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Author Topic: Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...  (Read 6309 times)

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mushmouth

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Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« on: March 14, 2004, 03:47:56 pm »
A while back on here, I saw a thread on someone getting ahold of some repro tron handles and making a tron stick using a Happs Super base. I tried the search on here, searching "tron joystick handles super", all words I know were in the thread, but got no results.

What I am trying to find out is, if I already have a Super base, what's it realistically going to cost me to build one of these?

Otherwise, if anyone knows where I can find a Tron cocktail triggerstick, I'd take one of those as willingly, (actually I'd *prefer* one of those...)

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks (again) guys...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2004, 03:48:29 pm by mushmouth »
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MinerAl

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2004, 04:23:07 pm »
Would somebody PLEASE make us some balltop-trigger sticks?!  

Please?

P.S. here's a thread where I made a tron-ish stick out of a super.  There's a recent thread about making one out of the iStick...

The Thread
« Last Edit: March 14, 2004, 04:40:08 pm by MinerAl »

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2004, 04:43:18 pm »
OSCAR's trigger stick hack
1UP's Trigger Stick rotation-restrictor
1UP's Dual Tron Joystick Handles*
MinerAl's Macsense FunStick Pro F-108 hack
usb "tron sticks" check it out thread

*AFAIK, the guy that made the Tron handle repros isn't doing it anymore, so you're back at having to hack up a PC joystick (like the Raider Pro or the Macsense FunStick Pro F-108), or buying a "real" Tron joystick (either new or on eBay).
« Last Edit: March 14, 2004, 04:46:16 pm by Sasquatch! »

Gamecab

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2004, 09:28:50 pm »
Anyone know the guys email address (Who made the molds).  I would REALLY!!! be interested in purchasing the molds.
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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2004, 10:31:14 pm »
Anyone know the guys email address (Who made the molds).  I would REALLY!!! be interested in purchasing the molds.
N2NEW@aol.com

I wish I had bought a bunch of his stuff before he quit.  He had some really nice balltops.  I did get a Tron stick and it is extremely nice :)
Next I'll be on fries, and that's when the big money starts rolling in.

Gamecab

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2004, 11:56:32 pm »
Ok, then he was the Guy linked from 1UP's page.  I just sent him an email before posting my first message basically asking if he would like to sell the molds of his tron sticks.  If I get a reply this time around it will be nice,  If not I'll have to try and cast a mold from an existing Disc of Tron stick i have here.  I really think that having a mold already made will speed things up a touch.  (Not that I have anything planed for the molds ;D)
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MinerAl

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2004, 12:53:36 am »
The old posts are in here somewhere, but I seem to recall that his molds degraded after a few castings and he had to make new ones, or he quit after the one set he made degraded, or something to that effect.

Brand new Happs handles could be used for making new casts, but I'm guessing there might be legal stuff...

I'd like to see someone make new casts that are modified at the casting level for 3/8" or 1cm hollow shafts suitable for immediate use in a super, or one of the switchable 4/8 ways that are popular here.  That way there's be no weird plastic reducers a'la 1UP's hack.  Just a nice solid connection to a super shaft.

That kind of better mousetrap would have arcade hobbyists beating a path to somebody's door.

Oh, and TRON COCKTAIL TRIGGER STICKS too.  :)

mushmouth

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2004, 01:18:26 am »
Oh Great God Almighty, he who is the most powerful, wise, and all-knowing PLEASE make it so...
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Gamecab

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2004, 01:47:39 am »
The old posts are in here somewhere, but I seem to recall that his molds degraded after a few castings and he had to make new ones, or he quit after the one set he made degraded, or something to that effect.

Brand new Happs handles could be used for making new casts, but I'm guessing there might be legal stuff...

I'd like to see someone make new casts that are modified at the casting level for 3/8" or 1cm hollow shafts suitable for immediate use in a super, or one of the switchable 4/8 ways that are popular here.  That way there's be no weird plastic reducers a'la 1UP's hack.  Just a nice solid connection to a super shaft.

That kind of better mousetrap would have arcade hobbyists beating a path to somebody's door.

Oh, and TRON COCKTAIL TRIGGER STICKS too.  :)
Ok,  I know the molding process he used.  I had the same problem with my Road Blaster molds as I used a heavy duty latex.  The problem I ran into was the latex ripped after the 3rd try.  It wasn't cost effective to keep making the RB molds because the Latex would have cost more than the actual sale price of the grips.
I don't actually see a mold modification being a hard thing to do in order to mount to the replicas to Happ handles.   New molds could be made through the use of Woods Metal.  Their has got to be a better way to make long term molds, if this can happen than the Sticks could be sold at a much cheaper price.
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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2004, 02:29:42 am »

 it might be better to petition happ's to make the blue handles available instead.  they already have the design shape molds...  as well as all the parts.

 also, i think some nice concave translucent microswitch buttons to match would be great  : )

 

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2004, 09:22:42 am »

 it might be better to petition happ's to make the blue handles available instead.  they already have the design shape molds...  as well as all the parts.

 also, i think some nice concave translucent microswitch buttons to match would be great  : )

 

The problem with Happ's handles is the same as a straight repro from anybody, they don't fit anything but the original giant Tron/Gorf joystick mechanisms.  As long as we're having them re-molded anyway, it'd be cool to make them more hobby friendly by making them fit Supers or T-sticks or something we can all easily get and use.

Translucent buttons would be awesome.  Translucent ball-tops would be cool.  Once we get somebody set up to cast things in translucent, it'd be cool to have transluscent everything! :)

Oh... and TRON COCKTAIL TRIGGER BALL TOPS.  Maybe translucent...

Khenemet Heru

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2004, 03:48:26 pm »
Ok,  I know the molding process he used.  I had the same problem with my Road Blaster molds as I used a heavy duty latex.  The problem I ran into was the latex ripped after the 3rd try.  It wasn't cost effective to keep making the RB molds because the Latex would have cost more than the actual sale price of the grips.
I don't actually see a mold modification being a hard thing to do in order to mount to the replicas to Happ handles.   New molds could be made through the use of Woods Metal.  Their has got to be a better way to make long term molds, if this can happen than the Sticks could be sold at a much cheaper price.
I'd be interested in any info you can give me regarding that process, I was thinking of doing it myself; my thought was a process like the resin casting used for the japanese model kits, but my only experience with this sort of thing is metal casting (green sand or investment plaster type molds). I have 3 or four handles right now that I don't mind using for molding, all black Xenophobe type... You can PM me if you like, thanks!
-Shadowhawk
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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2004, 08:15:41 pm »
If you have the ability to make them, I REALLY think a LOT of people would like to be able to have the tron cocktail-style balltop trigger sticks. They're the most difficult to find of all...
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Khenemet Heru

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2004, 01:43:43 pm »
Hey Gamecab,

would this stuff work?

http://www.alumilite.com/howto.cfm?ID=6

my guess is the mold would break down like your latex mold, but maybe not as quickly? The finished product here looks awesome, but i imagine it's a hell of a lot of work...

-Shadowhawk
No Boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's ALWAYS a Boom tomorrow. - Cdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5

Gamecab

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2004, 11:41:57 pm »
Hey Gamecab,

would this stuff work?

http://www.alumilite.com/howto.cfm?ID=6

my guess is the mold would break down like your latex mold, but maybe not as quickly? The finished product here looks awesome, but i imagine it's a hell of a lot of work...

-Shadowhawk
Sorry, I've been under the weather for a few days. and YES, that will work, it's what I use and it's really not that hard to do.  I also use an injection molder for the smaller parts but that takes a lot of time.  Try the Alumilite,  the started kit cost me about $70 and It really is easy to learn.  Be advidsed, if you are going to mold a set of tron grips you will need about 5LBS or #2 Latex ($100) and just cross your fingers that you do not get air bubbles.
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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2004, 01:47:32 am »
good info!

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2004, 09:49:06 am »
Try the Alumilite,  the started kit cost me about $70 and It really is easy to learn.  Be advidsed, if you are going to mold a set of tron grips you will need about 5LBS or #2 Latex ($100) and just cross your fingers that you do not get air bubbles.

would setting the liquid on a jogger or vibrator-pad help to settle all the bubbles out before pouring the mold?
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mp2526

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2004, 10:00:19 am »
Try the Alumilite,  the started kit cost me about $70 and It really is easy to learn.  Be advidsed, if you are going to mold a set of tron grips you will need about 5LBS or #2 Latex ($100) and just cross your fingers that you do not get air bubbles.

would setting the liquid on a jogger or vibrator-pad help to settle all the bubbles out before pouring the mold?

Might take too long.  I'm not sure what the pot life on the #2 Latex mentioned above, but waiting to shake out all the bubbles may take too long.  The best way would be to use a vacuum chamber to suck the bubbles out, or a pressure pot (similar to what painters use) to compress all the bubbles out.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2004, 07:09:01 pm »

 Ive tried Alumilite.  A shape as thin as the handles on the trigger stick wouldnt hold up.  The stuff isnt very strong - and cracks into pieces if dropped.  

 The molding material is super expensive too.  I used the rtv rubber i believe.   with 1 mistake in the mold could cost you 40 to 50$ a pop.  I spent like $400+ to make a tron spinner... and unfortunately learned that the final part was impossible to make..   The encoder wheel was too thin for the plastic.. and cracked with the slightest pressure.  Way too frail to be usefull.

  Im sure theres more professional plastics out there... but even so... its gona take a good chunk of change to get to the final result... that and a lot of effort and skill.

  As for the comment about having a tron handle to fit on a happs super for instance:

     - a super or simular isnt strong enough for the added force that a longer shaft stick can produce.  The move leverage you have... the more strength you need to meet it.
 
  also... the springs wont return the stick to center properly because they are too weak.   they arnt meant to hold the extra weight of the enclosure + longer thicker shafts.

 (i noticed this on my stick mod)

  and finally...  happs should dwelve into the home/mame market.   if they dont... they might just vanish as so many arcades are vanishing.   if they do vanish - theres a lot of things that we currently can get hold of that may stop being availble or produced...   while we may be able to get these from other places... they may be getting them from happs at a discount price... or... a factory that makes them for happs may not get large enough orders (from happs),  so may be forced to stop producing them because its cheaper to make them in mass quantities.  

 

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2004, 07:56:09 pm »
 As for the comment about having a tron handle to fit on a happs super for instance:

     - a super or simular isnt strong enough for the added force that a longer shaft stick can produce.  The move leverage you have... the more strength you need to meet it.
 
  also... the springs wont return the stick to center properly because they are too weak.   they arnt meant to hold the extra weight of the enclosure + longer thicker shafts.

 (i noticed this on my stick mod)

I haven't had any trouble with my Tron sticks being on Supers as far as strength goes.  In other words, I haven't broken them.  They actually return to center properly too, though they do feel pretty loose due to the extra leverage and weight.  SlikStik carries heavier springs, and I have gotten a pair from them which I have yet to try out.  The easier way would be to modify my hack to work with a set of Competitions (easy to do), since they can be shipped with heavy duty springs in the first place.

Also, there is no need to modify the mold of the Tron grips to get them to fit.  All you need is a shaft made to hold them on.  You also need to modify your stick base to keep them from rotating.  I am looking into a solution for this so that I can include the sticks on my cabinets when I start production.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2004, 12:21:27 am »
Also, there is no need to modify the mold of the Tron grips to get them to fit.  All you need is a shaft made to hold them on.  You also need to modify your stick base to keep them from rotating.  I am looking into a solution for this so that I can include the sticks on my cabinets when I start production.
I have a Raider Pro hacked onto a Competition on my newest cab (your old Raider Pro handle, actually :)).  Bbut between using a shaft that isn't quite the same as the Competition, and doing the "nail in the shaft to keep it from rotating" trick, it still FEELS like a "hack".  It's the one component on the cabinet that isn't a genuine arcade control, and it does feel like it.  I have to agree that if Happ made a full-out professional Tron stick solution, I think a bunch of us would buy it.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2004, 01:51:11 am »

 you hit the nail with the hammer Sasquatch.

  while i was able to make some of my own controls.. i could feel the difference in the quality, play, durability..ect.

  i myself could be carefull not to break a controller from excess force... but i dont trust anyone else to be so carefull.  i know a bunch of people that react in such a way that would destroy my controls in a heartbeat.  and even so... i myself may eventually break them just because they arnt built as durable to last a long time.

  the tron sticks are built like tanks... and you can feel it.  you could smash the things from left to right as hard as possible... and they wouldnt flinch.  You didnt have to worry as you played.. wondering if you hit too hard, or feeling the thing bend or stress durring the shock.  Just pure concentration on the game... and confidence that your 'tank controls' were going to open a can of whoopa$$! : )

  as stated in another post...  most arcade controls were designed by top engineers and tested over and over till they were perfect in feel, control, and lastability.  These were playtested for hours and hours and hours.  Many revisions later... and finally got the best controllers possible. (unless they were rushed or overbudget..)    

  anyway.. think of it like this.  Do you like the feel of your car's controls better than the typical PC wheel/pedal set?



 ...strength, durability, weight, ballence, smooth  movment, no 'play',  perfect tention,  ect...

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2004, 02:29:23 am »
I'm sleepy, so if this seems ranty, please forgive, it's not meant that way, really...

While I agree with a lot that has been said about original controls over hacks, and esp. with regards to the Tron type sticks, I have to say that IMNSHO most of us that are including a trigger stick like that probably have considered it as an afterthought, and as such, a lot of the CP designs I have seen (including my own in-progress design) have not taken into account the fact that the under-panel guts of the Tron sticks are HUGE, both width-wise and depth-wise.  As such, a Happ's super or ultimate is in fact ideal given the tightness of space most of us have designed for, and really for gameplay should be sufficient for all but the most anal of authenticity police.

With that in mind, and given the fact that even though I have scavenged a 3/8" dia. threaded hollow steel rod from a lamp to act as my wired joystick shaft, I have been searching for a month locally and on the web for a good hardened steel shaft that I can attach to the threaded rod to act as a mount for the handgrips (that need a shaft much larger than 3/8" dia.) with no success...  (gasping for breath) I for one would be grateful for the design change we've all been talking about, as a handle designed for a smaller shaft would be much easier to mate to a variety of smaller joystick bases.

Granted accuracy is everything in restoration and is very good for emulation...  but sometimes practicality has to win out - and as I have just aquired an Astron Belt joystick (which is essentially a Tron stick with black grips and a bent steel shaft, to refresh the memory) for far too much money only to find it's way too big to fit in any CP I'll ever build, I am finally disgusted with accuracy and have swung fully over to the practical side... I WANT a hack.

there's my 2.45 cents, now I'm off to dreamland...  I'll probably have that dream where I'm being chased by Pac-Man again...

- Shadowhawk
No Boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's ALWAYS a Boom tomorrow. - Cdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5

Khenemet Heru

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2004, 02:36:26 am »
Ive tried Alumilite.  A shape as thin as the handles on the trigger stick wouldnt hold up.  The stuff isnt very strong - and cracks into pieces if dropped.  

 The molding material is super expensive too.  I used the rtv rubber i believe.   with 1 mistake in the mold could cost you 40 to 50$ a pop.  I spent like $400+ to make a tron spinner... and unfortunately learned that the final part was impossible to make..   The encoder wheel was too thin for the plastic.. and cracked with the slightest pressure.  Way too frail to be usefull.

  Im sure theres more professional plastics out there... but even so... its gona take a good chunk of change to get to the final result... that and a lot of effort and skill.

ok, i can buy that after seeing some of the how-tos on their website, but why make the grips that thin? we can change the mold to suit just by scraping away some clay - making it thicker, giving it a smaller bore for the handle, even making it solid if we wanted...

I did silversmithing and lost wax casting, so I do know what skill goes into modelmaking for casting, and yeah it's a lot of work, but the results are worth it. So the question then becomes 'If Alumilite resin is too flimsy, are there any other easily obtainable suggestions?' - or any brains we can pick that haven't chimed in?
No Boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's ALWAYS a Boom tomorrow. - Cdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2004, 06:18:10 am »
Quote
SasquatchI have a Raider Pro hacked onto a Competition on my newest cab (your old Raider Pro handle, actually ).  Bbut between using a shaft that isn't quite the same as the Competition, and doing the "nail in the shaft to keep it from rotating" trick, it still FEELS like a "hack".  It's the one component on the cabinet that isn't a genuine arcade control, and it does feel like it.

Sure it does, because it is a hack.  There's a lot of stuff on a lot of cabs out there that neither looks or feels like the real thing.  But it's a lot closer than playing DOT with the cursor keys and a mouse.  ;)

Quote
Xiaou2
As stated in another post...  most arcade controls were
designed by top engineers and tested over and over till they were perfect in feel, control, and lastability.  These were playtested for hours and hours and hours.  Many revisions later... and finally got the best controllers possible.

Or at least the best for the job of "played 24 hours a day in an unsupervized laundromat" controls.  The materials and design on a lot of arcade controls were overkill.  They were built not only to withstand a spirited game session, but to weather the attacks of the few a$$holes that would actually slam the controls with all their strength when they lost.  Most people don't need that kind of robustness in their home arcade.  Someone could probably come up with a slightly simplified, more compact base for a Tron stick that would do the job well enough to satisfy our expectations of authenticity, and for us to trust our rowdiest friends to play with, but maybe not the gangbanger with an attitude downtown.

Quote
anyway.. think of it like this.  Do you like the feel of your car's controls better than the typical PC wheel/pedal set?

That's going a bit too far.  Even the controls on the ultra-expensive top of the line multiplayer driving simulators at Gameworks can't compare with the real thing.  You'd have to start comparing the controls of a Battlezone cab to the controls of a real tank, or the pushbutton controls on Asteroids to the much more complex cockpit of the Space Shuttle.

I think a better analogy would be a comparison between my Honda Accord and my boss's $90,000 BMW.  I'm sure the components and design of the steering mechanism of his beemer are much more precise than my Honda, but I don't know if I'd notice a difference.  In the end, my car does as good a job for me as his does for him.

Someone COULD make a Tron stick setup that would do the same job (or again, a good enough job for the home gamer), without all the cost and bulkiness and overkill.  There's more than one solution to almost every problem, and often the best one is the simplest.

I'd love to tackle this issue myself as part of the development of my cab, but first I'd need a genuine Tron stick to test and tinker with.  Any volunteers?  ;)

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2004, 07:06:46 am »

 while you might find a way to make a cheap knock-off... thats all that it will be.
 
 have you ever played an tron arcade standup for any lenght of time?  seems like you have little idea about the way it feels or is constructed.

 Im pretty sure that you have a hacked pc trackball on your cab.  that pretty much says it all about how much you really care about game control.   In no way can you play even half as good with a pc trackball than with a real arcade version.

 its not that the trackball is 'overbuilt'.  its that PC trackballs are made to make money by cutting corners on quality.  they use either no bearings at all.. or ones that are of the worst quality imaginable.  they are clunky and dont spin much after you let them go with a quick roll.   not suitable for good scores or lasting long on any classic that uses a trackball.   arcade trackballs are meant to glide like ice - smooth and reliable so as not to mess up a players true motion intention in a critical situation.

 Now... you could say it like this...  If you knew you were going into battle in a forign land and had to choose which weapons to carry ... would you choose the cheap knock off weapons and take your chances?  or would you take the ones that were PROOVEN, DURRABLE, DEPENDABLE, more ACCURATE???

 obviously, cost is a factor in some peoples desigions for control.  this is why i initially built my own.  however... after the excitement wore off and the realization that my controls were sub-par... i knew i had to start to get the REAL controls.  

 its not that im super anal... its more like this...

    if you had played tennis for many years with the top of the line racket... then were forced to play with a racket that was 20yrs old with strings that threatened to fall off, weighed too much, had less bounce, non-aero dynamic..ect...   How would you feel?

  sure you could play... but you wouldnt do nearly as good.  youd be fusterated at the things you couldnt pull off like you used to with your other racket.  youd get defeated much more often... again, so fusterating that youd be in a litteral hell and couldnt enjoy the game as much.

  however... if you never played with a top racket, youd never know what your missing.  youd be content with crappy performance.   in fact.. maybe you only have a small passing interest in tennis at all... and dont care if you get your butt whooped in a few minutes of play.

 i think that is more like what im seeing from your comments.

  a true fan of the game that needed the controller would spare no expense on the correct controls.  nor would they design a controller without the needed depth.. or..  theyed happily modify thier controller to allow for the depth.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2004, 10:17:59 am »
a true fan of the game that needed the controller would spare no expense on the correct controls.  nor would they design a controller without the needed depth.. or..  theyed happily modify thier controller to allow for the depth.

this is true - if we (I) were building a Tron machine - let's focus here people, we're building a MAME machine (the vast majority of us are, anyway) to play all the games (even in the figurative sense of having them to play in theory even if we only play a fraction of the games we have on our cabs HDs) - there is no accuracy issue here, no absolute requirement for original, "battle-tested" controls here - and to think there is is self-limiting in the least...  

personally, I used to play Tron and Discs of Tron the most of any game made - but I don't give a damn about accuracy to the original, esp. since I find I get much better response from microswitches than leaf switches - I don't like having to haul the stick around to get maximum travel so I can actuate the leaf switches consistently, which I remember always having to do with Tron. I agree with 1up, anything is a hell of a lot closer to the original than playing with cursor keys and a mouse, and that's my goal. It's overkill to go any further.

And btw, I am using an Ultimarc trackball for the moment, I can't speak for anyone else - but I have used both Happ's and the Ultimarc, and don't feel enough difference (comparing apples to apples, both 2 1/4" size) to justify spending so much on a Happ's. But I guess that means my panel wouldn't be "arcade accurate" anyway...

Now, can we please get back on topic? we were primarily discussing ways to make a stick in this style we all love, and that's what I for one want to hear about. Not pissing matches over who's more accurate than whom... we can start a new thread for that.
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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2004, 06:31:45 pm »
have you ever played an tron arcade standup for any lenght of time?  seems like you have little idea about the way it feels or is constructed.

 Im pretty sure that you have a hacked pc trackball on your cab.  that pretty much says it all about how much you really care about game control.   In no way can you play even half as good with a pc trackball than with a real arcade version.

WOW.  I knew things would eventually get nasty and personal.  It always does whenever someone challenges your "expert opinion" for more than 2 posts in a row.

FYI, the PC trackball I am using is one of the better ones I've tried.  The spin on it is exactly the same as that on my Imperial (with metal bearings and metal rollers).  The Crayola is a 3" trackball and actually has a very good throw and a very arcade-like feel, but of course I did mod the encoder wheels a bit to get it there.  But it just shows that a cheap $20 trackball, with a few small design changes, can be up to snuff with an arcade trackball.  Throw in some metal rollers and bearings, and you would add maybe $10 to the price and have a damn decent trackball.

Would I replace the Crayola with a good arcade trackball?  Sure.  That was the whole point of getting the Imperial.  Its steel rollers will have a much longer life than the plastic rollers on steel pins in the Crayola.  It also would take exactly the same real estate under the CP as my Crayola mount.  The only real reason I haven't installed the Imperial is that I've given up on making any further mods to my "first draft" cab, and I'm moving on wholeheartedly to the production version.

How this all relates to the Tron stick is this:  I would love to be able to use a genuine Tron stick (including base) on my cabs.  But there are 2 major problems:

1) they are not made any more (not exactly like the original anyway) and so inclusion of those controls would depend on whether I could find NOS ones on Ebay, which could hold up orders, and most surely would require some refurbishing.  I am not planning to use ANY used components on my cabs.  

2) There is no way in hell that the guts of an original Tron stick will fit inside one of my rotating CPs, without a major redesign of them, which would either mean throwing the panels off their quite comfortable 15oangle, or making the cab much deeper and the CP assembly much larger (and heavier).  This means some sort of compromise is needed.  My solution would be a reinforced Competition, with heavier springs and a custom-machined metal shaft for the handles to mount on.

Let me explain one more thing about the Tron sticks on my cab in particular:  They really weren't put there to exactly duplicate the experience of playing Tron, but actually they are there to play Battlezone.  I just like the look of the Tron sticks better, as they are more "classic arcade" than the Happs grip assemblies, the Virtua-On type grips, or other options I may have used.  I will be trying to acquire a genuine Tron stick to study, and whatever solution I come up with for my own design, I will attempt to at least approximate the feel of the original.

Quote
Now... you could say it like this...  If you knew you were going into battle in a forign land and had to choose which weapons to carry ... would you choose the cheap knock off weapons and take your chances?  or would you take the ones that were PROOVEN, DURRABLE, DEPENDABLE, more ACCURATE???

It's interesting you chose this analogy.  Many people will tell you that the most reliable sidearm is a good old service revolver.  How can this be?  An automatic holds twice or thrice the number of bullets, is much more expensive, and has a lot more engineering put into it.  But its complexity is its own downfall.  It has many more moving parts to get gummed up, or lost during cleaning, and it is more prone to jamming.  The revolver is based on a much older, simpler design, but continues to out-perform many of the most state-of-the-art weapons.  Again, sometimes the simplest design is the best.

Quote
however... if you never played with a top racket, youd never know what your missing.  youd be content with crappy performance.   in fact.. maybe you only have a small passing interest in tennis at all... and dont care if you get your butt whooped in a few minutes of play.

Another interesting analogy.  Any athlete or artist will tell you it's the talent, not the tools.  Venus Williams with a ratty old wooden racket strung with catgut would still beat the bejeezus out of the average schlub with the latest carbon-fiber super sleek model with synthetic strings.

You could say the same with arcade games.  Some will tell you that nothing beats original hardware, in an original cab, with an original leaf balltop.  But if you put your average player on an original Pac-Man cab with a leaf stick, against the top Pac-Man player in the world on a Mame-based machine with a microswtich 4-way, who's going to win?  The winner is the one who knows the game best.  It doesn't matter that the hardware is slightly different.  Otherwise, none of the guys at work who are playing my microswitch-based controls would be able to get anywhere in the games, because the sticks are SOOOO different from what they used to play.   ::)

Anyway, I'll put this to rest now before someone locks this thread down.  It's really not worth arguing about further--either my idea will work, or it won't.  I'm not here to say that my way is the only way, or that it will definitely work, but it's possible and I'm going to give it a try.  But then, I'm used to taking on your challenges Xiaou2.  I seem to remember being told a couple years ago that a smaller rotating setup couldn't be done, because you made yours with the minimum inside space for all the controls to fit.  Also, according to you it wouldn't be able to fit seamlessly inside a standard-sized cab, because there would be no room for some kind of complex latching system or home-made disc-braking setup that was absolutley necessary to lock it all down...but in the end a simpler solution WAS possible!  :P

/rant

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2004, 11:56:33 pm »
Everyone!  Play nice!  Mr. Mineral will keep you after if you don't behave!  :)

The point I was trying to make by suggesting re-molding for 3/8" or 1cm shaft was to make it so that it would be really solid and not feel like a hack, because it would be a designed thing, not a hack.

My hack with the F-108 is almost "designed that way" solid, because it had a 3/8" sleeve inside it to begin with.  It really feels like it was designed to be on the Super I have it in.

Perhaps that's the answer... authentic Tron stick handles for both the hobbyists and the restorationists, and an inner molded sleeve that perfectly and solidly mates to the handles and the shaft, for those of us willing to risk the inauthenticity of creating an accursed half-breed Super/Tron. :)

A few issues to move this discussion forward constructively:

1) How far forward were the original Tron sticks angled?  I think they were supposed to be tilted far enough forward so that they stuck straight up (perpendicular to the floor) even in a tilted CP.  So is that 15 degrees? 10?  If we re-mold the sticks to match 1cm or 3/8" shafts, should we make the mold match the forward tilt of the original?

2) Tron sticks were imperfect 4-ways, in that they could be coaxed into the corners to go up-left etc.  This was because in light cycles and tanks you didn't want diagonals, but in the other two you did (or something like that).  This suggests to me that it would be nice to make our proposed Super/Tron sticks behave similarly.  How can we accomplish this?

My suggestions would be to persuade/enlist OSCAR to make some of his restrictors that cause the desired pseudo-8 effect.  Or make these handle/shafts so that they are mountable in one of the switch-from-above-the-CP sticks that have recently become available.

3) Wood or metal, or use the current "2 sleeve/spacers and 2 e-ring slots in the shaft" arrangement of the Supers to have both?

I don't care who winds up making these, but lets make it easy for whoever decides to by clearing up this stuff beforehand.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 12:08:20 am by MinerAl »

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2004, 12:04:16 am »
I had an idea for Cocktail Tron Sticks!

All we really need is the trigger part under the ball... On the real Tron Cocktail sticks there is that sleeve below the ball top.  

How hard would it be to make a sleeve with a button on the front/top of it that could slip around the shaft of any ball top stick?  

We could use 1UP's rotation inhibition hack just for the sleeve, the ball top could still spin, and it should be fairly easy to snake a couple of wires through to the bottom of the panel.

It's my idea, so I could be biased, but I think it'd work...

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2004, 12:24:17 am »

 haha, : )    lol

  well, it wasnt quite that.  The argument was to do with 3 panels not having enough depth for large controlls... which was true.   You did overcome this with an ingenious shape mod... and to that i highly praise you for.    I can surely apprecaite a great design... and im first in line to applaud it.  (its not like me -vs- you in the worlds greatist design competition! :P )    

 I really do not need the attention nor have the ego that bruises so easily.  i know im a good designer, but im willing to accept that some others are superior, or at least have thier shining moments.  im open minded - open to change my opinions at the drop of a pin based on truthfull evidences... as im a seeker of highest truths.  (in fact, im thinking of modding my design to be more like unclets recently...)

 as for the rest of the commentary... imop it is evassive at best.  nice try though.  though... i still think that you are grasping for some sorta ego boost rather than seeking a true answer at times.  like defending a known defect just to look good...

 I surely understand your situation as far as re-design goes.  its a real pain to try to rework things...

 the tron/competition stick is possible... tho imop may not be the best solution.  some may disagee... but i do think those people are the younger crowd that didnt grow up playing the real thing - and dont appreciate the lengths of exacting details to duplicate the correct controls propperly.

 even i myself was against leaf joys and switches... for many years.  I had trouble with a sms game called maze hunter - in which you had to move one square left, then 2 diagnols.. and jump right afterwords.  With the gamepad it came with.. i couldnt do it but like once in 10 tries.  but with the epix microswitch controller.. i got it every time perfectly.

 later though... i found a stand up robotron.  i fell in love with how well it controlled.  smooth round movment, quick, accurate, short throw, ease of travel, ... just perfect..

 trying it in mame with competitons, as well as analog mini thumb sticks... neither controlled the game as smooth and i was crushed by the enemy.  usually getting to like level 30 to 40 in the arcade... and getting to 15 at best with mame with the wrong controls.

 ive came full circle and really love leafs now. yeah... they are a pain to maintain.. but the feel they provide is worth the efforts.  i couldnt play robotron or any other classic without them anymore...

  you did mention the trackball...  well, its not that i was against other non arcade trackballs... rather, just against PC bases ones.  The one you specified.. sounded like an arcade one... but then again, i havnt researched it to know for sure.  i had thought your ball was a kidsball.. but i guess  i was wrong on that... sorry.

 as for the tron stick... i myself am in a turmoil about it.   im not sure i can float the 200$ it would take to aquire 2 of them with.  also.. its been said that they are hard to get diagnols with.  im not sure that any other dual stick game required superior accuracy tho... so maybe its not that important.  id definitely want the light cycle part to be controllable well in tron... as i do really like that game.   So i might need some sorta compromise or alternative.  this might end up being either hard diagnols... or dual sets of different types of dual sticks... or some sorta plate system that could be devised by a 3rd party?  

  anyway... think it over.  the more thought that goes into a design... the more flawless it becomes.  good luck.


 

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2004, 12:40:09 am »
Everyone!  Play nice!  Mr. Mineral will keep you after if you don't behave!  :)

But he started it first!  :-[  Heheh....  I promise to play nice now that I've let off a little steam.  I don't react well to needless personal jabs.

Quote
Perhaps that's the answer... authentic Tron stick handles for both the hobbyists and the restorationists, and an inner molded sleeve that perfectly and solidly mates to the handles and the shaft, for those of us willing to risk the inauthenticity of creating an accursed half-breed Super/Tron. :)

My thoughts exactly.  I am planning to make a prototype shaft that will have the necessary angle built into the neck. The shaft would be a 3/8" hollow steel tube, with the rotation restrictor pin, and a larger 1/2" or 5/8" tube connected to the top with bolts running crosswize thru both tubes, and properly spaced, threaded holes on the sides of the larger tube for connecting the grip.  Basically like my Tron hack but with all steel instead of plastic and aluminum. This would be much easier to accomplish than building a new mold for the grips (especially when there is already someone making the grips).

Quote
A few issues to move this discussion forward constructively:

1) How far forward were the original Tron sticks angled?  I think they were supposed to be tilted far enough forward so that they stuck straight up (perpendicular to the floor) even in a tilted CP.  So is that 15 degrees? 10?  If we re-mold the sticks to match 1cm or 3/8" shafts, should we make the mold match the forward tilt of the original?

The angle can probably be discerned from the Happ mounting view of the sticks from their site.

2) Tron sticks were imperfect 4-ways, in that they could be coaxed into the corners to go up-left etc.  This was because in light cycles and tanks you didn't want diagonals, but in the other two you did (or something like that).  This suggests to me that it would be nice to make our proposed Super/Tron sticks behave similarly.  How can we accomplish this?
Quote

I believe this was originally done with use of a rubber actuator, and a square restrictor. The restrictor made it act like a 4-way, but it could still be forced into the corners with a little pressure.  This made it easier to play lightcycles with right angles, while allowing more maneuverability in the MCP cone level.  I will be borrowing a Tron stick to test, and my main concern will be finding a way to do something similar with a Competition stick.

Quote
3) Wood or metal, or use the current "2 sleeve/spacers and 2 e-ring slots in the shaft" arrangement of the Supers to have both?

Should be easy enough to do the Happ method of notching the shafts.  I personally use 3/8" drill depth guides to clamp to the shafts of my present Tron/supers rather than e-rings.  Works just as well.  When I get to the point of machining shafts for production, I will probably opt for slots.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2004, 12:48:11 am »
Not wanting to jump into too deep a puddle, but a number of people are referring to the Super Joystick handle being 3/8". It is close but it isn't 3/8" it is 25/64". If you use a 3/8" handle it will be a little bit sloppy.

I am sure that this is too much detail at this point but I just wanted to note it.

I personally like the idea of more controls being made available.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2004, 12:49:16 am »
How about instead of a 3/8" tube, a 3/8" rod (as usual) with a machined lengthwise channel.  I don't know about competitions, but supers have those sleve thinggies that would hide the channel.

Then the strength of the shaft wouldn't be as in-question/compromised by using a thin metal tube.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2004, 12:55:47 am »
Not wanting to jump into too deep a puddle, but a number of people are referring to the Super Joystick handle being 3/8". It is close but it isn't 3/8" it is 25/64". If you use a 3/8" handle it will be a little bit sloppy.

I am sure that this is too much detail at this point but I just wanted to note it.

I personally like the idea of more controls being made available.

Yeah, I even had it figured more like 13/32, but those are not readily available.  I really dont' think anyone would notice it being like 1/64" off.  It's the end objective that we're after!  :)

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2004, 01:04:16 am »
It's really 1cm isn't it?

1cm = .39"

.39" x 64(ths) = 24.96

so yeah, 1cm = 25/64ths give or take .04 of a 64th of an inch.

It would be great if we could use a 1cm rod.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 01:06:29 am by MinerAl »

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2004, 01:10:17 am »
I just checked my handy-dandy 'plastic' hole guage and it says that 25/64" = 9.92mm. That is about as close to 1cm as you can get.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2004, 01:36:25 am »
haha, : )    lol
well, it wasnt quite that.  The argument was to do with 3 panels not having enough depth for large controlls... which was true.   You did overcome this with an ingenious shape mod... and to that i highly praise you for.    I can surely apprecaite a great design... and im first in line to applaud it.  (its not like me -vs- you in the worlds greatist design competition! :P )

Was that it?  I'd have to search the old boards to refresh, but I'll take your word for it.  All I remember is that I was kind of looking to you for some guidance, and I might have said something like your setup was too bulky (I do stuff like that sometimes) and maybe got on your bad side.  Anyway, water under the bridge, eh?

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I really do not need the attention nor have the ego that bruises so easily.  i know im a good designer, but im willing to accept that some others are superior, or at least have thier shining moments.  im open minded - open to change my opinions at the drop of a pin based on truthfull evidences... as im a seeker of highest truths.

Hey, no argument with you there.  I've always been impressed with some of the things you've done (the SiniStick for starters).

Quote
as for the rest of the commentary... imop it is evassive at best.  nice try though.  though... i still think that you are grasping for some sorta ego boost rather than seeking a true answer at times.  like defending a known defect just to look good...

Not at all.  In fact, I know that there are a lot of things in my cab and controls that are not ideal, not necessarily because of a design flaw, but due to a lack of proper tools to execute my plans properly.  This is why I am currently looking to people with experience in metalworking and such.  FYI, I am busy redesigning the hell out of my cab right now, redesigning rather than giving up because I know I have good ideas, they just need to be improved on.  I'm done hacking, and I'm trying to move on to a more professional approach to things.  This smells like just another jab at me, but I'm going to just let it slide.

Quote
the tron/competition stick is possible... tho imop may not be the best solution.  some may disagee... but i do think those people are the younger crowd that didnt grow up playing the real thing - and dont appreciate the lengths of exacting details to duplicate the correct controls propperly.

That's fine.  I'll sell to the other 90% who just want something that works without breaking the bank.  As someone pointed out above, unless you're making a dedicated Tron machine, it may not be worth it to have 100% authenticity, especially if you want to play other games where you need true 8-way mobility.  Personally, my main concern is being able to offer an arcade-like trigger stick on my cabinets.  For that purpose, I need something compact and cheap that approximates a Tron stick, while being functional in a variety of other games.  If others find this kind of compromise acceptable, I'll be happy to sell to them.

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you did mention the trackball...  well, its not that i was against other non arcade trackballs... rather, just against PC bases ones.  The one you specified.. sounded like an arcade one... but then again, i havnt researched it to know for sure.  i had thought your ball was a kidsball.. but i guess  i was wrong on that... sorry.

Actually, you were right.  I am using a Crayola PC Trackball, which is identical to a KYE Kidsball.  It is surprisingly accurate, rugged and smooth.  The ball spins for a couple seconds after a good roll.  I wouldn't trust it to last a long time in a sports bar, but it does well as a home arcade controller.  I also have an Imperial trackball, which I am saving for my first production cab, which will be coming home with me!

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anyway... think it over.  the more thought that goes into a design... the more flawless it becomes.  good luck.

Absolutely.  That's the purpose of all the posts I've been doing lately--to get input from potential customers.  My kits will be made without a major redesign, but for the full cabs, I need a lot of stuff custom made just to support the controls I want to offer.  Trust me, I'm thinking about this stuff day and night.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2004, 01:39:19 am »
I just checked my handy-dandy 'plastic' hole guage and it says that 25/64" = 9.92mm. That is about as close to 1cm as you can get.

Cool.  Where can I get 1cm steel tube in the US?  Never mind, I'm sure whatever machine shop I use can get it.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2004, 01:53:22 am »
The old posts are in here somewhere, but I seem to recall that his molds degraded after a few castings and he had to make new ones, or he quit after the one set he made degraded, or something to that effect.

Brand new Happs handles could be used for making new casts, but I'm guessing there might be legal stuff...

I'd like to see someone make new casts that are modified at the casting level for 3/8" or 1cm hollow shafts suitable for immediate use in a super, or one of the switchable 4/8 ways that are popular here.  That way there's be no weird plastic reducers a'la 1UP's hack.  Just a nice solid connection to a super shaft.

That kind of better mousetrap would have arcade hobbyists beating a path to somebody's door.

Oh, and TRON COCKTAIL TRIGGER STICKS too.  :)

Just reading back thru the earlier posts...

The main reasons I think it would be better to make a replacement shaft that fits the existing Happ or repro blue grips:

1) A shaft could be available much sooner than a new mold.  If someone is not already working on this new mold, it will probably be months of experimentation before it is available.

2) Different shafts could be easily made for different types of sticks (Super, Comp, T-stick, E-stick, Omnistick etc) by just substituting a different size tube for the bottom part, and keeping the same size tube for the top which fits to the already available grips.

3) The metal work for custom shafts is much cheaper than the molding involved with making special handles.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2004, 02:36:42 am »
Or at least the best for the job of "played 24 hours a day in an unsupervized laundromat" controls.  The materials and design on a lot of arcade controls were overkill.  They were built not only to withstand a spirited game session, but to weather the attacks of the few a$$holes that would actually slam the controls with all their strength when they lost.  Most people don't need that kind of robustness in their home arcade.  Someone could probably come up with a slightly simplified, more compact base for a Tron stick that would do the job well enough to satisfy our expectations of authenticity, and for us to trust our rowdiest friends to play with, but maybe not the gangbanger with an attitude downtown.
This is exactly what I was getting at, oddly enough.  Again, it's not "arcade quality", and it's evident.

Unlike Xiaou2, who's primary focus seems to be accuracy, mine is more of concern of durability.  I dunno...maybe I'm just being overly-protective, but I wouldn't leave the cabinet unattended for fear of the Raider stick breaking because some knucklehead leaned on it with all of his body weight.  I have no qualms about people jamming on the Wicos that I have, because they are built to be abused, but I can't say that same for the Raider.

If you (or someone else) offered a complete DURABLE handle/shaft assembly that would drop into a Competition stick base, I'd be all over it.  :)

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2004, 03:30:29 am »
If you (or someone else) offered a complete DURABLE handle/shaft assembly that would drop into a Competition stick base, I'd be all over it.  :)


We'll see how it goes.  Once I have a set ready, I'll buy a case of beer and turn the boys at work loose on CP#2, and see what happens.   However, at what point would you consider them strong enough?  Even the original Tron stick's metal frame probably wouldn't stand up to, say, someone grabbing on to the handle with both hands, putting both feet on the CP, and yanking hard enough to turn the cabinet over...

But, I would expect to make something that you don't have to treat like a dainty flower.  If you're talking about something strong enough that you don't have to worry about accidentally playing too hard with it, then I think I can deliver.  If you're talking about someone intentionally abusing or vandalizing it, then you need to get new friends.   :)

Actually, maybe a metal base built similarly to a Competition base is the answer. Then Competition parts could be mounted on it.  Maybe the mounting plate could even be the same as a Tron base!  I'm not sure how much it would cost to make, but I might as well find out while I'm pricing shafts...

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2004, 03:30:35 am »
Where on the Happ's site are these handles located? I couldn't seem to find them.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2004, 03:42:51 am »
Where on the Happ's site are these handles located? I couldn't seem to find them.

Go to the Joysticks section.  Go to the tron joystick.  Click on "mounting/exploded views".  In the diagram that follows, note the part numbers for the handle halves.  Click on "my cart".  Type the numbers into the text box and submit.  You will get a price and can add the item (in the quantity you want) to your cart.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  :)

This will work with almost any part of any control on the Happ site, including the microswitches, switch brackets, screws and springs you will probably need to make the handles useful.  Watch out for the thumb buttons--they're kinda pricey (about $10 each, while the handle costs about $12 for both halves together IIRC)

Good luck.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2004, 07:33:23 am »
That's fine.  I'll sell to the other 90% who just want something that works without breaking the bank.
Not taking sides here, but I wanted to say that I'm in the 90% of the people 1Up is talking about.

I DO have two cheap $4 PC trackballs on my cab.  They won't work very well for golden-T Golf, and they're not even great for Centipede, but they're not too bad for C.A.B.A.L., and they sure beat playing with one mouse and the cursor keys.

Will I eventually add at least one arcade-quality trackball? - Probably, but it's more likely to be a Wico than a Happs, and it's not a high priority for me.
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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2004, 07:30:40 pm »
However, at what point would you consider them strong enough?  Even the original Tron stick's metal frame probably wouldn't stand up to, say, someone grabbing on to the handle with both hands, putting both feet on the CP, and yanking hard enough to turn the cabinet over...
I would say that if it was on par for durability with a Happ or a Wico stick, then that would be the point that I would consider them "strong enough".  I obviously not on the lookout for something that you described (putting enough weight on it to flip the cabinet over), just something that can stand up to vigorous gameplay without having to think about or worry about it.
Quote
If you're talking about something strong enough that you don't have to worry about accidentally playing too hard with it, then I think I can deliver.  If you're talking about someone intentionally abusing or vandalizing it, then you need to get new friends.   :)
"I need for my friends to get new kids" and/or "I need to get new nephews" would be more along the lines of what I'm thinking of. :)  But yeah, I know what you mean.
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Actually, maybe a metal base built similarly to a Competition base is the answer. Then Competition parts could be mounted on it.  Maybe the mounting plate could even be the same as a Tron base!  I'm not sure how much it would cost to make, but I might as well find out while I'm pricing shafts...
The big reason that I'm thinking of a "drop-in" type solution is because I already have holes drilled out for the Competition on my CP, and I'd hate to have to redo the whole damn CP to swap out to a different stick.  I'm very curious to see what you find out.  

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2004, 11:26:43 pm »
I used 3/8" stainless steel brake line from the atuo parts store. I think it was about $5. Used the I-stick and 1-up nail stabilizer. I removed the buttons and the hat on top and will be adding a tron like logo. Works very well. Also added blue neon el wire to light it up. Now building new CP to add to. I would love to get authentic TRON styled handles.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2004, 04:45:59 pm »
I used 3/8" stainless steel brake line from the atuo parts store. I think it was about $5. Used the I-stick and 1-up nail stabilizer. I removed the buttons and the hat on top and will be adding a tron like logo. Works very well. Also added blue neon el wire to light it up. Now building new CP to add to. I would love to get authentic TRON styled handles.

Pictures please!  From lots of angles, even if it isn't finished yet.  Please.

Thank you.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2004, 02:17:04 am »
Some good news:  I've found a place that can extrude custom metal tubing to almost any size or shape. I'll have to see what they charge, but it would be nice to get the perfect size.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2004, 03:56:32 pm »
1up -

Will you be selling custom parts - like the Tron sticks - separately from/in addition to your full kits?  I still want to build my own cab, but it'd be great to have the Tron sticks that are significantly less expensive than originals.

Thanks

Coleman

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2004, 04:03:21 pm »
Hi, i was just wondering where things stood on this, as I haven't heard anything from 1up since we talked about him receiving the Tron stick I sent him. Any further leads or progress?

we're all anxiously awaiting the fruits of this experiment to be sure!  ;D
No Boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's ALWAYS a Boom tomorrow. - Cdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2004, 05:02:33 pm »
Hi, i was just wondering where things stood on this, as I haven't heard anything from 1up since we talked about him receiving the Tron stick I sent him. Any further leads or progress?

we're all anxiously awaiting the fruits of this experiment to be sure!  ;D

I'm ordering a few different joysticks from Happ and Ultimarc as possible candidates.  However, this currently has to take a back seat to getting the kits into production.  I've been in heavy post-production crunch time for the past few weeks finishing my work on Sky Captain, and haven't had a spare moment to do the work needed to get things rolling.  Once I have a finished cab I'll look more at getting the controls right for the full cabinets.  I promise I'll post as soon as things have progressed!

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2004, 12:44:01 pm »
Doh!  Didn't ever see this topic.  :-[

I've been thinking about offering repro Tron grips, in fact-  I have a Xenophobe grip on the way from Happ to use to make a mold.

I don't want to step on any toes, 1UP clearly had this going first- though I was just mainly going to offer shells, I was thinking about maybe getting machined parts made that would basically adapt the tube in the Tron stick down to fit a Happ stick, like a Super or Competition.  

Basicially my idea was you'd take your Happ shaft out, drop in the adapter, install the E clips, and your Tron grip would attach to the new shaft.  Not arcade accurate, but it would probably be "good enough".   Sure, you couldn't do chin-ups with it- but you couldn't with a real Tron stick either. ;)  My feeling is if you want to re-create the Tron experience, just drop the 134 bucks on a stick from Happ, and get NOS or repro grips.

1-UP, let me know me doing this is going to be a problem.  I can just make grips for myself, trading and for Ebay or whatever.  Like I said, I don't want to step on any toes- but I'm probably a month or so away from being able to offer handles.  


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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2004, 03:12:29 pm »
Doh!  Didn't ever see this topic.  :-[

I've been thinking about offering repro Tron grips, in fact-  I have a Xenophobe grip on the way from Happ to use to make a mold.

I don't want to step on any toes, 1UP clearly had this going first- though I was just mainly going to offer shells, I was thinking about maybe getting machined parts made that would basically adapt the tube in the Tron stick down to fit a Happ stick, like a Super or Competition.  

Basicially my idea was you'd take your Happ shaft out, drop in the adapter, install the E clips, and your Tron grip would attach to the new shaft.  Not arcade accurate, but it would probably be "good enough".   Sure, you couldn't do chin-ups with it- but you couldn't with a real Tron stick either. ;)  My feeling is if you want to re-create the Tron experience, just drop the 134 bucks on a stick from Happ, and get NOS or repro grips.

1-UP, let me know me doing this is going to be a problem.  I can just make grips for myself, trading and for Ebay or whatever.  Like I said, I don't want to step on any toes- but I'm probably a month or so away from being able to offer handles.  



Hey, no problem.  I'm nowhere near doing my sticks yet, so knock yourself out.  I can't expect to corner the market on Tron sticks.  I've got to get my handles from someone else anyway.  If someone manages to make a Tron-compatible shaft that meets my expectations, I'd have no problem buying from them myself just to save me from the extra work.

I would recommend that you make the shafts bent like the Happ ones though, and you need to figure out a way to keep them from rotating on the base.  It's not enough to just make a shaft that "adapts" to a Happ base, there are other problems to consider too.

Good luck.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2004, 10:59:57 pm »
Hey, no problem.  I'm nowhere near doing my sticks yet, so knock yourself out.  I can't expect to corner the market on Tron sticks.  I've got to get my handles from someone else anyway.  If someone manages to make a Tron-compatible shaft that meets my expectations, I'd have no problem buying from them myself just to save me from the extra work.

I would recommend that you make the shafts bent like the Happ ones though, and you need to figure out a way to keep them from rotating on the base.  It's not enough to just make a shaft that "adapts" to a Happ base, there are other problems to consider too.

Good luck.

Cool, hopefully I won't disappoint.

I kind of misstated, actually what I mean as the "adapter" would be the replacement shaft.  This would have the bend in it, then it would fit inside a shorter version of the regular bent Tron shaft, which the grips attach to.  Don't know if it would work, but that's part of the fun is trying. :)

Though I see what you're saying.  There's a lot more to it.  It'll definitely take some research.

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Re:Want to build (or buy) a Tron stick...
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2004, 01:13:05 am »
I've been in heavy post-production crunch time for the past few weeks finishing my work on Sky Captain, and haven't had a spare moment to do the work needed to get things rolling.  

You are a god!  That film looks *SO* sweet I just can't wait till it comes out..It's simply unbelieveable the quality of the CG work in that puppy...Ever since hearing about it on aintitcoolnews and seeing some of the pics I've been drooling waiting for it..

- other than the humans, nothings real - right?

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Pull a year and a half strike- it's over 4eva..
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