!!!!! MAJOR NEWS ALERT!!!!!!!

[Superdude]

!!!! MICROSOFT WINDOWS NT4.0 and 2000 SOURCE CODE IS LEAKED AND IS REAL!!!!!!!

This is really really really bad.  We are in a world of hurt when new windows vunerabilities will be taken advantage of.  Check your newssite now!!!

[Superdude]

http://neowin.net/comments.php?id=17509&category=main

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37648-2004Feb12.html

[Superdude]

More confirmation:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1526390,00.asp

[Pete Harcoff]

If hypothetically hackers find exploits in the code, all that means is more motivation for M$ to tighten their Windows security.  In that sense, I really don't think this is a bad thing.

But if you're scared... run Linux.  

[Xiaou2]

 Actually... its probably a planned thing by M$.   They are trying to get people to buy into thier new "Hardware" level type of protection.  (built into the motherboards)

 Thats a lot more scarry... as your pc could actully scan your files and say...  'delete roms'.   and much worse... : (

[Pete Harcoff]

Actually... its probably a planned thing by M$.

I doubt that.  Such an event can hardly be good for their share prices.

[Ken Layton]

Thank goodness I'm still running Winblows 98.  

[Iori]

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...  No worries what so ever here...  

Sorry for those that have them now.  

[paigeoliver]

Personally I would much rather have seen the COMPLETE source to Windows 98, not leaked, but released freely.

[Lilwolf]

The only thing I can see them worrying about is people can see how bad their source is finally, once and for all!

I can also see that you might be able to find some fixes to things that annoy everyone... but MS never seemed to care.

[hulkster]

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...  No worries what so ever here...  

Sorry for those that have them now.  

except that you have push 8 keys on your keyboard just to right click.

and what kind of games can you play on that?  solitare? minesweeper?  or are they still working on those

[screaming]

  The conspiracy theorists could say that Microsoft leaked it on purpose, but why would they really do that? How would that benefit them in the long run?

   One of the articles mentions something about MS handling the situation thorugh it's Shared Source department, which leads me to believe the part that 'leaked' was already given out to certain organizations anyway.

  Personally, I think it would be cool to run a 'flavor' of MS Windows that had all the things I can't stand about Windows (why in God's Creation can't I get up to the control box with the keyboard?! It worked in Windows 3.1!) taken out, and a couple cool features added (how about the GUI being an option?).  But I also think that if something were leaked and some kind of rogue OS was dereived from that code that MS would all over the authors like flies on you-know-what.

Rock and roll, people. Bring on the bacon. (<-- wtf does that mean?)

/Steve

[screaming]

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...  No worries what so ever here...  

Sorry for those that have them now.  

 Yeah, Apple doesn't have to worry about it too much since thier flagship OS is already derived from freely distributable source.

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...

  Have you ever seen Office Space? I had images going through my head of some arcade nerd walking down the street singing 'Damn it's good to be a Macster'.

  I wonder what an 'arcade nerd' looks like?

/S

[hulkster]

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...  No worries what so ever here...  

Sorry for those that have them now.  

 Yeah, Apple doesn't have to worry about it too much since thier flagship OS is already derived from freely distributable source.

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...

  Have you ever seen Office Space? I had images going through my head of some arcade nerd walking down the street singing 'Damn it's good to be a Macster'.

  I wonder what an 'arcade nerd' looks like?

/S

probably looks like half the people in this forum!

[PacManFan]

I would like to see Microsoft release the source code for Windows as Open Source. I think it could be the best thing they ever do. If they did, hundreds and thousands of programmers all over the world could contribute to make MS OS's faster,better and more stable, like Linux is now. MS would never go for it though, they make too much money from the sales of Windows.

-Steve

[Stingray]

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...  No worries what so ever here...  

Sorry for those that have them now.  

except that you have push 8 keys on your keyboard just to right click.

and what kind of games can you play on that?  solitare? minesweeper?  or are they still working on those

Oh goodie, more Mac slamming from someone who clearly has either never used one or hasn't used one since the '80s.  8 keys for a right click? Even if you don't have a multi button mouse (which, yes are readily available for the Mac) it's only control-click.

Games? There's a whole world of games for the Mac. Everything good that you can get on the PC is ported to Mac as well, we just don't bother to port the crap. Also you may have heard of a thing called MAME? Yes we have that too, along with emulators for all of the console systems.

The only thing we don't have is a whole mess of virii and security holes.  


And I do use Windows every day. I happen to prefer Mac, but I don't feel the need to bash Windows, as I feel that the elegance of the Mac OS speaks for itself.

-S

[Lilwolf]

Trouble is if they made it open source... then people would just pirate it.  Now they have a foothold on piracy free OS..(hehe...hahahaha....heheahahah).

I think it would take them 5 years before they could make the source code in a human readable... And it would probably loose backwards compatiblity...

why?

Because people would look at stupid code... fix it the way that it should be done... Then programs would stop working because MS programmers are good at hacking bad frameworks...  

[hulkster]

Damn it's good to be a Mac user...  No worries what so ever here...  

Sorry for those that have them now.  

except that you have push 8 keys on your keyboard just to right click.

and what kind of games can you play on that?  solitare? minesweeper?  or are they still working on those

Oh goodie, more Mac slamming from someone who clearly has either never used one or hasn't used one since the '80s.  8 keys for a right click? Even if you don't have a multi button mouse (which, yes are readily available for the Mac) it's only control-click.

Games? There's a whole world of games for the Mac. Everything good that you can get on the PC is ported to Mac as well, we just don't bother to port the crap. Also you may have heard of a thing called MAME? Yes we have that too, along with emulators for all of the console systems.

The only thing we don't have is a whole mess of virii and security holes.  


And I do use Windows every day. I happen to prefer Mac, but I don't feel the need to bash Windows, as I feel that the elegance of the Mac OS speaks for itself.

-S

hmmm....seems like its that time of the month for somebody.  chill dude, its called sarcasm.  my friend as a mac with one of those big ass screens and its pretty cool, just a little pricey.  good computers, but i prefer windows.  and yes i know theres games on it and you dont have to hit 8 buttons (guess you didnt pick up on the sarcasm).  windows users are quick to bash mac users, and mac users are quick to show how "superior" their system is for them.  oh well, it was a joke, but i guess you just felt like pms-ing today.  i wont hold it against you

[Stingray]

Wow, first your mouse has more buttons than mine, now I have PMS. I'll bet you were a real wit in middle school. I suppose next you'll tell me that my Mac has cooties.

-S

[Edgedamage]

The world would be less entertaining without mac's they are the most used systems in audio post production.

PS. Im am a windows user.

[hulkster]

Wow, first your mouse has more buttons than mine, now I have PMS. I'll bet you were a real wit in middle school. I suppose next you'll tell me that my Mac has cooties.

-S

okay, this has turned into a mac vs. pc forum, and your getting angry, so this will be my last reply on this topic.  chill out, its cool.

[Stingray]

I'm not getting angry, I'm just posting replies. If this thread was making me angry, I'd stop reading it. Life's too short to get mad over something you read on a hobby forum!  

-S

[dommer]

[sarcasm]Oh sweet, a lively Mac versus PC debate, those are so rare and they usually are so productive and meaningful![/sarcasm]

Who cares in the end, just buy what you like.  Neither side is going to understand the arguments of the other.  It's like abortion.  Both sides successfully prove their points, and neither person changes their opinion because of it.  Time spent arguing PC/Mac would be better spent at a circle jerk.  Just as pointless, but at least a little fun in the end.

Having said that, Macs are good... to poop on. (<-- joke)

[patrickl]

I wonder why people always feel the need to bash Windows. It's by far the best general purpose PC OS available.  Claims like that the only reason people use Windows is because of advertising in fact assume the whole world is populated with dumb sheep.

MacOS has just as many security holes. It's just that there is noone interested in finding these since hardly anyone uses it anyway. Linux sure has a lot more security holes than Windows. The continuous barrage of security advisories for my linux webserver certainly are quite a nuisance (I still regret the day I ever thought Linux would be cheaper then Windows, cause in fact it costs me a fortune to keep it running/secure). I'll bet the people who say Linux has no security holes never bother to check for these fixes (until they end up being cracked).

[Stingray]

MacOS has just as many security holes. It's just that there is noone interested in finding these since hardly anyone uses it anyway.

I will completly agree that compared to the number of PC users, Mac is a small minority, but I don't think that 25 million users qualify as "hardly anyone".

-S

[patrickl]

MacOS has just as many security holes. It's just that there is noone interested in finding these since hardly anyone uses it anyway.

I will completly agree that compared to the number of PC users, Mac is a small minority, but I don't think that 25 million users qualify as "hardly anyone".

-S

25 million users, that doesn't sound right though. Maybe they sold 25 million boxes over time? But yes I was talking relative numbers. A worm on a MAC will probably hardly have an impact, so why bother?

Anyway, we are drifting off topic. I can't imagine what the impact will be of the Windows sources leaking out. I'd guess some good (more compatibility) and some bad (security is sure to be breached more often). I'd sure love to see them

[screaming]

I wonder why people always feel the need to bash Windows. It's by far the best general purpose PC OS available.  Claims like that the only reason people use Windows is because of advertising in fact assume the whole world is populated with dumb sheep.

  Personally, I think Windows has the consumer market and Linux has the server market. OSX, on the other hand, has the flexibility of a BSD, yet the ease of use of a Mac.  You have both the consumer and the server market. That's flexibility. That's general purpose.

MacOS has just as many security holes. It's just that there is noone interested in finding these since hardly anyone uses it anyway. Linux sure has a lot more security holes than Windows. The continuous barrage of security advisories for my linux webserver certainly are quite a nuisance (I still regret the day I ever thought Linux would be cheaper then Windows, cause in fact it costs me a fortune to keep it running/secure).

  Personally, I'd rather have a computer with 10 security holes that are patchable ''zero day" than 1 security hole that takes months to be patched. Just my humble opinion.

I'll bet the people who say Linux has no security holes never bother to check for these fixes (until they end up being cracked).

  True dat, bro. True dat. I'm patching my linux computers way more than I'm downloading Windows updates.. but I feel 100% more confident my linux box isn't going to get hacked than I feel about my windows box. It could be that I've fell for the whole Linux-is-open-source-therefore-is-more-secure propaganda, but I don't think so.

  For reference, I use Win2k on a laptop all day at work and manage many more Win2k clients. I manage 2 RedHat servers in a production Oracle environment and 2 Win2k servers in a production AD environment. At home I share my time between a desktop that runs WinXP, a laptop that runs Gentoo linux, and my MAME computer runs WinXP. Notice I didn't say OSX anywhere in there? Hmm... I think I need a new computer

/Steve

[Stingray]

Anyway, we are drifting off topic.

You're right of course. I'm not sure why I started charging at the anti-Mac windmills this morning. I'll give it a rest.

-S

[bionicbadger]

More job security for me in the IT security field

[fredster]

I think it's these #@! IT guys that are doing all this.  They are the ones who can know the weakness and write code to attack it.

That way we hire them and pay them to protect us from them!

[Zapper]

PC vs Mac I do all of my gaming in Win98 but work in Mac OS X and Mac OS 9. My fear is that PC motherboards will evolve to the point where you can't buy one that supports Win98 anymore. In the Mac world the new models keep dropping support for the older Mac OS's. My current Mac can boot into OS X and no less than OS 9.2.2 (the last version of the old Mac OS). If I had a Mac G5 I'd be stuck with just OS X and a watered down version of OS 9 called "Classic" which is complete doo-doo. I used to be a Mac loyalist but now I consider Apple to be an evil greedy bastard just like Microsoft. Their motto should be "Screw the customer. If it's not broken, it's not making us any money".

[Lilwolf]

I used to have a better one... The other one was !@# funny... (the one with the little quiet mention of photoshop)

http://www.w2knews.com/rd/rd.cfm?id=030721FA-Mac&mid=7475726889937028

[Frostillicus]

Heh check this one out  

[SirPoonga]

MacOS has just as many security holes. It's just that there is noone interested in finding these since hardly anyone uses it anyway.

I will completly agree that compared to the number of PC users, Mac is a small minority, but I don't think that 25 million users qualify as "hardly anyone".

-S

25 million users, that doesn't sound right though. Maybe they sold 25 million boxes over time? But yes I was talking relative numbers. A worm on a MAC will probably hardly have an impact, so why bother?

Anyway, we are drifting off topic. I can't imagine what the impact will be of the Windows sources leaking out. I'd guess some good (more compatibility) and some bad (security is sure to be breached more often). I'd sure love to see them

Sounds right to me, there's billions of people in the world.

[Zapper]

I used to have a better one... The other one was !@# funny... (the one with the little quiet mention of photoshop)

http://www.w2knews.com/rd/rd.cfm?id=030721FA-Mac&mid=7475726889937028

That was Insanely Great

Here's one of my favorites (QuickTime movie). Actually I like the Mac and OS X but I'm in a bad mood because the $%#* thing is in the shop being repaired.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Just to get this in before the thread gets locked, I've installed every version of MacMAME from .29-.66 on my cabinet with a double-click and play.

No messing around...no tweaking....no "why won't this work".

The vector drivers in MacMAME .33 Beta 3 are absolutely beautiful when compared to newer versions on both platforms, as well.

[Howard_Casto]

Thank goodness I'm still running Winblows 98.  

To quote Patrick Notron of the ScreenSavers:

"Even with all of xp's security holes... even with the leaked source, even if it was the full source.  Xp is STILL 1000 times more secure than 98."


People this isn't as big of news as you might think.  According to recent reports the portion of the source leaked is related to m$ accessories, particularly msPaint.  So if a malicious hacker wants to turn your green color swatch purple then watch out!  Otherwise just chill.

Xp's source code is something like 40 gigs in size.... only 650 megs leaked and it's application specific stuff.  

Also regarding the "If you are worried about security then use a mac." Statement:

The reason you see viruses on windows and not mac os is because far more people use windows than a mac. Why write a virus that'll attack 15% of the computing population when you can write one that'll take out the other 85?  

Also generally people break into your computer to steal stuff.  What huge goverment database do you know of that runs on a mac based network?  How about a huge payroll database?  Actually how about any senstive data?  Mac's are used in business mostly for artistic applications which are hard to steal due to watermarks and ect which make them easily identifiable.  

So a mac isn't more secure, it's just far less likely to be targeted.  I would say that they are on about equal ground it's just that xp gets hammered on a daily basis with attacks while macs have plenty of time to fix any holes that might pop up.

[Zero_Hour]

Yep, I think P. Norton summed it up perfectly, although if anyone could manage to put a system level security flaw in a paint program, it would be MS.

And while the Mac is certainly ruling the roost in Graphic Design, & Desktop Video, they are also surprisingly popular in high level scientific applications, that I'm sure some silly hacker would love to delve into. In fact I have a G3 sitting on my desk that was obtained at auction, after Los Alamos National Labs was done with it (no hard drives though  )

Ultimately OS's are much like the boxes they reside on - tools. I can't get all uptight about platform arguments. I use the tool most appropriate for my purpose, which is why I have multiple machines, and OS's at my disposal.

[DarkKobold]

Anyone have a copy of that mac switch add, where stuff pops-up, making fun of the person talking? My fav is the "I am an F-tard"

I can't find it.

[NoOne=NBA=]

The reason you see viruses on windows and not mac os is because far more people use windows than a mac.

I think it's actually a more complicated three-fold problem.

1) It is EASY to create a viruses in Virtual Basic.
THAT is the main reason that viruses seem to target PC's rather than Macs.
If it were EASIER to create viruses for Mac, people would do it anyway.
No VBS support on the Mac equates to no VIRUS support on the Mac.

2) You have a bunch of dumb users that refuse to stop opening the "Check THIS Out" e-mails.
If people would just quit opening them, the number of wild viruses would drop drastically.
Also, there is the fact that alot of people continue to allow VBS apps to run automatically.
Education doesn't seem to be cutting it, maybe Microsoft needs to FORCE VBS apps to require manual launching.

3) Then there is the fact that Microsoft doesn't WANT to plug alot of the "holes" until they are found by a 3rd party, and (more importantly) REPORTED to the public at large.
Take, for instance, the header overrun "features" that Microsoft built into OE and Office.
I think someone at Microsoft got a HUGE bonus for creating code that would allow Microsoft to send a "Hey, you really should update this" e-mail to users that would overrun the buffer, and allow them to send data from your computer, should they choose to implement it.

When the hole was found, Microsoft's reaction was "it'll never be USED, that's too complicated".
It wasn't until the hole was reported to the PUBLIC that Microsoft finally decided that it needed to release a patch.
It took them about two weeks...IIRC...to finally release the patch for what I still hold was another of their "features".


Until all three of these issues are addressed, we will never be free of rampant viruses.
Then again, even the techs at Earthlink are clueless, so I guess it will go on.

When the SoBig virus was going around, my e-mail address at work was unlucky enough to be picked at random by someone else's computer as the "reply-to" address.
We were getting 20 e-mails a day from "undeliverable", or "You sent me a virus--please fix it".
I called Earthlink with the IP of the people sending them in our name, to see if they could track them down for me, and the tech asked "How do you know it's not coming from YOUR computer?".

I asked if it ran on a Mac, and he said "NO".
I told him I HAD a Mac, therefore it COULDN'T be me.
He asked how I KNEW that it couldn't be me, since I wasn't running Anti-Virus software.
I asked him again if it ran on a Mac, and he said "NO".
I even pointed out that the IP in the header wasn't ours.
He still asked "How did I know it wasn't me".
At that point, I called him a retard, and hung up before my blood pressure got too high.

I had to go through that same scenario with three separate people at Earthlink before I finally gave up, and tracked the guy's IP myself.
With tech support like that, it's no wonder that we can't get control of these things.