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Author Topic: what wood to choose?  (Read 5376 times)

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rchadd

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what wood to choose?
« on: April 22, 2004, 06:48:15 am »
I currently unsure best material to build my new cocktail cab in. any suggestions?

i see plywood is pretty popular, but has been suggested to me that MDF would be better/easier to work with and get better finish.

however i live in 2nd floor flat (3rd if in US!) with no lift (elavator?) so bit concerned that MDF will be too heavy to carry up the stairs after construction.

hmm..maybe part construction and reassembly in flat would be better option (detachable control panels?) or press gang more friends to help lifting.

what is best wood/width to go for? (just need a second opinion as undecided)

cheers

- richard

Lilwolf

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2004, 08:13:36 am »
If money isn't a big deal...

consider going with a oak playwood or a nice pine plywood.  One with a nice finish.  You will pay more... but it will be lighter.

A bigger problem for moving (at least for mine) is removing the monitor.  And for you... the top glass (and maybe the top board).

You might look at building a self contained box to put the monitor is... And that you can remove the box with a screw or two.... so its still safe.  

Removing the top piece of wood, glass, computer and monitor... In the end... it shouldn't be ANY problem to move with two people... (and one should only be a problem because of the size / shape).  


rchadd

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wood width vs t-molding
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2004, 09:17:06 am »
in europe all wood width measurement are in millemeters  but t-molding is in fractions of an inch.

is it possible to get a good fit without having to trim the edges of the t-molding?

is it possible to get t-molding to match the standard european width woods exactly?

patrickl

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2004, 09:57:13 am »
Almost all t-molding is made to fit 3/4" panels. To fit that you need 19mm panels. You won't find that on stock anywhere. At some places you can order custom sized wood. Though, for black t-molding it's probably not even that much of a problem (at least you have the option of trimming the edges).

I have different sets of t-molding and sadly enough the width is not always the same. I have some chrome 3/4" t-molding that's 1,98mm wide when it's applied. On a 18mm panel that means 1 mm overhang on each side. That's just too much and trimming the edges is not gonna work either.
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bionicbadger

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2004, 10:33:51 am »
I currently unsure best material to build my new cocktail cab in. any suggestions?

i see plywood is pretty popular, but has been suggested to me that MDF would be better/easier to work with and get better finish.

See If you can find the lightweight MDF.  It costs slightly more, but weighs 1/3 less than regular MDF.

rchadd

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2004, 11:03:58 am »
lighter MDF...

Woodn't (sic) that be called LDF (Low Density Fiberboard)? :)

MDF = Medium Density Fibreboard

think i'll have to visit a proper supplier - my local Homebase doesn't have any choice.

i like the finish of laminate but should i go for pre-laminated whateverwood or try laminating it myself? is it easy to get a good finish?

hyiu

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2004, 11:11:23 am »
if you're going to laminate it... then don't use MDF...

you can actually use some cheaper plywood....

because if you laminate, you don't really care if the wood surface is nice or not.... the laminate will cover it anyway...

go get some cheap plywood... which means the surface is rougher... not as good as oak and stuff.... and before applying the laminate... just lightly sand it with like 60-100 grid... so that they're reasonably flat... but no need to be very smooth....

Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

rchadd

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2004, 11:52:57 am »
this is porbably v.dumb question:

laminate before or after construction of the cab?

i figure before construction...

doesnt cutting damage/chip the edge of the laminate? any tips on how to get best edge finish? tools to use - jigsaw or router (which I don't have yet)?

hyiu

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2004, 03:31:29 pm »
my laminate experience is LIMITED....

but I think what you need to do is....

first cut all the parts....

make sure they fit together...

then laminate.... (and the laminate should be a little bigger...)

then use a router with a trimmer bit and trim the laminate so that it fits perfectly....

then put it together....

Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2004, 03:59:52 pm »
I would laminate after assembly.  Then just lay the cab on it's side and do each side.  That way you could secure the interior components with fastners through the side panels and these would be covered by the laminate.

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2004, 04:09:42 pm »
Laminate the interior pieces (front, top and back) before assembly.  You can then laminate the two sides after assembly by laying it  on its side.

bionicbadger

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2004, 04:18:08 pm »
lighter MDF...

Woodn't (sic) that be called LDF (Low Density Fiberboard)? :)

MDF = Medium Density Fibreboard

think i'll have to visit a proper supplier - my local Homebase doesn't have any choice.


Take look here : http://www.windsorplywood.com/graphics/pdf_files/sheetgood1.pdf
See they have a super lite MDF.

If you are going to laminate, then just buy some melamine, its pre-laminated(but its heavy) and comes in different colors if your supplier carries it.

DrewKaree

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2004, 01:41:43 am »
Seeing your questions and noticing your admission of lack of experience with this stuff, buy yourself an EXTRA piece of whatever you use (MDF or Ply, IMO plywood will be better for you, lighter weight, just as strong as MDF, easier to machine, less dust).

DO NOT laminate your pieces before assembly.  If you do this, and you are not SPOT-ON-PERFECT with everything, what are you gonna do?  You will not be able to remove the laminate without screwing up your hard work.

When purchasing your laminate, also purchase the cheapest piece of laminate they offer (ask them for it, it'll prolly be some hideous color/pattern they hardly sell or some solid color they get cheap) and use this with the extra piece of material to practice on.  Laminating is not hard to do if you've got the right tools and READ THE DIRECTIONS, but practice will be your best friend.  I K-N-O-W you will be wanting to not waste time and get to building your cab, but practice will pay off in your final results.  

You can do it some other way, of course.  I would consider it foolishness for someone without experience to do this without practicing it first.  I will probably elicit all sorts of "I did it without doing that, and it worked fine" posts, but if those people were honest, they'll also tell of the area they did that "you can't really see it, I'm the only one who knows it's there".  NO ONE does it perfectly the first time.  There's a reason people pay good money to have countertops installed.  I'm just happy I get a chunk of that money.  

 8)
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SNAAAKE

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2004, 02:36:02 am »
if you're going to laminate it... then don't use MDF...

you can actually use some cheaper plywood....

because if you laminate, you don't really care if the wood surface is nice or not.... the laminate will cover it anyway...

go get some cheap plywood... which means the surface is rougher... not as good as oak and stuff.... and before applying the laminate... just lightly sand it with like 60-100 grid... so that they're reasonably flat... but no need to be very smooth....



Wrong.

Do use MDF if you laminate.It cost about the same as ply anyway.The cheap long grain ply is like $20 a sheet and so is MDF.And laminate sticks MUCH better on MDF.I did laminte plywood before.Wasnt happy at all.The surface was rough even with sanding.The laminte started coming off after like a month.
Why bother sanding when you can get smooth MDF for the same price.
(thats my local home depot)


« Last Edit: April 23, 2004, 02:43:30 am by SNAAAKE »

hyiu

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2004, 02:55:41 pm »
Since I most likely have less experience with laminate than snaaake....

plz take my words with a grain of salt... and at your own risk..... :P :P :P



Wrong.

Do use MDF if you laminate.It cost about the same as ply anyway.The cheap long grain ply is like $20 a sheet and so is MDF.And laminate sticks MUCH better on MDF.I did laminte plywood before.Wasnt happy at all.The surface was rough even with sanding.The laminte started coming off after like a month.
Why bother sanding when you can get smooth MDF for the same price.
(thats my local home depot)



Another Brilliant mind ruined by education....  :p

brained

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2004, 03:03:32 pm »
Hey, I've seen many decal decorations using VINYL is it posible to use VINYL instead of laminate??

patrickl

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2004, 03:07:57 pm »
I think that's how they do most of the pacman cabs (or other cabs with full sideart).
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DougHillman

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2004, 03:44:43 pm »
Wrong.

Do use MDF if you laminate.It cost about the same as ply anyway.The cheap long grain ply is like $20 a sheet and so is MDF.And laminate sticks MUCH better on MDF.I did laminte plywood before.Wasnt happy at all.The surface was rough even with sanding.The laminte started coming off after like a month.
Why bother sanding when you can get smooth MDF for the same price.
(thats my local home depot)





Don't forget to factor in the cost of the forklift you're gonna need if you ever wanna move a laminated MDF cabinet. ;)

If you can't be a good example at least try to be a horrible reminder.

TotOOntHeMooN

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2004, 05:07:57 pm »
A 16mm width for wood is standard in Europe and 5/8" T-Molding can be find without problem.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2004, 05:10:05 pm by TotOOntHeMooN »

SNAAAKE

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2004, 06:02:21 pm »
Wrong.

Do use MDF if you laminate.It cost about the same as ply anyway.The cheap long grain ply is like $20 a sheet and so is MDF.And laminate sticks MUCH better on MDF.I did laminte plywood before.Wasnt happy at all.The surface was rough even with sanding.The laminte started coming off after like a month.
Why bother sanding when you can get smooth MDF for the same price.
(thats my local home depot)





Don't forget to factor in the cost of the forklift you're gonna need if you ever wanna move a laminated MDF cabinet. ;)



Yeah well not for me,I lift my cabinet all the time.
HULK SMASH !! :D
« Last Edit: April 23, 2004, 06:07:00 pm by SNAAAKE »

patrickl

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2004, 07:35:22 pm »
A 16mm width for wood is standard in Europe and 5/8" T-Molding can be find without problem.
Only black t-molding though.
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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2004, 11:23:29 pm »
How about we all compromise and use MDO (Medium Density Overlay).  It is pine particle board with a veneer of MDF on the outside.  It is as light as plywood and gives you the outside layers of MDF.  

In the Chicago area, Menards is the only place I have found it.  
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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2004, 04:58:44 pm »
Only black t-molding though.
... for t-molding.com, but I have seen other colors on t-mold.com (blue, red, yellow, white), happcontrols.com (chrome), and ebay.com (gold)

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2004, 09:18:24 pm »
Anyone use Oak?  How do you connect the wood pieces together? Would you still use screws?  If so doesn't wood filler look crappy when stained?

patrickl

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2004, 10:39:45 pm »
I use dowels. Not on oak, but still.
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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2004, 11:30:58 am »
I thought I'd share my Canadian experience with all of you.  To purchase a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" oak plywood would cost me $89.00 CDN a piece.  On the other hand a 3/4" sheet of MDF is $28.00 CDN a piece.

So for 3 sheets
Oak = $267.00
MDF = $84.00

That's nutz!  Looks like I'll be going with MDF even though I really wanted oak.  So that leads to my question.  Is it possible to make MDF look like wood with a stain?

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2004, 11:55:45 am »
You can buy oak looking laminate ;D
Like this here.


rchadd

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2004, 11:55:51 am »
think you can get plywood that is pre-laminated with a oak/beech finish. its the same stuff that those commercial cocktail kits use.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2004, 11:57:54 am by rchadd »

patrickl

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2004, 12:54:48 pm »
There are different qualities of laminated wood. You can get plywood sheets covered with a thin layer of actual wood or plywood covered in a "wood print on plastic". I never really liked the looks of the latter (allthough the price is a lot better)
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rchadd

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Coloured MDF
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2004, 04:48:44 pm »
Valchromat (Coloured MDF) Available In Anthracite, Blue, Brown, Green, Red & Yellow.

Has anybody seen/used  this before?

visit here for more details and photos...

http://www.avonplywood.co.uk/noframes/valchromat%20info.htm

looks like the only thing you would have to do is varnish the surface.

I expect it is pretty expensive

this supplier also has venered boards - Wood Veneered MDF ( Premier Grade for interior use only ). i notice that they have it in 16mm, 19mm thicknesses (perfect for 5/8 and 3/4 t-molding!)

http://www.avonplywood.co.uk/noframes/veneered%20boards.htm

« Last Edit: April 29, 2004, 05:01:01 pm by rchadd »

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Re:what wood to choose?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2004, 07:21:56 pm »
Anyone use Oak?  How do you connect the wood pieces together? Would you still use screws?  If so doesn't wood filler look crappy when stained?
To connect oak, use the standard glue-and-screw method, however, countersink the hole so the screw head will be set beneath the surface about 1/8-1/4".  Hammer in an oak plug (cut them with plug cutters out of a scrap piece of oak, or cut an oak dowel and taper the sides), saw it close to the surface, and sand flush.
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