Newbie: Building my first system looking for advice.

[Optics]

Hello everyone! I've known about mame for quite some time, and I've had a blast playing classic arcade games on my computer, if only for nostalgia. I recently decided to re-install Mame, and came across this site. I was shocked and delighted to come to the realization that I didn't have to settle for simply a keyboard and mouse, that people actually have been building their own machines and I could too! So my journey begins, and now that the introductions are over I have a few questions..

First off, I've already spent a lot of time working with software and finding the right frontend and so forth, so that's no issue for me.  However my goal has become slightly more ambitious then just creating a simple machine to play a couple of arcade games, I'm aiming to create a multi-purpose box that'll allow me to play multiple emulators - from arcade games to nintendo 64 and perhaps even a few play station 2 games.  My dilemma with this is the button setup - a lot of arcade games are simply two or three buttons, while console games are six to eight.

 My question here is really a matter of opinion - how would you guys from experiance recommend I tackle button set up? If I was just building this machine for myself I'd set up the buttons in a standard fashion and just memorize the controls/ignore empty buttons, but this is not the case - I'm setting up my machine for my family as well as any friends, and friends of family that pay a visit.  I'd like the console to be set up in a at least semi-professional manor, so that the button layout isn't confusing or overwhelming despite the fact that I'll probably have eight buttons per player.  So from personal experiance what would be the best way to set this up? Should I go with eight buttons? More? Less? Should I go with two buttons next to the joystick and then three above and three below? Or three buttons with others on the side/below? Or should I stack them all neatly in 2 by 2 rows? Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated!

The other concern I had as I was reading over this websites resources(which have been very helpful!) was a matter of joysticks. I am of course going to need an 8 way joystick for fighting games - but how will this affect gameplay where only 4 directions are required? Could I just set up controls for 4 way games to have all the diagonals go in their respected direction? (EG make it so that left and right up actually go up, hence removing the frustrated delay.) Or should I go with two joysticks per player?

Lastly, for my control setup instead of any heavy wiring, i've decided to buy this part: http://www.gamecabinetsinc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=IPAC2&Category_Code=E which would allow me to hook my buttons/joysticks/ect. into this device and then hook this device into a USB port on my computer. I was wondering if anyone had used it or something like it before, and what their experiance has been with it if so.

I'm new at this, so go easy on me - I apologize in advance if I'm asking what seems like basic questions, but I could really use some feedback before investing my time and money into this.  Thanks in advance!

Edit: Also, I was looking to equip my machine with lightguns/pedals, but I cannot seem to find a place to buy the pedals, if anyone could help point me in the right direction I'd be thankful.

[DaveMMR]

Second question first: Look into the Ultrastick 360 (http://www.ultimarc.com/ultrastik_info.html).   They offer you the ability to switch maps so 4-way games will play better than using an 8-way stick, plus the ability to apply other maps (analog, Q-Bert, etc.).   You can also buy an option wiring harness that connects up to 8 buttons to the joystick and connect it all via one USB cable.

Now back to buttons:  One thing to keep in mind is "less is more".  Don't overcrowd your panel with buttons.  Six is standard (7 for that combined Neo-Geo/Street Fighter layout - and that sometimes shares an input with one of the other six).   Avoid excessive admin buttons (I aim for zero - the iPac you linked to - also available at Ultimarc by the way - and the Ultrastick both allow for "shifting" to create virtual buttons).   By the way, the 6 or 7 does not include Start and Coin (or coin door switch).   Both are relatively important.   That's 8 inputs and is exactly what the Ultrastick 360's wiring harness with support.   

Which consoles are you looking to emulate?   For my tastes, anything later than SNES isn't as cabinet friendly as simple, quick-action, arcade-style games.  I know some people will cite some fighter on the PS2 or Dreamcast, but in general most games for later systems were more involved and do better in the living room.  So I make fine with six buttons.  If you really want later consoles, you may have to go to eight buttons (and you will probably need an iPac encoder).  Knowing what you want your cabinet to play ahead of time will save you effort and money.

As for "instructions" (i.e. what button to press):  There are programs (Cpviewer for example) that work in conjunction with mame files (controls.ini) and your frontend that display the mappings before a game starts.  I personally have lighted pushbuttons (Groovy Game Gear's Electric Ice with RGB LEDs and two LED-WIZ's) that light up depending on the specific game, but that adds a little expense and time (with set up) to the overall build. 

Good luck!

P.S. - I oversimplified greatly.  Do some research using the search for more expanded discussions regarding controls.
 

 

[Optics]

Thank you so much for the quick and thoughtful reply!

Which consoles are you looking to emulate?   For my tastes, anything later than SNES isn't as cabinet friendly as simple, quick-action, arcade-style games.  I know some people will cite some fighter on the PS2 or Dreamcast, but in general most games for later systems were more involved and do better in the living room.  So I make fine with six buttons.  If you really want later consoles, you may have to go to eight buttons (and you will probably need an iPac encoder).  Knowing what you want your cabinet to play ahead of time will save you effort and money.

I mentioned PS2 and Nintendo 64 not because my goal is to emulate a large chunk of modern games - but there are a few select games I do intend to emulate from these systems - mainly the Gauntlet games, as i've read with mame they are near impossible to run.  Aside from Gauntlet, I'd only take a select few perhaps super smash brothers or a few playstation fighting games.  Some of these games don't use more then 5 buttons, but I was worried that if I didn't include a standard set of 8 "mashable" buttons next to the joystick I wouldn't have enough controls.  I did intend on having a "Start" and "Coin/Select" button - I suppose I could use those as multipurpose buttons, but my goal is to keep them below the joystick, which I'm afraid might be a little clunky to play with, though I suppose I could give it some thought.

As for "instructions" (i.e. what button to press):  There are programs (Cpviewer for example) that work in conjunction with mame files (controls.ini) and your frontend that display the mappings before a game starts.  I personally have lighted pushbuttons (Groovy Game Gear's Electric Ice with RGB LEDs and two LED-WIZ's) that light up depending on the specific game, but that adds a little expense and time (with set up) to the overall build.

This is news to me! To be able to display the controls beforehand would be absolutely pehnomnal, espescailly for my younger brother and his friends, who come in and get right into playing without second thought.     As for the buttons that light up - do they light up to show you they are in use? By that I mean do they remain lit during the course of the game while the non-used do not?  Is the lighting up done through mame - and would it be possible at all to work with the Cpviewer software to display controls for non-mame emulated games? (Assuming I let Cpviewer know what the controls were of course.)

Thanks again for your help - I totally agree with the less is more philosophy which is why I was so concerned that I made this post in the first place.   I've been collecting a list of the games i'd like to include on my machine as my first step, before I even design it, so I know what I need - so far i've only been working with arcade games, which I of course will only need three or four buttons for.  My issue with other emulators such as playstation or N64 is that the emulators unlike mame do not let me set up controls per game, so I'm forced to set up a universal control scheme that loads each time the emulator does - meaning if one game uses "Z" and another uses "C-Down" if I don't have buttons for both one game will not be able to use it's button.  I'd like to be able to get away with 6 or 7 if I could, though.  If I can get the software you mentioned working with other emulators to highlight buttons that'd pretty much solve the 'overwhelming bit' - so i'll look into that and hopefully meet success.

Thanks for the help, you've given me some insight that has already begun to help me.

[DaveMMR]

mainly the Gauntlet games

Damn, those are fun.  Well you can do six buttons because I don't think Gauntlet utilizes all of them.  Same thing with Smash Bros.  Most emulators are highly configurable so you should be fine.  But six will cover up to the SNES (although you may have to shift a button for the "SELECT" key.  Actually, it will cover the Dreamcast too (though you lose "analog" capability on the shoulders - though that's not a problem on arcade fighters). 

This is news to me! To be able to display the controls beforehand would be absolutely pehnomnal, espescailly for my younger brother and his friends, who come in and get right into playing without second thought

It is cool but there's a little work beforehand.  But once it's up and running, you'll be able to watch people playing instead of answering questions. 

As for the buttons that light up - do they light up to show you they are in use? By that I mean do they remain lit during the course of the game while the non-used do not?

Using controls.ini and colors.ini, my panel lights up, and stays lit during the course of the game, only the buttons that are in use for the game in the original colors of the actual arcade game.  It's cool but it does add the expense and extra configuration.  But with great plugin softwar for Mala and GameEx, it's a heck of a lot easier too than it used to be!

Is the lighting up done through mame - and would it be possible at all to work with the Cpviewer software to display controls for non-mame emulated games?

I haven't tried it, but I'm almost sure there's an option to set up the CPviewer for other emulators.

[mike_bike_kite]

I'd try out a few button layout designs on paper first - most games fall into a few simple patterns - ie one joystick and a couple of fire buttons, but have a look at all your (and your kids) favourite games and see whether your chosen layout works on paper.

Next I'd build a quick and dirty control panel and just plug it into your PC to see whether you've made any obvious mistakes - ie forgotten to put in a coin button etc.

As mentioned above the I-Pacs have a great shift feature giving all buttons the ability to do different things in control mode. I'd also use the switchable 4-8 way joysticks.

Kids learn quicker than you do - mine (8 and 10) worked everything out how to play every game by themselves.

The LED lighting looks fantastic and it wasn't difficult to set up - problem was I couldn't light up the joysticks and that meant for many games only the fire button would light up. Considering the time/expense of adding this feature I ended up lighting up all the buttons all the time. Most people just go wow when they see it and none of my kids friends have needed any help in how to use any games.

I prefer minimum keys (http://www.bikesandkites.com/mame2.html) but every-one's different .

Mike

[Optics]

Thanks for the reply, building a temporary control scheme just for one player is a great idea and something I'm looking forward to doing in order to see how it all works out. Another quick question I have: Have any of you included an "Escape" button on your control panel? I was trying to figure out a way to enable the players to simply go back to the game selection screen and mapping a button to the Esc key seems the best logical choice - if anyone has any other ideas please let me know!

[JimmyU]

Thanks for the reply, building a temporary control scheme just for one player is a great idea and something I'm looking forward to doing in order to see how it all works out. Another quick question I have: Have any of you included an "Escape" button on your control panel? I was trying to figure out a way to enable the players to simply go back to the game selection screen and mapping a button to the Esc key seems the best logical choice - if anyone has any other ideas please let me know!

Very few people have dedicated ESC keys.  In MAME, you can press TAB -> Input (General) -> User Interface -> UI Cancel.  You can set this to what you want with multiple key presses such as Player 1 Up + Player 1 Start + Player 1 Button 1 + Player 1 Button 2.  Just make sure it's something you won't accidently press during gameplay.

[Optics]

Ah, interesting. I'm not sure I can do this with other emulators though - thanks for the bit of information anyway, should prove useful.

[unclet]

I believe ESC, Reset and Pause are worth while buttons to add in my opinion.   YOu can label them and people will not have to keep asking you what two keys represent them if you use the shift function of the encoder.

You might want to add come pinball buttons as well to play Visual Pinball and Future Pinball emulators.  There are some great tables out there.

Also, make sure you play all the emulators you want on your cabinet before deciding what buttons you want since you can get a better feel of how many buttons (along with each button's mapping) you will require to play the games nicely.   Basically, just play the games so you can determine which button mappings you are going to need for sure so you can make sure your control panel design layout can accomodate the buttons you will need properly.

[Hockeyboy]

Good info - I didn't realize that some of the FE programs lit up buttons and kept them lit. Exactly what I want to do when I get to build my machine.

[Optics]

I believe ESC, Reset and Pause are worth while buttons to add in my opinion.   YOu can label them and people will not have to keep asking you what two keys represent them if you use the shift function of the encoder.

I didn't even think to add a reset or pause button! It may subtract a bit from the 'true' arcade experiance but since I'm not going with a coin box and  the fact that only a handful of people I personally know will actually use the machine anyway it might be worthwhile to include the options for control. Instead of mounting them with all the other controls perhaps I can but them under or on some other panel away from the main control scheme, that way they don't get in the way.

Also, make sure you play all the emulators you want on your cabinet before deciding what buttons you want since you can get a better feel of how many buttons (along with each button's mapping) you will require to play the games nicely.   Basically, just play the games so you can determine which button mappings you are going to need for sure so you can make sure your control panel design layout can accomodate the buttons you will need properly.

Solid advice.  That's currently the stage I'm in, browsing through and obtaining the games I want to include, so I can see the minimum and maximum amounts of buttons used, and in what fashion.  Also as other users have suggested it is definitely something I'm going to do - to actually try the configuration of my buttons in gameplay instead of merely laying them out on paper - this way I can get everything just right.

This thread did get me thinking however, and aside from maybe super smash brothers and Gauntlet Dark Legcay(If I can get it working at all!) I think I'm simply going to stick to arcade through SNES, that way I can go with 6 or 7 buttons (hopefully 6) and keep things nice and orde

[Super-Becker]

Hey guys. I need to know how to emulate consoles in GroovyMAME (I already have it installed with CRT Emudriver and the consoles' Bios). I can't get to the screen where there is the "cartridge" option. Can someone please tell me step by step from the moment I open GroovyMAME? I would like to inform you that I already looked in other topics but couldn't find it. I will be immensely grateful. Thanks.