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Author Topic: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020  (Read 3456 times)

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Vectorfire

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Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« on: January 31, 2020, 07:42:42 am »
I searched and found a post asking this very question, but it's years old and likely no longer relevant in any way.
Despite information binging on the topic for weeks, I still don't feel like I have a full grasp on the scene and was hoping someone could help to clarify the bullet points.
What are the primary differences between the two and what if any are the advantages one may hold over the other?

GroovyArcade is linux, so that eliminates CRT Emudriver. But aside from that, I cant really make anymore distinctions.

Basically asking what each solution offers towards the end of getting a CRT to work with game native resolutions.


Any information you can provide would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks all!


« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 12:50:09 pm by Vectorfire »
Groovy_Mame Rig:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Intel i7-3770K @ 4.50ghz
16gb DDR3
Creative SB0730 X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
Sapphire Dua-X R 280 Radeon: DVI-I-->VGA adapter
Ultimarc Video Amplifier
27" Makvision Tri-Mode Monitor

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Re: GroovyMAME vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 11:25:29 am »
I'll preach for my own parish ... for what it's worth ...

I'm (actively) working on a fork of groovyarcade to refresh it, push updates asap, show that what's be done so far is great, shouldn't be abandonned or unmaintained, and have it support newer hardware. See what I've been posting on Collaborative effort fo GroovyArcade.

In my very own opinion, Linux totally surpasses Windows for CRT retro gaming when it comes to GroovyMAME. So much easier to setup, not as restrictive as Windows. I understand people are "scared" of Linux, feel more comfortable with Windows, even more when trouble comes. Hopefully in a few weeks, GroovyArcade will be almost plug and play for MAME, and the CRT configuration will be almost plug and play to, it just requires the user to validate which screen is his arcade monitor, select the type of monitor, then he's good to go and install to a HDD. Reboot, play. You're done.

Regarding your title: GroovyArcade is an OS, GroovyMAME is just the CRT compatible emulator ;)
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

Vectorfire

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Re: GroovyMAME vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 12:44:35 pm »


Regarding your title: GroovyArcade is an OS, GroovyMAME is just the CRT compatible emulator ;)

Excellent point and distinction , I've modified the title to:

Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020

Basically asking what each solution offers towards the end of getting a CRT to work with game native resolutions.

I have a brandy new tri-mode monitor arriving on Monday and all my other parts trickling in over the course of the week. I'ts been a good 10 years since I've done a build here on BYOAC.  I'm eager to see all these new improvements fired into my face via a CRT!

Does GroovyArcade have a dedicated forum or someplace that might elaborate more on what it is and does so folks like me don't miscategorize it in the future.  :angel:

Thanks for the input!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 12:52:38 pm by Vectorfire »
Groovy_Mame Rig:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Intel i7-3770K @ 4.50ghz
16gb DDR3
Creative SB0730 X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
Sapphire Dua-X R 280 Radeon: DVI-I-->VGA adapter
Ultimarc Video Amplifier
27" Makvision Tri-Mode Monitor

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 05:40:33 pm »
There is the original GroovyArcade thread pinned here, and the link I gave you concerning my work. Nothing more ! I'll go spread the holy words abroad once I consider my work is sturdy stable
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

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Re: GroovyMAME vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2020, 06:09:11 am »
Regarding your title: GroovyArcade is an OS, GroovyMAME is just the CRT compatible emulator ;)

More accurately, GroovyArcade is an OS for GroovyMAME ;)

Quote
There is the original GroovyArcade thread pinned here, and the link I gave you concerning my work. Nothing more !

I can't believe I'm reading this  ::) This whole subforum is the result of 10 years worth of support. The world didn't start with github  :lol Anyway I agree that problably most of the topics, and even more lately, are only about Windows, because that's the majority of users.


Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2020, 11:11:41 am »
The huge number of [great] Windows games (both, old and new) which benefit from 15-khz hardware (not to mention the WIN-only emulators) makes of any other OS a big no-no for anyone in the know, I'll always say.

psakhis

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 02:10:30 pm »
The huge number of [great] Windows games (both, old and new) which benefit from 15-khz hardware (not to mention the WIN-only emulators) makes of any other OS a big no-no for anyone in the know, I'll always say.
+1  :cheers:

Good pixel art games..or Windows arcades based systems (Taito Nesica, Taito TypeX...). I don't know if Linux have better emulators but i'm happy with groovymame in W7x64, mednafen (emu4crt fork) or other standalone emulators with full speed (redream, dolphin, etc.)



keilmillerjr

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2020, 02:28:34 pm »
 Soon, GroovyArcade will be the way to go. Quick, free (linux), and easy to set up with crt via gasetup. Running a unix system means using utilities and compiling is easy. 2020 will be the year for GroovyArcade. Thanks calamity, substring and doozer.

donluca

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 02:57:10 pm »
2020 will be the year for GroovyArcade.

Quoted for posterity.

Linux users know what I'm talking about and are probably grinning bitterly.
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 03:21:38 pm »

Quoted for posterity.

Linux users know what I'm talking about and are probably grinning bitterly.
I don't, but I'd be glad to raise you an eyebrow and think "not bad"  ;)
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 03:35:58 pm »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

keilmillerjr

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 07:28:08 pm »
2020 will be the year for GroovyArcade.

Quoted for posterity.

Linux users know what I'm talking about and are probably grinning bitterly.

Is there something I am missing because I use mac primarily and linux secondary? :dunno I will be replacing my iMac soon and be using Linux full time.

Calamity

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2020, 02:58:04 am »
Is there something I am missing because I use mac primarily and linux secondary? :dunno I will be replacing my iMac soon and be using Linux full time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3038d4/when_was_the_first_year_of_the_linux_desktop/

"The year of the Linux Desktop" is a famous internet meme. You sounded like you were rephrasing it. That's all  ;)

Only difference is, this time, we're going to do it  :cheers:
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 03:01:08 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2020, 05:29:04 am »
Let's be humble ... Having GroovyMAME working w/o any effort is just what I aim with GroovyArcade. And it's heading in the right direction. Of course Windows has more emulators, people are used to solve windows problems, easier to find resources on the net blablabla ... Yeah, Linux can't beat that. But on the other side, Linux is much more versatile, and can be tweaked nd patched so that it can be made to fit our needs.

In terms of hardware compatibility, ease of installation, manual configuration steps required, I'm pretty sure GroovyArcade will soon astonish a few poeple :)
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

donluca

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 08:11:18 am »
Only difference is, this time, we're going to do it  :cheers:

" Last Edit: Today at 03:01:08 am by Calamity "

I see what you did there, too bad we can't see previous revisions  ;D

Jokes aside, I'm in the same boat as keilmillerjr.
I've been trying Linux every single year and all possible distros because I'm getting really annoyed of getting ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the ass by Apple, but truth is that I still don't feel comfortable with any Linux distro as much as I am with macOS.

Eventually, the time will come for me to finally switch over to Linux. Meanwhile I've been trying also different stuff: HaikuOS, ReactOS, OpenIndiana/illumos, BSD variants... so far, if I had to choose one I'd definitely go with a BSD based distro because I've become way too much accustomed to some quirks typical of macOS. Too bad that hardware support is so bad... but then, speaking of hardware, you're really rolling the dice with Linux in every scenario.

If I could buy a "vertically integrated" hardware where hardware and Linux are made with tight integration I'd be all over it.
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

robbo43

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2020, 03:41:15 pm »
@keilmillerjr, have you done any input lag testing on a GroovyArcade setup?

Cheers

Rob

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2020, 03:45:59 am »
I'm personally in the Linux-loving camp, been using it as my daily desktop for over a decade now. I started because I was too broke for Windows and continued because I just got used to it and liked it a lot. And recently Linux has really started to take off for gaming, especially with Valve's Proton initiative, pouring money into the WINE project and making Linux gaming better than ever. Hardware support is getting really mature too, with most manufacturers now actually offering drivers, and open source drivers improving nicely.

Emulation for Linux is also very robust, with the only emulator I'm aware of missing being Model 2, and possibly Nesica, though that's less of an emu and more of a compatibility/cracking tool.

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2020, 03:53:33 am »
...

If I could buy a "vertically integrated" hardware where hardware and Linux are made with tight integration I'd be all over it.

Last time I checked, this is an actual thing that there are companies doing. Also, if you are willing to use a distro that packages binary blobs, you can get Linux with really great driver support that's virtually plug-and-play, more so than Windows 10 in my experience. My last install of Linux Mint 18.2 was extremely simple and all my hardware was supported right out of the box. I just had to check a little box saying I agree to Nvidia TOS for the driver and the OS even installed all that for me too. It was great.

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2020, 07:32:38 am »
Model2 runs fine in mame. Here is even a video reporting groovymame runnin model2

GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2020, 09:07:57 am »
Last time I checked, this is an actual thing that there are companies doing. Also, if you are willing to use a distro that packages binary blobs, you can get Linux with really great driver support that's virtually plug-and-play, more so than Windows 10 in my experience. My last install of Linux Mint 18.2 was extremely simple and all my hardware was supported right out of the box. I just had to check a little box saying I agree to Nvidia TOS for the driver and the OS even installed all that for me too. It was great.

Thanks for reporting! Do you have any names/links where I can look at some examples?
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

arfink

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2020, 02:25:11 pm »
Dell, System76, and Purism come to mind. There's also this handy list I googled: https://itsfoss.com/get-linux-laptops/

However, in my experience, virtually any computer that's newer than 10 years old is going to work just about out of the box. The only trick might be getting around UEFI although that's not a requirement depending on which distro you pick. The only devices I've had problems with in the last year or so have been cheap WiFi printers (which are notorious even on Windows) and really old dial up modems.  :P

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2020, 02:53:26 pm »
Thanks, I'll definitely go through that list and see how things are shaping up.

When my Mac Pro dies, unless something miraculous has happened in Apple land, I'll definitely switch to Linux and call it a day.
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2020, 02:29:13 pm »
There's no reason why a person can't run both as virtual machines or with two PCs.

I find it increasingly difficult to run one PC for all emulators and PC games. I use crt emu / groovy mame on a tri-sync crt. I also like to use Teknoparrot and some of the newer 480p+ emulators as well as PC games. One requires the use of an older Amd gpu and a CRT. The rest requires a more powerful PC and an HD display to run properly. Doing it right means two PCs.

I'd be prepared to ditch Windows for groovymame and everything CGA and EGA and run Linux. I'd then use a higher spec Windows machine for everything else.


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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2020, 09:24:37 am »
Not sure I agree that GroovyArcade is the way to go for the main reason being Retroarch and SwitchRes which requires emudriver.  I really hope the standalone driver sees continued support and development, we are due for a new version. :)

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2020, 02:12:05 am »
There is no CRTemudriver in Linux because linux can natively handle any modeline without any specific driver or trick.

Regarding Retroarch, its switchres implementation is very specific but doesn't require anything particular on the OS side, just some default libs (which anyway must be installed with the X display server).

As if today, the only trick is to patch the kernel to boot in 15kHz. But this can be totally circumvented with EDID (software or hardware EDID).
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2020, 08:18:12 am »
How does Wine work regarding running native Windows emulators on Linux, is it good enough or not worth bothering at all?

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2020, 12:30:51 pm »
How does Wine work regarding running native Windows emulators on Linux, is it good enough or not worth bothering at all?

MAME has great compatibility with arcade as well as many consoles. Try MAME first.

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2020, 12:47:48 pm »
How does Wine work regarding running native Windows emulators on Linux, is it good enough or not worth bothering at all?

I wish I had enough time in a day to give you a proper answer to this question ... I suggest you read how team performs on Linux with Proton (Valve's patched Wine). As of today, Wine runs great on Linux, but it's hard to give you an exhaustive review based on my experience. It's still a little tricky to configure sometimes. So is it worth the hassle ? I can't tell.
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2020, 04:00:04 pm »
I currently have windows 10 displaying on my 480 CRT TV using emudriver on my Radeon 5040 in a not ancient Gigabyte LGA1150 but want to nuke it and go with linux/ GroovyArcade.  I figured I'd add to this thread as it seems to be the same idea.

I'm looking to make the jump to Linux but am pretty much a noob. The install off USB link in the live CD thread is showing an error:  https://code.google.com/archive/p/groovyarcade/wikis/USB_installation.wiki

I know I'm going to have to do some work and learn a bunch and need some guidance.  If left to my own devices, I'd install Ubuntu and muddle through it manually.  I'm not a pro but also not afraid of the CLI is there is a better way to do it.

I'd love tips on getting GroovyArcade installed.  Booting directly to retroFE on a tate cab is my end goal.

Thanks!

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2020, 04:35:28 pm »
I currently have windows 10 displaying on my 480 CRT TV using emudriver on my Radeon 5040 in a not ancient Gigabyte LGA1150 but want to nuke it and go with linux/ GroovyArcade.  I figured I'd add to this thread as it seems to be the same idea.

I'm looking to make the jump to Linux but am pretty much a noob. The install off USB link in the live CD thread is showing an error:  https://code.google.com/archive/p/groovyarcade/wikis/USB_installation.wiki

I know I'm going to have to do some work and learn a bunch and need some guidance.  If left to my own devices, I'd install Ubuntu and muddle through it manually.  I'm not a pro but also not afraid of the CLI is there is a better way to do it.

I'd love tips on getting GroovyArcade installed.  Booting directly to retroFE on a tate cab is my end goal.

Thanks!

to put things in a simple way : there is the "old" legacy GroovyArcade which works, but is not updated. It's almost 1 year old, groovymame must be updated manually, old kernel etc ...

And there is the fork I'm working on. Which is "almost" the same, but daily updated, last groovymame and kernel. Check my topic. It's still beta, may not be suitable for pure newcomers yet, but already works pretty good for a groovymame only use.
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

donluca

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2021, 08:47:49 am »
2020 will be the year for GroovyArcade.

Quoted for posterity.

Linux users know what I'm talking about and are probably grinning bitterly.

I almost forgot about this.
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2021, 09:13:16 am »
I also read that it's time to move to linux since windows is becoming more and more complicated to maintain. Need a quote ? ;)
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

donluca

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2021, 03:10:09 pm »
I also read that it's time to move to linux since windows is becoming more and more complicated to maintain. Need a quote ? ;)

No need, if you looked a few post higher there would be mine suggesting this. :D
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2021, 05:35:50 pm »
I'm glad to count you among future users  :cheers:
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2021, 06:59:47 pm »
You can count me as a future user too. My cabinet hardware is getting pretty old now and I think linux is going to be the best path long term for newer hardware. I wish we could solve the extra 1ms of delay when compared to windows though.

donluca

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2021, 08:49:05 am »
I'm glad to count you among future users  :cheers:

I'm not sure how much I'll be using Groovymame in the future.

I almost got all the PCBs I wanted and now that MiSTer is a thing... I don't know if it will have a place in my home.

But I'll always follow the project with great interest, that's for sure, and eventually help out where I can.
On a scale of fakeness, from more genuine to more fake, we'd have:

1.- Plastic plants (cf. Fake Plastic Trees)
2.- Inflatable dolls
3.- Arcade cabinets with LCD monitors

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2021, 10:03:42 am »
mister is a totally unfair competition ... Great for consoles, has limits on arcade though. But what a genius project though, just awesome
GroovyMAME / GroovyArcade discord: https://discord.gg/YtQ6pJh
GroovyArcade doc: https://gitlab.com/groovyarcade/support/-/wikis/home

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2021, 10:47:54 am »
The underlying OS, video driver and emulator software is foreign language when you try to convince the Mrs why the arcade machine should stay in the family room.

The game launcher has to be as impressive as the games themselves.  That's why I'm still running GroovyMAME under win7x64 with HyperSpin and EmuMovies attract videos.  If one day something as eye catchy comes out for Linux, I'll consider switching.

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Re: Windows w/ CRT Emudriver vs GroovyArcade in 2020
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2021, 11:22:21 am »
mister is a totally unfair competition ... Great for consoles, has limits on arcade though. But what a genius project though, just awesome

Yeah. It's become my primary gaming device for anything it can run. I did finally get my cab up and running using GroovyArcade following the death of its ArcadeVGA card, so I am thankful for the project.