Farenheit/Michael Moore links/Lies

[APFelon]

How anyone can support the ultimate flip-flopper is beyond me.
02.08.04:
"I'm a war president."

07.20.04
"I want to be the peace president"

I don't see where the flip flop is. One could even say those phrases in one breath and it would make perfect sense.

"I am a war president but I want to be the peace president".
"I am a war president and I want to be the peace president".
"I am a Minnesotan but I want to be an Iowan"
"I have a white car but I want to have a black car".

The first phrase shows a statement of fact- "I am a war president"
The second phrase shows a desire- "I want to be the peace president"

Hardly contrary, and a huge leap if you want to conclude, from these two statements, that the man is incapable of leading a military force. Simply because he stated two polar opposites- "War" and "peace" in two seperate phrases does not make the statements converse.

Hope that makes sense.

Anyway, I hate politics on forums like this. It builds bad blood. Bad blood makes for poor cooperation. Poor cooperation leads to a lousy community.

As a request (not a demand; I am not so foolish as to demand anything over an Internet forum) can we avoid topics like this? Here are a few good places to discuss politics and cultural issues ad nauseum:

www.freerepublic.com
www.democraticunderground.com

APf

[J_K_M_A_N]

"I am a Minnesotan but I want to be an Iowan"

OK, being from Minnesota, I have to say "THAT IS WRONG!".

J_K_M_A_N



j/k Iowans  

[DrewKaree]

much of my daily news intake comes from NPR.  It's difficult to link to as it is spoken word (of course I could link to streaming audio and you can listen to the story, but I'm sure you'd rather something written).

Nah, the stream is fine...it's the info that I'm looking for, that's all.  

"I am a Minnesotan but I want to be an Iowan"

OK, being from Minnesota, I have to say "THAT IS WRONG!". j/k Iowans  

well, Iowans have been waiting as long as Minnesotans for a pro football team, so...  (sorry, couldn't resist!)

It seems I underestimated the common sense my fellow Americans have.  I too will not post to any more of these idiotic threads. (no offence Drew, I know why you started this, and your efforts helped renew my faith in the American people)

I used to feel the same thing about my fellow Americans.  I also take no offense.

How about a janitor with a DUI or one that can barely even speak english correctly (go ahead and goole his fantastic quotes, try "bush funny quotes") or a janitor they can't even prove served in the national guard because they "lost" his records.

Ivy league please, you think daddy didn't have any pull in that one, and even then Ivy league is a football league not a golden path to greatness.  Now you are being intellectually dishonest.

I don't spek inglish sew goodly sumtymz neether. I'm sure speaking to the nation or knowing your every word is reported on makes it easy.  Got me on that one.  What it does illustrate is just how good Clinton WAS as a public speaker, and shows what happens when you underestimate a politician.

He had a DUI.  Got me again.  I've seen politicians on either side do things that SHOULD have gotten them thrown into jail if they were regular citizens.  Doesn't make it right on either side, but if there were a prerequisite that you couldn't run for an office if certain things were done by a person, then boot 'em out.  As it is, Bush didn't "run" for policeman.  As shmokes says, you're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm sure that when they "find" Bush's records (they did find 'em...but you were looking for something more...?) they'll be sitting right next to John Edward's service records, which will be on top of Bill Clinton's.  I    could care less if a president or candidate served, didn't serve, whatever.  Why does that matter to many, anyway?  

That his dad had pull in getting him into college, sure.  It's insanity to think otherwise...for him, or hundreds/thousands of other kids who go there too.  Your point was?  Dad got him those grades there, too, or was that something he did?

"even then Ivy league is a football league"
COME ON!  Now you're just talking silly  Are you referring to last year's national champ, Harvard?  woops!  

"not a golden path to greatness.  Now you are being intellectually dishonest" So you're being tried for murder.  You'd rather have the lawyer from JoeSchmo University defending you, and wouldn't think you MIGHT have a better chance with the guy with the Harvard law degree?  C'mon!  Never did I say it was a "golden path to greatness", but I DO say having an MBA from one of those schools shows you DO have a touch more brains than he's given credit for.  If you wish to discredit Bush for what he's achieved, then let us know that you also think that Clinton would have been sweeping another part of the factory that Bush would be working in too  Gaining knowledge counts, no matter what side of the aisle you lean into.

I guess maybe missing records is a common thing but then again I am going out on a limb here and saying you are not the offspring of a former President.  They may keep tighter hold of those, but I do not know.

status profiling?

<sup>Logan says Bush could have turned his DUI into a positive campaign message.

"He could have taken it and run with it, and been very proactive about it and made a stance against it," she said, "because he has been supportive of tougher drunk-driving laws in Texas."

As Texas governor, Bush has backed lowering the legal limit for blood-alcohol concentration to 0.8 percent and making it illegal for underage drivers to have even a trace of alcohol in their systems. Both are now the law in Texas. The national office of MADD issued a statement today saying, "We appreciate Gov. Bush's support of anti-drunk-driving legislation in Texas."

"He could have been more up front [about his DUI], and it could have worked to his advantage," Logan said. "Too late now."</sup>

So he passed tougher laws, they recognized that he could have used it as a campain issue (to his advantage) and didn't...I'm good with how he's dealt with it...everyone remembers how this came out right before everyone went to the polls (was that an attempt to use it to someone else's advantage ) I'm ok with how Bush dealt with his DUI...are you ok with my state's exhibition of utter hypocrisy towards a politician's DUI?  See, it's silly to think there's not an example on either side of the aisle.

As someone who was involved in the armed forces I would like to know if you think the soldiers/US Staff were just having fun, acting on their own or if their orders to do that "abuse" came from Rumsfeld or someone else.

you say Rumsfeld or someone else.  That encompasses a whole lot of people who COULD have acted on their own.  Please narrow it down or be more specific in your charge.  I do not think Mr. Rumsfeld was apprised of that particlar situation before it happened, and have no reason to think otherwise.

None of this is meant to offend anyone and if I have done so I apologize, I said before I am no expert and these are my opinions.

If any of us were experts, wouldn't we be better suited to talking to someone other than a bunch of arcade fanatics

[DrewKaree]

haven't yo picked up on the point of what EVERYONE complains about from the right?  Any kind of media (except web pages and other sources that PRINT) are run by bad bad people?  the people who want our country to fall apart?  it's all a conspiricy if you heard it on the radio (unless it was rush...the fat drug addict guy who's been divorced 2 times[at least that's what I saw printed on a T Shirt..]...not those 3 guys who sound like women, but are good on drums) or saw it on TV.

if you read me, it's not about bad people, it's about how the story is written to make the most impact.  The fat drug addict says what he says to make the most impact.  That's why to you, he's the fat drug addict, while to many, he's known more commonly as Rush Limbaugh.  

This whole attitude of "well if someone took the time to write it down ..it has got to be true" just blows my mind. I clicked on 2 or 3 of Drews links and it's like....there are so many of those ads on the sides of the "article" that I suspect they may be home made by him on tripod or something.

Actually, geocities gives me more features I want, so I go with them.

What "well respected" paper was it that just had the guy who was just making stuff up and putting it in the paper?  I don't think he made it up, because he wrote it down.  right?  that's how it works?

that was the NY Times.  The rest, depends on your perspective.  

For the love of god.  How can people argue that one side is right and the other is wrong when they're all as crooked as they could possibly be!?

well, if you don't stand for something you'll fall for everything.  The challenge is to pick who you think is the "least crooked".

And who cares if gay people want to get married?

many many people who think it's not right.

Some of the weddings I go to put an emphasis on LOVE.  If 2 gay people LOVE each other enough to make it legal, why shouldn't they be allowed to be as miserable as the rest of us?

because then you wouldn't be able to call them "gay".

...but I read a few posts and had to yell at someone about your opinion is your opinion.  It's not right.  It's not wrong.  It's yours and thats all you can say about it.

but it's still o.k. to speak about your opinion and debate with others who don't hold the same opinion, that's all that's going on...it's not like I told someone I'm tearing the control panel off of my Centipede and making a three-tier 247 button 4 player control panel to replace it.

The real problem in this country is no one is responsible for anything and everyone is upset.   Everyone gets "offended".  I can't even figure out what that means.  I've never BEEN offended.  I can't imagine being so arrogant that if someone calls me a name or says something I don't like it would actually bother me.  It's their opinion, and they're entitled to that.

stop forcing your opinions on us, man.  But seriously, good point.

Yeah, Hooray for those people a the Linda Ronstadt (Linda Ronstadt for chrissakes!) show.   Someone said something I didn't like...that means I can throw my drinks and tear the place apart.  Jesus!  are we animals?  why is a singer talking politics the story here?  what about all the idiots who went balistic because they heard some words in a certain order and it upset them?

the few that did those things didn't exhibit the same discretion others did.  I'd be upset that I paid $80 to hear someone sing and they started spewing their political views...perhaps some felt the need to extract their pound of flesh.  That was their choice.  If they got arrested for it, that was the consequence to their actions...what better way to teach cause and effect - responsibility for one's own actions?!?

My point is who really cares about any of this...kinda like 8bit pointed out a few posts ago.  I think about a few things....

well, the same could be said of this hobby...different strokes for different folks.  Sometimes, each person being different, worlds collide.  It seems that many care about this...you yourself exhibit concern - at least about the fact that we shouldn't care so much about this

When clinton was president he got the gig by being cool and playing the sax!  and I was happy and all my friends had good jobs and everything was cool.  Then when bush got elected, I and some of my friends lost our jobs, we don't make as much money now

I'm sure that Clinton had nothing to do with my job or anyone elses and I'm sure Bush didn't have anything to do with getting all those poor people killed.  But for me, my life and attitude seemed better when there was a Democrat in office.  

I saw you speak to this in two differenc areas...combined 'em here...neither president had anything to do with your job, those are decisions that a  company makes.  Why didn't you hold out for a better paying job?  I think two planes flying into buildings in an attack in our land may have something to do with MY life and attitude being different, but your life and attitude (you spoke of personal responsibility before) are what you make of them.

and I see posts on my favorite FREAKING PAGE ON THE INTERNET about how MY BEST FRIEND FROM HIGH SCHOOL JUST GOT KILLED BECAUSE OF OUR WAR.

I see that it upsets you, but it's still something that will be talked about, for precisely the reason you're upset...some folks want to voice their displeasure at this war and all that is going on around it.  I'd like not to be able to say "I've got you beat" in the people lost in the war issue, but that's why I feel the need to speak about this stuff.  I find Moore's movie personally offensive towards the people I've lost, and feel that his lies are detrimental to the safety of our armed forces and thus, can't sit by and not say something about it.

Do I need to watch a movie or read a bunch of internet sites (that someone took the time to type up!) to know this stuff?  nope...I just remember.

It has nothing to do with remembering.  I have more money in my check - I SAW the extra money I got to keep.  That had nothing to do with a movie or some article I read or remembering.  It was an affirmation that someone was doing something for me that I believed in, and that's why people watch/read things that affirm their point of view.

Now, I want you all to just reply and say how right I am, and you're all sorry that you tricked me into reading this post.

you're right, I'm sorry I tricked you into reading this.

I'm a normal person

said the guy with the pretty white jacket with the crossed sleeves that buckles up the back

when everyone tells me what a stupid idiot fatso loser I am, I can take it...I won't get offended

you are a stupid idiot fatso loser (sorry, couldn't resist)

[DrewKaree]

As promised, the transcript of the movie Fahrenheit 911 - first is 59 Deceits of Fahrenheit 911, so you can follow along as you read.

Download the file - right click and rename - change name to Fahrenheit 911.zip

Two formats, .doc and .txt, are included.

[Magnet_Eye]

59 Deceits of F/911?

Compared to the 10,124 deciets from the Bush (BUllSHit) administration!? LMAO!

You guys are too much!  

[Valence]

59 deceits of F/911.
Crap

Accuses Moore of being deceitfull when the author uses the very same thing Moore does to try to prove his point.

My favorite line

"And if you think that the people who are slaughtering American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi soldiers, and Iraqi civilians are terrorists rather than "minutemen," then it is true that Moore supports terrorists."

Yep, that proves it for me.

Not

[8bit]

Hmm that link about ronstadt couldnt be more wrong.  There were 1,360 people at attendance according to the ticket sales and it was an outdoor event.... though according to this site <i>some of the 45-hundred people in attendance stormed out of the theater.</i>

Also it was noted as that the crowd by divided in two... half cheering and aplauding (giving ovations) and the other half booing and it was noted a couple drink and napkins thrown.  Ronstadt was already aware of this would occur since she had brought up moore during a past couple shows on her tour.  Also people didnt storm out of the theaters they said it was about 1/4 of the audience who just got up and left.   I just love how if you switch a couple words arround you can make it sound so dramatic.  Oh media and your ways of deception...

Yep that was deffinetly some head line news was it not...  

[DrewKaree]

59 Deceits of F/911?

Compared to the 10,124 deciets from the Bush (BUllSHit) administration!? LMAO!

You guys are too much!  

Come on...make with the descriptions...more words - flesh out your arguments.  

BTW, did you download and read it/the movie?

[8bit]

59 Deceits of F/911?

Compared to the 10,124 deciets from the Bush (BUllSHit) administration!? LMAO!

You guys are too much!  

Come on...make with the descriptions...more words - flesh out your arguments.  

BTW, did you download and read it/the movie?

Have YOU actually read it all and seen the movie?  And when I mean see the movie, I mean see it from a point of veiw that wont see what it wants to see.  Do you not read things like bowling for truth and kinda wonder why they say certain things they do?  Do you actually even question that other form of supposid "truth" you are shoveled.   Or do you just stand behind it because its overall content is just out to debunk both Moore and his name?

[DrewKaree]

Have YOU actually read it all and seen the movie?

As a matter of fact, I have, that's why I started this thread.  Have you not read that?  It may disqualify you from commenting on me, if you haven't  I've seen people say that a person is poorly qualified to comment on something if they haven't seen or "experienced" it personally.  Now, I'll admit, Dodgeball got my money, but I saw and "experienced" this film.

And when I mean see the movie, I mean see it from a point of veiw that wont see what it wants to see.

So now the "you gotta see the movie" argument is being further refined, more narrowed?  Are you saying if I didn't see it this way, it precludes me from commenting on it?!?  I've gone into plenty of movies for my wife that I DREADED seeing because they were "chick flicks" (honey, in case you're reading this, see, I DO love you) and come out saying "that was a pretty good movie".  

I didn't need to go into that movie with any different point of view than what I already had.  That's a specious point to bring up.

Do you not read things like bowling for truth and kinda wonder why they say certain things they do?

I would like to pose the reverse of your question to you - Do you not wonder why he is writing the things that he does?  Do you not wonder if there's a possibility that there may be another (or usually, three, four, or more sources) source out there that debunks his arguments?  That's rather interesting, as it appears that you are assuming that I don't do this.  

I'll kindly direct you to the repeated, again and again, over and over asking by myself to those who disagree with me to show me the information they have used to form their opinion.  I think you'd have to be blind to read this thread and think I'm unwilling to see both sides, but I've been looking so long, I had to form an opinion. After I've formed an opinion, though, I'm the type of person who will stand by it and fight for it, as I don't just "fall into" them.  

It also doesn't mean that I just casually dismiss your argument as "some left-wing nutjob's lunacy".  You may sway me to rethink my position, although so far, you've just told me (and I'm paraphrasing) that even though I've seen it, I haven't seen it with "the right frame of mind" and I haven't questioned Moore's "facts".  I dunno what number that falls under in Dale Carnegie's book, but so far, I'm not looking to change my position based on some "left-wing nutjob's lunacy

I respect Moore because he doesn't waver constantly about what he believes.  It doesn't mean I'll ever agree with him, but I do respect him for his stance.  I wonder, do you know his stance - howhe feels about his "fellow Americans"?  I believe I'm more than capable of figuring out why he puts out the things he does, since he's been reported time and again commenting on his work and the America he comes from, and I am more than confident that I can figure out what he is attempting to do with his films and books.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Moore views us as idiots.  In case you don't feel like clicking this link

_{it was during an interview with the British paper The Mirror that Moore unfurled what is perhaps the central insight of his oeuvre, that Americans are kind of crappy.}

[8bit]

wow your very good at filling words in my mouth.  Maybe you should your hand at making misleading documentrys as well.  

You seem to venture off topic of my question and never directly answer it but ramble on and on and in some instances repeated things you just said.  Very cute.  And yes to answer your questions I have read the information.  I frequent many other forums that get the same type threads with the same links.

What I am saying is if you saw the movie going in with your own political bias (we all have one so this isnt putting you out on the spot) misguide your preceptions as to what you were looking for in the film.  Im give you an example with this.  Many who saw bowling for columbine saw it only as just an anti-gun film instead of rather what Moore was originally intending for.. however to be fair Moore really went askew of those original intentions for the film to further bring out emphasis towards cultures affect on our motivs.  A lot of the time you can make something out of nothing if you just look deep enough (and as a film studies major, I can tell you first hand ive had enough classes where people have made attempts to do so... so extreme it just boggles the mind how they tried to connect it).  But with instance of Moore he does explicitly bring upon letting up on what hes trying to come accross with.  To break this one down even further...  heres a good example .. your aware of IMDB.com correct?  If not its the internet movie database.  Before F9/11 was even released out into theaters it had only been see by the select few at the Cannes's Film Festival and those who part of production and post production of the film.  However even before it hit theaters members of the site had already voted in ranking F9/11.  Out of close to 2000 people who voted and claimed to see a movie that wasnt even out in theaters or seen by public ...2/3 of the vote gave it a 10 out of 10 (the best a movie can get) and the other 1/3 gave it a 1 out of 10 which is the lowest a movie can be ranked.  This is what I mean about the intentions of going in seeing what you want to see.  Just as there are people who want to see only certain factions of the film there are others who are taking certain factions and making more to them than what they are and trying to read even in deeper.  

What I mean about the supposid truth is that do you actually look into what they say inside sites like the 59 deceits, have you researched up what bowling for truth says.  As someone who has read through links like this I see much of their arguements head off into having no support of themselves.  I saw commentator/political analyst Sean Hannity use things from the bowling for truth site when it use to be nothing more than a .pdf document.  At the time he didnt have much support over his claims which later turned out to be false... but if those claims were in time evident as false he would have made a fool of himself.  What happens is though one party will go out and try and uncover anothers reasons/logic ....  often no one goes to to either support or check that other partys claims.  

Im not trying to play any partisan game or trying to support Moore.  If you didnt read my earlier post, I thought the movie was frankly quite boring and just lost itsslef in all the hype is was given.  The fact of the matter is that too many are further projecting Moore by trying to subject to trying to debunk him.  Im frankly tired of listening to an abundant of zealotry on message boards by people subjecting onto others that they dont know the truth unless they are told so from another for of media that has potential to be equally as biased.  And I think im deffinetly not alone.

[DrewKaree]

You seem to venture off topic of my question and never directly answer it but ramble on and on and in some instances repeated things you just said.  Very cute.

I answered each of your questions.  If you feel I didn't answer one of your questions, please state the specific question you feel I didn't answer.  Please show, as well, the instances where I put words in your mouth.

Im give you an example with this.  Many who saw bowling for columbine saw it only as just an anti-gun film instead of rather what Moore was originally intending for.. however to be fair Moore really went askew of those original intentions for the film to further bring out emphasis towards cultures affect on our motivs

I just cannot comprehend how you can say what Moore was intending for, then say that he went askew!  Isn't he the same person who did the movie?!  How the heck can you say he intended one thing, then went askew?!  He intended to go askew, then!

Im frankly tired of listening to an abundant of zealotry on message boards by people subjecting onto others that they dont know the truth unless they are told so from another for of media that has potential to be equally as biased.  And I think im deffinetly not alone.

what I'm tired of is seeing the promotion he is receiving by saying Disney was "censoring" him, when all they were doing was making a business decision.  He's achieved his goal, his movie is out, and now it's being used to pillory an administration by using clear deception and outright lies.

[8bit]

Before bowling for columbine was out Moore did an interview with Richard Linklater (famous for his indy films like slacker, he also wrote at the same time a movie called Spike, Mike, Slackers and Dykes).  Moore discussed what he thought about indy films and how they were heading and then Linklater asked him if hes got anything new planned.  he mentioned a movie that was going to be about Columbine High massacre (which would become Bowling For Columbine).  Moore's original intent according to him was that with the height of everyone accusing each other of why the kids at columbine did what they did he was going to show that these kids werent being influenced by video games, music, tv,... etc.  Nothing about the NRA, nothing about the meetings that occured and all that... that appeared into the concept somewhere at the start of the movie.  Gus Van Sant stole a similar approach with his film Elephant which was recreating a similar massacre to show that the kids had all these aspects around them (like violent video games, violent movies, music.. etc) but he failed with coming accross with resolve for the film.  At this point in time most people didnt have a clue who Michael Moore even was.   However Moore, being Moore just part way into pre-production switched a great course of the film.  And this is something that does happen in films... ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- theres another version of American History X that didnt make it because Norton's ego got in the way.  But with Moore there was only one thing bigger than himself... and that was his ego.   Its possible that he tried to doupe us.... but I think with an interview with a friend like Linklater... he would have been honest with him.

[DrewKaree]

_{Before bowling for columbine was out Moore did an interview with Richard Linklater (famous for his indy films like slacker, he also wrote at the same time a movie called Spike, Mike, Slackers and Dykes).  Moore discussed what he thought about indy films and how they were heading and then Linklater asked him if hes got anything new planned.  he mentioned a movie that was going to be about Columbine High massacre (which would become Bowling For Columbine).  Moore's original intent according to him was that with the height of everyone accusing each other of why the kids at columbine did what they did he was going to show that these kids werent being influenced by video games, music, tv,... etc.  Nothing about the NRA, nothing about the meetings that occured and all that... that appeared into the concept somewhere at the start of the movie.  Gus Van Sant stole a similar approach with his film Elephant which was recreating a similar massacre to show that the kids had all these aspects around them (like violent video games, violent movies, music.. etc) but he failed with coming accross with resolve for the film.  At this point in time most people didnt have a clue who Michael Moore even was.   However Moore, being Moore just part way into pre-production switched a great course of the film.  And this is something that does happen in films... <auto-censored> theres another version of American History X that didnt make it because Norton's ego got in the way.  But with Moore there was only one thing bigger than himself... and that was his ego.   Its possible that he tried to doupe us.... but I think with an interview with a friend like Linklater... he would have been honest with him.}

I once heard it said about me that

You seem to venture off topic of my question and never directly answer it but ramble on and on and in some instances repeated things you just said.  Very cute

 "Imitation" is the most sincere form of flattery, and I appreciate your expression of approval of my work.  

[Floyd10]

lol

[fredster]

Please read my girl's article:

http://www.anncoulter.org/

[Floyd10]

ooooooooooo. I hate her

[DrewKaree]

ooooooooooo. I hate her

James, you know she secretly turns you on and you really want her to tie you up and spank you until you call HER "daddy"!  

 

C'mon, fess up!

[Floyd10]

Lol. actually she isnt that good looking...

[rchadd]

You can have bloody Tony "Smiler" Blair if you want him.

[Floyd10]

hehehe

[GGKoul]

hehehe

Now thats funny  

[hulkster]

um...i like mame and street figther.  and i think i heard that bush loves arcade games and kerry hates them because he's a hippie....but thats just what i heard.  

[fredster]

Anybody see Moore on OReilly?

Moore kept saying the President lied.  OReilly quoted all the sources that said he didn't.

Kinda like a preview of the election.

I feel like if you don't like Bush, you should vote Nader. I mean, that's a protest vote..

[DrewKaree]

The latest on Kerry and why we should all be concerned with voting and making a choice one way or the other...click this link for the most important reason we all should be rising up to take arms one way or the other.  And since it's written and on the internet, it's GOT to be true    

[APFelon]

I hate to keep this stupid thread alive, but I found this site that is a take on the "George Bush or Monkey" site (In the interest of fairness, here is the link: http://www.bushorchimp.com/ )

This is the same business on Michael Moore. http://mooreorpig.com/moore_or_pig.html

APf

[Floyd10]

Don't forget to goto my thread! Musicians against bush (in off topic)

[DrewKaree]

Since I'm betting it may have been "missed"   by the local/national media you pay attention to, I'm offering to you this:  "The Bloomington Pantagraph published an article in which it said if Moore "wants to 'edit' The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job and not simply show made-over and 'falsely represented' pages from the newspaper in his movie -- or he should at least ask for permission first."  
Excerpted from the article

The letter to Moore says, "In an instance that The Pantagraph prints materials in which there is a mistake, it is corrected. It is our hope that you would adhere to the same high ethical standard and correct the inaccurate information which has been depicted in your film."

In its news story, the paper said, "The letter calls into question the ethics of how Moore made his movie, a movie whose primary purpose is to call into question the ethics of the Bush White House."

yeah, right...don't hold your breath on that first one  


And - GET THIS!    Kuwait Bans 'Fahrenheit 9/11'  EVERYONE heard about this one, right?!?

And lastly, Saudi Royal Family Claims "Fahrenheit 9/11" Grossly Unfair In this piece, the Saudi Ambassador to London has the temerity to state

"He missed an important opportunity to find out key facts," he said. "In my opinion he should have made every effort to go to a country he has taken to task so heavily in his film."

So time and again Moore decieves/lies (aren't they getting to be interchangeable when referring to this bloated buffoon?) and yet, I haven't seen the news story that condemns his movie as a propoganda piece designed to circumvent the campaign finance laws (tell me this ISN'T designed to be a mouthpiece for the Kerry/Edwards campaign).

As the Judge says...I wouldn't believe a thing that came out of that man's mouth if his tongue came notarized!

[Floyd10]

  Notorized...

Well the Saudi one is pretty muuch saying, "Bush affiliated with us? How insulting!"

That both helps and hurts your opinion DK

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Moore can lose weight, this thread will always be stupid.

[Floyd10]

Moore can lose weight, this thread will always be stupid.

Ouchies

[Dartful Dodger]

Moore can lose weight

That is a lie.

He can't lose weight, and he will die fat, and only lose weight when the worms start eating away at his flesh.

[DrewKaree]

Moore can lose weight, this thread will always be stupid.

That is a lie.

He can't lose weight, and he will die fat, and only lose weight when the worms start eating away at his flesh.

Stuff like DD's post show this thread to be erudite beyond belief.

The only way Moore can lose weight is if Kerry's "end to corporate welfare" causes Hostess to go bankrupt and Twinkies will never be sold again...wait, you can make donuts at home...nope, I change my opinion.  Moore will always be fat.  

See MrC, I can change my opinion.  I'll probably change it back right away, but it is possible.    

[shmokes]

Sorry...I've been silent for a bit.  I got busy with work things and just haven't had the time for this (my god, Drew, you must be a government employee or unemployed).

Okay....Here's Bush admitting that Iraq hasn't got (and didn't have) any WMD's:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/12/bush.speech.ap/index.html
"We removed a declared enemy of America, who had the capability of producing weapons of mass destruction, and could have passed that capability to terrorists bent on acquiring them."   I heard him say this.  It was an admission that Iraq did not posess WMD's.

Here is an excellent movie showing Bush joking about there being no WMD's.  It's probably as effective as Michael Moore's film even though it's only about 60 seconds long.
 

On the Abu Ghraib prison conditions, here is a link to the newstory.  It's NPR so you can listen to it, or there's a link to a U.S. News and World News report on it, but it costs a few bucks.
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3351015

Edit: here's a print article about it:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/usinfo/press/prison.htm

Ann Coulter is a dog.  The only reason people even think she's good looking is in the political pundit world she has no competition.  She's ugly.  And she's worse than Moore when it comes to journalistic integrity.  And she's extraordinarily mean.  A cruel, lying hack.  I swear to god there's something wrong with her.  

Edit: Damn-it  If someone tells me how to set up links right in here I'll fix those.  I guess I can't just use HTML.

Edit 2: I fixed the links, but I don't know how to do them right, so you can make a single word a link and so on.  Cet la vie

[DrewKaree]

...(my god, Drew, you must be a government employee or unemployed).

possibly having foot surgery, so I'm here, there, and everywhere to doctor after doctor after test facility, after therapy after....sheesh...and I work when I can.

Okay....Here's Bush admitting that Iraq hasn't got (and didn't have) any WMD's:
CNN
"We removed a declared enemy of America, who had the capability of producing weapons of mass destruction, and could have passed that capability to terrorists bent on acquiring them."   I heard him say this.  It was an admission that Iraq did not posess WMD's.

just did this to fix your link...I'll look into this later tonight.  I may concede this to you

Here is an excellent movie showing Bush joking about there being no WMD's.  It's probably as effective as Michael Moore's film even though it's only about 60 seconds long.  

again, just making the link clickable here

On the Abu Ghraib prison conditions, here is a link to the newstory.  It's NPR so you can listen to it, or there's a link to a U.S. News and World News report on it, but it costs a few bucks.  NPR


Edit: here's a print article about it

now it can be viewed

Ann Coulter is a dog.  The only reason people even think she's good looking is in the political pundit world she has no competition.  She's ugly.

I actually agree with this point, but it behooves me to use her to have fun with those who disagree with her because

And she's worse than Moore when it comes to journalistic integrity.  And she's extraordinarily mean.  A cruel, lying hack.  I swear to god there's something wrong with her.

you could be right there.  Or else you try to get others to think you hate her because you secretly love her

If someone tells me how to set up links right in here I'll fix those.  I guess I can't just use HTML.

Actually, those seemed to be perfectly good links if used on a web page, but they use a slightly different format of it for bulletin boards.  Check your IM for how I did it.

Thanks man!

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Moore will always be fat.  

*disclaimer*: I think Moore is a blowhard. He made a great film (F9/11) but undermined a good majority of it's valid criticisms by interjecting snide commentary. Just like, Hannity, Rush, Coulter, Severin, O'Reilly, et al. He could have risen above, but he couldn't.
/*disclaimer*

If I were Moore, I'd actually make a documentary about the obescity epidemic in this country and in parallel I'd lose a good portion of the weight in order to make some progressive commentary, and to be a little bit of a smart-ass. If Moore were thin 95% of the wingnuts criticism of him would be instantly invalidated.

[GGKoul]

Before I post this, I just want too say that I am a Canadian and I have not seen F9/11.

But if you don't believe Bush & the Saudi's royal family are "close" friend.  You may want to see this

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0804041gifts1.html

-GGKoul

[Dartful Dodger]

If I were Moore, I'd actually make a documentary about the obescity epidemic in this country and in parallel I'd lose a good portion of the weight in order to make some progressive commentary, and to be a little bit of a smart-ass. If Moore were thin 95% of the wingnuts criticism of him would be instantly invalidated.

If ifs and buts were fruits and nuts....

You are not Moore, Moore is lazy and fat, that's all he is, that's all he will be.

You said that Moore can lose weight, you are wrong, he is lazy and fat, that's all he is, that's all he will be.

Before I post this, I just want too say that I am a Canadian and I have not seen F9/11.

I just want to say, you can't vote againts Bush (and that's all Moore wants, not to vote for someone better, just to vote against Bush), so your opinion on this means nothing to me.

[GGKoul]

I just want to say, you can't vote againts Bush (and that's all Moore wants, not to vote for someone better, just to vote against Bush), so your opinion on this means nothing to me.

Alright...