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Author Topic: State of Vector, where we at?  (Read 1348 times)

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tommyinajar

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State of Vector, where we at?
« on: September 27, 2019, 02:25:36 pm »
Nutshell version-
 I'm getting a Starwars yoke and Some original Wicos for Black Widow.

  What is the best way reasonably, to duplicate vector graphics?

 15 years ago it was a CRT with sharpness and brightness maxed out or somesuchsh*t. Any new vector monitors, or video cards, vector emulators or what is the current best options? Thanks!

Arroyo

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2019, 03:14:30 pm »
IMO it stinks.  There are some interesting developments I've read about on KLOV for getting multiple games onto an FPGA board and driving Vector monitors, that is really interesting to me.  But once you've played a game on a real Vector everything else (LCD, raster CRT), looks lame.

Mike A

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2019, 03:20:33 pm »
Yeah. Its funny the reactions I get to my Asteroids Deluxe. People really love the visual impact of that game. Even the color vectors don't really compare. My Tempest gets treated like just another game, but I always get comments about asteroids. 

opt2not

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2019, 05:31:22 pm »
Some folks here have got some decent results using a CRT and some bloom filters to emulate Vectors. But it's not the same thing.  You don't get that brightness "glow" falloff you do with a real Vector Monitor. 

There have been some developments in converting regular raster CRT's into Vector monitors, with a newly developed chassis driver board, and re-winding the tube yoke.  But IMO that's an expensive and time invested task to take on.

Another option, if you have an actual Vector monitor, is to try to acquire a Zektor ZVG board and run VectorMame.  There are a handful of youtube videos showing this off.  The problem is the ZVG boards are rare and expensive. They pop up from time to time on the KLOV forum marketplace, but are usually snatched up quick.

All in all, there hasn't been that much progress on Vector game support. Unless money and time is no object to you, you might want to look into the CRT filters and running on a standard CRT.

tommyinajar

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2019, 12:24:36 pm »
 That's not what I was hoping for...

 I'd think with the tech available today, SOMEBODY- would have found a way to emulate, build, repurpose something to copy 1980's technology.

I would like to think that a 19-inch NEW Vector monitor at say- $299 would sell out.



 try to acquire a Zektor ZVG board and run VectorMame.  There are a handful of youtube videos showing this off.  The problem is the ZVG boards are rare and expensive. They pop up from time to time on the KLOV forum marketplace, but are usually snatched up quick.


YOWZERSER!!!!


Yeah. Its funny the reactions I get to my Asteroids Deluxe. People really love the visual impact of that game. Even the color vectors don't really compare. My Tempest gets treated like just another game, but I always get comments about asteroids. 


 Definitely cool, I put it right below Dragon's lair as one of the best looking (IE Jealous)

  I think that 99% has to do with the funky backdrop  :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 12:35:33 pm by tommyinajar »

leapinlew

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 01:20:10 pm »
I'm running Star Wars using a CRT - it's ok. Definitely not the same experience as a vector. My tempest was using a LCD. Between the two, I much prefer the LCD monitor for vector games, but both fall short of the real deal.

markiej

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2019, 07:23:56 pm »
I'm running Star Wars using a CRT - it's ok. Definitely not the same experience as a vector. My tempest was using a LCD. Between the two, I much prefer the LCD monitor for vector games, but both fall short of the real deal.

MAME64's vector settings love pixels.  on a 4K screen, where you can throw 1620x2160 (vertical) or 2880x2160 (horizontal), you can get very eye-pleasing results - I don't have a tempest machine lying around to compare, but probably doesn't compare all that well.  I haven't got the settings exactly where I want them just yet, but close (some bloom, some trails):


doesn't do it justice when not in motion with that crazy jaws beat.  ALso you don't see those little echos, it's a blur - this is what print screen grabbed.

Mr. Peabody

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2019, 05:23:42 pm »
Echoing lew, LCDs/LEDs are the best general rendering of vector graphics with even HLSL (minus the backlighting of LCDs...., and minus the breakage of at least some vector games in screen transition with HLSL enabled). See image below, a basic snap.


I don't know from where this 'given technology nowadays' comes.....

sroberts

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 10:08:23 pm »
Vector graphics has been a thorn for me since I first started with MAME in the 90s.  I'm preparing for the 4th incarnation of my game cabinet, and would really like to get Asteroids working at a minimum.  Battlezone would be my ultimate goal but I'd have to expand controls.

What is a suitable, easily available setup for vector graphics - a 4K LED or LCD monitor, 64 bit mame running on Windows?  Any particular graphics card?   Ideally I'd prefer Linux but I never had success with MAME and OpenGL drivers.

Arroyo

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2020, 11:46:13 pm »
Vector graphics has been a thorn for me since I first started with MAME in the 90s.  I'm preparing for the 4th incarnation of my game cabinet, and would really like to get Asteroids working at a minimum.  Battlezone would be my ultimate goal but I'd have to expand controls.

What is a suitable, easily available setup for vector graphics - a 4K LED or LCD monitor, 64 bit mame running on Windows?  Any particular graphics card?   Ideally I'd prefer Linux but I never had success with MAME and OpenGL drivers.

How into it are you?  I've been getting pretty deep and the recent developments by some talented people is downright amazing.  You can now:

1.) Build your own vector monitor: (reproduction Amplifone deflector board and HV cage) with a standard 90 degree CRT tube (read TV). https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=439426
2.) Own FPGA reproduction of original Vector PCB's (cinematronics/Taito/Midway/Atari) through efforts of folks on KLOV. https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=438283 AND https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=430077
3.) Lastly there are efforts to create a USB DVG (USB Pluggable Digital Vector Generator) that will allow you to send Vector based graphics from your MAME PC...AND there is an effort to create the same thing but for the MiSTer project.   https://www.facebook.com/groups/Vectrex.XY.and.Vector.monitors.The.Technical.Side/?fref=nf  (May need to get accepted to the group first)

The last point will allow you to play Vector games on a vector display with a MAME PC rig.  The last will allow you to play the MiSTer FPGA games through a vector display.

All that is to say that the state of Vector games couldn't be more exciting.  A little patience and effort and you could have a very close to original reproduction in your house.

sroberts

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 09:26:07 am »
Arroyo, thanks for the links.  I'm not into it enough to buy an oscilloscope (mine broke years ago), which after scanning the 42 pages of "Build your own vector monitor" I gather is essential.  Not willing to rejoin facebook either.  So put me down as a lightweight, I'd likely be satisfied with markiej's or Mr. Peabody's setups.

Arroyo

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 07:33:17 pm »
Iím not into it enough to buy an oscilloscope (mine broke years ago), which after scanning the 42 pages of "Build your own vector monitor" I gather is essential.  Not willing to rejoin facebook either.

Iím not planning on buying an oscilloscope.  Just using a vector game board to do convergence, linearity, etc.  the USB-DVG will also be the equivalent of a pattern generator for vectors so that will be handy I suppose.  But yeah no oscilloscope for me (at least for this project )

KenToad

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 10:24:25 am »
I've played with Mame settings and never seemed to get it to change the look of my vector games. Does it only work via hlsl?

dmckean

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Re: State of Vector, where we at?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2020, 02:54:16 pm »
I've played with Mame settings and never seemed to get it to change the look of my vector games. Does it only work via hlsl?

Yeah, you need HLSL enabled.