Is this really a Vector Monitor? If so...

[XtraSmiley]

Is this really a Vector Monitor?  If so, why does it look so crappy?  I can see pixels all over the place.  I was hoping to do a Vector MAME with this, but my computer monitor makes a better looking Vector display.  Can someone look at these and tell me if what the heck is going on?  As you can see from the in game pics, all the lines look like dotted lines and I can see the pixels all over the place.

If it is a Vector Monitor, do they all look like this?   I really thought they looked much cleaner than this.  could this be a regular monitor someone through into this cab with a Gravitar PCB?  Can you even do that?  Could I buy a Tempest and hook it up to a regular monitor?  If it is a Vector Monitor, maybe it's close to the end of it's life or something, or maybe it's settings are off.  Anyhelp would be great!  I also need to know some answers by tomorrow as that is when I'm set to buy this thing, and I won't do it if it's not the real deal. Thanks everyone!

[Ken Layton]

Yes indeed that's a Wells-Gardner X-Y (vector) monitor. The convergence is way out of adjustment. Maybe someone has played with the convergence magnet (rings with levers on them) on the neck or the yoke has slipped out of position from rough cabinet handling.

[XtraSmiley]

Thanks Key, you are the MAN!  Is that something that is easy to fix?  Also, at the bottom, where it looks like it is two images, that is not accurate, I must have moved the camera.  It actually lines up perfect, BUT all the lines look dotted.  Will adjusting the convergence fix that problem or is that just how it is?  If so, I don't really see all the hoopla over Vector Monitors b/c they look the exact same to me.  Let me know your thoughts please.

[Ken Layton]

Oh....I see now. I thought there was an actual double image an that's why I said convergence of the monitor yoke and neck rings. If everything actually lines up then the monitor is ok and the game board may have a problem with a digital-to-analog converter or vector generator chip. That would require sending the game board to a repair facility like www.eldoradogames.com for repair.

[XtraSmiley]

Shoot, I just don't know, maybe I was just expecting too much from the monitor.  I just remember games like Star Wars and Tempest and Asteroids looking so much cleaner.  Is there a screen shot of a Vector game anywhere where I can look at the lines to see?  This game has had less than 3,000 plays on it, I can't believe something is wrong with it and I hate to get it if I have to pay to repair it.  Are there any adjustments I can make on the monitor itself?  I didn't see the standard control panel, heck I didn't even see a model number except on that box to the left.  Can you tell me which monitor it is?  I have super high rez pics I can post if you need.  Thanks again.

[Ken Layton]

That's exactly the same monitor used in Tempest. It's a Wells K6100. You could try softening the focus control on the high voltage cage to slightly 'de-focus' the picture which may hide the dots in the lines.

[XtraSmiley]

Actually, when I zoom on the box on the lef in the first pic the number says

K6401 is that part of the monitor or something else?

[Ken Layton]

6401, 6100 are virtually the same monitor. The 6401 is a tad newer though.

[ChadTower]

Something is definitely wrong with the monitor or the game board.  I have a color vector in my basement that is as sharp as sharp gets.  It's like moving lasers on the screen.  BRIGHT lasers.

I've never actually seen a vector game do that.  Are you sure, Ken, that that's still a real 6401?  Could someone have replaced the tube somehow or reaped that one part from a 6401?  That sure looks like pixels and a vector monitor doesn't even HAVE pixels AFAIK.

[MonitorGuru]

Other than the yoke and deflection angle, a vector tube is identical to a raster tube.

19VLUP22 is a 100 degree tube, while most raster monitors used 19VLJP22's, a 90 degree tube, however I know people have posted some raster chassis have used 100 degree tubes, and in fact I have a 100 degree tube out of a circa 1981 Magnavox TV set (raster).

People have successfully transplanted raster TV tubes in for vector tubes, and the label on that tube appears to be the original RCA label placed on their tubes in the 80's, so I seriously doubt it is a swapped tube.

It appears to be convergence or video output related to me, but I do not know much about vector monitors.

[XtraSmiley]

Well I got it.  It's one of the best Gravitars I've ever seen, it's only had 2 previous owners and I doubt it's been in an Arcade ever.  It only shows 2,400 games and they guys who had it before me didn't know how to set it on free play, so I think those might really be it!  It's super clean AND the instruction sheet on the back door is still white, this thing is nice, everything but the monitor!  I adjusted the sharpness in the back, so now it's sharp, but it still looks like it uses dotted lines.  Can someone with a Tempest or better yet Star Wars tell me if your lines are dotted like my pics?  Please ignore the double image, that is definatly the camera as it's all a single image.  Thanks!

[ChadTower]

I have a Space Duel, not sure of which monitor as I just got it a week or so ago, but I can tell you mine most definitely does not have any dotting of that sort.  Mine could use a bit of convergence fine tuning but the lines are crisp and continuous.

[XtraSmiley]

I have a Space Duel, not sure of which monitor as I just got it a week or so ago, but I can tell you mine most definitely does not have any dotting of that sort.  Mine could use a bit of convergence fine tuning but the lines are crisp and continuous.

Any chance you could post a picture?  So now I'm like, WTF!  I even looked at an ebay auction for a Gravitar, that had screen shots and they look like mine, dotted.  Maybe this monitor is a POS?  Maybe there is a way to adjust the output?  Anyone?

[eli curtz]

I know very little about this topic, but could it have anything to do with those images being generated in color? Wouldn't it need to target specific phosphors to do that, just like a normal color monitor - that could make it look pixelated.

[XtraSmiley]

True, but the guy above says his SD is perefect lines, and SD is in color also.  Also, Tempest is color as is Star Wars and I remember them being unbroken lines.... dang!  Anyway, here is a picture of the guys Gravitar on ebay:

http://www.myphotopartner.com/itemphotos.asp?cs=P065&ASID=U00000167030&d=y&cp=008

Heehee, he says his is "museum quality" but mine is in better shape (at least from the photo's).  Anyway, his lines as seen in this pic are dotted also.  Well, thanks to everyone who helped answer questions about this.  I realize this is a BYOC forum, but you guys have always come through with answers to tough questions!  Thanks everyone!

[SirPeale]

I recently found a vector cocktail game that also had the little 'lines' you speak of.  I think it's from lighting the individual phosphors, as one has already said.  I've haven't seen this in a BW vector like Asteroids, buy hey, I'm young.

[ChadTower]

True, but the guy above says his SD is perefect lines, and SD is in color also.  Also, Tempest is color as is Star Wars and I remember them being unbroken lines.... dang!

Space Duel is color.  You'll note that Space Duel does not comprise of a lot of long straight lines... a lot of small jagged lines and weird shapes, but not long lines.  I can take some pics if you'd like.

[XtraSmiley]

Well yes I know it has a lot of different lines, the question is that are the lines solid or dotted.  See my picture above?  Lots of different lines going in different angles, but it looks dotted.  If you don't understand what I'm talking about, taking a picture would just help me a lot.  Thanks!

[ChadTower]

Well yes I know it has a lot of different lines, the question is that are the lines solid or dotted.  See my picture above?  Lots of different lines going in different angles, but it looks dotted.  If you don't understand what I'm talking about, taking a picture would just help me a lot.  Thanks!

Yes, I understand what you're talking about.  What I was trying to say is that with a lot of short, jagged lines, you're not going to see nearly as obvious pixellation as you would with longer lines in a game such as Tempest.  Your brain is going to fill the rest in before even processing the light information.  When you have longer lines to correct, it's not going to happen as fast.

Anyway, I took a good close look at mine last night.  It does in fact have that type of dotted appearance, though not to the order that yours does.  You have to go looking for them, which is why I hadn't noticed before.  Now I wonder if mine has the original tube, or if maybe yours has a different tube.  I haven't opened my cab up yet as the back door lock is broken and I haven't had reason to drill it out yet.

[XtraSmiley]

Well, cool.  Yours is probably a 6100 but mine is a 6401 a later model Vecotor monitor which doesn't  have much info out there.