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Author Topic: Weird CRT Emudriver issues. (Diagonal Waves and off framerates)  (Read 612 times)

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RobocopGameboy

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Weird CRT Emudriver issues. (Diagonal Waves and off framerates)
« on: January 24, 2024, 10:45:06 pm »
For the last few months i've been working on a CRT Emudriver setup to basically run whatever i can and made fairly good progress and have a setup that technically works. Originally i used a Composite Transcoder i got off of ebay from wakabavideo and a 19 inch composite only RCA TV for the setup. The first issue i had was burning effect across the pixels i was able to record footage of along with a subtle flickering effect that i had a much harder attempt recording.

Eventually i got my hands on a component capable Trinitron and decided to pick up a Component Transcoder also just to see if the issue was just with the fact i was trying to use.

I was able to record footage of the original burning effect here.

While the component transcoder fixed the burning effect which it seems was dot crawl after all the issue wasn't totally fixed and on my trinitron the flicker now resembles a diagonal wave subtly moving across the screen.
I also decided to run 240p test suite to see if all of the CRT Effects were working properly and it seems the flicker transparency effect isn't working properly. This could be another symptom of the same issue as everything else. I've done extensive googling on the subject and only found answers here i believe briefly touching on power issues of some sort that i couldn't make sense of.

If this is the wrong place then i apologize but i've pretty much been taking shots in the dark with this stuff since i began doing it and am willing to take whatever chance i can get to find someone who knows how this stuff works.

Zebidee

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Re: Weird CRT Emudriver issues. (Diagonal Waves and off framerates)
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2024, 07:45:56 am »
You said you were using the wakabavideo unit for composite, but which component transcoder are you using?

EDIT: If using the wakaba component transcoder, please tell me which version? You'll probably have to unscrew a faceplace, remove the PCB and take a photo.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 08:20:43 am by Zebidee »
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RobocopGameboy

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Re: Weird CRT Emudriver issues. (Diagonal Waves and off framerates)
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2024, 05:26:58 pm »
You said you were using the wakabavideo unit for composite, but which component transcoder are you using?

EDIT: If using the wakaba component transcoder, please tell me which version? You'll probably have to unscrew a faceplace, remove the PCB and take a photo.

You would be right about both wakabavideo transcoders. I don't think i have the tools at my disposal at the moment to get them open but if it's any compensation i can share when i originally ordered both. I got the Composite transcoder on September 27th of last year while the Component Transcoder i ordered on December 21st.
If i'm able to get them open i'll probably edit this post to have images of them however.

EDIT: Things went better than i expected. https://imgur.com/a/3ZEldfd Here it is.
I've also been considering the idea that it could just be my modelines being out of wack but it doesn't make too much sense to me and my digging didn't give me any good answers. One of the CRT Emudriver versions i dug up had more modelines to try but they either didn't work or had the exact same issues.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2024, 11:18:41 pm by RobocopGameboy »

Zebidee

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Re: Weird CRT Emudriver issues. (Diagonal Waves and off framerates)
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2024, 01:17:26 am »
For the last few months i've been working on a CRT Emudriver setup to basically run whatever i can and made fairly good progress and have a setup that technically works. Originally i used a Composite Transcoder i got off of ebay from wakabavideo and a 19 inch composite only RCA TV for the setup. The first issue i had was burning effect across the pixels i was able to record footage of along with a subtle flickering effect that i had a much harder attempt recording.

Eventually i got my hands on a component capable Trinitron and decided to pick up a Component Transcoder also just to see if the issue was just with the fact i was trying to use.

I was able to record footage of the original burning effect here.

While the component transcoder fixed the burning effect which it seems was dot crawl after all the issue wasn't totally fixed and on my trinitron the flicker now resembles a diagonal wave subtly moving across the screen.
I also decided to run 240p test suite to see if all of the CRT Effects were working properly and it seems the flicker transparency effect isn't working properly. This could be another symptom of the same issue as everything else. I've done extensive googling on the subject and only found answers here i believe briefly touching on power issues of some sort that i couldn't make sense of.

If this is the wrong place then i apologize but i've pretty much been taking shots in the dark with this stuff since i began doing it and am willing to take whatever chance i can get to find someone who knows how this stuff works.


I have a reasonably good idea about the issues, and am glad you posted, because I wasn't sure how many other people had encountered them.

Component video signals (and transcoders) are very sensitive to power fluctuations and interference. I am intimately familiar with these issues as have spent the last few months redesigning GreenAntz transcoders to overcome and move past them, and make other improvements.

The dot-crawl is most likely a power supply or signal interference issue. I note that it seemed to go away with the Sony, but then you got the waves. Make sure there are no loose connections anywhere. Inspect the transcoder for any damage or cold solder joins.

The waves may indicate excessive ripple on the 5v power rail. That can mean a dodgy PSU on your computer. It can also be caused by ground loop interference from other devices on your local electrical network, like an audio amplifier or aircon or something. I might mean that your local power sockets aren't grounded properly, so try in a new location, new power source, new power board.

If you are using an audio amp, try unplugging it and seeing if the problem presists. If it doesn't, get an inexpensive ground loop isolator (I can suggest options if necessary).

As for the flicker, that may be an issue with the transcoder itself. Having said that, I've got several wakabavideo transcoders, and I've seen the issue in the older ones, but not in the rev 2.3 from 2020 (latest that I have). That was why I asked which version you have. I'd be surprised if Jam let it creep back in, he has good rep, but who knows.

There are several possible causes in the transcoder's power and signal amp lines. I've also seen the same issue it in the crap b*f*nx ones that are all over aliexpress atm. Doesn't even have a power regulator on it at all. They ripped off an early GreenAntz design from about 5 years ago, before we'd worked out the "flickeryness" (that is also what we called it at the time). It is literally a direct copy of proto-GreenAntz, including some components that later proved redundant. So serves them right that it is sub-standard. But that is slightly off-topic :)

A good test game for "flickeryness" is Time Pilot - because it is an 8-bit game with limited colour palette, the sky background colours feature solid blue, two greens and magenta at different levels. The attract mode cycles through three screens (the two greens and one magenta). The magenta screen is the best, because it pushes every YPbPr channel the hardest simultaneously. Anyway, these solid colour backgrounds, with clouds and planes moving around randomly, are very challenging for the transcoders. You may see "flickeryness" or gaps in colour, possibly even large shadows behind the clouds. Like your video, though to be honest I couldn't see much in the video (because of video timing/framerate issues), but I know what you mean.

It is easier to see flickeryness out of the corner of your eye - that is because peripheral vision is more sensitive to changes in brightness and movement. So put on Time Pilot and watch it out of the corners of your eyes. Does the sky look painted on, or flickery, or like a thin coat of watercolour?

The latest design GreenAntz gives sky backgrounds in Time Pilot that look like they are solidly painted on, and with three coats. No flickeryness and definitely no cloud shadows. I'm very happy, more news soon :D

Sorry for long-ish and slightly self-serving response, hope this helps.
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