Mini Arcade Stick

[eobet]

I'm trying to put together the stick of my dreams, and renders are easy:



But actual miniaturization is proving to be quite difficult:



First I wanted Sanwa SDM-18 buttons for the side of the stick, but they don't come in black? And the only smaller buttons I found was a 16mm button with LEDs from Sparkfun, but they're way too deep and crashes into the stick. Does anyone know of any other small button I could use?

Second, I really want the footprint of this stick to be as small as possible (handheld Suncom Tac-2 size), and that means I probably have to make my own mounting plate or cut down the Sanwa S-plate. I've seen plates on this forum, but I haven't looked very deep into availability and sizes yet...

Third, a Brook board won't fit in this. It has to be an Arduino Pro Micro, which works for me since I want to use it for the MiSTerFPGA system and there's a great solution out there. Unfortunately, the person who makes ready made kits (for a beginner like me) hasn't been seen online for over a year. I figure I still have several months worth of designing to do (a few evenings each week), so fingers crossed the guy is ok and surfaces again in the near future.

The base itself will be CNC machined from solid oak, but it will require machining on both the inside and outside for both the top and bottom which is expensive. There are a few local companies to choose from where I am (Sweden), so if this works well I'm contemplating ordering a piece of sawn walnut lumber and making some fancier variants (but the smallest piece I can order is 1200 euro minimum last time I checked so this project will have to be very successful for that to ever happen). 😅

EDIT: Ok, turns out I can't figure out how to insert attached images into the actual post itself... oh, well...

[PL1]

I wanted Sanwa SDM-18 buttons for the side of the stick, but they don't come in black?

They do come in black, or at least they did when I ordered some from Paradise Arcade Shop several years ago.
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/collections/sanwa-2/products/sanwa-sdm-18-snap-in-button-black

If Sanwa no longer makes the black ones, you might try ordering white ones and use Rit dye on the plunger like jdbailey1206 did for his Fix It Felix build.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,135095.msg1422168.html#msg1422168

And the only smaller buttons I found was a 16mm button with LEDs from Sparkfun, but they're way too deep and crashes into the stick. Does anyone know of any other small button I could use?

How about Seimitsu DS-412 or Sanwa SDM-20?
- Looks like you'd need to order white and dye them.

These are very small and about the same depth below the panel as an SDM-18.
https://www.amazon.com/DaierTek-Momentary-Waterproof-Pushbutton-Automotive/dp/B08R9P3RKM/

Another option is square-top tactile buttons on a PCB or perfboard with caps like these.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/4228
https://www.amazon.com/WOWOONE-12x12x7-3-Tactile-Momentary-Assortment/dp/B08JLWTQ3C/
https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Momentary-Tactile-Button-12x12x12mm/dp/B008DGAEEA/

Third, a Brook board won't fit in this. It has to be an Arduino Pro Micro, which works for me since I want to use it for the MiSTerFPGA system and there's a great solution out there. Unfortunately, the person who makes ready made kits (for a beginner like me) hasn't been seen online for over a year. I figure I still have several months worth of designing to do (a few evenings each week), so fingers crossed the guy is ok and surfaces again in the near future.

There are a number of Arduino Pro Micro encoder sketches/firmwares to choose from.

As long as you can load a sketch/firmware and do basic soldering, you can roll-your-own fairly easily.   


Scott

[Xiaou2]

With the Suncom, you kind of had a half grip on the thing, between the pad of your thumb and your fingers at the rear,
with you still being able to use your thumb to hit that Single button.

 But with this thing?    There is no way to hold it in your hands.

 If you place this on a table, with its curved and light weight base... any stick movement will cause the thing to Roll over.

 Basically, this thing may look cool in renders, but its not going to be practical in actual Use.

 If you do not believe me... do a mock up with a block of wood, with a wooden dowel in the center of a hole drilled into it.
Allow the hole be big enough to simulate the joysticks travel.   Then move the dowel up and down quickly, and with good
force... and see how these forces yank and roll the entire rounded block of wood.

 Remember, you cant use your button hands fingers, to hold the assembly down... else you would accidentally press
one or more of the buttons.

[Xiaou2]

Part 2:

 Now, you Could potentially create a version that sort of works... if you used Mini-Buttons, found on
gamepads... and extended the button side.. so that you could get a grip on it.   That said... you would
then basically just have a gamepay, with a full size joystick.

 Even then, the higher stick, and different hand positions... could cause discomfort really quickly..
because your stick is going to create a strong leveraged force against your button-side grip.

 If you cut the shaft and made a micro sized balltop... it could help to reduce that leverage stress...
but it still might not pan out very well.

 All in all, you are much better off making a squared stick, that is big enough, and heavy enough, to
remain stable on a desk.  Otherwise, just use a gamepad.

[javeryh]

I had the same thought as Xiaou2.  THe renders look incredible but I worry about the playability.  Maybe add suction cups to the bottom or at least a heavy rubber pad to stop it from sliding around?

[Mike A]

It just has to be bigger.

There is no way around it.

[eobet]

They do come in black, or at least they did when I ordered some from Paradise Arcade Shop several years ago.

That link is seems temporarily unavailable (due to order overload after Evo apparently)? 

However, it made me go on another round of searches, and literally the only place I found was this:

https://www.tops-game.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=2654

But thanks for the other tips, I looked at what's available to me "locally" and this might be a candidate even though it's no-name Chinese crap sold through a loathesome company:

https://www.amazon.se/Gebildet-Vattent%C3%A4t-Tryckknapp-Momentan-Rostfritt/dp/B0811QKG1R/ref=sr_1_30?crid=1PT9O1XTNK5N7&keywords=Waterproof+Push+Button+Momentary&qid=1661368908&sprefix=waterproof+push+button+momentary%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-30

As for the other general comments regarding size, you have to understand that I'm doing this precisely because I don't have the space for a regular sized stick (heck, I don't even give it space for 6/8 buttons). This will probably mostly be used in my lap, very casually. If I'm going to use it on a table, there's any number of 3M adhesive rubber feet I could put on it. However, it will most likely be stored away 90% of the time so size and comfort while carrying it is super important to me. To get a permanent spot on my desk it would have to be gamepad sized, and I can't figure out how to do that with these classic components (the "large" buttons are already the smaller OBSF-24 model). Anyway, that's the main motivation behind the size.

Having said that, I tested one that's 2cm larger in every direction... and I can't leave it in wood then (the proportions felt off) but I must say, the idea is growing on me. 😅

One advantage is that I wouldn't have to create a custom mounting plate, but then again, I'd have to make the sheet metal top cut out.

I think I'm going to have to make a few size prototypes once all components arrive...

[Xiaou2]

No way that you can stabilize that thing on your lap.

 However, a possible solution, is to affix an adjustable strap to the bottom of the unit.

 Then tighten the strapping to your leg,  to hold it in place.   It still wont be 100% stable, but it will at least be
possible to use... IF you can manage to tighten the strap good enough.

 Maybe add some rubber to the strap, to create even more friction, to help prevent it from sliding.

 You might lose circulation in your leg... but I cant see any other way, to have something that small, being usable.


 While I appreciate the fact that not everyone has a lot of additional space.. I dont understand how an additional
few inches can be a problem.  I mean, you could make mounts for it under your desktop surface (upside down)
for example.   Or hang it from the wall or ceiling?

 There is another type of handheld joystick.. the  "Epyx 500 XJ".   I used to have it for my Commodore 64, and
it also worked with the Sega Master System.  It actually uses a mini microswitch joystick.  The buttons are on
the side.. and they were micros as well.



 That stick only had two buttons, and IMO, is wasnt as easy to fire the buttons as a gamepad.  But the sticks
accurate directions, made it possible for me to do a nearly impossible jump in  Maze Hunter 3D  for the
Sega Master System.

 One might be able to modify that design, to have 4 smaller buttons, that are also easier to press.

 Another spin on that type of controller, might be a vertical gun grip bottom, with 4 buttons in the
finger grip positions.  The hard part might be in keeping from accidentally pressing the buttons,
while just gripping it.

[PL1]

Another spin on that type of controller, might be a vertical gun grip bottom, with 4 buttons in the
finger grip positions.

Sounds like the ColecoVision Super Action Controller.




Scott

[eobet]

Work continues on the slightly larger model. But space is still tight, so I'm still leaning towards making a custom mounting plate...

I also noticed that all freely available 3D CAD models of the JLF were really quite inaccurate, so I took a few evenings and the weekend to make my own:

https://grabcad.com/library/sanwa-jlf-arcade-stick-1

I'm also considering switching from Sanwa OSBN-24 buttons to Crown 24mm buttons because they're more silent? (Yes, minimizing both size and sound is important to me.)

[Mike A]

It is still way too small.

[emphatic]

May I suggest you add some loops on the outside of the stick where you can add an elastic band that you can run around your knee so this very small stick sits still on your lap while you play. I think it could work really well.

[Xiaou2]

If you want 100% silent play,  you need the original Leaf-switch designs.  Micros are generally designed to create a
profound click activation... and the rest of the sound comes from bottoming-out controls.

 For example.. when you press a microswitch based button down.. even if there is NO microswitch mounted to it..
there will be a sound that is created from the Plunger, hitting the Bottom of the button assembly.

 With Wico Leaf buttons.. you can feather the button.. keeping it from bottoming out.. thus preventing that impact
noise.


 But again... your main issue is still, a lack of understanding of physics.   Try putting a physical mock up of that
size, into your lap... and see how well you can hold it in place.   Its not going to happen.

 The reference stick worked, based on hand cupping, and the use of a single button at one time... and even then
those sticks were uncomfortable, and an awful experience.

[eobet]

May I suggest you add some loops on the outside of the stick where you can add an elastic band that you can run around your knee so this very small stick sits still on your lap while you play. I think it could work really well.

Haha, den var väldigt kul!

But seriously. I measured. My thing will be almost the exact same size as the Hori Mini, only thicker (and with a more comfy rounded bottom). Yes, the ergonomics might be crappy if you're a serious player or play for hours on end, but I literally play for short stints every few weeks. This thing will be in a closet most of the time, and when it's out, my desk is small and our coffee table by the TV is small. That's why I want it small. Also, everyone builds huge controllers already. This is something different.

Anyway, here's the latest evolution of the mock-up. Now you can all complain about the raised area around the stick too. 

[javeryh]

Looks good to me.  I like these projects to be 51% functional and 49% awesome to look at.

[eobet]

Well, some parts arrived, and I made a to scale mock-up. Size is perfect, quite comfortable with the palms resting on the (soon to be rounded) edges! 

Couldn't find any local companies who wanted to produce prototype parts for me, so I'm skipping the custom metal mounting plate and I'm having the wood milled at my place of work instead (something I wanted to avoid).

Skipping the custom plate means there will be less room where I want it so I'll probably have to use a 90 degree angled USB-C cable unfortunately. Still sourcing some components like distances (so boring and consumes to much time).

Fingers crossed it looks like I'll get a really neat PCB in there, though...

Oh, and turns out, all CAD models of the Sanwa JLF out there were inaccurate, so I made my own and shared it:

https://grabcad.com/library/sanwa-jlf-arcade-stick-1