Author Topic: Cutting through control panel overlay? (Read 12790 times)

sofakng · « **on:** July 02, 2004, 04:10:54 pm »

I've sent in my order to MAMEMarquees.com for my control panel overlay to be printed. Now I'm wondering that once I receive it, how exactly do I cut out of the holes and everything else?

My printed image will NOT have grid lines or anything, so I'm guessing that I will have to print out my same template but WITH grid lines and then lay it on top of the other image.

Then do I just drill right through my overlay with my forstner bit? Will that make smooth holes in the overlay? Will it tear up the overlay graphic?

I've been told the overlay is printed on nice thick paper but I've never drilled through anything like this and I'm wondering if this is the proper method of cutting out these holes.

I will also be adding plexiglass, but I'm guessing I still cut the holes into my MDF first.

JAMMA Guy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2004, 04:38:21 pm »

You cut the holes in the control panel overlay last if that's what your asking.

Option 1
---------------------------------------
1st ... MDF (Forsner or Spade bit)
2nd ... Plexiglass (pilot hole then flush trim it with router)
3rd ... Control Panel Overlay (exacto knife)

Option 2
---------------------------------------
1st ... MDF & Plexiglass (using circle cutter)
2nd ... Control Panel Overlay (exacto knife)

Option 2 is the easiest method

When drilling the plexiglass ... drill a little bit slowly ... then run the drill in reverse ... it melts itself through and you don't risk cracking it

etumor · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2004, 04:45:41 pm »

I think what he may be asking (and if he's not, then I am) is it possible to apply the overlay to the wood first, then drill through the overlay and into the wood. This would have the advantage of making sure that your holes lined up perfectly with their placement on the overlay, but obviously it risks damaging the overlay. Is there a safe way to do this?

-Jeff "etumor"

RacerX · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2004, 05:15:28 pm »

I drilled my holes first. Then I applied the overlay. Then I cut the holes out of the overlay with a razor knife. That way the holes matched up perfectly, and there was minimal if any risk of damaging the overlay.

sofakng · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2004, 05:32:40 pm »

Ok, so it seems like I should cut the holes in the MDF seperately from the holes in the control panel.

How exactly do you cut a perfect circle with an exacto knife or a razor knife? I have both but I can't cut anywhere even **remotely** close to a perfect circle.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong? ...or maybe I think I have an exacto knife but I really don't?

maraxle · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2004, 05:35:42 pm »

Quote from: sofakng on July 02, 2004, 05:32:40 pm

How exactly do you cut a perfect circle with an exacto knife or a razor knife? I have both but I can't cut anywhere even **remotely** close to a perfect circle.

Does it really need to be perfect? The button will be covering it.

Minwah · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2004, 05:38:38 pm »

Quote from: maraxle on July 02, 2004, 05:35:42 pm

Does it really need to be perfect? The button will be covering it.

True, but how about for joysticks with the dust-washer mounted under the artwork?

sofakng · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2004, 05:39:12 pm »

Ok, you have a point...

What about drilling a small hole through the control panel overlay at the center of each of the buttons?

That shouldn't damage the overlay and it will give me a mark on where the holes guy in the MDF...

Did you guys cut out circle shapes in the overlay, or squares (or maybe plus signs?) and then just force the buttons through?

darktemp · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2004, 08:37:19 pm »

I'd cut the button holes like a pie. You could probably also take the button nut and use that as a guide to cut a circle out?

OSCAR · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2004, 11:55:25 pm »

For practice, drill a hole in a piece of scrap wood and the cover it in masking tape. Use an extaco razor to cut the masking tape out of the hole. Like darktemp mentioned, cut it out "pie-style". Insert the razor about half through the tape so you are cutting with the middle of the blade, then follow the outline of the hole using the wood as a template. Make sure you use a new blade, not an old dull one. That will make sure you cut the overlay rather than tear it.

Hoopstar · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2004, 01:28:58 am »

I have not done it myself (yet) but I will be following the lead of TheJohn (full credits and ownership of the piccy) as seen below:

Sylentwulf · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2004, 08:05:51 am »

Side-post I've been meaning to make. I just sent my order in to mamemarquees as well, and I asked if he could use the template on a separate layer to print out on plain paper so the template I use, and the overlay I have are exactly the same. He's printing it out for $10 more.

Yes, it's $10 for about $.05 of ink, but I'll have a full size exact scale visio-style template to use for cutting out my control panel, and I'll KNOW that it WILL be a perfect match for my artwork. Worth it IMO.

sofakng · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2004, 03:26:38 am »

Ok, I've done the same thing... Scott (from mamemarquees.com) sent me my control panel overlay as well as my template (for lining up the holes, etc).

So now I need to cut holes into three things: MDF, Plexiglass, Overlay itself.

For cutting the MDF I'll use my forstner bit; for the plexiglass I'll use forstner bit in reverse; for overlay I'll drill a pilot hole and then cut off pie shapes.

However, I only have one template. Do I tape this down onto the MDF and then just drill my holes right through the paper? Remember that my template printout will end up being garbage is only used for alignment.

However that still leaves me cutting holes into my finished overlay. If I drilled/cut holes out of my template printout, how do I know where to cut the holes on my overlay?

I guess my question is this:

In what order do I cut everything? Remember that I have my finished overlay as well as a junk overlay with gridlines (my template overlay used for alignment only)

Sorry for so many questions $:-\$

Nannuu · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2004, 05:42:35 am »

This is assuming that you only have forstener bits and not a circle cutter or flush router bit, otherwise JAMMA Guy had some nice options.

If you don't want to pay 10 dollars for a template (which seems a bit high btw) I do my artwork leaving either a .1 dot where the button will go or a 1" dot with two centerlines in the middle. That way you can use your overlay as the template. I like the CPO as a template as that IS an exact copy of the CPO, there is NO chance that a template was scaled wrong at printing.

Place the template (or overlay) on the MDF. Place a drill bit punch (comes with most drill bit sets) in the center of the template hole. Smack it with a hammer. It will dent through the template and place a nice mark into the MDF below. Remove the template.

Now when you start to drill, place the forstener bit tip into the dent and drill away.

Next place a piece of junk material down. Lay the plexiglass (or lexan) on it. Place your drilled MDF on top. Line both up nicely and clamp it all together. Now use the drilled MDF holes as a guide for you plexiglass. Drill plexiglass.

Once you have the plexi all drilled you can put your CPO on. If you are using concealed T-nuts make sure you have them in there. And if you are placing the dust guard under the artwork make sure it is on there as well before you lay down the CPO. Then cut the holes in the CPO as described earlier. Now place the plexi over the CPO.

As most paper templates probably are accurate you can also just tape it down and drill through it. But it will be kind of ruined after that. I am a big fan of the drill bit punch. You can still use a template over and over this way. If you don't have one you can just as well use a finish nail or a screw or whatever is pointy. Just make sure you have it positioned correctly before punching because if you put your drill bit down it is going to slip into the dent you've made. The only cpo cuts that are important are the joystick holes if you have the dust washer under the artwork.

Sylentwulf · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2004, 08:02:02 am »

The biggest problem with the drill bit punch method, is that it assumes your control panel overlay has every button, joystick, and trackball printed on it, which IMO is just weird

My overlay, personally, has an image for under the controllers, but NO markings at all where any of the buttons and trackball should go.

sofakng · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2004, 10:47:59 am »

Nannuu: Ok, I understand most of what you're saying. I do have the $10 layout template AND my $35 control panel overlay. The template is the same as the overlay except it has grid lines where every button, joystick, and trackball will go.

So, I can tape my template to the MDF and then drill punch through each hole OR drill right through the template into the MDF.

How do I cut out the holes in my overlay? My finished overlay (not template) does not have any markers what-so-ever where the buttons should go.

Sylentwulf: My overlay doesn't have *anything* on it except for my artwork (there are no gridlines or anything). However my template has EVERY button, joystick, etc on it.

Sylentwulf · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2004, 06:09:23 pm »

I did the exact same thing, my artowkr has nothing on it (just some graphics where the joystick goes, but no markings of any kind for cutting)

My suggestion, would be to sandwich clamp the two pieces and cut them at the same time.
OR, cut the MDF, then clamp them, and trace the holes from the MDF onto the plexi from underneath.

sofakng · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2004, 01:05:06 am »

Sorry that I'm so confused...

You said: "sandwich clamp the two pieces and cut them at the same time."

Are you saying to clamp my control panel overlay and overlay template? (not mdf or plexiglass at this point)

You said the second option was to cut the mdf first (by drilling THROUGH my overlay template?) and then trace holes from MDF to plexi. Well, if I drill through my overlay template to cut my MDF, how do I cut the holes in the overlay itself? How will I know where to cut?

RayB · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2004, 01:13:33 am »

I don't know if this bit of advice is going to work perfectly or not, but you can buy little blades that fit in a professional quality compass. (By professional I mean, not the cheap kind they sell for grade school kids, but the kind you'll find in an art store--These kinds of compass use small lengths of lead in one side, and you can buy little blades of the same size to fit in there. That way you can use the compass to cut a circle).

~RayB

Nannuu · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2004, 02:33:37 am »

Sorry, I'm used to doing my own artwork so I always have the buttons layed out on there.

Plexiglass:
Your plexiglass should be the same size and shape as your control panel? Just line all of the sides up and clamp them together. Then use your MDF panel as a guide to drill the plexi.

Artwork:
Since you are so confused I am assuming that your artwork must be oversized larger than your control panel. (if it is the proper size, it is easy, just line the sides up) Since I am assuming that it isn't, lay the artwork between the MDF and Plexi and hold the entire panel up to the light. You should be able to see where the button holes are laying. Move it around until you get it where you want it, then clamp the plexi-artwork-MDF together. Now cut the holes in the artwork.
**** Or as Sylentwulf says just clamp it all together and the use the MDF holes to trace a line around each hole with a pen.

It will all make sense once you start cutting/drilling. Do the MDF holes first and everything will make sense from there.

I'd make a quick picture gallery of how to do this but the wife took the camera on vacation...deoh.

sofakng · « **Reply #20 on:** July 11, 2004, 02:43:26 pm »

I'm very sorry that I seem to be overcomplicating this (by a lot), but I just don't want to screw up..

So, do I have the steps right?

1) Clamp TEMPLATE to MDF
2) Cut through template and into mdf (using any method)
3) Place PLEXIGLASS on top of MDF and use drill in reverse THROUGH the MDF holes and onto the plexiglass to melt away holes into the plexiglass.

Now, at this step, how do I get the holes into my artwork? My template is already destroyed (because I drilled through it to make the holes in the MDF)

Again, I'm sorry that I'm over complicating this, but I'm not sure how to cut the holes into my artwork once I use up my template.

Sylentwulf · « **Reply #21 on:** July 11, 2004, 06:55:40 pm »

This last method you posted seems fine. To get the holes in the template, just attach the template to the MDF (sticker it) and then push your fingers on the CPO and find where the soft spots are, then cut them. You're going to be able to feel where there's no wood, thats by far the easiest part.

What *I* had meant by sandwiching, was clamp your MDF to your Plexi. Then put the template on top of that and cut both the MDF and plexi at the same time (risking breaking the plexi, and not the best way to do it, but maybe the most accurate)

sofakng · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11, 2004, 08:13:26 pm »

Quote from: Sylentwulf on July 11, 2004, 06:55:40 pm

This last method you posted seems fine. To get the holes in the template, just attach the template to the MDF (sticker it) and then push your fingers on the CPO and find where the soft spots are, then cut them. You're going to be able to feel where there's no wood, thats by far the easiest part.

You say "template" and you said to "sticker it to the MDF". When I say "template" what I'm referring to is my $10 piece of paper (no sticky side) with grid layouts for my buttons, joysticks, etc. When I say "overlay" I mean by $40 piece of artwork (with sticky side on the bottom).

My artwork ($40) does not have grid lines, etc. My template ($10) has the grid lines, etc.

So, in order to drill holes into my MDF I need to use my template ($10) and not my artwork.

That's why I'm a little confused because we keep using different words to describe different things

Sylentwulf · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2004, 08:45:37 pm »

Right, use the template, not the artwork, I just meant attach the template somehow, the beer said sticker it. Don't listen to the beer, the beer is evil and will deceive you.

To make things even easier, you could put the template between the plexi and the MDF, and make a REAL sandwich that way. Only problem being you'd have to remove the protective "blue" film from the plexi to see the template (assuming your's has the blue film on it)

Another note, when I say sandwich it, I'm talking clamps all over with wood protecting the plexi and mdf from clamp damage.

johnnysmitch · « **Reply #24 on:** July 12, 2004, 02:24:21 pm »

As far as cutting the overlay paper goes, a company called OLFA makes an excellent adjustable circle cutter; I do a lot of freelance graphic design work and use mine quite a bit. It's WAY better than the little blades you can put on the end of a standard compass. I found mine at Pearl Art Supply, but you should be able to find one at most arts and craft stores. They look like so:

sofakng · « **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2004, 10:35:54 pm »

Well I think I'm able to cut all the button holes now and the joysticks...

But what about the 3" trackball hole? That's one hole that doesn't have anything covering it (the joysticks have dust washers, the buttons have lips, etc).

I can't spend money on art supplies for just one hole

Any other suggestions? I could trace the mounting plate with an exact-o knife perhaps...?

johnnysmitch · « **Reply #26 on:** July 14, 2004, 11:04:39 am »

I've never had too good of results cutting that small of a circle with an exacto using a guide (that's why i got the circle cutter

) - if you REALLY want to make it perfect, you could probably pretty easily make a makeshift circle cutter for just the 3 inch hole using a chunk of wood, a long nail, and a screw [please excuse the fast/crappy sketch...]:

sofakng · « **Reply #27 on:** July 14, 2004, 04:31:57 pm »

That's not a bad idea... Would require some work and you would need to make certain the knife doesn't slip...

Do you think it would come out good if I use my trackball mounting plate and traced the circle free-hand with an exact-o knife?

The unfortunate thing is that I only get ONE chance at this. If I screw up a cut the artwork will show it

johnnysmitch · « **Reply #28 on:** July 15, 2004, 10:09:08 am »

i'd run the exacto along the mounting plate as a guide before I'd attempt to cut the circle freehand. Whenever you freehand a circle with an exacto (at least in my experience), you end up with facets from starting and stopping, or not turning the blade correctly. The only way I've ever cut a decent freehand circle (and I have attempted it many times), is when it was a circle on a normal size piece of paper, that I could turn around the blade (instead of running the blade around it). I don't think that's an option with something big like a CP overlay tho...

sofakng · « **Reply #29 on:** July 15, 2004, 10:28:15 am »

Maybe we're talking about two different things... (I have a bad habit of using the wrong words to describe things)

When I said "free-hand" what I meant was using my hand and the exact-o knife and not building a circle cutter like you described above.

What I figured I'd do is take my trackball mounting plate and flip it upside down (so the legs on the mounting plate are facing up). Then I'd place the mounting plate and lay it flat on my overlay. Finally, I'd use my exacto knife and try to follow the circle the best I possibly could while cutting the overlay.

If I hold the exacto-o knife in my hand and I press it against the mounting plate circle, you don't think it would come out that good?

johnnysmitch · « **Reply #30 on:** July 15, 2004, 01:29:58 pm »

I see what you're saying, it's just that cutting with an exacto along a straight edge and within [the inside of] a circle are very different. It's not like running a ballpoint pen or anything along the circle - since the blade is flat and not round, you must spin the knife as you make the cut, which has always proven quite difficult for me to get good results. Granted, a 3" circle is fairly large, so you mihgt be able to get decent results if you took your time with it. There's basically two things you'll want to look out for when doing it this way tho - 1st being that you are applying enough pressure to cut all the way through in one pass [usually frowned upon when doing precise exacto cutting, but it will be extremely difficult to make multiple passes with any accuracy within a circle] and 2nd being that, while applying this pressure, you take your time to be sure you don't accidently cut into your mounting plate or yourself. I've done both of these things before when cutting with an exacto, and can't say that I recommend either...

sofakng · « **Reply #31 on:** July 15, 2004, 03:36:24 pm »

Ok, gotcha.

Would you suggest I go ahead and do this free-hand (as we just talked about), or do it another method?

If you really suggest I don't do it freehand, please tell me otherwise or else I'll go ahead and just hope for the best

FractalWalk · « **Reply #32 on:** July 15, 2004, 04:41:24 pm »

What I figured I'd do is take my trackball mounting plate and flip it upside down (so the legs on the mounting plate are facing up). Then I'd place the mounting plate and lay it flat on my overlay. Finally, I'd use my exacto knife and try to follow the circle the best I possibly could while cutting the overlay.

If possible, I would suggest mounting your overlay first that way you can add all of your buttons and joys and then your TB plate will line up exactly with the hole you want to cut.

I just finished cutting my CPO a few days ago using this method. I applied a vinyl overlay from classicarcadegraphix on top of plexi, which was secured to 1/2" ply.

After it was positioned properly and firmly affixed, I used an exacto to cut all of the holes (button, joy, TB, spinner axle). Using the drilled plexi underneath as the guide, I had no problem cutting exactly the outline of my holes. The TB hole was the easiest as it has the least amount of arc.

I think what made it easy for me was that my blade was riding along a plexi edge and not wood (The knife tends to "catch" or "dig" into wood easier then plexi). However, I would think using the metal mounting plate as a guide would work just as well.

sofakng · « **Reply #33 on:** July 16, 2004, 07:45:52 am »

Did you use the pie-method for cutting out the other buttons? (look up in the thread if you don't know what I'm talking about)

I'm also wondering if you do use the pie method, what do you do with the pie slices? I'm guessing you fold them down into the hold and then stick them to the inside of the button hole?

FractalWalk · « **Reply #34 on:** July 16, 2004, 10:34:47 am »

I did not use the pie method rather I cut out the entire circle. Form the top of the CPO, I placed my exacto in the center of the hole, punched through and cut to the mounting plate edge. I repeated the process to make a single small pie wedge and folded it out of the way. This gave me room to turn the blade sideways and place it flat against the edge of the mounting plate hole.

I then just slowly traced around the mounting plate cutting as I went. I let the plate guide my blade. When I was done I cut out the small pie wedge in the same manner and then retraced the whole thing again just to clean it up a bit.

When cutting keep the knife blade perpendicular (vertical) to the plate and sink the knife in deep enough so that about half of the blade is below the CPO and half above. Go slow and don't force anything.

sofakng · « **Reply #35 on:** July 16, 2004, 10:50:50 am »

Ok, did you do this same method for the button holes? (eg. pie-method or entire-circle method)

...or did you just use it for the trackball hole?

Other than that, I think I have all the information I need to cut out from the artwork.

Thank you!

FractalWalk · « **Reply #36 on:** July 16, 2004, 11:22:39 am »

I did the same method for the buttons and joys, however I had plexi underneath my artwork and so I had a built-in guide. If you have wood directly underneath your artwork it might not be as easy as the exacto blade likes to "catch" and dig into wood much easier than plexi.

But then again, since the edges will be hidden by button skirts it doesn't have to be perfect. You might want to try my way out on the buttons. If you can trace out a button with wood as a guide, then the trackball with its metal edge and large circle will be a breeze.

sofakng · « **Reply #37 on:** July 16, 2004, 01:56:23 pm »

Gotcha. Thanks for everybody's help!

ThePaul · « **Reply #38 on:** August 02, 2004, 02:15:47 pm »

sofaking have you cut your artwork yet? I need to cut mine and I'm just not sure about cuttin the TB hole with a razor. Everything else is easy uses the pie method.. but the TB .. there's no hidding it if it isn't perfect.

sofakng · « **Reply #39 on:** August 02, 2004, 02:35:12 pm »

Actually I'll most likely be cutting mine tonight. My first piece of artwork was a little banged up so I got another one. The good thing is that I get to use my first piece as scrap to practice cutting the holes, etc.

I've tried the pie method but it I can't seem to make very many cuts before it gets hard to make small slices (wedges?).

So, the best method I've found is cutting circles by following the holes inside the mdf (or lexan/plexiglass for that matter).

Just insert your exacto-knife in the center of the hole and then gently, slowly, cut (with the middle of the blade) to the edge of the hole. Next, turn the blade sideways (be careful) and have the edges of the hole guide the blade along the entire size of the hole.

Using this method my holes have been coming out great -- almost exactly like the hole in the mdf. I'm going to do the same for the trackball... There's really no other way to do it, but I think you'll be very pleasantly suprised on how good it comes out.

ThePaul · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2004, 02:37:33 pm »

Well good luck tonight, I'll be right there with you

sofakng · « **Reply #41 on:** August 02, 2004, 02:39:13 pm »

Best of luck to both of us!

FractalWalk · « **Reply #42 on:** August 02, 2004, 03:07:40 pm »

If you are using something like a mounting plate or plexiglass as a guide, it's really hard to screw it up.

I was very worried about cutting my trackball hole, but I'm very happy with the results.

ThePaul · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2004, 01:40:56 am »

Well how did it turn out sofa? Mine came out pretty good, almost without a hitch. Except my artwork budged a little bit while trimming and there is a tiny bit of white showing at the top.. but oh well..

can see some photos here

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=21284&start=0

sofakng · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2004, 05:59:10 am »

Your control panel looks good! VERY good!! I'm glad to see that it came out very good for you.

Last night I only had time to build the control panel box... I'm beginning to think that whatever time you think something will take, double it. I'll probably be cutting the overlay tonight (well, I hope....).

Did you build the cabinet yet? My control panel box seems to sit on the cabinet waaaay too high... (check here for my thread about it: http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=22700)

Keep us updated on your project

It's coming out great!

ThePaul · « **Reply #45 on:** August 03, 2004, 10:29:18 am »

I'll be building the cab next. When you're married you have to go in baby steps. Now that this part is done she can see that I'm serious and it is worth the extra money and mess in the garage to build the rest

Can't wait to see what kind of problems I have building the cab!

sofakng · « **Reply #46 on:** August 04, 2004, 10:04:54 am »

Well, last night I finally decided to be brave and start cutting my artwork...

It came out GREAT!

The mdf, artwork, and plexiglass all line up pretty good. There are a few buttons that don't fit perfectly, but if I angled them slightly and work with it, they end up fitting just fine.

Tonight I'll be working a little more on the control panel box (eg. filling holes with putty, sanding, priming, painting, etc).

All thats left is mounting the smoked glass I have for in front of the monitor. I already see a problem (there is a big gap between the control panel box and the monitor self).... but I'll post that in another thread.

In case anybody is wondering, I didn't use the pie-cutting method. When I tried, I wasn't able to make enough pie slices (the artwork keep bunching-up [for lack of a better term]). Instead, I used my exacto knife to make perfect circles by following the holes in the MDF. I used the same method for the trackball hole. It's not 100% perfect but it's pretty darn good in my opinion.

Thanks to everybody for all the help!

Nannuu · « **Reply #47 on:** August 04, 2004, 10:14:07 am »

Around the trackball hole. Take a marker with the same color ink as the surrounding print and color the edge of the paper. Otherwise you have a funky white line you can see. Just do it fast and light so that ink doesn't soak in and bleed outward. All of the other holes are covered so they should be fine.

sofakng · « **Reply #48 on:** August 04, 2004, 10:37:52 am »

Good idea!

It might be a little bit more complicated for me though. When I was cutting the trackball hole in the plexiglass, I think some of the plexiglass melted (??) onto the trackball mounting plate. I'm not sure if it was plexiglass or not, but it was quite sharp and definitely wasn't there before I cut the plexiglass hole.

To fix this, I used an air compressor and some sort of tool (it had various bits used to file away metal, etc) to remove the plexiglass from the mounting plate. The edge around the inside hole of mounting plate is a little rough now but I cleaned it up the best I could... If I use a black marker it should be just fine.

Thanks for the tip!


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