Using a direct drive wheel for Pole Position

[Namco]

Has anyone tried using a direct drive wheel for spinner games like Pole Position? It would be an elegant solution in a dedicated driving cabinet to switch between 270 degree games and spinner games if it works.

I've been thinking about taking an Atari wheel with an optical encoder and designing a lever and gear mechanism that would couple and de-couple it to a potentiometer. But if it could be done easily using a DD wheel, then that's the way to go IMHO. Thoughts?

[Fursphere]

When my Fanatec DD wheels are powered on, there is a FF 'drag' that is constant.  Its light, but its not the free-spinning smooth rotation of a spinner / proper 360 wheel. 

That said, I've never actually gotten around to trying it.   I've been noodling over building a Super Off Road cabinet from scratch for 360 wheel games, but I'm not sure I actually have room for it.  (that sucker is huge - my Daytona Twin already takes up a massive piece of real estate).

Let me go mess with it and see what happens.   

[Fursphere]

It works.    Fanatec CSL DD 8mn

The Good - Pole Position setup was easy.   Wheel, gas, brake, shifter (put my Fanatec shifter in sequential mode, and just pushed forward to register the shifter button).  The clutch pedal was trying to register as everything until I pumped it a few times to self-calibrate it.  (this is kinda normal - same for the analog handbrake)

The Bad - Sensitivity is way off.  Going to take some work to figure out the right settings to get it to play right.  I crashed on purpose, because with a 270' wheel wherever the wheel is pointing when the car respawns will be the 'new' center position, and that's exactly what happened with the Fanatec DD - but it didn't care as it was in 360' mode.  So that barrier is overcome.

The Ugly - To get rid of the 'drag' on the wheel, I went into the Fanatec app and set "Sensitivity" to Auto (this is where you'd set 270 degree travel for example) "Force Feedback" to 0%, and 'Natural Damper" to 0%.   This made it just spin freely, like a spinner.  This sucks because the Fanatec app sucks.  There is no command line support, so you'll have to go into this app and change profiles manually for different games.   This seems to be the norm for sim racing gear - Logitech is the only one I know of that has a robust gaming profile automation package.  Too bad Logitech wheels suck for other reasons.  Now that Fanatec is under new ownership (Corsair) maybe they'll revisit the software package. 

I've thought about automating the Fanatec Profiling software with AutoIT or something.   (You could probably count TAB stops and use AHK too...  seems to work).  You only get 5 profiles without having to adjust sliders, but that would probably be enough for most things. 

Well.  thanks a lot.   Now I have to re-consider a whole bunch of games I had originally dismissed because I didn't have a 360 wheel.  But apparently I actually do (two of them actually).   

[Namco]

Amazing. Thank you for trying it out and reporting back! It sounds very promising. If Fanatec doesn't have a way to set the wheel via commandline, maybe Moza or another vendor does.

[Fursphere]

Might be a way to do it with Fanalab software.   I haven't messed with it in awhile.   

[Xiaou2]

Has anyone tried using a direct drive wheel for spinner games like Pole Position? It would be an elegant solution in a dedicated driving cabinet to switch between 270 degree games and spinner games if it works.

I've been thinking about taking an Atari wheel with an optical encoder and designing a lever and gear mechanism that would couple and de-couple it to a potentiometer. But if it could be done easily using a DD wheel, then that's the way to go IMHO. Thoughts?

 I came up with the same idea, ages ago... but due to health issues... I never got to build it...

 Rough Sketch in MSPaint

 Looking back at it now... there is one Flaw.  It needs Gearing for the Pot part of the Assembly.   Other than that,
its pretty solid in concept... and shouldnt really be that difficult to create such a device.

[Xiaou2]

I made a slightly better easier to see,  Top View sketch.
Only two main things missing:

1)  Return to Center Spring Mechanism
2)  Handle to Pull and Push sliding Assembly, into place + Spring-Locks  (or Neo-Magnets)

[Fursphere]

If you're wheel has buttons, I things will get complicated with the connections. 

If you're using an old Model 2 / Model 3 wheel system, sure, go for it.  If you swapped out the potentiometer for a rotary encoder, you could then instead make the wheel stops removable instead of push/pulling the wheel to disconnected it too. 

...Or just buy a modern DD wheel apparently.

[Xiaou2]

Now that I think about it...  I believe Buttons on the wheel, was one reason why I didnt start
building the device, early on.   Mostly, because of the desire to play Spy Hunter properly.

Today, things are a little different.  You can get pretty good Wireless interfaces / Wireless controllers.
As such, you could make a wheel that had all of the wireless electronics, self contained, within the center
of the wheel.

One thing about Spy Hunter... is that you NEED a very strong wheel to play it properly.  You see... in order to
be able to Bash the Armored cars off of the road... you have to turn the wheel as quickly as possible.

 The game actually Calculates the acceleration of your Wheel-Turn.. as well as the Degree/Amount of turn...
and combines that with the data of how fast your car is going, and all of the same data... against the baddies car.

 If the you and the baddie bumped at the same time... but he had more "Acceleration" in his wheel turn...
then he would "Win" the exchange... and your car would be bounced away..  instead of you sending him
off the road.

 In order for the wheel to handle this level of Stress... they created one of the most Durable wheel assemblies, that
Ive ever seen.   There are two CM thick metal arms, that each have a thick 1" diameter Rubber Bumper on them.
When you turn the wheel to the end of its travel... the rubber bumper hits a Trapezoidal shaped metal shape... stopping
the wheel from turning any further.   The Rubber Bumper absorbs most of the Impact forces... preventing
damages to the metal "Stop-Block".   And those CM thick metal arms... are super strong, with Zero flex, and there is
no way that a human could bend them, no matter how hard that you slam the wheel.

 There were however... two issues with the wheel design.

1)  The Centering Spring method that it used, wasnt perfect.  Eventually the springs would lose some of their tension... and
the wheel wouldnt always return to the exact center of the wheel.   This really isnt that big of an issue, because you are
never removing your Grip from the wheel... and are constantly steering, evading things.

2)  The Assemblies used higher Tooth Gear sets,  and a higher resolution POT... to give much greater
analog control values (ranges).   The smaller teeth on the gears... wasnt an issue... until some assembly screws
got loose... and then the teeth didnt line up 100%.   Once that happened... the misaligned teeth Grinded into each
other.. and wore down, and or broke some Gear-Teeth.

 If the Arcade Op kept up on Maintenance... then the thing probably would have lasted forever.  But, because an
Arcade OP is a very busy person... it was common for such a thing to end up happening.  It might have took a
good 5 years for those Assembly screws to work their way loose... but once it happened, the gear wear and destruction,
probably took place in less than 2 months time.


 As far as Direct Drive goes... The only direct drive wheel that I dealt with  (As an Arcade Manager / Repair dude), was
on the Atari "Race Driving" sit down arcade machine.   It used a MASSIVE motor, that was like the size of a Washer/Dryer
motor.  I think it weighed 50 lbs.  Was like 1ft long, and +9 inches in diameter.   It was a Brushed Motor... so you had to
replace the Carbon Blocks, every decade (or longer, depending on usage).

 That particular wheel... had a decent amount of Magnetic Resistance / friction... when you turned the wheel... even when
it wasnt powered on.   Looking into the motor, there were like 100 contact pads on the motor itself, that the Carbon Blocks
rode over.  You could "Feel" resistance of each of those spots, as you turned the wheel... even when the wheel wasnt
powered.

 It definitely couldnt have been used to play a game like Super-Sprint... where you have to Spin the wheel as fast as possible,
let it free-spin for like 4 turns.. before stopping it with your hands, at the correct car angle.   Way too much friction, for
free-spinning type games.

 Maybe the motors in the modern PC wheels... dont have nearly as much resistance.  Maybe they use Brushless motors.
Not sure.

[Fursphere]

I actually had a full complete spy hunter control panel and gas pedal at one point.  I think they got tossed out when we moved (I'm still upset about it).   I got it for like $50 on ebay or something...    now when I see them they're $400 - $500...     

That game was designed to BEAT ON, VIOLENTLY.   The control panel was so heavy.   So much steel in that thing.  Huge wheel stops too.

[Fursphere]

Maybe the motors in the modern PC wheels... dont have nearly as much resistance.  Maybe they use Brushless motors.
Not sure.

The Fanatec CSL DD is definetly brushless.   And it uses some sort of optical / induction slip ring system for the connection to the wheel for all the buttons and wires.    It can spin forever.  Its pretty smooth too when you turn off all the force feedback stuff. 

[Xiaou2]

I actually had a full complete spy hunter control panel and gas pedal at one point.  I think they got tossed out when we moved (I'm still upset about it).   I got it for like $50 on ebay or something...    now when I see them they're $400 - $500...     

That game was designed to BEAT ON, VIOLENTLY.   The control panel was so heavy.   So much steel in that thing.  Huge wheel stops too.

 I eventually bought a Standup version of Spy Hunter,  at an Auction.. for like $800.
Then needed to buy a replacement control panel + pedal Set... because the pedal on mine, had a nearly sheared Arm,
and pretty bad Gear Wear.

 Due to hard times... I was forced to Sell it.  It was like losing a part of my Soul...
 as it truly was my Favorite Game of All Time.

 I Restored every Controller on it.  Freshly Painted the parts.  And sold it on Craigslist, for a little less than I had into it
(as far as I recall).

 I believe the guy whom bought it, also visits this site.  He had intended to gut the machine, to use the parts for
a smaller custom build cabinet, that was mounted to his wall.   But after seeing the controllers, and experiencing
the machine in person... He stated that he would try to keep it, As-Is.

 He said he wasnt sure if his wife was going to allow him to keep it...
but after his young Son fell in love with the game... it was all Good.

 Nice Guy.   But Ill always Miss that game.  If you can find a working machine, with good gears, its worth the
Grand that you will likely have to pay for it.   Its the most Replayable, Enjoyable, and Adrenalin pumping games..
outside of maybe Robotron.

 But unlike Robotron.. Spy Hunter appeals to almost anyone, of any skill level.  Where as Robotron can Spank
someone so hard... that it can totally turn them off.

[Fursphere]

Spy Hunter is what happens when you let a pinball machine designer build a video arcade game.   All the light outputs, the multiple buttons on the yoke.  The whole thing is great.   George Gomez created a master piece with that one. 

A vertical shooter disguised as a spy-theme racing game.  With all the toys.