Was Wicco prices: Now Tball hack talk

[rampy]

Am I confused or does the Wicco website not list any prices?

I've requested a catalog, but can't wait =P

Anybody order one?  In some of the previous threads look liked someone had bad luck with a 3" but some one else did okay with the smaller one?

http://www.wicothesource.com/new2/pages/page89.htm

Thanks!

rampy

[u_rebelscum]

Am I confused or does the Wicco website not list any prices?

Anybody order one?  In some of the previous threads look liked someone had bad luck with a 3" but some one else did okay with the smaller one?

Thanks!

rampy

Wico has a couple prices pages.  Go to http://www.wicothesource.com/new2/pricing/81-184.htm  The list is sorted by page number and then the part number.  You have to look up prices yourself (yuck).  The 3" is about a quarter way down the list @ $49.99.

I just ordered a 3" and a 2 1/4" last week, received them yesterday.  Shipped by UPS ground, this is very quick for me (west coast US).  

Very little testing done ATM, but the 3" works great, except the mounting holes are a little too small of the happs 3" mounting plate.  I tested it on a happs USB converter, no problems in windows or mame.

The 2 1/4", however, needs some work.  The rolls are either not worn in enough, or are used too much and need to be replaced.  Looks like it will be easy to hack a mouse into, though.

[rampy]

doh!

thanks for the info... That's pretty counter intuitive, but I imagine it makes it easier for them to update the prices on a catalog... but still.

While I have your attention... is the 3" model mouse hackable in  your estimation?   Or a separate specialized interface required, like the optipac or the USB one you used?

Thanks again,

rampy

[rampy]

Another silly/stupid question... What's the difference between active high trackball and active low (open collector) in terms of the electronics/interfacing with mouse guts =P

It's been ages since I've done electronics type hacking and can't remember the difference between a collector, emitor, or other parts of components=)

is there a recommended version of the 2 1/4" trackball for MAME cabinet folks?

thanks

rampy

[OSCAR]

Active hi means the current is "sourced" with respect to the signal, and active low means the current "sinks".  The safest one to buy would be the active hi model, because if you were to buy a Hagstrom Electronic interface (KE72-T, ME4) in the future, they do not support active low optic circuits.  You could always add pull-up resistors to the circuit, but since you have the choice up front, you would be further ahead to buy one that works without modifying it.   The Opti-PAC interface is jumper selectable between Active Hi/Lo, so no problem there.  An active low circuit is a little "cleaner", but less common (according to Hagstrom).

As far as hacking tball optics to a mouse, the difference really wouldn't matter, but I would still say go with the active hi model because all of the hacks I've seen documented are based off of a Happ optic board.  If you are planning on pulling the original optic boards altogether and using mouse optics, then it doesn't matter at all which model you purchase.

Note ('cause I know SirPoonga will chime in  )
We tried to hack his 3" Wico with mouse optics and we were never able to get rid of backspin.  He also had MadSmurf build him another mousehack, and I guess that one didn't work either without backspin when used in MAME.

[u_rebelscum]

While I have your attention... is the 3" model mouse hackable in  your estimation?   Or a separate specialized interface required, like the optipac or the USB one you used?

Thanks again,

rampy

The 3" is hackable, but you have to open the case to get at the optical circuits, and note what OSCAR said about some problems.  Others have hacked the wico 3", though.  The happs 3" looks easier to hack because the circuit boards are accessable from the outside.  Then again, you could use the optipac or the happs USB interface instead of mouse hacking if you don't mind spending $$.

is there a recommended version of the 2 1/4" trackball for MAME cabinet folks?

My first trackball was a Kensington Expert Mouse Pro.  I still use it for normal windows stuff.  It is good, but the cost was $100 US, so you can buy the arcade ones for cheeper.  The expert has nice ball bearing rollers, pretty good at continuing a spinning, and a very high ball stance.  Some cool things about the expert is that it is USB, and the ball can be switched with billard balls (like all 2 1/4"s).  The ball is free to be popped out, though, and the case is shaped so it would be some work to get is mounted under a control panel, and it needs the whole circuit board to work because of using reflection for the opticals instead of the standard wheels.  So it would be great for trackball window/mac use and part-time mame trackballing, but not the best for a control panel, IMO.

After playing with the 3" trackball, I'm going to stick with the 3" for maming.  I love the feel and spin of the 3" much better than the kensington and wico/suzo 2 1/4 inchers.  I really should test the wico 2 1/4 some after tuning it, but I can't see using it instead of the 3" after seeing how much better it is..  Except if/when I make a cocktail cab.

just my 2 cents.

[rampy]

Thanks Oscar and u_rebelscum ... that info was helpful.  I still haven't made up my mind though (trying to get arcade feeling controls but on a frugal budget)  might make the first run control panel sans trackball, and get the 3" when more funds free up...

thanks again,

Rampy

[BobA]

Just thought I would add some additional info re the Wicco 3 inch trackball.   Put together a simple hack that does not require connecting internally to the trackball.  All connections can be made at the connector.  I did however put 2 mouse buttons on the trackball so I did open it for that.

Hack can be found here.

http://members.shaw.ca/bakaye/tballhack.htm

Just for info if you do go with the 3 inch Wicco.

Bob

[rampy]

Thanks BobA,

That was very helpful (maybe it should be added to the BYOAC faq, eh?)

That's the type of hack I was looking to do, and your leg work will make it tons easier.

With the mouse guts you are using, are you having any trouble with "rollback" or whatever when you spin the trackball fast?

rampy

[BobA]

No roll back or funny action with the hack so far.  Have not even gone in to adjust any of the MAME settings.   Mouse seems to have worked out just fine.  I think that older cheaper mice are preferrable for the hack.

Bob

[OSCAR]

BobA is 100% correct.  All the tball hacks I've done seem to work just fine without tweaking the MAME default settings.  Well, except Centipede, it took me quite a while to get that one tuned in just right.

Try to stay with cheap mice to hack, like Kensington, Belkin, Micro Innovations, etc, like BobA said.  Those have always been easier to do than the more expensive mice, in my experience.  BobA's hack (or LuSiD's, for that matter) hasn't worked with any Logitech mouse I've tried.  In general, try to stay away from Logitech mice when doing mouse-to-trackball optic hacks.

The author of the MameWah frontend recently put up a mouse-to-trackball hack page at http://mamewah.mameworld.net/MouseHack.html in case you are interested.

[JustMichael]

The original Centipede did have "rollback" when you spun the trackball really fast.  It would seem to sit still or move slightly in the opposite direction until the ball slowed down some and then it would zip in the right direction.