Optimal Controls On Each Cabinet How Many Layouts?

[aArcade]

Hey guys, I'm a decades long lurker. I read the book years ago. I am finally in a place where finishing the basement is a light at the end of the tunnel. In that time I have fallen out of love with the all in one cabinet. I have room for a few, but I want to be conservative with space where I can. I have built several usb arcade sticks over the years and I have found the 8 way with all the buttons to be less than ideal. An 8 way on a 4 way game just sucks.

My question is mostly directed at those of you who have multiple cabinets and like to entertain. Arcades peaked for me in the early to mid 90's. Co-op 4 player was as good as it got. the earlier games I played, but I was always looking at the newer stuff back then.

These are my ideas so far:
4player beatem up 8way joystick with 3 buttons covering xmen, simpsons, sunset riders, pusnisher, Cadillacs and dinosaurs ect
2 player vs fighting 8way joystick with 6 buttons for street fighter and mortal combat ect.
1 player rotary 2 button for tempest and arkanoid
1 player dual stick 4way for robotron and?
1 or 2 player driving wheel
1 player track ball for Centipede golden tee
Dual light gun for area51 and revolutionx

That is 7 machines and probably more than I can handle, but I am considering @2084's wall mount solution or some combo of both. Am I missing anything? What do you guys find works in your game rooms? I find all games on one machine, is an overwhelming choice too.

Thanks in advance.

[BadMouth]

Couple observations based on my experience (not necessarily about layout).

I did a curved layout with convex buttons because I wanted my cab to look modern.  If doing it over, I would do the plain "straight 6" street fighter layout with convex CONCAVE (corrected) buttons.  On games with more than 3 buttons I find myself looking down at my hands to reposition my fingers because there is nothing to index or center on the convex buttons.  I wanted the "4 in a row" for NEO GEO games (and my cab is NEO GEO themed), but found that I like using my thumb on the first button in the second row rather than reaching with a pinky or ring finger for that fourth button.

Some steam games like Castle Crashers require something like 8 buttons per player for all four players.  One of the new Mortal Kombat games I installed required me to map every button on the controller before exiting the mapping screen and I had to jump a wire because I only had 7 buttons instead of 8.
If not worried about PC games, 6 is fine for P1&2.  IIRC there are two or three games in MAME that used four buttons for P3 & 4.  Most notably the dungeons and dragons games.  IIRC Guilty Gear Isuka (demul emulator) uses 5 for player 3 & 4, but it's not worth adding a 5th button for IMO. If not worried about those, 3 is enough. 

Robotron used 8 way sticks.

What to do about 4 way joysticks depends on whether it is the feel or just the function that is important to you.
You can get automatic 4/8 way switching joysticks (based on Sanwa JLW IIRC) from Ultimarc.  https://www.ultimarc.com/arcade-controls/joysticks/servostik/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyoi8BhDvARIsAO_CDsDQ1VTwb_L3fuNQ-DsTNRR9myU1pDlwAVJdf1cTZ-919pEXQshrauYaAgb9EALw_wcB
  They'll simplify the control panel, but won't have the stiffer centering grommet feel of a Pacman stick.  I can't comment on how they feel as I haven't used them.
 
If you want the 90's Mortal Kombat/Street Figher/Side scrolling Beat 'em up feel, then IL Eurosticks are the way to go IMO, but I am not aware of any 4/8 way switching solutions for them.  I'm using Sanwa JLFs, but it took like $200 worth of modifications to get them to feel right and some of the parts I used are no longer available.  The big thing with JLFs is having to add a stiffer spring to make them feel more like a 90's joystick, but that causes some binding which requires a ton of lubing to overcome and wears parts out faster. 

Playing driving games standing up sucks.  Playing driving games without an analog gas pedal causes issues in some games like pole position.  If you do not slowly apply the gas, the tires will spin and cost you enough time that you cannot progress in the game.  There are options in MAME to convert the button press into a virtual analog signal that ramps up and down, but I'm yet to see someone implement it well enough to enjoy the games.  Just use the spinners and enjoy some Sprint/Ivan Stewart's Offroad with them.  You can get away with on/off gas in those games.

Most important thing is to heed the picture in my signature.

 

[PL1]

1 player dual stick 4way for robotron and?

The wiki has a list of dual joystick games.
- Many need buttons and some support 2-player simultaneous play.

https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Games_with_Dual_Joysticks


Scott

[BlueGhost]

Here's how I'm attempting to cover everything, well mostly everything.

I'm finishing up a 2 player pedestal with 6 button per player and a trackball.  The two joysticka are JLFs with GRS 2 way 4 way servos.  This will cover everything from classica to fighters and Golden Tee.  I also have a pair of gun4ir guns for the pedestal .

 Right next to the pedestal will be a cabinet with 2 rotary u360s and 6 button per player.  This should cover anything the pedestal can play with joysticks plus Qbert, Ikari Warriors and so on. 

I'm going to install a KVM between the pedestal and cabinet so I can "link" them for 3/4 player games and dual stick per player games.

I plan on adding a Tron cabaret to handle spinner games and flight stick games.  Also planning a Ms Pac-Man cabaret with a 4 way leaf joystick, leaf buttons and possibly a 2.25 inch trackball.

[Fursphere]

I'm going to install a KVM between the pedestal and cabinet so I can "link" them for 3/4 player games and dual stick per player games.

I'd love to hear your plan on making this work.   I've thought about it a lot, but never quite got all the pieces sorted out.

[Fursphere]

These are my ideas so far:
4player beatem up 8way joystick with 3 buttons covering xmen, simpsons, sunset riders, pusnisher, Cadillacs and dinosaurs ect
2 player vs fighting 8way joystick with 6 buttons for street fighter and mortal combat ect.
1 player rotary 2 button for tempest and arkanoid
1 player dual stick 4way for robotron and?
1 or 2 player driving wheel
1 player track ball for Centipede golden tee
Dual light gun for area51 and revolutionx

I have two near identical cabinets I've built, difference is one has a trackball, other has a spinner.  This is because I got tired of spending money when I was ordering parts.   

For 4 player games, you can use Retroarch w/ FBNeo to get Players 1 & 2 running on Cab #1, then #3 and #4 on Cab #2 w/ Netplay. 

I currently have Sanwa JLF sticks in both cabs with octagon restricters.  This is good enough for me for 4-way joystick games.  I am going to swap out the joysticks in Cab #2 for Sanwa JLW sticks with Ultimarc's 12 position rotary joystick encoders though, because I have some weird obsession with Heavy Barrel that I can't kick.  Cab #1 will keep the JLF sticks. 

For driving games....    I built a twin sit down driving cabinet.  So I can't help you save money there.   

Lastly - twin-stick games.   Smash TV for example. 

I'm going to build a stand alone control panel with dual twin-sticks for two player Smash TV / Total Carnage / etc games.   This goes down a crazy road, because you end up looking for sticks with buttons too.  There are a lot of variations.  (no buttons, 1 button per stick, 2 buttons per stick.. etc).   I think I can make a clip-on style bracket where I can temporary hang the twin stick box off the front of one of my cabs and USB connect it when needed, then set it aside when I don't.   

Also, a lot of twin stick games used leaf button joysticks, and feel weird with micro-switch sticks.  So..   how 'pure' do you wanna get?   Because its gets complicated and expensive. 

[BlueGhost]

I'm going to install a KVM between the pedestal and cabinet so I can "link" them for 3/4 player games and dual stick per player games.

I'd love to hear your plan on making this work.   I've thought about it a lot, but never quite got all the pieces sorted out.

I bench tested the KVM.  I was using a  dual monitor HDMI KVM, and had two matching 27 inch monitors and 2 matching 1080x360 marque screens.  I found I had to add amplified HDMI splitters on the "master" system before the KVM.  Other than that it all seemed to work.  I had to make sure the "slave" system was exited to the front end before switching over to 4 player mode, otherwise MAME had problems when it switched back to 2 player.

I was originally going for 2 cabinets with identical monitors, but now that I switched to a pedestal I need to check that it still works with the TV and a monitor.  I don't think it will be a problem as long as they are the same resolution and refresh rates.

I haven't worked out the software side yet.  I think I'm just going to use big box and 2 instances of MAME, one prefering 2 player roms and one preferring 4 player.  Then do the rest by editing game list.

[Fursphere]

I'm going to install a KVM between the pedestal and cabinet so I can "link" them for 3/4 player games and dual stick per player games.

I'd love to hear your plan on making this work.   I've thought about it a lot, but never quite got all the pieces sorted out.

I bench tested the KVM.  I was using a  dual monitor HDMI KVM, and had two matching 27 inch monitors and 2 matching 1080x360 marque screens.  I found I had to add amplified HDMI splitters on the "master" system before the KVM.  Other than that it all seemed to work.  I had to make sure the "slave" system was exited to the front end before switching over to 4 player mode, otherwise MAME had problems when it switched back to 2 player.

I was originally going for 2 cabinets with identical monitors, but now that I switched to a pedestal I need to check that it still works with the TV and a monitor.  I don't think it will be a problem as long as they are the same resolution and refresh rates.

I haven't worked out the software side yet.  I think I'm just going to use big box and 2 instances of MAME, one prefering 2 player roms and one preferring 4 player.  Then do the rest by editing game list.

So...

System 1 --> HDMI Splitter

HDMI Splitter 1a --> System 1 Screen 1
HDMI Splitter 1b--> KVM Input 1 Screen 1

HDMI Splitter 2a --> System 1 Screen 1
HDMI Splitter 2b--> KVM input 1 Screen 2

System 2 --> KVM Input 2  (both screens)

KVM Output --> System 2 (both screens)

Is that right?   

Then USB inputs/outputs as needed. 

The only thing I think you'd need is to remap your System 2 control encoder to be players 3/4 on System 1.   Ultimarc Ipacs can do this via command line.   Not sure what you're using. 

That was pretty close to what I was thinking up, but never though to use the HDMI splitters.   Good idea!   Thanks for sharing.

[BlueGhost]

So...

System 1 --> HDMI Splitter

HDMI Splitter 1a --> System 1 Screen 1
HDMI Splitter 1b--> KVM Input 1 Screen 1

HDMI Splitter 2a --> System 1 Screen 1
HDMI Splitter 2b--> KVM input 1 Screen 2

System 2 --> KVM Input 2  (both screens)

KVM Output --> System 2 (both screens)

Is that right?   

Then USB inputs/outputs as needed. 

The only thing I think you'd need is to remap your System 2 control encoder to be players 3/4 on System 1.   Ultimarc Ipacs can do this via command line.   Not sure what you're using. 

That was pretty close to what I was thinking up, but never though to use the HDMI splitters.   Good idea!   Thanks for sharing.

That's the layout I used. 

I'm trying to use the built-in joystick encoders in the u360s in the 2nd cabinet.  So ipac2 in system 1 for p1 and p2, and u360s as p3 and p4 on system 1.

I also thought about using 2 ipac2 like you described.  I can always change to that if I don't like the u360s.

[Fursphere]

I just learned that you can do dual-monitor video mirroring natively in windows.  No hardware splitters required as long as you've got enough monitor connections. 

Screenshot is from my Windows 11 desktop w/ a GTX3060 video card using all four outputs (3x DisplayPort, 1x HDMI).  This should also work across multiple video cards, but I haven't tested that yet. 

If the secondary cabinet marquee screen isn't important to you, just about every modern video card has three outputs.  If the main screen on the secondary cabinet has at least two inputs, you don't even need a KVM for that.  You'd just need a cheap USB A/B switch.

[BlueGhost]

I tested using main display monitor mirrored in windows.  It caused issues when adding/removing the 2nd monitor, that's why I moved to the splitters.

Here's the splitters I ended up using:HDMI Splitter 1 in 2 Out