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Author Topic: Possible Easy Setup for PAL/NTSC SCART TV's with CRT Emu Driver  (Read 10568 times)

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rjpe

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Re: Possible Easy Setup for PAL/NTSC SCART TV's with CRT Emu Driver
« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2013, 07:35:05 pm »
Hi,

Some mame switchres logs, and some pictures as requested. I didn't paused the games on purpose. Look Great!
Uploaded a few more pictures in my blog (http://perdigaos.blogspot.pt/2013/10/crown-tv-dead-back-to-beko-crt-testing.html).

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe pacmania
SwitchRes: [pacmania] (1) vertical (224x288@60.61)->(720x480@60.31)
Average speed: 99.26% (53 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe 1943
SwitchRes: [1943] (1) vertical (224x256@60.00)->(768x512@56.83)
bme01.12d ROM NEEDS REDUMP
bm.7k NOT FOUND (NO GOOD DUMP KNOWN) (tried in 1943 1943)
WARNING: the game might not run correctly.
Average speed: 100.00% (37 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe blktiger
SwitchRes: [blktiger] (1) horizontal (256x224@60.00)->(512x480@60.00)
Average speed: 99.88% (42 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe boblbobl
SwitchRes: [boblbobl] (1) horizontal (256x224@59.19)->(512x480@59.19)
Average speed: 99.96% (52 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe goldnaxe
SwitchRes: [goldnaxe] (1) horizontal (320x224@60.05)->(640x480@59.98)
317-0123a.bin NO GOOD DUMP KNOWN
WARNING: the game might not run correctly.
Average speed: 99.88% (24 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe rthunder
SwitchRes: [rthunder] (1) horizontal (288x224@60.61)->(640x480@59.98)
Average speed: 98.97% (54 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe dkong
SwitchRes: [dkong] (1) vertical (224x256@60.61)->(768x512@56.83)
Average speed: 100.00% (39 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe rtype
SwitchRes: [rtype] (1) horizontal (384x256@55.02)->(768x512@55.02)
Average speed: 99.96% (36 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe ssideki3
SwitchRes: [ssideki3] (1) horizontal (320x224@59.19)->(640x480@59.98)
Average speed: 101.35% (29 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe indytemp
SwitchRes: [indytemp] (1) horizontal (336x240@59.92)->(704x480@59.92)
136032.103.f7 NOT FOUND (NO GOOD DUMP KNOWN) (tried in indytemp atarisy1 indytem
p)
WARNING: the game might not run correctly.
Average speed: 99.97% (81 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe outrun
SwitchRes: [outrun] (1) horizontal (320x224@60.05)->(640x480@59.98)
Average speed: 99.88% (64 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe ddragon
SwitchRes: [ddragon] (1) horizontal (256x240@57.44)->(512x480@57.44)
Average speed: 99.99% (123 seconds)

C:\GroovyMame64>groovymame64_0149.014b.exe boblbobl
SwitchRes: [boblbobl] (1) horizontal (256x224@59.19)->(512x480@59.19)
Average speed: 99.96% (78 seconds)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 08:15:13 pm by rjpe »

rCadeGaming

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Re: Possible Easy Setup for PAL/NTSC SCART TV's with CRT Emu Driver
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2013, 04:48:57 pm »
Hmm... I think I have a better theory than my previous one. 

I still stand by the statement that if you feed 15kHz progressive to a TV that new and you don't see scanlines, that's pretty clear evidence that it's scaling it.  However you may be right in that it's not scaling it to 31kHz.

It's possible that it is a 15kHz TV, but the chassis can only display a 15kHz interlaced picture.  It could have some automation in the sync circuitry whereby if you try to feed it 15kHz progressive, it forces the half-line delay to the vertical sync pulse on every other field, causing it to display as an interlaced picture.  Effectively, it's scaling to twice as many visible lines, but there's not really any upscaling going on, it's just offsetting every other frame by half of a line.

This would explain the lack of scanlines with progressive signals as well as the flickering with progressive signals.  It also makes sense with there not being any deinterlacing hardware on the chassis.  I hadn't thought of it before because I've never seen this on an NTSC TV, but I haven't worked with PAL sets, and it certainly makes sense as a possibility.

Furthermore, the newest pictures also don't look like they've been unevenly scaled to 480p, 576p or some other fixed resolution.  It looks like its exactly line doubled, meaning that with interlaced resolutions it can display them directly as they are intended from GroovyMAME.

rjpe, a good test that would shed some light on this would be to feed it 31kHz and see if it can display it or not.

Calamity

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Re: Possible Easy Setup for PAL/NTSC SCART TV's with CRT Emu Driver
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2013, 06:43:56 pm »
rjpe, thanks for the pictures. Are horizontal scrollings smooth? Any combing artifact?

I totally agree rCadeGaming's theory. The TV must be just line doubling, the most basic way to de-interlacing. But by judging your pictures I'd say it's not applying any digital processing. And yes, line doubling means the chassis works at 31 kHz internally, but I'm 99.9% sure it won't take 31 kHz through the SCART.

Here's some interesting information:
http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/viewtopic.php?pid=10157#p10157

Some TV's allow you to disable the interlace (relative time shift between fields) from a signal: this is interesting because it allows you to convert a previously line-doubled 480i signal into a clean 240p picture.

That information applies to 15 kHz TV's. But you could look for some option in the service menu of your BEKO in case there's something interersting in there, like disabling the line-doubling, etc. (unlikely).

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

rjpe

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Re: Possible Easy Setup for PAL/NTSC SCART TV's with CRT Emu Driver
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2019, 07:24:20 pm »
I just realized that this thread is almost 6 years old... time passes!

After all these years, my old SSD needed to be replaced, and since I needed to reinstall the OS... I decided to try Windows 10 Pro 64 bit.

I also upgraded the GPU from the HD4350 512MB to a AMD Shapire RX560 2GB.
With your latest version of the CRT EmuDriver (crt_emudriver_&_tools_2.0_beta_15_18.5.1_W.10-64), the setup is now great with Super Resolutions! The games never looked so authentic on this TV set!

My best result was choosing the BEKO TV as a NTSC TV, centering and aligning the horizontal geometry with ARCADEOSD, and then aligning the vertical geometry with the TV's service menu, and also ArcadeOSD.

VMMAKER generated 4 modlines, that works great for all the games with GroovyMame64 0.211:
"2560x240_60 15.70KHz 59.94Hz" 48.37 2560 2632 2856 3080 240 244 247 262 -hsync -vsync
"2560x448_60 15.73KHz 59.94Hz" 48.46 2560 2632 2856 3080 448 471 477 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x464_60 15.73KHz 59.94Hz" 48.46 2560 2632 2856 3080 464 479 485 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
"2560x480_60 15.73KHz 59.94Hz" 48.46 2560 2632 2856 3080 480 487 493 525 interlace -hsync -vsync

The resolution: "640x480_60 15.73KHz 59.94Hz" 12.21 640 664 720 776 480 487 493 525 interlace -hsync -vsync
is also installed, but doesn't work due to the dot clock of the GPU (it is what I assume from other threads and docs).

I needed to discontinue Maximus Arcade (doesn't work with super resolutions), HyperSpin Works great!

I also suggest enabling remote desktop and installing AnyDesk for remotely testing the setup - it helped me a lot!

You did a great job with this driver Calamity, Thank you Very Much for your Work and Dedication during all these years, and for helping us keeping these memorable games alive!