Chase Altered Beast Controls to Emulator Issues

[MastrChase]

   
Hi all!! I've searched around and tinkered my head off but have not been able to get my arcade controls to register on my emulating laptop. I'm running a Jamma board. I've tried a few emulators to see if the issue is my emus but no luck. I want to keep everything ORIGINAL and use adapters to run my emu. The goal is to keep it all as original as possible in case I want to run a crt and pcb later on. See pics. Thanks all!!

[PL1]

have not been able to get my arcade controls to register on my emulating laptop.

There are at least three wiring problems on your panel.

3rd pic, left blue button the daisy-chain ground looks OK, but the signal wire appears to be broken.
- It might be that loose orange wire slightly above and to the left of the gray panel.

3rd pic, right blue and white buttons have the daisy-chain ground connected, but don't have the signal wire connected.
- There's one disconnected wire up by the hinge.
- There appears to be another disconnected wire (orange/white) between the right joystick and the right white button.

To keep wires from breaking or pulling out again, you might need to adjust the harness so there's a little more slack when you open the control panel.   


Scott

[PL1]

Altered Beast was not a JAMMA PCB.
- Same number of edge connector pins, different pinout.

https://www.arcade-museum.com/pinouts-game/6873.html

The PCB in pic 2 is definitely not an original Altered Beast PCB.
- It might be an X-in-1 board set to boot to Altered Beast.   
- The wiring on X-in-1 boards is not standard JAMMA pinout. (look around pin 25 IIRC)


Scott

[MastrChase]

Altered Beast was not a JAMMA PCB.
- Same number of edge connector pins, different pinout.

https://www.arcade-museum.com/pinouts-game/6873.html

The PCB in pic 2 is definitely not an original Altered Beast PCB.
- It might be an X-in-1 board set to boot to Altered Beast.   
- The wiring on X-in-1 boards is not standard JAMMA pinout. (look around pin 25 IIRC)


Scott

There is no PCB board. The board in the pic is an Amazon Jamma-USB converter board.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K517WSC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[MastrChase]

have not been able to get my arcade controls to register on my emulating laptop.

There are at least three wiring problems on your panel.

3rd pic, left blue button the daisy-chain ground looks OK, but the signal wire appears to be broken.
- It might be that loose orange wire slightly above and to the left of the gray panel.

3rd pic, right blue and white buttons have the daisy-chain ground connected, but don't have the signal wire connected.
- There's one disconnected wire up by the hinge.
- There appears to be another disconnected wire (orange/white) between the right joystick and the right white button.

To keep wires from breaking or pulling out again, you might need to adjust the harness so there's a little more slack when you open the control panel.   


Scott

Do you think the loose wires stop all the controls from working??

[PL1]

There is no PCB board. The board in the pic is an Amazon Jamma-USB converter board.

I hope you haven't damaged anything with all of those crossed/wrong connections plugging a JAMMA board into a Sega  System 16 harness.   

Same number of edge connector pins, VERY different pinout.

Altered Beast pinout
https://www.arcade-museum.com/pinouts-game/6873.html

Altered Beast, Sega
-------------------

              Component Side   Pin #     Solder Side
          -----------------------------------------------
                         GND   1   A     GND
                         GND   2   B     GND
                 +5 Volts DC   3   C     +5 Volts DC
                 +5 Volts DC   4   D     +5 Volts DC
                +12 Volts DC   5   E     +12 Volts DC
                Coin Meter 1   6   F     Coin Meter 2
                               7   H             
          Player 1  Switch A   8   J     Player 2  Switch A
          Player 1  Switch B   9   K     Player 2  Switch B         
          Player 1  Switch C   10  L     Player 2  Switch C
                               11  M             
              Player 1  Down   12  N     Player 2  Down
                Player 1  Up   13  P     Player 2  Up
             Player 1  Right   14  R     Player 2  Right
              Player 1  Left   15  S     Player 2  Left
                               16  T             
                               17  U             
                               18  V             
                               19  W             
             Coin Switch  1    20  X     Player 1  Start Switch
             Coin Switch  2    21  Y     Player 2  Start Switch
                Test Switch    22  Z             
             Service Switch    23  a             
                Speaker (+)    24  b     Speaker (-)
                Monitor Red    25  c     Monitor Green
               Monitor Blue    26  d     Composite Sync
                        GND    27  e     GND
                        GND    28  f     GND

JAMMA pinout
https://www.arcade-museum.com/pinouts-class/JAMMA.html

-> JAMMA Standard Connector <-

Name Of Game: N/A
Notes: Not all games will use all pins, and some kits may have extra connectors
       for more/different controls!  i.e. Street Fighter II and Ikari Warriors.


            Solder Side            |             Parts Side
               GND             | A | 1 |             GND
               GND             | B | 2 |             GND
               +5              | C | 3 |             +5
               +5              | D | 4 |             +5
               -5              | E | 5 |             -5
               +12             | F | 6 |             +12
             - KEY -           | H | 7 |           - KEY -
        Coin Counter # 2       | J | 8 |      Coin Counter # 1
       Lock Out Coil # 2       | K | 9 |     Lock Out Coin # 2
           Speaker (-)         | L | 10|         Speaker (+)
                               | M | 11|
          Video Green          | N | 12|        Video Red
          Video Sync           | P | 13|        Video Blue
         Service Switch        | R | 14|        Video GND
           Tilt Switch         | S | 15|          Test Switch
         Coin Switch # 2       | T | 16|        Coin Switch # 1
           2P  Start           | U | 17|          1P  Start
           2P  Up              | V | 18|          1P  Up
           2P  Down            | W | 19|          1P  Down
           2P  Left            | X | 20|          1P  Left
           2P  Right           | Y | 21|          1P  Right
           2P  Button 1        | Z | 22|          1P  Button 1
           2P  Button 2        | a | 23|          1P  Button 2
           2P  Button 3        | b | 24|          1P  Button 3
                               | c | 25|
                               | d | 26|
               GND             | e | 27|             GND
               GND             | f | 28|             GND

Do you think the loose wires stop all the controls from working??

No, but the different edge connector pinout ABSOLUTELY would.


Scott

[MastrChase]

I hope you haven't damaged anything with all of those crossed/wrong connections plugging a JAMMA board into a Sega  System 16 harness.   

Same number of edge connector pins, VERY different pinout.

Scott

I see, so the Jamma board I bought isn't the right one because the pins are off. Is a correct Jamma board? Or a wire adapter? The pic is something else here I found in the cab, it is an adapter to use with a jamma board?

Thank you for all the help!
- Ari

[PL1]

Congratulations on volunteering your cab to be the guinea pig for this experiment.      

I see, so the Jamma board I bought isn't the right one because the pins are off.

If the cab has an Altered Beast harness, then yes.

Is a correct Jamma board?

JAMMA refers to the pinout, but the standard does allow for a few variations as noted in the pinout above.

This is the first time I've seen the board from Amazon.

It might be a JAMMA pinout or it might be a "CHAMMA" Chinese JAMMA used by many of the X-in-1 boards.

The difference is that CHAMMA uses a few pins around pin 25(?) for button inputs that are often grounds on JAMMA.

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

The pic is something else here I found in the cab, it is an adapter to use with a jamma board?

The latest pic looks like an adapter of some sort.
- Might be JAMMA to Sega System 16.
- Might be Sega System 16 to JAMMA.
- Might be some other combination of pinouts.

First step is to know that you're starting with an unknown -- constantly remind yourself to assume nothing and verify everything.

Second step is to figure out which type of harness you have in the cab.

Find the wires that go from the monitor to the female edge connector.
- If they are on pins 25, c, 26, and d, you probably have a Sega System 16 harness.
- If they are on pins 12, N, 13, and P, you probably have a JAMMA harness.

Once you think you know which harness it is, check the rest of the wires to confirm.
- It may have started life as an Altered Beast then converted to a different cab. Correction: Looks like Altered Beast was only sold as a conversion kit which explains the not-long-enough wiring and the too-close-to-the-joystick buttons.  It's not original so there's no value preserved by maintaining the current configuration.
- It may have started life as a different cab then converted to an Altered Beast.
- It may have gone through numerous changes with a harness change somewhere along the way.

Third step is to check what pinout the adapter in the latest pic changes the harness to.
- Altered Beast harness ==> Altered Beast pinout on the male connector to JAMMA on the female connector.  or
- Altered Beast harness ==> Altered Beast pinout on the male connector to CHAMMA on the female connector.

Hopefully, you have been constantly reminding yourself to assume nothing and verify everything throughout this process so you now know exactly what you're dealing with.   


Scott

[MastrChase]

Congratulations on volunteering your cab to be the guinea pig for this experiment.      

Err... thanks? What am I testing, the Amazon jamma board? Lol.

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

Wait, this is a vital piece of info I've been hunting. What is the gamepad test window?! I haven't seen anyway to test the to see if the controls work other than booting up a game. While I wait for your reply I'm going to Google and search now that I have a term. Thanks!!!

- It may have started life as an Altered Beast then converted to a different cab. Correction: Looks like Altered Beast was only sold as a conversion kit which explains the not-long-enough wiring and the too-close-to-the-joystick buttons.  It's not original so there's no value preserved by maintaining the current configuration.
- It may have started life as a different cab then converted to an Altered Beast.
- It may have gone through numerous changes with a harness change somewhere along the way.

Correct. There was no dedicated Alt Beast cab. I discovered this and decided to keep it as an Altered Beast cab.

Third step is to check what pinout the adapter in the latest pic changes the harness to.
- Altered Beast harness ==> Altered Beast pinout on the male connector to JAMMA on the female connector.  or
- Altered Beast harness ==> Altered Beast pinout on the male connector to CHAMMA on the female connector.

Hopefully, you have been constantly reminding yourself to assume nothing and verify everything throughout this process so you now know exactly what you're dealing with.   


Scott

[MastrChase]

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

Scott

Ok! Hot damn I've got some signs of life. So I've got great interface when I use the adapter (in my last pic) and put the jamma board in backwards. The only issue now is that it's reading the joystick as the buttons and buttons input as the joystick.

Do you think I should swap the connection leads on the controls, rewire the adapter, or find a way to reconfigure the software? I'd think just swapping the physical leads between the controls would be simplest, but I'm not sure how this programming works.

Thank you so very much Scott!!!! I'm going to have to name this cab the PL1 Jr.!

[PL1]

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

Ok! Hot damn I've got some signs of life. So I've got great interface when I use the adapter (in my last pic) and put the jamma board in backwards. The only issue now is that it's reading the joystick as the buttons and buttons input as the joystick.

You put the board in backwards??!!??  STOP.  Power down the cab and disconnect the cab harness from your encoder board NOW.   

Did you miss the part about not connecting to the cab's harness until you trace and know exactly where ALL the wires go and what they do?

I told you the safe way to do this.

Skipping ahead like this can create a safety hazard to you and/or damage your equipment.   

Do you think I should swap the connection leads on the controls, rewire the adapter, or find a way to reconfigure the software? I'd think just swapping the physical leads between the controls would be simplest, but I'm not sure how this programming works.

No programming needed for the board, but there might be some minor configuration in MAME.

For the board, you just need the wires connected to the right pins.

That's another reason why tracing the wires is not optional.

Thank you so very much Scott!!!! I'm going to have to name this cab the PL1 Jr.!

I just hope your wife doesn't name it the widow-maker after your untimely demise.   

Congratulations on volunteering your cab to be the guinea pig for this experiment.      

Err... thanks? What am I testing, the Amazon jamma board? Lol.

Yes.  You're the first person that I know of on BYOAC to buy that encoder board so you're the one who gets to test it and post the results to help the next guy.   

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

Wait, this is a vital piece of info I've been hunting. What is the gamepad test window?! I haven't seen anyway to test the to see if the controls work other than booting up a game.

Go to Windows Control Panel
- Devices and Printers
- Right-click on the icon for your gamepad encoder, "Game Controller Settings" menu item
- Properties button on the popup window


Scott

[MastrChase]

You put the board in backwards??!!??  STOP.  Power down the cab and disconnect the cab harness from your encoder board NOW.   

Did you miss the part about not connecting to the cab's harness until you trace and know exactly where ALL the wires go and what they do?

Technically yes, because the harness adapter/extention doesn't have the notch/solid "tooth" to use as a guide. So I'm not sure which is the right way to insert it. I'm guessing the correct way is the way that got activity when pressing arcade control buttons.

Do you think I should swap the connection leads on the controls, rewire the adapter, or find a way to reconfigure the software? I'd think just swapping the physical leads between the controls would be simplest, but I'm not sure how this programming works.

No programming needed for the board, but there might be some minor configuration in MAME.

For the board, you just need the wires connected to the right pins.

That's another reason why tracing the wires is not optional.

Right but I'm not confident that the controls are connected correctly. You're saying that I should start at the control connectors and trace the wires through the harness to see where they end on the connector clip (where the jamma/pcb slides into)?

Yes.  You're the first person that I know of on BYOAC to buy that encoder board so you're the one who gets to test it and post the results to help the next guy.   

Oh cool! Well then I'll try and be a thorough as possible.

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

How would they appear if they show up? If the numbers are filled in red??

[PL1]

If you connect the board to your laptop, but not to the harness, how many buttons show up in the gamepad properties test window?
- More than 3 per player, it's likely to be CHAMMA since there is no "kick harness" connector on the board for buttons 4-6.

How would they appear if they show up? If the numbers are filled in red??

This shows a gamepad with 13 buttons, none of them pressed.

Each button has a dark red circle with a number in it.
- Press a button, it turns bright red instead of dark red.

Joystick shows up as the crosshairs in the "X Axis / Y Axis" box.
- Press up on the joystick, the crosshairs move to the top of the box.

The number of buttons is set in the gamepad encoder's firmware.
- If you have one "X Axis / Y Axis" box and 3 buttons, it is probably wired as standard JAMMA.
- If you have two "X Axis / Y Axis" boxes and 6 buttons, it is probably wired as standard JAMMA. (two gamepads combined into one)
- If you have one "X Axis / Y Axis" box and 6 buttons, it is probably wired as CHAMMA since the board doesn't have a "kick harness" connector for buttons 4-6.
- If you have two "X Axis / Y Axis" boxes and 12 buttons, it is probably wired as CHAMMA. (two gamepads combined into one)

I'm not sure which is the right way to insert it. I'm guessing the correct way is the way that got activity when pressing arcade control buttons.

Final warning before I do an imitation of Reverend Johnson in Blazing Saddles right after he says, "As your spiritual leader, I implore you to pay heed to this good book and what it has to say!"  STOP GUESSING.   

Once again, the only correct and safe way is to confirm that ALL of the wires are going to the right pins before you hook it up and apply power.

IMO the best way to standardize your wiring and allow you to run a variety of boards is to replace the entire wiring harness with a new JAMMA harness.
- It is a bit of work up front, but it will make things a lot easier to work with in the long run.
- You have to trace the wires anyways, so you might as well convert the wiring to the JAMMA standard while you're at it.
- It would be more work and more confusing to trace wires through the harness and then tracing them through an adapter.
-- That two step approach more than doubles the odds that you'll make a serious mistake.   

- There are lots more JAMMA boards to choose from than Sega System 16 boards so less custom-built adapters are needed.
-- There is a commercially produced JAMMA harness to Altered Beast PCB adapter.  Plug-and-play easy.

- The key in Pin 7 is your friend.  It will keep you from connecting the harness upside down.

- You should seriously consider labeling harness and adapter edge connectors to clearly show "Parts Side" and "Solder Side".  Some harness sellers include these labels on the female edge connector.    Related post here with easy to edit documents for any custom adapters you want to build.

- A JAMMA harness to CHAMMA board adapter will probably only need two traces cut.
-- Pins 27 and e are grounds on JAMMA, but P1B6 and P2B6 on CHAMMA.
-- Pins 25, c, 26, and d may also need to be cut since they are P1B4, P2B4, P1B5, and P2B5 on CHAMMA.


Scott