Test Control Panel Design

[yrrkoon]

Next step is to fill those exterior pocket holes somehow. Whats the best way to do that and end up with a decent painted finish result?

Is there a reason you did them on the exterior instead of interior ?? Seems it would have been easier to do them on the interior in the first place rather than have mess with filling etc. after doing them on the exterior side !

The way those boards were cut you would need a pretty snub-nosed drill to get those pocket screws in.  I suspect that is the reason.

I did them on the inside on my previously butchered cp test boards first thinking i could avoid filling them afterwards and quickly found that they don't hold securely because the screw is orienting outwards towards the edge of the board that you're drilling into. It didn't take much pressure to separate the two boards - the plywood would just splinter apart. By placing them on the outside, the screws drill inwards into the board that you're mating to and are much more secure.

[yrrkoon]

If you like the corner radius guides, you can buy them pretty cheap on Amazon. Places like Woodpecker and Rockler charge a bunch for them.

That's where I got them. $27 on amazon. Clever little devices at have 4 curves depending on how you flip them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081V9QV7D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[yrrkoon]

Any reason not to laminate the entire thing, looks small enough to be able to get the laminate for cheap enough.

Alternatively Bondo will be your friend for the hole filling, There are a few tutorials about if you've never used it before.  (Using the right amount of hardener is key).

Mostly because I wanted some practice sanding and painting. Part of the point of all this is to get some hands on experience trying to do each of these little bits that I might need to do on a larger project. So paint, laminate, t-molding, plexiglass, etc.. all strike me as components i may end up having to work with.

I used to use Bondo on cars actually and was a bit surprised to see folks using it on wood. I guess it works though. Makes sense. I just watched a yt video where the guy tries 6 different methods of filling pocket jig holes and frankly wood filler *looked* easier. No mixing needed. So I dunno.. guess i'll use one or the other.

[yrrkoon]

What do you think of that Dewalt cordless router?

I love the small portability of it and it routed like a champ. I've used a variety of other manufacturer's tools like Makita, Ryobi, Black and Decker and I'm always impressed by Dewalt's clever designs. They often just seem more thoughtful. I admit it's a little awkward to use as i'm used to my brother's Craftsman 1/2 inch shank router but I think it's mostly a minor learning curve issue. His is much bigger/heavier with a plunger which is an addon that i don't have yet. His adjustment to raise/lower the router is also different. I had to figure out and get used to using it.

The biggest problem using the router was realizing a router table would really make this easier. but i'm hesitant to get another item that i need to store when i can make due without one. We'll see if i change my mind down the road..

[wp34]

I did them on the inside on my previously butchered cp test boards first thinking i could avoid filling them afterwards and quickly found that they don't hold securely because the screw is orienting outwards towards the edge of the board that you're drilling into. It didn't take much pressure to separate the two boards - the plywood would just splinter apart. By placing them on the outside, the screws drill inwards into the board that you're mating to and are much more secure.

I wonder if you just didn't get it screwed in all the way?  I've always pocket-screwed from the inside and it holds securely. 

What do you think of that Dewalt cordless router?

I love the small portability of it and it routed like a champ. I've used a variety of other manufacturer's tools like Makita, Ryobi, Black and Decker and I'm always impressed by Dewalt's clever designs. They often just seem more thoughtful. I admit it's a little awkward to use as i'm used to my brother's Craftsman 1/2 inch shank router but I think it's mostly a minor learning curve issue. His is much bigger/heavier with a plunger which is an addon that i don't have yet. His adjustment to raise/lower the router is also different. I had to figure out and get used to using it.

The biggest problem using the router was realizing a router table would really make this easier. but i'm hesitant to get another item that i need to store when i can make due without one. We'll see if i change my mind down the road..

Cool.  I'm a big Dewalt fan as well and that cordless one looks pretty slick.  But I need another hand router like I need a hole in the head...

[yotsuya]

I did them on the inside on my previously butchered cp test boards first thinking i could avoid filling them afterwards and quickly found that they don't hold securely because the screw is orienting outwards towards the edge of the board that you're drilling into. It didn't take much pressure to separate the two boards - the plywood would just splinter apart. By placing them on the outside, the screws drill inwards into the board that you're mating to and are much more secure.

I wonder if you just didn't get it screwed in all the way?  I've always pocket-screwed from the inside and it holds securely. 

What do you think of that Dewalt cordless router?

I love the small portability of it and it routed like a champ. I've used a variety of other manufacturer's tools like Makita, Ryobi, Black and Decker and I'm always impressed by Dewalt's clever designs. They often just seem more thoughtful. I admit it's a little awkward to use as i'm used to my brother's Craftsman 1/2 inch shank router but I think it's mostly a minor learning curve issue. His is much bigger/heavier with a plunger which is an addon that i don't have yet. His adjustment to raise/lower the router is also different. I had to figure out and get used to using it.

The biggest problem using the router was realizing a router table would really make this easier. but i'm hesitant to get another item that i need to store when i can make due without one. We'll see if i change my mind down the road..

Cool.  I'm a big Dewalt fan as well and that cordless one looks pretty slick.  But I need another hand router like I need a hole in the head...

I do my pocket holes from the inside as well and don’t see that issue. Maybe an issue with depth settings?

[yrrkoon]

I do my pocket holes from the inside as well and don’t see that issue. Maybe an issue with depth settings?

Ah interesting. Would've liked to have had them inside instead, just assumed it was poor placement when the boards came apart easier then i'd like. I wonder if it's because i'm using 1/2" plywood and there isn't as much material to bite into? Although the pocket jig has 1/2" setting and screws for them so 

Might be something i just need to practice a bit..

[yotsuya]

Oh well. The box looks good. Reminds me of how I got started. Now look at me!

[yrrkoon]

I mentioned earlier that I'd like to put some kind of see-through bottom cover on the panel. I plan to build a ledge that i can screw it into just inside and below the bottom of the panel. i.e. the glass bottom will be recessed slightly vs the actual bottom. I will also put rubber feet on the bottom for the whole thing to sit on.

Question is, what to use for the see through bottom?
More importantly, how thick should i anticipate it being? I need to decide how far down to build my "ledge" for it to screw into.

thinking i'll just hold it in with 4 screws that i can remove if/when i want to do maintenance. but if there's a bitter idea on how to secure it and make it removable i'm all ears. Haven't done any research on any of this..

[Arroyo]

As far as thickness goes I like to use Tap Plastics “cut to size” area of their website as you can see both the nominal and actual thickness.  If you want it to be clear then your mostly looking at Acrylic or Polycarbonate (sometimes referred to as Plexiglass and Lexan).  Thickness depend on how rigid you want it to be, but seeing as how it’s not structural (I’m guessing) probably doesn’t matter too much.

[yrrkoon]

As far as thickness goes I like to use Tap Plastics “cut to size” area of their website as you can see both the nominal and actual thickness.  If you want it to be clear then your mostly looking at Acrylic or Polycarbonate (sometimes referred to as Plexiglass and Lexan).  Thickness depend on how rigid you want it to be, but seeing as how it’s not structural (I’m guessing) probably doesn’t matter too much.

Thanks Arroyo! I'll give that a try. I wonder if 1/8" is too thin for a 20" x 9" dimension? I might go with 1/4" of the abrasion resistant acrylic stuff and see how that goes.

[Arroyo]

I wonder if 1/8" is too thin for a 20" x 9" dimension? I might go with 1/4" of the abrasion resistant acrylic stuff and see how that goes.

There’s also 3/16” for a number of materials. 1/4” would be plenty, especially if it isn’t load bearing.  Also a quick tip that as the name implies they will cut it to size for you both online and at a store.  Cutting plastics is a messy job(wear a respirator if you are going to do it), so might be nice to have them do it for you. BTW, I use a respirator whenever there’s going to be any material flying in the air.  I didn’t know that early on, so thought I’d mention it.

[yrrkoon]

There’s also 3/16” for a number of materials. 1/4” would be plenty, especially if it isn’t load bearing.  Also a quick tip that as the name implies they will cut it to size for you both online and at a store.  Cutting plastics is a messy job(wear a respirator if you are going to do it), so might be nice to have them do it for you. BTW, I use a respirator whenever there’s going to be any material flying in the air.  I didn’t know that early on, so thought I’d mention it.

Ya i see they even drill holes for me. Heh! So nice. I totally intend on taking advantage of that.

[yrrkoon]

another weekend, some more work done..

sanding/wood filling paint prep work..



the "ledge" that I created to support the piece of 1/4" acrylic that I ordered. I want it to be recessed 1/8" and I had to improvise and build corners that it could screw into after realizing the acrylic's holes needed to be a minimum of 1/2" from the edge.



primer courtesy of a spraypaint can..




black enamel.. I had a heck of a time with these ACE can's of spray paint. *!@#%&!. They were spattering droplets like there was no tomorrow . I would've used my friend's automotive sprayer if this was more then just a test project but as it is i figured I could get decent enough results with a spray can. The exterior surfaces actually look pretty good it's mostly the inside that had the droplets. I might try to sand it a bit.



It's good working on a project like this to see what works and what doesn't. In hindsight I should've gone for a smoother painted look by using a wood filler on all the surfaces I was painting. As it stands my pocket holes look smooth while the rest of the wood looks rough. I could've just made it all smooth for a nicer finish. Also I didn't do a great job on my pocket holes. In some cases the screws are protruding which is something I should've paid more attention to ensuring they were recessed.



All in all i'm happy with the progress and so far it's pretty well what I envisioned. It's a really nice size and weight which is one of the things I was after. I'm glad I went with 1/2" plywood. Next up, my laminate layer on top and my t-molding when it comes. Then I can get to installing controls.

I'm still debating on whether to try to shove a computer inside of it like a NUC so that it's completely self contained or to just have it as a CP that I connect to a computer. I don't have a NUC to use so that'd be a lot more expensive. I do have a spare Pi laying around but I wanted to play with Mame and LED blinky and hyperspin.

[yrrkoon]

so i'm looking at some of the components that i need to put inside this thing and some questions come to mind..

how do folks mount their IPAC ultimate I/O boards to the inside of their CP? Any suggestions on suitable products for that? I found some short wood screws and rubber washers that might do the trick which i purchased from ACE hardware.

for the servostick (joystick), i was planning on simply mounting it underneath per the previous profile drawing i posted in this thread. It looks like the distance between the top plate of the joystick and the bottom of the ball is 1 3/8". By mounting it underneath on my 1/2" plywood + laminate i figure the distance between the top of the CP and the bottom of the ball on the joystick will be more like 1 3/8" - 1/2" or ~7/8". In other words i'm losing about 1/2" of the space between the CP deck and bottom of the ball. Space that presumably my fingers might need as i work the joystick. Does that seem ok? i.e. losing some of the height of the joystick by mounting it underneath?

[Arroyo]

Nice progress, that's a solid looking first attempt. 

how do folks mount their IPAC ultimate I/O boards to the inside of their CP?

Most folks use PCB feet:


You can buy them lots of places but here's one.

]In other words i'm losing about 1/2" of the space between the CP deck and bottom of the ball.

There is a reference for standard stick heights based on the stick being used on SlagCoin.  Look specifically at the section that says "Bulkiness and Mounting Height".  Some sticks were designed with a wood plate in mind, and some were with metal.  Accordingly some were meant to be mounted pretty much at the surface, and some below.  You can route out of the bottom or the top if you are trying to match the recommended height, or you can buy extended shafts to mount it from the bottom if you'd prefer not to route it out.  Keep in mind if you buy extended shafts you are changing the fulcrum point and therefore introducing leverage.  It will feel different, and you will probably want a stiffer spring due to the leverage, unless you like the looser feel.  A LOT of this comes down to personal preference.   

[NuclearWarren]

Hey YRR

You should try out the stick with the resulting length above panel. See how it feels and plays. Also test the stick's throw. You may find that the shaft hits the inside top edge of the hole. The hole may require a chamfer.

You could recess the inside to accommodate the joystick plate; a quarter inch. Im not sure you can get your tool in there though. I use a lam trimmer, and it looks close even for that.

You'd then need to use carriage bolts, or recessed flat head screws, from the top and under your lam. Either of these would take nuts underneath, and might end up being a little more solid than screws into your panel from underneath, especially if you're a gamer who puts is back into it.

I think you're going to want the extra stick length above the panel, but try it out. I wouldn't recommend longer shafts.

NW

[yrrkoon]

awesome thank-you guys. I ordered the PCB feet. Thanks for the link! beats the heck out of my rubber washers and screws 

I looked over slagcoin but it doesn't list the servostik explicitly. Nor does ultimarc's website talk about this question. I vaguely recall it is similar to a Sanwa JLF? which slagcoin mentions is generally mounted with 23-24mm which is darn close to my 7/8" inch. If that's comparable that is. The guy in this video mounted it underneath as well so perhaps mounting underneath is fine.



I emailed ultimarc to see what they say. Just trying to make sure I do whats correct and don't want to change shafts.

[Zeosstud]

Looks like your gonna have a great test control panel to me.. Your so lucky, everything is just easier when your favorite game is not Robotron.. Having to have dual 8 way joysticks that hit those diagonals in a way that feels good is such a pain in the butt.. 

Enjoy!!

Zeosstud

[yrrkoon]

Looks like your gonna have a great test control panel to me.. Your so lucky, everything is just easier when your favorite game is not Robotron.. Having to have dual 8 way joysticks that hit those diagonals in a way that feels good is such a pain in the butt.. 

Thanks  

I miss that game and remember it well.

[Arroyo]

If memory serves Servosticks are JLW’s.

[JRobATL]

A few cuts in I realized it wasn't going well. Making straight cuts with a circular saw freehand is a challenge to say the least. Yeah, I should've used a guide. Needless to say, I butchered the cuts and stopped 3 boards in.. 

Man, that's way straighter than any unguided cut I've made! 

[yrrkoon]

another covid weekend, more progress 

re-sanding the top, cleaning with tack cloth and denatured alcohol, in prep for my piece of laminate..



applying the piece of laminate..



cut holes in laminate.. messed up the spinner one a bit because it was difficult to center with it being so close to the edge board. nothing that anyone will see when it's installed though.



trimmed the laminate with the router



headed over to my brothers to use his router table. cut the slot around the edge. that was kinda fun Could be the beer i enjoyed afterwards too. Hammered the blue t-molding in. I'm rather proud of how well it butts up against the edges.



Got home and installed the controls. Looking pretty good! Realized i needed a blue joystick ball so ordered that.





but if course i have a couple of problems.. First, the joystick is currently only held in by 4 x 1/2" wood screws at the bottom. I added some washers so with those and the thickness of the joystick plate they're not going in a full 1/2". But I'm wondering if this is secure enough..? I'm tempted to use the other 4 slots that i seen to add another 4 screws. Thoughts?

But the real problem is my trackball. I can't get one of the bolts in. The other 3 are solid. The alignment of the screw is slightly off. Just enough that i can't get it in. UHG.    So question is, do i remove it, glue in a dowel, redrill, and get that 4th screw in? Or will 3 hold up for such an application? I don't plan to beat on it much frankly so i may be fine. But the OCD part of me that doesn't like leaving things undone makes me want to fix it. I think I answered my own question. I cleverly found some large washers to put between the trackball and the wood to set the height of the trackball such that it was nice and flush given my wood is only 1/2" plywood and you need more like 5/8".

Another problem i realized is that i can't get my spinner weight on as i have the spinner too tight to the frame board. No way can i get the heavier/larger weight on. I do have the smaller one as well which i think i can get on by carving some of the frame board out using my dremel. I'll have to work on that next as well. 

But otherwise it's looking quite good (to my beginner eyes that is).  I got my piece of acrylic and it fits nicely on my "ledge". But i won't be installing any of that until i get the internals sorted out.

[PL1]

but if course i have a couple of problems.. First, the joystick is currently only held in by 4 x 1/2" wood screws at the bottom. I added some washers so with those and the thickness of the joystick plate they're not going in a full 1/2". But I'm wondering if this is secure enough..? I'm tempted to use the other 4 slots that i seen to add another 4 screws. Thoughts?

The problem with using wood screws in MDF is, to paraphrase Danny Vermin in Johnny Dangerously, that you can tighten them once.  Once!   

If you try to remove and reinstall the screws, the MDF will pulp and strip.   

Use threaded inserts if you want to keep the top of the control panel smooth or use carriage bolts if you don't mind the heads showing.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/FAQ#Hardware

Four ways to approach this:

1. Turn the joystick 90 degrees and drill new holes for the inserts.
- Easiest way, assuming you have room.

2. Install threaded inserts for the four currently unused slots on the mounting plate.
- Another easy way, assuming the new slots are far enough away from the old holes.

3. Fill the current screw holes with wood filler or Bondo, let it cure fully, sand it down, drill a clean hole, and install the inserts.

4. If none of those methods work for you, you might be able to use a variation on the "Under mount (support blocks)" mounting method in the FAQ.
- Forget routing a pocket and the support blocks, just use two bars like this.




Scott
EDIT: Just realized that you're using plywood, but threaded inserts are still recommended.   

[Mike A]

I believe there are roughly 10,569,832,649.5 posts of mine telling people not to use MDF.

[bperkins01]

That's a plywood top - no? 
It's 3/4"

Just use 3/4" screws and you will be fine..  the thickness of the plate and the washer will keep it from poking through..

[Mike A]

Maybe I should have looked at the pictures instead or reading the comment.

Screws in plywood will hold just fine.

Of course carriage bolts all the way through are the best and most arcade accurate.

[yrrkoon]

That's a plywood top - no? 
It's 3/4"

Just use 3/4" screws and you will be fine..  the thickness of the plate and the washer will keep it from poking through..

1/2" plywood. Thus, the 1/2" screws.

[Arroyo]

1/2" plywood. Thus, the 1/2" screws.

Careful.  When you get that close in length, it can poke out the other side.  Or it can push the wood you didn’t drill out cause you were scared to drill through.  I’ve done it more than once.

Edit: looking good by the way.  That’s a really good first attempt.

[yrrkoon]

Thanks all

Anyone have a good idea on how to get one of these inserts out of the wood? I'm worried that trying to pry it out is going to cause more damage then good. Perhaps i should leave it and only 3 bolts holding the trackball on.

[yrrkoon]

only one photo today.. I wired up the innards yesterday and added the small spinner weight once dremelling some room for it to fit against the rear board. Hopefully I've got all the connections right. I was basically following maverick's arcade videos on youtube. One thing I realized is that I need to rethink how i'm going to connect this to my PC. I have a USB port on order that i plan to put on the backside similar to what Arroyo did on his. That should serve as the USB connection. I didn't realize until now that I also need to run a connection to the power 5V power connector and connecting it to an HDD connector isn't ideal. Somehow i need a wall-plug power supply for this. And more importantly, wire it so that there is a port exposed on the rear of the panel such that once i close it up i can still connect it to an outlet.

Anyone know of a good arrangement for that? somehow connect the ipac board to some kind of port on the rear of the CP such that i can simply plug a wall plug in when i want to use it?

I also need to figure out how to connect the servostick's small board's USB port to the PC. perhaps i need a tiny USB hub inside the CP connecting the ipac to the servostick board and to the port that'll go into the rear. Anyone know of a nice super tiny USB hub or similar?

hmm i just realized i haven't connected the 6 buttons to the IPAC. doh! Off to do that too..

[Drnick]

If I was doing it I would use something like one of the following.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-power-sockets/0448370/
Or
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-power-sockets/7051531/

[yrrkoon]

If I was doing it I would use something like one of the following.

That looks promising. How do i connect the backside of those to a micro USB on the ultimate ipac though?

[PL1]

If I was doing it I would use something like one of the following.

That looks promising. How do i connect the backside of those to a micro USB on the ultimate ipac though?

5v LED power doesn't go through the micro USB, it goes to the barrel connector top/center of the board.



You can either hack a molex extender/splitter (preferred) or hack the barrel-to-molex cable that came with the board.




Scott

[yrrkoon]

5v LED power doesn't go through the micro USB, it goes to the barrel connector top/center of the board.

You can either hack a molex extender/splitter (preferred) or hack the barrel-to-molex cable that came with the board.

That's right. For some reason I didn't think of hacking the cable that came with it. Awesome thank-you! I have some parts to order!

[yrrkoon]

Hey Arroyo what drill bit did you use for this guy? I notice it's 22mm. Did you use 22mm or something slightly larger?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_dTg2dOS

[Arroyo]

Yeah good question.  The metric/imperial thing is always an issue.  I picked up this cheap but effective Forstner metric set:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K4HL9OE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YThSEb3MC6KS0

Unfortunately, looks like it’s not available at the moment, but really any metric set will do.  I’d go cheap cause you aren’t likely to use it a lot.

If you don’t match the size exactly it will have gaps, which depending on your level of OCD may be tolerable (mines stupid high).

[yrrkoon]

If I was doing it I would use something like one of the following.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-power-sockets/0448370/
Or
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-power-sockets/7051531/

So I got one of these sockets. And found the following drawing to help me figure out how big a hole to drill and how to connect it, but I'm still not sure how to connect it. The socket itself has 3 terminals while the wire that i'm hacking that'll run from the board to this socket only has 2. I figure the center pin is probably one of the ones that i need to connect to. But the other two i'm not so sure on as i'm not sure what the difference is between a sleeve shunt and a shunt. But if i'm looking at the schematic it appears as though they're bridged anyways so it doesn't matter? i.e. basically connect one wire to the center pin, and the other wire to either of the other terminals?

The other question I have is with the wire itself. There are two. Which wire to which terminal? One wire has white dashes on it, the other does not. Since it's DC, I assume it matters that i connect this correctly. But i'm not sure which wire to which terminal.. 

http://www.switchcraft.com/Drawings/L712AS_L722AS_CD.pdf

[yrrkoon]

I finally got some of the parts I needed and worked on my connectivity pieces a bit.

I needed a small USB hub to connect the servostick USB port and the IPAC board to the port i was installing on the back of the CP. Found this small one on amazon which seems like it'll work nicely..



I realized that the AC adapter has an indicator right on the back of it showing what is + and what is - on the plug coming off of it. Perfect! I figured I just needed to map this out when wiring the internals. With a little testing with my multimeter to see what wire is connected to what, I soldered it up.





Then I turned to drilling the holes on the back of the CP. I quickly realized the wood was too thick for both my plugs and i'd need to cut a larger hole to recess them a bit. Something I would've liked to have done on the inside of the CP but given there was no room to fit a drill in there, I decided to do it on the outside instead. It doesn't look as nice but in the end it got the job done. With a little black enamel fingernail paint I touched up the mistakes and installed everything.




and here is the internals wired up. You can see the blue USB cables (from amazon) running from the IPAC and servostick to the little USB hub which i tucked inside with some double sided tape. Then the wiring from there to the ports. There wasn't a lot of room so i let my cable lengths large dictate where the ports ended up since i was trying to keep the insides of the box neat.



I then hooked it all up to my PC and ran MAME and it sort of works . I got to play digdug  . By sort of, the joystick works as does the various buttons, but when i loaded up tempest to try the spinner it wasn't doing anything (maybe i need to map something? seems like it was using the joystick instead). I also haven't tried the trackball but it does move my mouse pointer around albeit in the wrong directions (up and down move it right and left and visa versa. is that normal?).

Lastly the servostick switching between 4way and 8way doesn't work. When i try to click the button to switch it, I get runtime -9 errors . Anyone know what that's about? I can post a screenshot if that's helpful.

next up once i make sure the spinner, trackball, and servostick switching all work, i'll put the plexiglass bottom on it and feet for one last photo session. Then i'm thinking i'll play with launchbox, LED blinky, and get some more ROM's.

[yrrkoon]

still struggling to get the trackball and spinner working.

it seems when i go into a game in mame like centipede, hit tab to set the track x analog to the trackball, it doesn't populate when i move the trackball. It's like mame doesn't want to pay attention to analog devices at all or something. Same with the spinner. For example in this the thread below when i select "Track X Analog" and move the trackball, it just stays blank. despite the fact that from the windows desktop moving the trackball moves the mouse pointer.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=155308.0

still struggling to get the 4/8 way servostick to switch. not sure whats going on there either.