Question about what is needed for joysticks and buttons

[irishpump]

I'm working on a 4 player cabinet (4 kids and 1 wife). It's my first time building. So far, so good, but I'm getting closer to the part that I found intimidating. Joysticks and buttons. Right now, I'm trying to choose between 4 different companies (Happ is what I've experienced the most). That part, I'm always open to opinions on, but what IS intimidating is how this all goes together. I have already pre-drilled the holes on the control panel. This includes space for 4 players (6 buttons for 2 players, and 4 buttons for 2 players), 1 ultimarc trakball, and 1 ultimarc spinner. Other than the buttons and joysticks, what else do I need to get? From what it sounds like and looks like, it needs to go into some kind of controller. I saw ipac2 is used a lot. Is that all I need to plug everything in for 4 players? Do I need more than one of those or something different?

So for example, if I'm on focusattack and I buy all the buttons I need and joysticks I want, what else to I need to buy to hook it all up? Does what I need depend on the company? For example, if I buy all suzo-happ, do I need something specific? Or if I go with Sanwa do I need something different?

Thank you for any and all help.

[PL1]

The FAQ is your friend.   

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ


Scott

[vertexguy]

Agreed with Scott.  FAQ is a great start.  Also since the search is broken here you can use Google to search for 4 player cabinets on the site with this format in the search bar.

arcadecontrols.com: 4 player

There are tons of great threads with lots of detail and good advice.  The community is great to for chiming in with help when needed.  You have a similar reason to me for chasing a 4 player.  I would really do your homework to make sure its what you want and that it will play well for ALL players. When you're ready start a build thread.

[irishpump]

Thank you guys very much for responding. After doing both looking at the guide and doing a search, it sounds like I need to get an Ipac4. Daisy chaining wire (ground I believe) for power on the sticks and buttons and then an individual hookup directly onto the ipac4 for each corresponding button, for each player (keeping the order identical for the buttons for each player). Then, a USB connection from the Ipac4 directly to the computer (trakball and spinner are already USB, so no additional hookups).

Sorry, my explanation is cloudy, but that's because I am (lol)

So essentially, from what I understand, is I need sticks, buttons, an Ipac4, and wire...lots and lots of wire.

Is there a go-to, or recommended company/brand that is more reliable for the wire hookups?

Thank you guys again very much

[vertexguy]

You need more than lots of wire.  You'll need dupont pins and connector jacks, crimping tools, quick disconnects of the right size,, and more.  You can buy wiring harnesses from most of the major arcade control vendors but they tend to be a bit short for reaching outer players on a 4 player control panel from what I recall.  Making your own isn't hard, but it does take time and tools.  You also need to consider how you will mount everything.  Layout is everything for a good experience.

[irishpump]

I build tools for a living out of poly and pvc (basically giant shed looking structures, with sub assemblies, etc.). I love the heck out of my job. Measurements, and welding. That, coupled with 80's music all day long. For me, it can't be beat. I think the only thing frustrating about my job is how some of my crew treat the new people that come in. See, we know the tricks, right? We know, because of experience over time. Like anything else. That being said, a few guys on my crew tend to let someone know something is wrong, but never tell them what they need to be doing or how they need to be doing it. What they need, etc. It's almost this snarky, kind of remark too. We're the go to guys, and that knowledge shouldn't be kept away or kept so vague. I stand out, because I choose to explain to the new guys how to do something or what something means. It's because I remember what it felt like. What is the purpose of the crew to the new guys?

The guide, for me, missed the mark of what I was hoping I would understand about the wiring. I still went through what I could. I searched with the recommended terms, and I did find a couple things of interest to my question, which actually led me to a gameroomsolutions, which so far, was an outstanding wealth of information for what I was after. It isn't a paint by number of course, but there was enough there that I understand the general idea, or at least the bulk of it. As for here, I've asked 2 questions on this forum. It's kept so incredibly vague, or I'm deterred away from making something that fits my family's needs, or just go elsewhere to essentially dig for one section that I totally admit I find intimidating. Much like the new guy, they come to the experts for information because you're trusted. You're the big boys. I'm the new guy.

Where I work, we have a hard time holding onto new guys.

[PL1]

There's often a bit of a "getting to know you" phase where the people who help you will ask a few questions to ensure that you understand what you want so they can understand what you want and can give you useful advice that will be tailored to your desired application.

When I read the first post in this thread, I saw vague questions about encoders, wiring, and what you need to "hook it all up".

I steered you to the FAQ figuring that it could answer some of your questions or at least help you provide more relevant info (like in your second post in this thread) and ask questions that are a bit more specific to help us help you. [/Jerry Maguire]   

There are a number of companies that sell pre-fab daisy-chain wiring for the ground.
- This is a great time and effort saver, well worth the expense IMHO.
- Some even buy a cheap JAMMA harness (or two) and use the daisy chain and input wires with pre-crimped QDs so they don't have to buy the tools or do any crimps.

The IPac4 sounds like a great encoder choice now that we know your trackball and spinner came with USB encoders.
- There are some default settings you'll probably want to change since there are some overlapping defaults. (yellow)




Scott

[thomashenry]

You need more than lots of wire.  You'll need dupont pins and connector jacks, crimping tools, quick disconnects of the right size,, and more.  You can buy wiring harnesses from most of the major arcade control vendors but they tend to be a bit short for reaching outer players on a 4 player control panel from what I recall.  Making your own isn't hard, but it does take time and tools.  You also need to consider how you will mount everything.  Layout is everything for a good experience.

You don't need the dupoint pins and crimping tools  - you can do it all just with wire, an iPac4 and a soldering iron if you like. I find soldering quicker and easier than crimping most of the time. The iPac 4 just has screw terminals so nothing needed there.

[javeryh]

There's often a bit of a "getting to know you" phase where the people who help you will ask a few questions to ensure that you understand what you want so they can understand what you want and can give you useful advice that will be tailored to your desired application.

This is an excellent point.  Most new members pop on and just want to know how to build a giant all in one machine ASAP so it's hard to provide advice when they are starting from... not really a great base idea.  I don't know how else to put it.  People here want to help - believe me, we could use new members but each project is unique so it is hard to give advice unless you drill down on exactly what you are trying to do.

The iPac4 should be all you need to hook up your buttons and joysticks.  Each connection is just a switch and via software you can tell it how to behave.  The iPac is recognized as a keyboard and each connection is basically just a key press.  The default settings are good enough for most people (wire P1 up switch to P1 up connection on the iPac, etc.).

Pictures really help too - if you have some time you should start a project thread.  People will be more than happy to jump in and answer questions and help you to your goal.  Welcome.

[Osirus23]

My first cab used an iPac 2 and plain old 20 ga wire and crimp connectors from an auto parts store. No soldering involved either. There are certainly "fancier" ways of doing it but no one is ever going to see the inside of your CP anyway.

[javeryh]

My first cab used an iPac 2 and plain old 20 ga wire and crimp connectors from an auto parts store. No soldering involved either. There are certainly "fancier" ways of doing it but no one is ever going to see the inside of your CP anyway.

My first cabinet didn't even use the crimp connectors - I just stripped some wire and threaded it through the hole at the end of the microswitch and twisted it.  LOL.  It worked but not ideal for sure...

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah and a lot of operators used to solder directly to the tabs to ensure they didn't have to drive two hours one way to re-seat a crimp connector that had worked it's way loose.  I prefer crimp ons but I also fiddle with layouts constantly. 

[irishpump]

Thank you guys very much! I've gone with Lorenzo Euro sticks and long stem trans buttons after reading more information for what I'm after. I'm doing 6 buttons for 2 players, and 4 buttons for 2 players (also 1-4 player buttons and coin buttons - So 28 buttons total. I did purchase the ipac4. As for harnesses and these prefab connections you mention, is there a specific company that's best? I'm looking at both focusattack and ParadiseArcade. Is the prefab harnesses you're talking about these: https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/wiring-power/wires/daisy-chains/404_30-connection-black-daisy-chain-110

If not, what is the exact wires/connectors I would need? Prefab would definitely be better and definitely easier.

Thank you guys again

[javeryh]

The prefab harness will work but not perfectly unless it is specifically for 28 buttons to match your set up.  Honestly, if I were you I would do all of the wiring yourself.  This way if something breaks in the future you will understand how to fix it.  Trust me, it is so easy once you get going - I was super intimidated by it because I had never wired anything in my life before my first CP but it was a breeze.

If I'm understanding correctly, the long stem buttons have microswitches on the end.  These typically accept 0.250 crimp connectors - you want to buy the insulated kind:



Then buy some 18 gauge (16 or 20 will also work) stranded core wire.  It's just standard wire but you want to make sure you don't get solid sore... that will still work but if you bend it back and forth a million times it could break and stranded core wire won't.  Then you want to buy a crimper:



You just cut off the tip of the wire, slide it into the disconnect and then crimp (squeeze) the base so that the wire won't come out.  Then you can slide the disconnect onto the switch to make the connection.  The other end of the wire gets stripped and screwed down directly to the iPac4 in the appropriate spot.  You do this for each button and then you also have to "daisy-chain" the ground wires.  Same process except instead of going back to the iPac each time you go directly to the ground connection on the adjacent button and once you finish going to each one then the last one goes back to the iPac4 ground terminal.

By doing it yourself you will also get to control the lengths of wire better and with some zipties you can make it look fairly nice instead of a rat's nest of wires.

[irishpump]

Aha! Here is what I got as an example of all the buttons: https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/buttons/il-industrias-lorenzo/il-psl-l-series/273_il-psl-l-concave-button-translucent-green#/pushbuttons-green/choose_a_microswitch-75_gram_cherry_microswitch (Different colors and what not, but all the same type/brand). As for the microswitch, I got 75 Gram Cherry Microswitch for every button based off of what I was reading for these specific buttons. Does it matter what button I choose as the ground or joystick?

Thank you again for all your help.

[PL1]

Is the prefab harnesses you're talking about these: https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/wiring-power/wires/daisy-chains/404_30-connection-black-daisy-chain-110

If not, what is the exact wires/connectors I would need? Prefab would definitely be better and definitely easier.

The 0.110" daisy-chain you linked to would usually be for GGG Micro-Leaf switches or Ultimarc Goldleaf, Sanwa, or Seimitsu buttons.

I've gone with Lorenzo Euro sticks and long stem trans buttons

IIRC the IL sticks and transparent buttons usually come with microswitches with 0.187" tabs, but some come with 0.250" tabs.
- Check the stick and button product page listings to confirm.
- Keep in mind that 0.250" female QDs can work with 0.187" male tabs, but not the other way around.

0.187" daisy chains -
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/wiring-power/wires/daisy-chains/405_30-connection-black-daisy-chain-187
or
https://focusattack.com/30-connection-22-awg-187-ground-daisy-chain-wire/

0.187" input wires -
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/wiring-power/wires/pre-crimped-187-quick-disconnect-wires/402_16-wire-rainbow-packtm-with-187-quick-connector
or
https://focusattack.com/16pc-22-awg-wire-with-187-quick-disconnect/

0.250" daisy chains -
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/wiring-power/wires/daisy-chains/406_30-connection-black-daisy-chain-250

0.250" input wires -
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/wiring-power/wires/pre-crimped-250-quick-disconnect-wires/403_16-wire-rainbow-packtm-with-250-quick-connector

with some zipties you can make it look fairly nice instead of a rat's nest of wires.

+1 on using zipties (or velcro) every 4"-6"to keep your wiring neat.   


Scott

[irishpump]

Thank you very much! I checked every button and stick. They're all .187. So if I went the route of purchasing the prefab harnesses, because of there being 28 buttons and 4 joysticks, and I searched, it seems 30 connections for the daisy ground, won't cover it. If going that route, do I need to purchase 2 harnesses. 1 30 and one smaller harness? Do these still connect to one another or is there an adapter that links two daisy chains together? Is it better to buy one harness and simple add the additional I create on my own for the remaining connections?

This is great guys. Thank you so much.

[PL1]

28 buttons + 4 joysticks = 28+16 switches = 44 switches

I'd get three 16-packs of input wires and two 30-position daisy-chains since there will be some unused QDs on the chain when you jump between players and from player controls to admin buttons.

As long as you plan the route for your daisy-chain, there should be enough reach to do P1/P3 controls/admin with one and P2/P4 controls/admin with the other.

Mount your IPac on the underside of the CP between P1 and P2.


Scott