-ego lift, by completing a cabinet and have people look at the pictures of it, lift me on their shoulders and chant my name. I want to play games on it.

Playing devil's advocate here  OTOH, I plan on buying paint and formica for my desktop controller.  While the Formica offers protection, the paint is pretty unnecessary, and even the front and rear panels aren't "required"  If ALL I wanted was to play games, I would mount the buttons to a 2 foot by 1 foot slab of MDF, nail a couple of 2x4's vertically under the sides and go on.  Fact is, I kinda like for people to think it's neat and looks really cool, but you're also right that the main purpose is to play the games.

Who gives out the apprentice / master certificates?

I was wondering that from Howard's post also!

I graduated from highschool in 84 and left that teenage crap behind me when I became a man. What you are doing is no different than making fun of the kids at school who had to ride the bus instead of driving a new Camaro bought by their parents.

You're a year younger than I am.  FWIW, actually Howard is making fun of the both the kids who had to ride the bus and the kids driving the new Camaro bought by them, instead of the ones who built their own '68 Camaro and souped it up to smoke the new one into the weeds.  Point taken, though.

Actually, I take back what I said about wanting my master certificate. I prefer to hang out with the lamers and losers instead.

That was kinda the point of my last post.  I think I fall into the wannabe and lamer definition from Howard's post.  I'm still here.  I don't plan to leave.  Welcome to the lamer clique.

[Goose]

I agree with everything you said Kgriffin.  

There are some people on this board (Howard among others) who believe they have a right to force their opinion on everyone else.  I don't recall anyone appointing them to police our hobby and ridicule anyone who doesn't share a certain belief.  

I'm also a strong believer that there is no such thing as a bad cabinet.  If someone is happy with their cabinet and thinks it is great, then I am totally happy for them.  Isn't that why we are making our cabinets?  For our own enjoyment.  I didn't think our cabinets in the examples page were going to be judged.  I thought the examples page was a place for other enthusiasts to get new ideas and information.

Howard: You think you have an inalienable right to your opinion but you don't have a right to be mean to other people.  I hate it when small minded people hide behind their keyboard and think they are better than everyone else.  They think they can say whatever they want because no one knows them in real life and they don't have to worry about getting a punch in the head.  Very insecure.

As a person who did receive some harsh messages after posting my cabinet, I can attest personally that they were both disappointing and hurtful.  

I felt alienated from a hobby that I love.  However I haven't given up the hobby and this forum because of the experience.  At the same time that people were trashing my cabinet, I got many private e-mails of support and encouragement.  Many people were outraged over the lack of class of certain members of this forum.  It made me realize that this board isn't too bad after all and there are alot of good people on the board.  

HeadRusch:
Just ignore the rantings of the "Howards" of this world.  Life is too short.

[The Man]

Can't we all just get along?  

[kgriffin]

Hey, you only have 9 posts. You cant group yourself with us yet. Just say can't you masters just get along. We will let you know when you are cool enough to become one of us.


(for any of you that don't know what sarcasm is...that was a joke)

[Tiger-Heli]

Well anyhow I'll look to the advice and guidance of the more moderately tempered folks here...I think alot of people here would have considered buying a pre-made if they had existed three years ago, but they didn't, so you had to make your own.  

I can understand if SlikStik was a ripoff junk product pretending to be the answer, but from what I see they make a quality product.  So.......again.....the problem is....what?

ps: If a title of a post "pisses you off", you need to seek some help.  All I asked originally was wether or not I really needed to get the trackball on the stupid thing.

FWIW, this forum is one of the more restrained ones out there and everyone has previously stuck to the issues and not let personalities and temperments get in the way.

HeadRusch, this post isn't a slam at you as I have said before, if a slikstik does what you want it to, then buy one and have fun with it.

Howard, I really wasn't slamming you either, I respect your opinions on hardware issues.  I think you are taking this "what is an acceptable modification, noob, lamer, wannabe" thing WAAAAY too seriously, and if you were going to flame other peoples ideas, I think you can expect some heat thrown back your way.

Hopefully, I fall into the moderately tempered category on this board.  I have no problem with anyone buying a CP instead of building it if the commercial solution does what they need it to.

I think SlikStik makes a quality product, but I think they are over-priced, even compared to the competition.  

This will probably make both sides of the argument upset and that is definitely not my intent,  , but I think this info might be helpful.

Here is something I wrote for the FAQ section of my upcoming (sometime) arcade controller page (note I picked the LEAST EXPENSIVE Slikstik for the comparision):

Speaking of commercial versions, can't I build my own stuff cheaper than I can buy a commercial controller?

This is a frequent topic of debate on BYOAC.

[Magnet_Eye]

Howard is 22 and calling people noobs? Damn, well I am 32 and was playing arcade games before he was even born, so who is the REAL NOOB here?

(I played my first game in 1977, Night Driver. Then I was really into Space Invaders in 1978. And it just got better from there.)

I personally have to agree with the majority of Kgriffin's posts.

This is about retrogaming. Playing the games. Not a contest of who has built the best cabinet as some people seem to think it is.

Also, I think this site is more about Interfacing arcade style controls to a PC to experience the old games like in the arcade, rather than actually having to build everything.

Kgriffin and everyone: do whatever you have to do to play the games you want to play, and most importantly...Have fun!

 

[HeadRusch]

Night Driver was High Tech!

Actually the first videogames I remember playing were all on Cape Cod.  Seaview Playland (Still there, but every time I go up thtere its closed, hope its still actually open!!) and the local Tasty Towers pizza restaurants had loads of video games...but Seaview had alot of OLDER mechanical games too, very cool.
I remember this one that was very similar to SEAWOLF, only the freakin machine must have been the size of a queen sized bed, it was all mechanical.

Up there literally Seawolf, Pong, and a bunch of generic 'grand prix" type racing games were all over the place, and they were stupid fun.  Black and White but I was hooked big time.

I remember SeaWolf was one of my favorites, my dad had to hold me up to see through the scope

Hmmm...mabye I should try to buy one.   Hmmmmm....maybe not.  500 pounds of solid cabinet that plays a game you could recreate on a $5 Wal Mart digital watch.

[BombProofPlane]

i have to say this is getting way below the standard of the byoac board almost to the level of stupidity as the arcade@home boards where they they think that 4500 is a good price for a mame machine from customarcades.com

they hate how i put up prices and they reply on how "i expect to pay at least 1500+ for labor and "those arn't high quality arcade parts" the guy uses ultimate joysticks and i quote competition joysticks

ok this is just an example on how exploded this could become

[Tiger-Heli]

i have to say this is getting way below the standard of the byoac board almost to the level of stupidity as the arcade@home boards where they they think that 4500 is a good price for a mame machine from customarcades.com

they hate how i put up prices and they reply on how "i expect to pay at least 1500+ for labor and "those arn't high quality arcade parts" the guy uses ultimate joysticks and i quote competition joysticks

ok this is just an example on how exploded this could become

I assume you are referring to my post above where I compared the cost of a home-built to four of the most popular pre-mades.

I was merely trying to show how the prices compared, and I thought it only fair to point out differences, because you aren't buying exactly the same thing that I propose making and if I didn't show the differences, you would assume the least expensive stick was the best deal.

[dhansen]

You boys need to stop bickering and start MAME'ing!!!

[HeadRusch]

...whats that?

[Dink]

I will assume that you already have all the required tools, that you know how to use the required tools, and even more, that you know what tools are needed (you don't spend money on a tool just to find out that this wasn't really the tool for the job and now you must buy something else).

[Tiger-Heli]

Not all of us fit into your assumptions.

Recalc the total assuming I don't have some of the tools, don't prorate materials, add in an amount for going back to the store and add a signficant dollar amount for time to construct the controls.  You'll see why my choice was easy.

For fun do your calcs on the SlikStik Classic vs. doing it yourself vs. "the others".

You completely missed the sarcasm in my assumptions.  Of course most people don't have some of the tools, and the material can't be bought pro-rated.  And your time IS worth something.

My point was really that just the parts involved are between $20.00 more to $30.00 less than buying a pre-made.

In most cases, you are going to spend more building your own than buying, but for a lot of people, the fun is in the journey, and it's not that much more.

The only tools I bought specifically for this project were a multimeter ($10), circular saw ($20), Dremel Tool and bits ($40), and workstand ($30).  (I already had a power drill ($30), bit assortment ($30), and jig saw ($30)).  Figure another $25 for non-prorated materials and the cost jumps by $125 to $245.  (For me).

The slikstik classic was not compared b/c it is really in a different ballpark, as it includes a trackball and spinner and separate 4-way, etc.  I chose the Fighter for the comparison, b/c it is most similar to the competitor's products.