Looking for some help with Friction...

[purbeast]

First let me preface this with I do actually own the real Friction arcade game/hardware lol.  And even with that I have a problem - it only works on one of my arcade monitors.  But that is besides the point here...

I have found 3 different versions of Friction and they all have the same problem.  I thought maybe it was related to DemulShooter but it's not because last night I found one that didn't even have DS with it and was basically the raw game, and I have the same exact issue.  And this was one that someone said it works "out of the box" for them.

What happens is I double click on the Friction.exe file, and ... nothing happens.  I get a spinner, and depending which release I do this on, it spins longer than the others, but still, nothing happens.

Nothing shows in the task manager at all, when I try to run any of the 3 versions.  It never shows anything pop up and disappear, or anything like that.  It's just like nothing at all happens.

I am on Windows 10 and I've tried running it in compatibility mode as well and it either throws a run time error, or it does the same thing and just spins, depending which version I am running.

Does anyone have any idea what is going on?  Has anyone seen this before and know what the fix is?

[lilshawn]

i redid a friction machine with a new computer after it got damaged.

in my friction backup, i have:

the friction folder with the game

Nivida 368.81 videocard drivers

but also

"directx_jun2010_redist"
"dotNetFx40_full_x86_x64"


based on the files, i installed on winxp. to do so, i had to install directx and dot net to get it to work. you probably do with win10 as well, since the win10 baked in directx probably doesn't work with friction.

[purbeast]

i redid a friction machine with a new computer after it got damaged.

in my friction backup, i have:

the friction folder with the game

Nivida 368.81 videocard drivers

but also

"directx_jun2010_redist"
"dotNetFx40_full_x86_x64"


based on the files, i installed on winxp. to do so, i had to install directx and dot net to get it to work. you probably do with win10 as well, since the win10 baked in directx probably doesn't work with friction.

Was your behavior that nothing happened when you clicked the executable?  I don't get any kind of error about DX or anything like that.

[lilshawn]

i think initially it started out as it couldn't find DLL's and stuff like that. eventually tracked down the packs that had those files in it.

for instance, on my win10 machine right here, when it execute it right now it says it's wanting a file in the Direct3D included in DX9 to be installed.

I extracted the dx9 "directx_jun2010_redist" file... dumped them in a temp folder on the desktop... opened the folder and installed DXSETUP.

ran it again and it booted right up. apparently all the .nets are included with win10

[purbeast]

Okay I will give that a try later tonight if I have time.

I am positive that one of my versions has that exact dll in the Friction directory though and it still behaves this same way.

I wish it would spit out some error so at least I would know what to look for.  But not having ANYTHING and it just doing "nothing" is making it hard to figure out. 

I've even ran it from the command prompt and it doesn't give any more info.

[purbeast]

Okay I just tried that real quick and installed that same installation and same thing.

So I am actually noticing that I see Friction.exe in the task manager.  Maybe it was there the whole time I don't know, but it is in the "background process" section, not in the top area where you'd expect an application to be running from.

After like 20-30 seconds though, it goes away from the background processes section and is gone from task manager.

Ugh this is so frustrating lol.

[lilshawn]

can you alt+tab into the game... or switch to the friction task in the task manager and switch to it maybe?

there is a delay before it begins startup. I would guess it sits for about 10 to 15 seconds before actually "starting" and loading the game. probably to allow the system to load drivers and whatnot on startup. perhaps you are clicking "out" of the game to the desktop before it gets a chance to load and it's getting pushed to the background.

duno, just throwing out random things and seeing if anything sticks.

[purbeast]

can you alt+tab into the game... or switch to the friction task in the task manager and switch to it maybe?

there is a delay before it begins startup. I would guess it sits for about 10 to 15 seconds before actually "starting" and loading the game. probably to allow the system to load drivers and whatnot on startup. perhaps you are clicking "out" of the game to the desktop before it gets a chance to load and it's getting pushed to the background.

duno, just throwing out random things and seeing if anything sticks.

Yeah there is nothing to alt+tab into, I have checked.

And I've definitely clicked and just left it there to see what happens and unfortunately, nothing.

[lilshawn]

perhaps you are missing a file or move one somewhere accidentally and it's freaking out.

if you can post a screenshot of your "Friction" folder and "base" folder, maybe I'll see something amiss.

[BadMouth]

Did you install the directx 9 runtimes lilshawn mentioned?  Newer versions of directx don't include the older runtimes.  That would make the game crap out when it tries to render graphics.

Some emulators like Model 2 also use the directx 9 runtimes.

[lilshawn]

ive brought a copy of friction home and just tested this on another win10 machine that has never seen friction before. after installing directx9, it runs fine.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=8109

there used to be a tool you could get from microsoft that would 100% strip out directx installs to do a fresh install again. ive had to use it in the past where just doing a regular though the control panel uninstall, and running the installer again would not fix it. after running the program, and installing it again, it was much happier. i don't recall what it was called, but it wasn't a 3rd party program... it was something directly from microsoft.

[purbeast]

Yes I installed DX9 like originally suggested and it didn't make any difference.

I also have the model 2 emulator running fine on here so I know that works.

Here is a pic of the 3 different versions I have.  Some run longer as background processes than others.

[argonlefou]

Can you get a Md5 checksum of the 3 VSIOBOARD.dll ?

[purbeast]

Can you get a Md5 checksum of the 3 VSIOBOARD.dll ?

All 3 of them are the same - 03c872a3d141ee186412dfc0636510bc.

I pulled one of them into the top left directory, it wasn't packaged in there when I grabbed it.

[argonlefou]

Those are not the original DLL, but the 3rd  (and last) version of the patched DLL to run on...well...not the original hardware

Those DLL are reading settings from the VSIOBOARD.ini file and are emulating IO board

The original is not doing that, and it's md5 checksum is
25a0495caecaf9bee66b09f13da5e8fa


If it can be of any help...

[lilshawn]

all my files are original unmodified files, and it seems to work just fine on any random computer.

my file md5 is also 25a0495caecaf9bee66b09f13da5e8fa

let's get back to "stock" and see if it works from there.

obs, rename the file.

[purbeast]

I mean mine are also "unmodified" in the sense that I just got them from some the bundles I found online.

Can one of you attach the DLL here and I can give that a try? 

[lilshawn]

i posted it as an attachment on my last post there. you just have to rename it. (it's just to get around the file filter) if you want to post your modified file and i can try it here and see if that the issue as well.

[purbeast]

Okay awesome that DLL worked for me, in 2 of the versions I tried it on.  I didn't try the 3rd but that looks to be the problem.

Now my question is, does anyone know how to get this game to work in 320x240 resolution?

I know the actual real game works at that resolution, because I have the real arcade hardware and it works on my CGA monitor.  Changing the resolution is a jumper on the IO board.

But does anyone know how to change it for this game? 

It looks like the lowest it runs at for me is 640x480, which basically shows a double screen on a CGA monitor.  I tried changing the resolution down in the /base/win.cfg file to 320x240 but that didn't do anything.  I also used the Friction resolution changer thing and set to 320x240 and that also did not work.

So anyone have any ideas?  I'm so close!

[lilshawn]

I don't recall if it supported 15k or not. Ours was just  VGA cause that's what we had.

You might have to run it through a scaler if that's the case.

[purbeast]

I don't recall if it supported 15k or not. Ours was just  VGA cause that's what we had.

You might have to run it through a scaler if that's the case.

I am assuming you mean the arcade rip?

I know the real game supports it because as mentioned, I have it and played it on both of my monitors.  Here's a video of it on a CGA monitor.



When you say a scaler, what is that exactly?  Like something I'd run prior to the game running?

EDIT:

I stand corrected about the jumper setting the res - it's dip switches on the IO board.  Here's the manual that explains it.

https://www.betson.com/wp-content/uploads/wpallimport/files/service-manuals/friction-kit-coast-to-coast-conversion-kits-service-manual.pdf

[lilshawn]

yeah yeah, sorry I should have clarified. but yes, the IO board takes care of all that.

what I mean by "scaler"... is there is usually a piece of equipment on the video signal between your device and the monitor that basically rescales the video to ... downscale (say from VGA to CGA) or to upscale (say from VGA to HD) and anywhere in between. to a level supported by the monitor.

so you'd basically configure the scaler that your monitor is CGA and the video is changed before it gets to the monitor appropriately.

in friction's case it's all done through software. since the IO board doesn't appear to have a separate video processor... so in friction's case, the IO basically tells the software at bootup "i need this particular resolution" and the computer changes to it.

[purbeast]

yeah yeah, sorry I should have clarified. but yes, the IO board takes care of all that.

what I mean by "scaler"... is there is usually a piece of equipment on the video signal between your device and the monitor that basically rescales the video to ... downscale (say from VGA to CGA) or to upscale (say from VGA to HD) and anywhere in between. to a level supported by the monitor.

so you'd basically configure the scaler that your monitor is CGA and the video is changed before it gets to the monitor appropriately.

in friction's case it's all done through software. since the IO board doesn't appear to have a separate video processor... so in friction's case, the IO basically tells the software at bootup "i need this particular resolution" and the computer changes to it.

Okay well I seem to be making progress.

I tried dragging/dropping that DLL into the one version I have that I hadn't tried yet, and I did that, and then it booted up in the right resolution.  So I dunno lol.

However, it isn't tracking at all.  If I run it without DS running, I don't get a screen flash.  But when I ran it with DS, I did get a screen flash, however it didn't actually do anything.  As you can see from the video below, the cursors are right on the middle of the screen.  But nothing moves/shoots with the light gun.  And using the mouse works fine but it doesn't move those cursors, it's another really tiny one that you see move around.



EDIT:

And I did go into gun calibration in game and it's not recognizing the trigger pull.

I am running the DS.exe command with "-target=windows -rom=friction" as well.

[argonlefou]

If you went back to the "stock" dll, then DS won't work.
You will need one of the 3 version of the modified dll

You can get a DS debug file ( https://github.com/argonlefou/DemulShooter/wiki/Debugging#step-3 ) and share it here. This should be written in it

[purbeast]

If you went back to the "stock" dll, then DS won't work.
You will need one of the 3 version of the modified dll

You can get a DS debug file ( https://github.com/argonlefou/DemulShooter/wiki/Debugging#step-3 ) and share it here. This should be written in it

Do you have a link to the 3 versions of it?

All of the releases I have are the same one (as mentioned above with the hash) and that one doesn't work for me.  But the stock one does work for me.

I noticed too on the one version that renders in the correct resolution for me, that it has the 2 crosshairs on it.  The other versions don't have the crosshairs on the screen, even though it's not rendering correctly.  I can still see double images, and neither have those crosshairs like the video above in 320x240.  That is why I thought DS was working since it showed the blue and red crosshairs.

[argonlefou]

Do you have a link to the 3 versions of it?

All of the releases I have are the same one (as mentioned above with the hash) and that one doesn't work for me.  But the stock one does work for me.

I noticed too on the one version that renders in the correct resolution for me, that it has the 2 crosshairs on it.  The other versions don't have the crosshairs on the screen, even though it's not rendering correctly.  I can still see double images, and neither have those crosshairs like the video above in 320x240.  That is why I thought DS was working since it showed the blue and red crosshairs.

V1 or V2 are useless, they are the same as V3 (md5=03C872A3D141EE186412DFC0636510BC) but with bugs

Just to make it clear if I can :
 - Stock dll (md5=25A0495CAECAF9BEE66B09F13DA5E8FA) is using some external IO/Board to get guns and buttons input. I remember some keyboard keys working (O for menu, arrows to navigate in the menu, ENTER to validate, C for Credits) but I don't remember any mouse working with it

- V1/V2/V3 dll are custom made to be a substitution of the original one, replacing hardware call (via COM port or USB or anything) by software emulation for buttons and guns. That's why they need the VSIOBOARD.INI to read custom keys/option configuration

Those custom made DLL may lack some of the original IO/Board implementation, as it looks like the Resolution switch is on the IO board on the real hardware.
And those blue and red crosshair are added by the DLL, which is using a Reshade mod at the same time to draw other the D3D rendering (and may also cause the game to not render as you like on your screen ?)

As for DS, it will only work with V1/V2/V3 custom dll because original one, well...is not meant to be used on anything else than the real cabinet with original guns and buttons

[purbeast]

Do you have a link to the 3 versions of it?

All of the releases I have are the same one (as mentioned above with the hash) and that one doesn't work for me.  But the stock one does work for me.

I noticed too on the one version that renders in the correct resolution for me, that it has the 2 crosshairs on it.  The other versions don't have the crosshairs on the screen, even though it's not rendering correctly.  I can still see double images, and neither have those crosshairs like the video above in 320x240.  That is why I thought DS was working since it showed the blue and red crosshairs.

V1 or V2 are useless, they are the same as V3 (md5=03C872A3D141EE186412DFC0636510BC) but with bugs

Just to make it clear if I can :
 - Stock dll (md5=25A0495CAECAF9BEE66B09F13DA5E8FA) is using some external IO/Board to get guns and buttons input. I remember some keyboard keys working (O for menu, arrows to navigate in the menu, ENTER to validate, C for Credits) but I don't remember any mouse working with it

- V1/V2/V3 dll are custom made to be a substitution of the original one, replacing hardware call (via COM port or USB or anything) by software emulation for buttons and guns. That's why they need the VSIOBOARD.INI to read custom keys/option configuration

Those custom made DLL may lack some of the original IO/Board implementation, as it looks like the Resolution switch is on the IO board on the real hardware.
And those blue and red crosshair are added by the DLL, which is using a Reshade mod at the same time to draw other the D3D rendering (and may also cause the game to not render as you like on your screen ?)

As for DS, it will only work with V1/V2/V3 custom dll because original one, well...is not meant to be used on anything else than the real cabinet with original guns and buttons

Okay then the one build I have, rendering in the video above, must be some weird mixture or something.  It is using the stock DLL but I can definitely move the mouse and play the game with the mouse, but it doesn't move any of the blue or red cursor.  There is like a really tiny dot that moves and shows you where the cursor is.

There are also some keyboard inputs that work because that is how I was able to go into the gun calibration menu and add credits and stuff. 

[argonlefou]

Okay then the one build I have, rendering in the video above, must be some weird mixture or something.  It is using the stock DLL but I can definitely move the mouse and play the game with the mouse, but it doesn't move any of the blue or red cursor.  There is like a really tiny dot that moves and shows you where the cursor is.

Blue and red cursors are created by the ReShade shader.
If the package you got had the V3 custom dll, then you must have Reshade files also (reshade-shaders folder, ReShade.ini and d3d9.dll. Renaming or removing the d3d9.dll file will prevent ReShade shader from loading, thus removing crosshairs.
That's why those crosshairs are not controlled by the game's code

As for small dots and mouse, it may be that debug mouse was activated somewhere in the config files or in the game. It was not existing when the game surfaced few years ago...

But still, DS won't work with the stock dll


I had a quick look at the stock dll functionalities, and the game call it to define Vsync, Hsync and a "video mode" (look like choice is 640*480, 512*384 or 640*240(!!??))
On the original hardware, those values are set by switches on the electronic board
On the cutom dll, video mode is fixed to the first one (640*480)